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VW Passat TDI vs VW Jetta TDI
pat
Member Posts: 10,421
in Volkswagen
What are your thoughts on choosing between the turbodiesel Passat or Jetta? It seems the Passat will no longer be offered in a TDI model. Since this means the Passat's 2.0 TDI engine will have only been available for one model year, is this of concern in terms of resale, parts and service down the road?
Would you choose a sedan or a wagon - and why?
Let's talk about these things here - help a member who is debating these questions make a decision!
Would you choose a sedan or a wagon - and why?
Let's talk about these things here - help a member who is debating these questions make a decision!
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Comments
The Passat TDI is rated 38 mpg highway (though I am getting 41 with still less than 2000 miles on mine). It is the last model year of the body style that began in 1997, and as you note, the engine was sold for just one year in the USA.
Yet I just chose the Passat TDI over the new Jetta. Price for the two was about the same. I made that choice for 2 reasons:
1) Passat is bigger, hence more crashworthy. Adults can sit in the back seat.
2) Passat does not look like a Corolla.
3) Passat has 134 HP vs 100 HP for the Jetta.
I think the Jetta is a great choice, too, but the Passat worked better for me.
I bought the 2005 wagon TDI and love it. I had 5 adults and drove up North today. It has the same power & handling, as with 2 on board. My passengers were surprised. One of them has a Corolla. He told me with 3 on board, he can't hit 70 MPH up this grade we kicked up to 80 on today. I have not looked at the 2006. I hope they did not screw it up like the Jetta. Looks too much like an Audi to me.
I have noticed that while it still has plenty of power with a full load, it does use more fuel, but that should not be surprising.
In time, as more of the new Passats hit the road, the B5 will begin to look small and dated. But that doesn't much worry me.
However, everything will change with nationwide introduction of low-sulfur Diesel in the US in 2006/7. It has been VW's stated goal to use their experience in powerful, low-fuel consumption Diesels to hit the market at that point, in part competing against hybrids. There are quite a number of VW Diesel engines out there that have been available for years in Europe, but not here. Then there are new ones, like the attractive 170hp 2.0TDI. I just hope VW gets it right this time and makes these engines (and engine choices) available in all models (including wagons and AWD versions) as soon as possible... rather than getting there too late, once more.
I prefer the stick shift because with a diesel, both the mileage and acceleration are much better. However, with the Passat's high torque, you still get decent pickup, and good mileage as well for a mid-size car. Once VW attaches the dual clutch, self-shifting manual transmission to the diesels, that will become the transmission of choice
Location: Anchorage AK:
Drawbacks: We have very high sulfur fuel, as we got a special waiver years back.
Miles: 5400
Passat Choice: We needed the size for my wife’s comfort, as much fuel efficiency as possible and what we do with it (replacing a SUV).
I believe the Passat TDI 2.0 was here for 2 years, though I thought the diesel would continue for the 2006 mid year point when its replaced by the new platform (and no diesel). I am not seeing it so ..Still calling it a 2005 and producing? Unsure.
That said, all the parts for this care are going to come from Germany, and the engine is still made there. As the trany is the same as its been for years (to the best of my knowledge) and the rest of the accoutrements (doors, controls et al) certainly are the parts situation should not be an issue.
Add in that the injection system is extremely simple physically, though technically a real wonder, diagnosis for any problems should not be any issue. Nice to, that if there is a problem with the injection system, its very likely confined to one Unit Injector, and easy to change, relatively inexpensive (and less hesitation to do so by VW I would think).
So, I see not reason to not buy it, if it suits your needs.
In our case, my wife cannot do a manual anymore, ergo we had to have an automatic in any vehicle we own (and lucky to have bought a truck with an automatic when the problem first set in).
As the Passat Wagon came standard with the automatic and diesel in the GL, we felt fortunate to get a package we didn’t have to pay extra for (and we are happy with the GL, saw no need for the extras of the GLS, GL has suited us just fine).
With the torque from that engine making the automatic feasible for wide range of use, we are completely tickled with it. The new Jetta gets the 1.9 with 100 hp and 177 ft lbs. of torque, in a vehicle the same size.
As for mileage,
City:
It’s a bit wild at times in city. On the way to work at 5:30 am, I have seen 43.5 on the trip meter (all time high, though the range is 39-42.5). I can time the lights very well and the speeds are in the 38-43 mph range..
