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Honda Civic vs Toyota Corolla vs Mazda3
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Comments
The Accord is definately larger and smoother - the M3 handles better and is more tossable, but the Accord handles well too. The Mazda also has more options. I was also looking at the EX-L Accord for $21,200 (including destination).
BTW. The 4 cyl Accord is a tad quicker than the M3, so no need to go for the V-6.
The civic was a bit better for me at a meager 19k.
I know that the gti can get pricey, but since i would opt for a four door with a limited amount of options like the dsg and maybe some floor mats, i'd be in the 23-24500 price range, which yes is about the same as an ex-l, but the gti is a bit faster, plus i don't have to worry about passing myself everytime i drive anywhere. (i like the accord a lot, but this is its only drawback imho.)
The Sandman
The inside looks and feels awesome for the 3 GT. The other models I have to agree, they suck.
Do prefer the seats in the Civic with my spine problem. But the 3's seats are almost as good actually.
The Sandman
my buddy had to pay this extra fee every time he got his 3's oil changed. just fyi
There is nothing tricky about changing the oil in a Mazda3.
I know it simplifies things for them, but every other major manufacturer offers some choices. Mazda, Nissan and Toyota offer at least two interior colors with most exterior colors. An exception to that would be the Mazda3, which is somewhat limited in the same respect. Until 2007, the s model's interior was much like the Ford Model T- you can have it in any color as long as the color is black! They have a choice between black and gray on some exterior colors for '07.
I think the Mazda3 interior is great in most respects. I wouldn't mind a little less red lighting (reminds me of 90's Pontiacs gaudy red backlighting). Otherwise, I think it looks as good or better than any of its competitors. The seats are more comfortable on long drives than any of my previous Hondas, the switchgear feels solid, no rattles, great gauges and the leather wrapped steering wheel and shifter knob are icing on the cake.
In retrospect, I'm glad I got the Mazda3. I might have went with the Civic because Hondas are all I had owned and had great experiences with them. The two main reasons I didn't get the Civic were- 1) I hated the ivory interior but didn't like any of the exterior colors that came with the gray interior and 2) the 15-inch wheels on the EX look dorky compared to the 17's on the Mazda3. The EX deserves at least a 16-inch.
I've had the Mazda for over 18 months and 35k miles and have only been back to the dealership once for a minor issue with the clock. It feels as solid as it did the day I bought it.
I do miss one thing about the Hondas- the fuel economy! It is without a doubt the Mazda's worst feature (and the only negative, in my opinion). Even my Accord V6 automatic got better MPG than my Mazda3 s manual. The Accord averaged about 27mpg and the Mazda is at 23.5mpg to date.
i used to hate the color combos on hondas; but you can now get black on black without it being an si, but it has to be the coupe. the black is now available with the grey interior; mine had the ivory one, which they have thankfully done away with. They finally have allowed the grey with the royal blue pearl.
don't know where the gripes from the wheels comes from; the civic DOES come with 16's, not 15's, on ex trim. They actually fill the wheel wells amazingly well, no real upleasant gaps of any kind, and certainly not wimpy!
As my buddy eldaino has already mentioned, the EX has 16" wheels. Even the plain "LX" model has 16" wheels.
One thing I noticed riding in my friend's '04 Mazda 3s (in bright blue it is a good looking car!) was the excessive tire noise/rumble. I felt like I could predict what the tread pattern looked like by the end of our 60 mile ride. In that regard, having "mere" 16 inch wheels is a bonus. They should also be cheaper to replace than 17 inchers - important to remember when the Civic's mission has typically been "economy" first.
we'll have to wait for that k20 powered se trim level civic forever i guess!
but yes, economy is the mission, and 16 inch wheels (very nice alloy ones at that, i prefered them to the 16's on my rabbit now) allow for a better ride, and less money when it comes time to replace.
In the Civic's defense, the Si's 17-inchers are both a great looking design and look fantastic on the car. In all fairness, the 16-inch wheels on the Mazda3 i Touring and s Sport Sedans are dinky looking in relation to the proportions of the car's sides, too. The 17-inch on the s Touring and Grand Touring Sedan and on all 5-doors totally change the look of the car, in my opinion.
As far as noise, yes the Mazda3 isn't as quiet as the Civic. The performance-oriented tires are largely to blame. The only negative in choosing a 5-door over the sedan is that the 5-doors open cargo area makes the noise slightly worse. The sedan's trunk absorbs some of it.
All Mazda3s with 17-inch wheels are delivered with a high performance tire that impacts ride quality, makes more noise and wear sooner than normal tires. Their traction is seriously reduced in rain also, something I found out the hard way. In return for all that, you get a subcompact that handles like an RX-8. A cloverleaf on-ramp near my home has a 20mph limit and I managed to hold 60mph all the way thru it when my car was new.
