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0 down 0 deposit 0 due at signing
10k a year 381 with tax
12k a year 401 with tax
15k a year 421 with tax
keep in mind that in a lease every $1,000 down lowers your payment by $27.00 each month.
The residual value for a lease with only 10,000 miles per year is 1% higher.
When negotiating your lease on this car, make sure to take advantage of the $1,000 cash incentive that is currently available on it.
Car_man
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Car_man
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Can you provide the numbers for a TSX base 4 cyl and 6 cyl 15k a year
Thanks
The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of a 2010 TSX Base V6 are .00125 and 55%.
When negotiating your lease, make sure to take advantage of the $750 dealer cash that is available on the base 4-cylinder and $1,250 that is available on the base V6.
Car_man
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The exact amount of cash varies by trim level. There's $750 on the '10 TSX 4-cyl. Base, $1,000 on the TSX 4-cyl. with Tech, $1,250 on the TSX V6 Base, and $1,500 on TSX V6 with Tech.
Car_man
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Today, i got quote on a 10 TSX with tech pkg:
12k miles
$399.70 Monthy Pmt (7% Tax included)
Selling Price $29789 ($1300 below invoice which includes the $1000 incentive they giving)
Residual 58%
MF 0.0016
Down Pmt: $1493 (which includes first month, dmv, bank fees)
For 15k miles with $1520 down monthly pmt would be $419.
What do you guys think? It looks like the price has increased on this car and they have also increased the interest rate.
You have provided the two most important pieces of information in any lease transaction: selling price and cost of money (i.e., money factor). The selling price looks great. However, check overstock at zag.com for competitive pricing in your area. If you qualify, make sure the 0.00160 money factor reflects the "buy rate" (i.e., the money factor with 0% reserves).
The problem is that you have some missing information and so I can't evalute your deal. For instance, the 58% residual means nothing if I don't have the MSRP upon which the residual value is calculated. And so, having the residual value would be very helpful. Also, I don't know your state. Not all states levy sales tax on leases the same way. Some tax the payment streams (CA, PA); others tax the total payments (OH, NJ, NY); while others tax depreciation (CO). And, then, there are those that tax selling price (III).
Also be advised that the $1,493 is not a down payment. It represents the amount paid upfront which you haven't itemized. What's the bank fee? DMV fee? Down payment means the same thing as cap reduction.
If you can provide additional detail, I'll be able to evaluate.
Hope this helps.
John
Just got quoted selling price 29,986 for a TSX with Tech. For 15k miles they quoted me 429 with 2000k down. I'm new to leasing so I don't have any of the other pertinent numbers.
I guess it's a decent deal when comparing it to others on this site.....your thoughts?
Unfortunately, an estimate of the MSRP isn't going to help me. I need the exact figure; otherwise, I'm just guessing. It's crucial because the residual value is dependent upon it. In addition, all numbers provided should be to the penny; not rounded or ball park. In the interests of expediency, I suggest that you ask the dealer to email/FAX you or me the LEASE WORKSHEET. It can be emailed to me, if you prefer, at
diffeq@zoominternet.net
This will tell me everything I want to know. Then, I can evaluate it intelligently. Also, I think the selling price can be reduced by $325.
John
2021 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 4xe Granite Crystal over Saddle
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
In short, the easiest way to get a good deal on a leased vehicle is to shop around for the lowest possible selling price and then have the dealer that you decide to go with calculate your vehicle's monthly payment using its buy rate lease money factor.
Let's take a look at the selling price that you were quoted. The dealer invoice price for a 2010 Acura TSX 4-cylinder with Tech and an automatic transmission is $31,012. When we subtract the $1,000 dealer cash that is currently available on this model from that, it drops to right around $30,000. The selling price that you were quoted is just under that, which is a very good deal.
Just make sure that the dealer uses Honda Finance's current buy rate lease money factor of .00160 for non-sign and drive and .00150 for sign and drive leases to customers who qualify for its top aka "Super Preferred" credit tier to calculate your monthly payment and you're in business.
Car_man
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I'll make some calls and see what I can find out. Please feel free to post a reminder in this discussion for me and I'll fill you in on what I have been able to find out.
Car_man
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FYI: TSX no tech, $26,334, 61% residual, 12k, MF .00160
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
So, if you then moved to a state that collects it monthly, you may be subject to more tax (9%-10% in PA)..
So, in this instance... Let's say you lease a car for $350/mo. in NJ.. The tax would be $882 (36 X $350 X 7%), making your new payment about $375 with tax included.. (But, the entire tax has been paid to the state).