On the other hand, stop and go traffic, we occasionally see 26. Average (measured) has been 31-34. Computer is 1-3 mpg gallon off indicated in town.
Highway:
Its been above the 38 mpg since the start (assuming a longer trip, 20+ miles). After it settled in (above the 1,000 miles mark). Worst was 38 mpg, 3 large people, back fully loaded, and one passenger seat full of briefcases, coats handbags etc.
Best has been 42 mpg, and a recent 220 mile trip with 2 in car and about half loaded in back was 41. We seem to do 41 pretty consistently now. One trip has a serious headwind component, and if it doesn’t balance out over the trip, that has a major affect. We drive 58-60 in the 55 zones, and 68 in the 65 zone (less if just a Sunday drive and we aren’t holding up traffic). Above 70 mph, the wind speed holds it at about 39 mpg. Usually not in that much of a hurry, so keep it under 70.
Trip meter is much more accurate, .3 to 1.5 optimistic.
Overall:
It hits a sweet spot occasionally, and it can be amazing for in town. I expect at some point between now and 15k, it will move up. Something to look forward to, and already exceeds expectation (so much so I am now greedy, disappointed if I don’t get 36 mpg in town!).
Drawback:
Worst has been the smoking issue. I resolved at least the oil in the intake system with the ProVent filter. I didn’t’ want to dump the crank vent fumes overboard. Its against part of my attitude in not polluting) .
We still are getting large clouds, I believe that may be the catalytic cleaning itself when it gets hot. I’ll try the additive and see, and also we join the rest of the US with the low sulphur in 2006.
Cost:
For us its working well. We moved from 2 fuel users, to retiring the one SUV (keeping the pickup) and are putting as many miles as possible on the Passat. That’s cut the fuel bill by 2/3 to 3/4 for us. If you started with a fairly economical car in the first place, you would not be getting that payback. At last 60% of the car payment is saved in fuel, probably more. Diesel is close to unleaded prices if you shop a bit.
Winter.
Frankly it’s a bit low clearance wise for all time use in winter, but we have the pickup to use when needed, so decision will be to stay home if possible, or whoever has to be someplace to take the pickup and roads will need to be clear for the second car use.
Balancing that is the extremely effective anti lock brakes, skid control and handling of the car. Also heated mirrors, excellent windshield wipers, great headlights etc.
We got to play with the traction system on one icy hill just before winter left last year, and it was very impressive (I see no need for 4 wheel drive with that and its low ground clearance, what it has doesn’t get you through, more wheels drive won’t, just have to take pickup or stay home).
Very much looking forward to playing with the ESP (reports are its amazing).
So Far:
We consider ourselves very fortunate to have started looking, been able to test drive both the Jetta and Passat, settle in on the Passat, and then have one come through that met our requirements (GL with the only extra the ESP, which we would have taken without, but wanted as being able to just drive and not worry about skids can save you from a collision).
Also very fortunate that VW made a vehicle like this. Frankly there is nothing like it in the US that meets the economy, size, with the mandatory automatic transmission that the Passat does. My wife just cannot fit into a smaller vehicle. Narrow availability window for this vehicle and fuel prices going through the roof like I anticipated (I had a bad feeling about it and we got it as they went up through $40 a barrel.
It’s a very fun car to drive, just shy of a true Sports Wagon (though I would argue that its at least on the low end of that category). It makes the errand and trips into town enjoyable again.
Also, as I have to make it to work (my wife can usually juggle her work as its mostly at home and some in town), it may mean the difference between a downward economic spiral. Our house choice was dictated by what we could find that we could afford and style needed (ranch type are not common in Alaska), not location, and that means an 11 mile drive for me. I can adjust some of that with bicycling to work, but its spotty in the winter, and if its raining or I am sick, I just can’t do the 11 miles, and still put in my 10 hour days. At lower fuel prices the pickup and SUV worked, though again the SUV was as much what my wife was comfortable in.
Jetta TDI:
The old smaller one has plenty of git up and go with the automatic and 3 people in it. I don’t think the larger new one will. If it suits, s
Thanks
sam from CT.
I saw your post about the passat tdi with the blown transmission - if you do decide to sell, let me know. I guess I might be interested in fixing and driving it myself, and I could certainly give you more than a dealer would as a trade-in (well, most likely anyway)... Thanks, Erik millerik -atsign- yahoo dotcom
anyway, i haven't heard of any trend towards the passat TDI slushbox failures.