The OEM tires were worn out at 31k miles. I decided to go with a slightly less aggressive all-season Michelin and they're much quieter and the ride is smoother also. The handling isn't scalpel-sharp anymore, but it still handles better than any vehicle I've owned before.
Which model Michelin's did you get?
I've always wondered why the base Mazda3's 2.0L puts out 150hp (75hp per litre), but the 2.3L is only 160hp (69.5hp per litre)? It seems like it should have at least 173hp just to match the 2.0L output.
I can't discern much difference in the 2.0L I've driven compared to my 2.3L manual. The sole reason I went with the 2.3L is because I wanted the 5-door which does not offer the 2.0L.
In all honesty, had the Si Sedan been available when I was in the market, it most likely would be in my driveway now instead of the Mazda3. Then again, if the Mazdaspeed3 had been available at that point, it might be out there.....what might have been......
do you mean in porportion to the wheel size? because the wheel to body gap in the civic ex is just as tight if not tighter than that of the mazda 3 with 17's and looks much better than the 3 with the 16's. ( i know a family who has a 3 2.3 with 16's and i remember when i parked my civic next to theirs, the lines with regards to the wheel gaps was so much better looking on my car, it didn't look awkward at all.)
All Mazda3s with 17-inch wheels are delivered with a high performance tire that impacts ride quality, makes more noise and wear sooner than normal tires
Really? the last 3 2.3 hatch that i was looking at at a dealer had goodyear eagle rs-a's; i've never seen ANY 2.3 with actual summer performance tires (which fits your description) aside from the mazda speed 3. Heck you can even find Gti's with all seasons, and those cars have more sporting intentions than base hatchback 3's.
the civics interior isn't exaclty known to be quiet; and in fact one of its bad points. (when i had mine, it was worlds better than the 01 i had traded in, but i hadn't really done any other comparisons. My rabbit on the other hand is like a museum compared to either!) But tires can transmit road noise greatly without ever being performance tires.
In fact, the good year eagle rs-a's are commonly seen on civic lx's and on ex's! They are a performance (not high or very high) all-season tire, but nothing more.
While i was hoping for at least 155 hp for the ex ( i still think that the ex should have been the 'se' trim that does not exist, with the k20 and standard 17's and sportier interior) but it would have had to been with a different engine and i doubt honda would have offered all the extra goodies on the 140hp lx to compensate for those who wanted better fuel economy than a civic with a more powerful engine, but still wanted the extras the ex offers.
The ex is not simply cosmetic feature upgrades; it has 4 wheel disc brakes, something alone that made some people opt for the ex.
me? i think they should have been standard across the line, made 2 versions of the ex (ex and ex-s (for the bigger engine version, but able to keep a 140hp ex as well)) and made the dx more of a value with regards to content instead of making it as bare bones as it is. (imagine getting a dx priced civic with the content of an lx plus 4 wheel disc breaks. honda would have had a hit within a hit!)
At first, tires were slipping now and then when it rains or snows. But as time goes by and drove my 3 more and more, I got used to driving it in the rain or snow with a lot less tire slippage. Once I hit more than 25K on this vehicle, I'll replace my OEM tires with either the Avon M550 A/S or the Michelin Pilot Exalto's. Tirerack users are giving good reviews on these 2 tires with the Michelin's are lot more expensive and wears faster. Anyone have experiences with either tire?
I just flat hate the looks of the Honda Civic. Too much windshield for me. However, I've never driven one. So, I really can't comment much on the latest-generation Civics! LOL
The 8th generation Toyota Corollas (1998-2001) are, to me, the most elegantly designed sedans ever made. They're positively handsome and classy. Which is to say that when they redesigned the current generation (2002-present), I wasn't thrilled with the rounded tail lights, the taller stance, the ugly wheels/wheel covers. However, these newer Corollas are supposedly bigger than mine. And even though I'm less than impressed with the styling, there are other things to consider. A Corolla interior does come in beige; you don't have to have a dark interior. (Although, if they ever bring back the blue interiors I shall leap with joy!) Besides, if they're anything like their older predecessors, they last and last. Mine went eight years before things started going wrong with it. It got the H beaten out of it in a hail storm and kept on going. You can't buy that kind of service from a car. So from the sheer reliability standpoint, there's a reason Corolla is the best selling sedan ever. If you have a daughter who's working the night shift at Taco Bell, or going to night school, and is driving home on dark country roads, put her in a Corolla. It'll take care of her. I would buy another one without trepidation.
So, I guess there are things to like, and things to wish had been done better, about all three cars!