You then move to PA, which taxes your $375/mo. payment, making the new payment, $408.75 ($375 X 1.09).
PA may give you credit for the $882 tax you paid in NJ, but I wouldn't bet on it.... If you have to do it this way, I'd definitely pay the $882 tax upfront in New Jersey... At least that way, you won't be paying tax on the tax when you move..
Is there any way you can register the car in PA now? Do you have your new address?
regards,
kyfdx
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kyfdx is correct. However, NJ gives you two options:
(1) pay tax on the sell price or;
(2) pay tax on the sum of the taxable payments which may or may not equal the lease payment depending upon whether or not taxes are capped in the lease. Like Ohio, NJ forbids tax levied on tax.
Because of residualized financing, it's always cheaper to select option (2). In either case, tax is due and payable upfront. Yes, the tax can be rolled into the lease where the fund provider pays the tax upfront on your behalf.
Pa taxes only the payment receipts as they are received. I would check with the NJ Dept of revenue to see whether or not NJ and Pa have a reciprocity agreement regarding sales tax. As kyfdx indicated, Pa may issue a tax credit for taxes paid in NJ.
John
Thanks ,
Paul
MSRP: $31,120
Selling Price: $26,169
15K Mile for 36mon
Residual: 59%
Money Factor: 0.00160
Add to Cap cost I believe was: $1,335ish (incl: $595 aquisition fee, $399 doc fee and title/reg)
Tax: 7% (NJ)
Lease rate: $364.72/mon
There is absoluterly no justice in what you've described (please excuse my weak attempt at humor). Here's the deal...
MSRP........................... 31,120.00
Sell Price...................... 26,169.00
Amts Financed.
Acq Fee..................... 595.00 (taxable in NJ)
Doc Fee..................... 399.00 (taxable in NJ)
DMV/Gov Fees.......... 813.00 (non-taxable)
NJ Sales Tax @7.00%... 799.70 (0.07 x 36 x 317.34)
GROSS CAP............... 28,775.80
Cap Reduction.............. 0.00
ADJ CAP.................... 28,775.80
Money Factor............. 0.00160
Residual Factor......... 59%
Residual Value......... 18,360.80 (Res. Factor x MSRP)
Term......................... 36
NJ Sales Tax Rate.... 7.00%
Lease Payment....... 364.72
Taxable Payment.... 317.34
You need to confirm that the dealer or the fund provider is making the first payment and that it's not capitalized in the lease which is what I'm assuming as their national promo ad provides...
2010 TSX 4-cylinder Featured Special Lease - Zero Due at Lease Signing
$0 down payment, $0 security deposit, $0 first month's payment, $0 due at lease signing Excludes taxes, titles and fees. $370.00 a month for 35 months thereafter. For well-qualified buyers.FEATURED SPECIAL LEASE: Closed-end lease for 2010 TSX 5 Speed Automatic (Model CU2F6AJW) for $370.00 per month for 36 months with $0 capitalized cost reduction available to customers who qualify for the Acura Financial Services Super Preferred credit tier. Other rates/tiers are available under this offer. $0.00 due at lease signing ($0 first month's payment, $0 capitalized cost reduction and $0 security deposit; total net capitalized cost and base monthly payment does not include tax, license, title, registration, documentation fees, options, insurance and the like). Not all buyers may qualify. $0 due at lease signing offer requires dealer contribution, which could affect final negotiated transaction.
Subject to limited availability. From May 28, 2010 through July 6, 2010, to approved lessees by Acura Financial Services. Closed end lease for 2010 TSX 5 Speed Automatic (Model CU2F6AJW), for well qualified lessees. Not all lessees will qualify. Higher lease rates apply for lessees with lower credit ratings. MSRP $30,170.00 (includes destination). Net capitalized cost $29,426.30. Net capitalized cost includes $595 acquisition fee. Dealer contribution may vary and could affect actual lease payment. Taxes, license, title fees, options and insurance extra. Total monthly payments $12,950.00. Option to purchase at lease end $18,705.40. Lessee responsible for maintenance, excessive wear/tear and 15 cents/mi. over 10,000 miles/year for vehicles with MSRP less than $30,000, but for vehicles with MSRP of $30,000 or more, mileage cost is 20 cents/mi. over 10,000 miles/year. See dealer for complete details.
closeprint
If, as the ad suggests, the dealer/fund provider makes the 1st payment, then my financial forensics investigation indicates that there is no way possible that only $1,335 is being capitalized in this lease given a lease payment of $364.72 and a sell price of $26,169. In order to arrive at that payment, the amount financed (i.e., capitalized) must be $2,606.70 which includes the items described above. Something is seriously wrong and I suspect it has something to do with the outrageous DMV/Gov fees of $813.00 shown above. A doc fee of $399 also seems excessive.