But have you replaced the engine oil-chain system with the replacement gear system from VW? That's a $1k or $2k job too and is required on all the USA passat TDIs, as far as I understand.
&&&&&&&
As for the forum subject, Jetta TDI vs Passat TDI... I've owned both, and the Jetta TDI seems prefereable for many reasons.! Also it's somewhat moot since Passat TDI hasn't been offered for 5 years and apparently will not be offered any year soon.
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/b5/oil-pump-failure-passat-tdi.htm
the car started lurching or hesitating at around 40mph, then the check engine light came on, then i had no drive power at all.
i pulled over and there was fluid leaking on the ground.
I had just been at the dealer for a glowplug recall changeout, and am very suspicious. they put it on the rack, pulled off the cover and it looked like it had been leaking for a while. trans was dry and mechanic says its toast!
-Dave
that is quite the cost for a new automatic transmission.
combine that with the $2K oil chain->gear upgrade/repair for those 05 TDIs!
for either diesel or gas-engine, maybe drivers should insist on a standard transmission if they want the best chance to drive >>100k without a major transmission repair ?
Only VW doesn't sell those three things together. You want a stick, no sunroof for you. Seems someone upstairs thinks the reason people buy a stick shift is to save money, ergo why would that same customer buy a luxury item like a sunroof? Ach du friggin' lieber! Could you be more clueless than that?
It fits though with the aforementioned VW purist complaint that in dumbing down for the US market, they're using a Camry template to interpret the US consumer--and writing off all those American customers who paid up to buy a BMW or AUDI with a manual and a sunroof, not to mention Porsche, i.e 2/3 of the rest of their product line, because they actually like to drive a vehicle not just point it down the road.
So, I'm sorry I waited 7 months to buy a Passat and VW wrote me out of the database of potential sales. I had my money in my hand ready to go in and buy. F-'em. I'm going to go buy a BMW just to spite 'em. And I'm serious.
VW couldn't put together a simple package in its new Passat--a stick, sunroof and diesel engine (never mind ask for awd). In effect, they forced me down the product line to a Jetta to pay nearly the same money.
Any consumer will walk away from being forced to take less for what is effectively the same price.
Whatever deal I make elsewhere at least has to make sense within the products offered.
The fact is that VW made the decision to simplify their product offering because it makes economic sense -- they can offer the vehicle at a lower price because they get economies of scale by building only certain packages and combinations. If you don't like it, then don't buy one -- just don't make it out to be some nefarious plot by VW to overcharge you for a Jetta.
In my case, I wish I could get an Opera Red exterior with the gray leather interior, but I can't -- the only options with Opera Red are beige or black. I also don't particularly need a navigation system, but in order to get the features I do really want, I have to go with the SEL, which means accepting the nav system (including the cost for it). I can either decide to pay for the SEL package, or get a different car. I chose the former. I just don't take the whole thing personally.
Actually, I would just as happily have bought a Jetta if VW had made it possible to get some of the features I want: Homelink and automatic headlights to name a couple. But I can't get those in a Jetta at any price point, so I'm getting a Passat. Yes, that's a conscious decision by VW to move me up a level. But when I compare the price to all the competition, I see that I would pay the same or more for any similarly equipped, similarly priced vehicle -- in most cases, it's more.
That's how the market works. As I was trying to point out, you aren't going to find many (if any) options for your manual transmission with a sunroof on a car with good driving characteristics. If you find one, take it. Just don't be emotional about it, because you can be sure the car companies aren't.
Considering calling VW Corporate NA at 1-800-822-8987 to register a complaint. If enough complaints are received some re-embursement may follow. After all if the saleman said your trans would fail at 100-125K would you have bought the car in the first place?
all that said, any transmission can fail around 100k, but i'd bet some brands have lower failure rate than others! other random big-$ failures become lots more likely with that many miles too.
there are approximately one gazillion passats with the slushbox tranny, so we have a rate of 4 out of one gazillion here, not necessarily indicating a trend.
has your balance-shaft/chain-drive system failed yet? ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of 2004/2005 USA passat TDIs that get near 100k will have that system fail somewhat catastrophically. VW has a gear-system replacement and has provided free extended-warranty for that stuff, if I've heard correctly...
Please note: 2012 vw jetta is a really good car based on a price.Unfortunatelly quality of materials and lack of independent rear suspention (except in GLI model) brings this car on the same level of quality as Toyota,Honda etc.... The biggest advantage is 140 hp diesel engine that is proven to a fantastic option for this car. The engine is being used in Audi lineup in Europe for years and without any problems.