We almost have the same observations between the Corolla and the 3 except that I loved and preferred the 3, specifically the 5 dr, and I'm now a proud owner of one! :shades:
But I've had no real complaints on the service I've gotten from her, just turn the key and go (well, when the starter's working, LOL) with no excessive cranking and it's still running original plugs, and it'll be ten years old in November, according to the sticker on the door. I know so many people who have a car not even six months and they have to take it back to the shop. I'm thankful for this car, I'm the only owner it's had, even though it had a few miles on it when I got it it's never let me down, especially back when I was still paying for it! LOL
I wanted to ask you, since you did end up with a Mazda3, did you get used to the red/orange lighting? I know that unless you do your test driving at night, nobody really takes that into account, so I'm glad that I got a chance to keep the Mazda over the weekend and really live with it. My Toyota has a nice green lighting, and I know Hyundai Elantra has a beautiful blue lighting, so I wondered what you thought of the dash lighting, that is, if you even drive much at night at all for it to even bother you. I saw one that's almost the same color of my Corolla (Sanddrift metallic - a neutral taupe color) and it looks a WHOLE lot better than the purple, especially with the lighter interior.
I also thought the gear shift was odd, There was no D-2-L, but some sort of M. It was February when I had the car and I remember thinking "thank God it's not snowing, what would I do for low gear?!" So tell me also - what DO you do for low gear in the Mazda3??
When you slide the gearshift into the "M" slot, you'll notice you can tip the lever fore an aft. In this mode, the transmission operates as a manual transmission would. A display in the instrument cluster (near the speedo) indicates the gear you are in (1,2,3,4, or 5). For example, from a stop, you'd be in one. Accelerate as you would normally, but YOU decide when the automatic changes gears, by tipping the lever. This is called a "Sport Automatic" in Mazda terms. You'll hear it by many names from other automakers... Acura has this in all of its automatic-equipped cars; Mercedes-Benz, Toyota Camry V6, BMW, etc... all use this technology.
"Howstuffworks.com" has an article explaining this as well.
Allows manual gear changes, when desired, in an automatic transmission. Functions as a traditional automatic transmission when left in Drive, but includes a slot in which the shift lever can be moved to change gears manually. Sometimes, buttons for shifting manually through the gears are located on the steering wheel. This affords some of the advantages of a manual transmission, such as greater control of engine speed for better throttle response, but eliminates the need for a clutch pedal.
I hope this clears things up. Sport-Shift/Manumatic/Automanual (all names that this may go by) is generally a desired option when people NEED automatics, but it lacks the true feel of a manual transmission.
Regarding the red/orange lights, I for one prefer either the Corolla's or the Civic. Even though I didn't like the red/orange lighting of the 3, it didn't really bother me much as what I really wanted with the 3 was its sporty performance and handling. I've never owned a sporty car before and the 3 is the first one I've ever owned. :shades:
You're probably asking why did I owned a Corolla if I was looking for a "sporty" car, it's very simple. At that time I bought the Corolla, I want a very reliable "appliance". And the Corolla, the 8th generation that is, is one. And even the current model is also one. Did I mention I also had the same color as you had? LE Sandrift Metallic, bought from Capitol Toyota in San Jose, CA in 2000.
Regarding the gear shift, I guess thegraduate pretty much answered the question. I own a Manual as I had previously mentioned so I don't have that problem. I test drove an automatic 3 once and although I've heard about "Sportmatics", I've never expected the 3 to have it. So, when I test drove it, the salesman alerted me to change gears because I was expecting the car to change gears for me. I've actually unknowningly put the car into manual mode.
-Car drives very smoothly at any speed
-Have not taken it over 80 yet but north of 75 the engine noise increases significantly but nothing overbearing.
-Shifting this car is a pleasure, no vibration at all and easy to find gears
-At this price, I'm not sure there is anything that can beat the handling, highway entrance ramps are fun again. Civic Si probably can do better but at a significant cost
-Very pleased with the mileage, about 75/25 highway/city driving. 4 fill-ups so far, 1) 29.0 MPG 2) 32.0 3) 33.4 4) 28.2--this tank included a lot of stop and go rush hour traffic into downtown Boston three days in a row.
Car is very quiet over bumps, no rattles at all, very Honda-like in that regard. I wasn't sure Mazda could match that but I guess so. Next door neighbor has 56,000 miles on the same car ('05 model) and says he has no rattles and no major problems.
This is a car that should please anyone looking for a fun ride that is economical and reliable.
I have been looking for scratches that some say come very easily but I am not experiencing that. The all black interior does show a lot of smudge marks but they remove easily with a wet rag.
Great little car!
