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Economy Sedans (~$16k-$20k)
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Comments
Do you suppose there's a reason why automakers tout the crash test scores of their cars, when the scores are good? Maybe because they know, from their extensive marketing research, that many buyers place high importance on crash safety?
As for now, I can't seriously consider one of the cars in this class that's high on my shopping list, the Elantra, because the IIHS side impact result is unknown. Same problem with the Optima, although it's not technically in this group (although by price it is).
Didn't look at another Subaru because having the transmission blow up big time at 170,000 miles really soured me. I felt that car should have gone easily over 200,000 miles. Also the redesigned Impreza doesn't look to have enough room in the back and gets less mpg than the '97 which usually did about 30 mpg.
I drove a Hyundai Elantra rental car while looking at new cars and it was a really nice car. Very quiet. For some reason the clarity and reach of the headlights really seemed outstanding. Just driving it I would have thought of it as mid-sized.
The Elantra is actually a midsized car, according to the EPA. The Sonata is a full-size!
If you're complaining about a transmission (automatic I assume) "blowing up" at 170,000 miles, then I suggest you start looking at cars with a stick shift. The truth of the matter is that any automatic transmission from any manufacturer in the world will be suspect after that many miles, and as such, requiring it to reach your personal threshold of 200,000 miles will be a crap-shoot at best.
Best Regards,
Shipo
No, the Subaru was manual transmission as all my cars have been. And since my '72 Chevy pickup went 300,000 miles without transmission problems and with me driving all those miles, I don't think it's the way I drive that caused the Impreza to go so soon. It went on a highway, thank goodness in stop and go traffic, and went so badly there were chunks of metal on the road and the drive shaft was also ruined.
The new Elantra is a nicer car in most respects (except that driver's seat) but good luck finding a fully loaded copy anywhere near $13k today. The price of progress I guess.
By the end of next year I plan on turning over my GT to my son for school, and I'll be getting a new car (which will eventually go to my daughter). The Elantra Touring is my top choice within this class right now, pending full crash test results and a test drive. I've always liked the Mazda3i but it's never been tested with side airbags by the IIHS, so crash integrity is an unknown. The new 3i Touring Value Edition available this January looks interesting, however. The Mazda3 will likely be on its last year when I'm ready to buy. I'm looking below and above this class too. The 2009 Fit looks really good (and in fact I have my name on the wait list already), and the Versa plus the 2009 Optima and Sonata (mid-gen refresh) are possibilities also. Would like to keep the price under $16k OTD. That eliminates some good cars like the Civic, Accord, and maybe the 2009 Corolla (although I don't know yet how "good" it will be).
Best Regards,
Shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
The car never leaked anything and it was serviced only days before. Since there was lots of pink fluid all over the road too it wasn't out of fluid. It was running fine right until it went except for a humming noise at high speed that no one else would admit they could hear. "It's got a lot of miles on it. Old cars get noisier. Sounds fine to me."
Civics are the appropriate Honda entry here.
Thanks.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
I didn't intend to imply that all Honda trannys are better than others, but rather that it is possible to have 200k on an auto with no problems whatsoever. I forgot to mention my friend with a '94 Honda, well, we'll just say it has a 2.2L engine. He has 203k on it (it's been wrecked numerous times, but it keeps on ticking!).
I'm just glad to see I woke the forum up!
Simply remembering to service the auto trans fluid/filters and such at the recommended interval will go a very long way to having any auto trans last as long as the engine it's bolted to lasts. And if you routinely stress your auto trans (eg. towing, or lots of mountain driving) look into an aftermarket accessory cooler - it's heat that kills automatics, not mileage/use.
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Maybe you can give us some tips as to how to be selected this time (my having had no success in the mid-sized sedans test drive last winter)?
In my area, the price of gas has eclipsed $4.00/gal. $3.98 on Sunday, and now $4.05 today, these economy cars are looking more and more desirable. My wife is looking for replace here Subi Impreza, and my mind in more on fuel economy. Hers is stuck on AWD. I'm also not a fan of how Subies drive, heavy brakes, heavy steering, loud engine. Cars we added to the list are Honda Civic LX, Mazda3&6, Legacy, Forester. I have asked her to pick out cars she likes, and I filter out the unreliable ones. This is going to be fun!
I am quite content with the 30mpg we are getting from our Legacy wagon. I appreciate how well it handles (much better than my Accord) and its responsiveness. Of course, they don't make it anymore as now the model they offer has some ridiculous "I wanna be an SUV" tire and wheel package that is both heavier and less responsive. Oh well, I've already got mine.
Something in this class of sedans, e.g. Civic, Corolla, Elantra, Mazda3, or in the class below, e.g. Fit, Versa, Yaris, or a hybrid like the Prius is the best route.
I don't know about that, my Accord is getting 30-34 mpg regularly. I think a C car like a Focus/Civic/Mazda3 would be fine as well. If you check out the "whats wrong with these subcompacts," there is a lot of debate over there on the merits of the smaller vehicles.