On the other hand, 2012 Passat has kept vw quality all around (and inside).
If you are not speed freak get a TDI passat Highline with every option for around 33k. 236lb of torque and average 6 Liters on 100 kilometers is a hybrid teritory without tons of bateries waiting to fry you....
They have the exact same TDI drivetrain. The dealer and several online reviews said the Passat was much, much larger, but the actual specs say there is slightly under a foot difference in length and in person they looked the same size. I've read that the Passat has a nicer suspension and in person I noticed that the Passat has the nicer dashboard material (which is nice, but that's not an surface you have a lot of regular contact with). I didn't check out the other interior materials (and of course those vary between the trims), but they overall interior look was generally the same.
Overall, the differences seemed minor to a casual observer like myself, and I am curious to hear more from someone who knows these cars well.
Have had over 10k in warranty work on this POC and now 3-4k more and this is on me ! Turbo ( yea that one they had no turbo in the states so they had to fly in from Germany ) , A/C system 85k, at 105k rack and pinion, power steering pump, premature failure of original cv joint 25k. Have NEVER had a tranny go out in 35 years of driving and two fail on this gem.
The whole 36k warranty is a joke, IF you're building car the basic drivetrain should last 100k before the first wrench is put on it. Otherwise no incentive to use more than twist ties off old bread sacks and rubber bands for tranny.
You have to wonder if after the Iron Curtain collapsed if they did not hire on a bunch of Yugo engineers. NAW Yugo trannys lasted longer.
I stopped in at the local VW dealership the other day to see if they'd taken delivery on a new manual TDI yet (oh what the hell) and to see what used inventory they had. No stick Passats in sight. After they thought I'd left, I overheard the sales guy regaling his sales manager with tales of having survived a chance meeting with Sasquatch, aka me.
The appeal of VW has been that it offers the solid engineering of its upper brand lines of Audi and Porsche at a price not driven beyond value. But every post online seems to warn you away from VW, not just the new Jetta and Passat as dumbed down Nissans, but the entire product line as being a sinkhole at mile 36,001.
Becoming the punchline for the sales team at the local VW dealership, however, makes me want to forget the blogosohere warnings and march right out to buy one from a competing VW dealership. Take that, dumb bastids. Guess I'll resist the temptation to buy VW and instead buy a car--actually I'm in the market for two--from another product line. God knows, there are enough dealers looking to sell cars.
When did the VW vibe--what people say about the car, the public interface with its customers, the vibe--turn so negative?
What kind of maintenance expectations am I looking at if I chose a TDI with a stick?
I currently drive a Sonata with 100k warranty. VW only backs their cars for 36k???
Diesels last forever, but what about VW's diesels?
Manual transmissions normally don't ever break, but clutches need replacing. What is the life of a clutch with this combination?
This tank in the trunk that needs to be refilled every 15k - what is it and how much to fill it back up?
tks
Wanted to trade the car in but VW dealer does not want it- no surprise they know whats wrong with it. Wanted to get 2012 Passat TDI with manual transmission but without decent trade in I'll just patch this thing together. Love the TDI but not VW and would NEVER buy another auto transmission any on a diesel. They cannot take the torque. I also have 2000 Jetta manual 48+ MPG. Too bad VW hired the Yugo engineers to design their auto transmissions.
I've been trying to find one to test drive and buy since they introduced the 2012s. There are none available in the NY market. What does that tell you? It's not a priority for VW.
In the interim, I've bought a car for myself (non VW), and am looking for a car for my spouse. However, I've become pretty disenchanted with a number of aspects of VW, the track record of their cars, the company and its poor performance and warranty profile, and at least one of the dealers.
It looks like it's all pretty cavalier at this company. And from what I read above... I'm even more persuaded that VW is a risky investment.
I had 2011 Jetta TDI/DSG Sunroof now have Passat SE auto/ 2.5 sunroof.
Just one satisfied owner throwing out some of my opinions which I hope helps.
I just picked up an automatic SEL TDI, in black with tan. Actually picking it up tonight and cannot wait.
Been driving VW for 14 years and would not change it for anything. Traded in my 2010 CC for the passat and have a Taureg with 41K miles on it and never had any major issues. And any issues I have had have been covered. Love the way the vehicles drive
test drive a sonata, camry, optima, accord and any other competitor in the same class. Then go drive the TDI and V6 passat, its no contest.