I understand the feeling of wanting something more, though. You still want reliable, you just want...more! The Mazda3 is undeniably cute, at least the sedan is, I wish that back end raised up some so you could store more stuff in it because the hatchbacks are flat ugly. Not Scion ugly, but less attractive. The Corolla LE has toys like moon roof and JBL and that great beige dash with the wood trim. And then there are the Hyundai siblings, Elantra and Sonata, who are both way better looking than they used to be. There are a lot of contenders for the buck out there these days, and I'm glad to see it! Makes test driving fun!
You know at the time I was shopping for the car I have now, I was really looking for a Saturn wagon, but the wouldn't come down off the price of them. $15K for a wagon back in 1998 was high in my book! Then I went to another dealer and saw the Toyota program car...the rest is history!
I think it's silly. Are people that afraid of the third pedal?! It's not the shifting that's important, at least the way I understand it. You get a manual because you don't want a car weighed down by I-don't-know-how-many pounds of fluid and oil so you can get better gas mileage and still get somewhere! To say nothing of the convenience of not having to take time off work to have the car serviced for $150. What good is it to be able to shift and yet you've still got a heavy transmission underneath you?! Mind you, thegraduate, I'm not addressing these questions to you, I'm just kind of virtually shaking my head at all of it!
Anyway, thanks for explaining what the "M" was. I didn't have the car long enough to play with it. I stuck to the gears I was familiar with!
I ruled out the Corolla afterb taking it for a test drive and finding that I couldnt wait to get out of the car. In my opinion the Corolla is way out of its league and too far outdated to make its reliability and Mileage a positive. I'm sure the new model will be loads better but right now I cant imagine anyone choosing it over a Civic 3, or even a Cobalt. To each his own I guess.
Be careful about the Yaris, take it on the highway before deciding. Even CR, which usually praises all that is Toyota rated the Yaris very low. If you like to drive, I dont think you'll like the Yaris.
I completely understand, my friend. I think "out loud" on the forums all the time (lots of people do it). The people that seem to like the manumatic feature don't use it for what the marketing guys from the carmakers say (who tend to say it is the best of both worlds, "the control of a manual without the hassle of a clutch, and the automatic is there for traffic crawling, etc...")
The norm seems to be that people like how easy it is to use the "M" shift gate for engine braking; locking into 3rd gear on a hill, etc.
Always ask a question here; if one person can't help, it is very likely someone else CAN.
Best,
Thegrad
The average CR reader has a household income of about $140k which is probably a *bit* above the those who generally drive an economy car by necessity. Those people are generally driving larger, more powerful vehicles that against which any subcompact will seem pretty cheap.
When I take one of the fleet cars out for a week - especially the high end models - I am always surprised that I can still drive my usual car and be happy with it.
I am planing to buy a 2007 Honda Civic LE. I was wondering if any one has bought the Honda Civic in the past week or so, so I can get the price information that they paid. I am not very good in negotiating the price. Thanks in advance.
The Sandman
When's the new Corolla due out?
Reason I'm leaning towards Civic, compared to:
Corolla - want some extras like mp3; lame reasons: new one is coming out soon; sister owns one
Mazda3 - I'm biased and feel a bit uncomfortable being in a car that Ford has a large hand in; more $ than Civic LX and Corolla
I like the fact that Civic has 1) ABS, and 2) extra airbags, 3) AUX in and MP3 cd player
Any advice anyone can share :-)?
Agreed. They are all excellent choices for different buyers. The Mazda3 has a long history of reliability and quality in spite of Mazda's long affiliation with Ford. For an independent view, see Consumer Reports which rates them all highly.
Being ignorant will make you sorry. In this case, it will. The Mazda3 is top rated, and is built in Japan by Mazda. You should atleast drive it. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
The Mazda3 i Touring is same price as a Honda Civic LX.
I like the fact that Civic has 1) ABS, and 2) extra airbags, 3) AUX in and MP3 cd player
The Mazda3 also has all of the following. 99% of all Mazda3 i models are ordered with the ABS/SAB/SAC package, and comes with a standard AUX input. You can upgrade to the MP3 player.
Like I said, if you don't like the Mazda3, simply scratch it off your list. Only you can determine what vehicle is best for you. The Corolla, Civic, and Mazda3 are all excellent choices.
If you prefer ride comfort, go with the Corolla.
If you prefer handling but don't want to compromise economy, get the Civic.
If you prefer the sportiest sedan you can get for $20k or less, and economy is less important, get the 3.
Cons to these cars?
Corolla: Boring, 6 year old design, numb/slow steering, weak torque.
Civic: Road noise, rear-seat room (both legroom and headroom), styling is love it/hate it.
3: Tire noise/vibration in the cabin, fuel economy, black interior is TOO dark.
Just a quick little mini-review of these three from me. My dad has a 2007 Civic EX, my ex gf had a 2004 Corolla, and a close friend of mine has a 2004 Mazda3S. That's where my personal experience comes from.