I'm more for economy, but, since all she has ever driven is AWD Subies, she feels "safe" driving them in winter. Here in CT we get decent winters, however, I have never had an issue driving a FWD car here. I really want a $17,000 30+ mpg new car. But, we will see what happens.
You are right, maybe it is the new rating vs the old but the mileage went down from then to now. Our wagon was just shy of 20k (it is the base model like in the article, a 2.5i stick) with just the stupid auto-dim mirror and the all season floor mats/cargo cover. For our situation, it was just the perfect car at the perfect time, although I do kind of wish we had found a way to step up to the Limited and gotten heated leather seats and the big sun roofs.
I think where I blew it was getting the Accord EX instead of a Civic SI, a MazdaSpeed6, or just about anything with a pulse.
I've always liked small cars and like the idea of driving the smallest car that meets my needs. So the 2009 Fit, for example, is looking pretty good to me. Not everyone's cup of tea, I know, but I love the smart, efficient packaging of the thing. Also pretty darn easy to park just about anywhere. But I could live with a compact also; my top choice there for purchase later this year is the Elantra Touring. The 2009 Rabbit 2-door is looking good too with its standard ESP, but FE isn't that good for a small car.
I think that is a good goal and subscribe somewhat to that as well, the Accord was ~$2500 cheaper than the Civic SI at the time, and can better hold the monster-sized child seat.
So the 2009 Fit, for example, is looking pretty good to me. Not everyone's cup of tea, I know, but I love the smart, efficient packaging of the thing. Also pretty darn easy to park just about anywhere. But I could live with a compact also; my top choice there for purchase later this year is the Elantra Touring. The 2009 Rabbit 2-door is looking good too with its standard ESP, but FE isn't that good for a small car
I can't get passed the styling on the Fit, it just doesn't appeal to me, and the FE doesn't seem good enough to offset the size and cost. I also think I am lucky I live in a place where parking isn't as critical.
I think the Elantra offers a good value. I like the warranty and as long as you are buying it to run into the ground, resale value is much less of an issue. I like the VW because its so fun to drive, but part of the relationship with the car seems to be a relationship with the VW service department, so I don't know if I can handle that.
It's valid here too, comparing compacts and subcompacts. Basically, the subcompacts have very little MPG advantage, despite smaller engines and lower weight. A Fit and an Elantra get the same highway MPG per the EPA, for example.
Ahh, a fellow hatch lover! Those are the main two I'm looking at as well, though I might also consider a Civic if I want to lose the hatch (wish it still had one)...don't like the 1.8 Matrix.
What I'd like to know is what's taking Nissan so long to put VSC on the Versa.
The Rabbit itself is proving to be pretty reliable, at least per the CR members' survey. The Rabbit is now CR's top choice for small hatches. And for 2009 VW is adding 3 years' free maintenance--which isn't all that much really, mostly a few oil changes, but every bit helps. The only major downside for me on the Rabbit is its FE. Since the base 2 door with ESP and AT will cost more than the base Fit or Elantra Touring (or SE), and have higher operating costs because of the lower FE, that will be tough for me to justify. And I much prefer a 4-door (or 5-door) car; the 4-door Rabbit is pretty pricey for this class.
I've had my 2007 Rabbit for almost a year. I've gone to the dealership for all of my work, and the service has always been good. It's actually improved since I purcahsed my car, and the dealer and Volkswagen corporate always contact me after service to ask me if I was satisfied or not.
One thing I do is stick strictly to the maintenance guide provided in my manual, instead of the dealers recommendations.
This means only bringing my car in every 10,000 miles after the 5,000 and 10,000 mile checkup. The dealer recommends every 5,000 miles, but with synthetic oil, it's only necessary to change out ever 10,000 or six months.
My 5,000 and 10,000 mile service were both around $100-$120. I skipped the 15,000 mile service, and brought it in at 20,000 miles for about $330 including an upgraded carwash, and some mat work (my floormat clips were not compatible with myincluded floormats). I was only charged for the clips and not labor for that work, and they were pretty friendly about it, but did not tell me I was going to be charged for the clips up front.
I just check my fluid levels every now and then to make sure I'm not low on anything. I figure they only want my car in more often to get more $$$, and I'm pretty confident that the included owners manual recommendations are just fine, and saving me a few hundred dollars a year.
The '09 warranty still isn't "all inclusive" for the work and it's actually a shorter warranty than the '07 and '08 models which have a 50,000 mile 5 year warranty.
This might be a good thing, it might not. We'll see I guess.
Overall I'm extremely happy with this car. It looks great, it drives great (too smooth for some with the electromechanical steering) It's comfortable, solid and has plenty of room for all my storage with seats that go nearly flat (including the front passanger seat!) there are very few cons in owning this vehicle. One is the fuel economy (compared to Honda Fit, 2006 and earlier Scion XB, and Scion XD) But the '08 has 170hp compared to my 150hp and equivalent MPG. And VW MKV is a huge improvement in fuel economy over MKIV and earlier regular gas VW engines. Expect to get about 24mpg. One other "problem" is the air vents in the car You can't have air going through the top and btotom (foot) vents at the same time. The vents are a bit high, and it takes a while to get the best seat/vent position for driving with the air conditiong on hot summer days. Last but not least, the adjustment knob for the passenter seat is a little bit of a pain you have to rotate a knob to recline, raise the seat. These are all pretty nit-picky complaints in my book, and I hardly feel as if I made a compromise in purchasing this car. As fuel prices go up, I may feel differently, but so far; no regrets, and I feel that it was hardly a trade off. (The only other 3 cars I considered were 2006 Scion XBs which were no longer available new, Honda fit which had an engine that was tooooo small and loud at higher speeds to feel appropriate for such a space efficient car, and the Mazda 3 five door which didn't have great maintenance reputation, and was more expensive out the door for similar features) Besides, a lot of what I see on the road around me in Southern California are big trucks, and suped up luxury cars: I know I'm not getting hit as hard as some.
Anyway, I hope this info helps.
-Abel
It looks like the Rabbit is expensive to service (e.g. $100 for a 5k service, vs. the $25 or so I am used to paying for other cars) so I guess the 3 years of free service is a pretty good deal after all.
If they had their way, they'd be getting small BMW's or the IS250. Funny how they both have expensive tastes in cars and the wife and I have driven small econoboxes since they were small. Guess our frugalness and desire for excellent mileage has not been passed on. But hey, they are 23 & 21 now and like the finer things in life. But once they have to pay all their expenses for these new "toys", I think they'll be happy with our insistence for smaller econoboxs.
The Sandman
How about the Lancer and Rabbit? Also if you wait until fall, the larger-for-2009 Fit will be out. Maybe your girls will think it's cute.
Still, plenty of good candidates to choose from. Luckily, they both have about $16k put away after their college funds for their purchase. Mom, being a CPA, has wisely invested their college funds knowing that this day would come and they'd both need cars for their 1st jobs. We still have a 20 year old son who will be a junior this fall that we'll have to do the same thing with right about the time I retire. Kids!
But it will be fun for me to try out their final picks, as I don't want to influence them that much. I did reserve the right to veto any car which I feel isn't a good fit for whatever reason and they are in agreement since they both know virtually nothing about cars.
The Sandman
(P.S. - The Lancer is nice but the mileage figures are nothing to write home about.)
So, they both will need cars, as we live in Coral Springs, Florida, outside of Ft. Lauderdale and Epcot is in Orlando.
The Sandman
I'm second-guessing my decision to be placed on a waiting list even though I think the Prius is an excellent car and as "green" as you can get. I want to leave as little a carbon foot-print as I can, BUT . . . Any advice?
Plugging a Yaris into the math would be different, as the Yaris gets better FE than the Elantra.
Anyway, I went with the Elantra and have been happy with that decision. But I am keeping my eyes on the 2011 Prius when we get rid of the van in 3 years.
So many feul efficient econocars out there now to choose from. These manufacture's are making a killing with high petrol prices.
Let us know what you decide.
The Sandman
However, while it fits in your price range, your daughters may object to the fact it currently has no aux input jack.
Ya lost me with that comment. I've recently driven both the Astra and the Rabbit, and the $16,000 Bunny completely destroyed the Astra in every objective and subjective measure except fuel economy, and even then the difference isn't all that great. Personally I could be quite happy driving the Rabbit for a couple of years, the Astra not so much.
Best Regards,
Shipo
However, the fuel economy of the Astra has been significantly better than EPA in my own experience (last tank was 36.2 mpg), whereas the Rabbit has been fairly comparable to the EPA numbers under real world conditions, from what I have read in various forums. This was a major selling point for me (I'm an astra owner, can you tell?).
Also, the Fit is in a different class. I test drove one and found it woefully adequate. It's good basic transportation, and gets great fuel economy, but it doesn't border on luxury like the Astra or Rabbit does, nor is it as agile.
Anyway, all the cars you mention are decent cars, and have various pros and cons, which I need not go into. All I am saying is that if one is looking at cars in the $16k-20k range, the Astra deserves some consideration.
Personally, neither would be on my list (I'm scared of VW reliability, and if I wanted a hatch, the Versa offers the best interior room, and at 6'5" that matters a LOT to me!). For $16-$18k, you get a VERY well-equipped hatch with the Versa.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
My own experience with the Fit is that it is a nimble, fun to drive car. It certainly isn't a luxury car, but for 2009 it will have VSC and factory nav available, plus a roomier and more refined interior and more power. It does have some upscale features e.g. paddle-shifting automatic that neither the Rabbit nor Astra offers. Also I don't think the Rabbit or Astra offer factory nav, do they? And of course the Fit has those "magic seats."