Are you financing any negative equity which is not taxable in NJ? Although very unlikely, is the dealer taxing the sell price instead of the total payments? In NJ, dealers have the option of either taxing the sell price or total payments. The total payment tax method is always cheaper due to residualized financing. The sell price method would yield a tax base of $27,163.00 (26,169 + 595+399) for which the tax would be $1,901.41. This would have increased your monthly payment by about $15 and, for this reason, I believe the dealer computed your tax based on the total payment method.
I suggest you ask the dealer for their LEASE WORKSHEET. If they refuse, RUN; DON'T WALK! Otherwise, if you like, you can email it to me at
diffeq@zoominternet.net
and I'll be happy to review it. Questions? Please let me know.
Hope this helps
John
PS: Because of rounding convention, there should be no more than a few pennies difference between my figures and those of the dealer.
Thanks for the reply. To throw a wrench into things, I am dealing with a VA Acura dealer but registering it in NJ. That leaves me with the question, are DMV fees taxed in VA? I can't remember exactly but I believe the DMV fees added up to approx $342 according to his Auto Titiling Corp worksheet which he said were included in the $1336 (595 aqu fee, 399 doc and 342 dmv). Also, I believed they are taxing the sale price of the vehicle.
I am a little confused on where what fees fall in what order to derive a monthly payment.
Well now, that makes a huge difference. I assumed from your post that we were dealing only with NJ sales tax. To my knowledge, DMV fees are not taxed in VA. Besides, tax on the DMV fees would hardly make a dent in the payment. You may be paying VA taxes as well as NJ taxes but receiving a tax credit of some sort. You are correct, VA does tax the sell price which would make the payment significantly more than $364.72. So, you need to investigate the taxes.
Regarding the fees and how they factor into the lease payment...
If you examine my previous post and use the following formula, it might "unconfuse" you.
P = F x (C + R) + (C - R) / N
P = lease payment
F = money factor
C = adjusted cap
R = residual value
N = term
Keep me posted and let me know if I can be of further assistance.
All the Best,
John
You're making too much sense! However, because you purchased the vehicle in VA, it may be subject to VA regardless of where the vehicle is registered. I would contact the VA Dept of Revenue...
http://www.tax.virginia.gov/site.cfm?alias=ContactUs
and ask them because I'm not really sure. I know that some states will tax you regardless of where it's registered.
John
Now this leaves me to ask the dealer to charge me tax upfront on the total lease payments. This will lower the monthly payments significantly. I would like to get them down on the ultra high DMV fees ($342).
2010 TSX 4-cylinder Featured Special Lease - Zero Due at Lease Signing
$0 down payment, $0 security deposit, $0 first month's payment, $0 due at lease signing Excludes taxes, titles and fees.
John
So, I guess it's back to square one. If the DMV fees are, indeed, $342, then what does the remaining $471 (813.00 - 342.00) represent assuming the entire $813 reflects non-taxable items? DMV fees in NJ aren't taxable.
The dealer's lease worksheet will speak volumes and tell us what we want to know.
John
. Im putting down 4000 with fees included for 2010 tsx 4 cycl tech pkg of 10000 annual mileage . Is this over priced ?????
greatly appreciate your feedback .
thanks
John
Thanks for the replies. I have tried to email you again but hotmail won't let me send it referring to something about spam within the email. Strange
Sorry for the inconvenience. Please try re-sending. I've turned off the spam filter.
John
Car_man
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This dealer cash is compatible with Honda Finance's special lease program for this car.
Car_man
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If the $4,000 includes a hefy cap reduction, which I'm betting that it does, I wouldn't never do it! Here's why...
A car is a depreciating asset and is purchased for consumption; and so, it's not an investment. No prudent investor would ever invest in stock that they know will depreciate or lose value over time. Also, if the vehicle is lost or stolen and never recovered, the insurance carrier will only pay ACV (actual cash value or est. market value). If you have GAP protection and your lease balance exceeds the ACV (called the GAP), your GAP protection will cover the difference.
It might be helpful to remember the following before deciding to make a cash down payment (i.e.,cap cost reduction)...
If the GAP equals or exceeds 0, then you owe nothing and receive nothing. However, you've lost your entire cap reduction or dp. The insurance company will pay the fund provider the ACV and the GAP carrier will pay the fund provider the difference between the amount owed (lease or loan balance) and the ACV. And so, the fund provider doesn't lose; you do!
If GAP < 0, then you'll receive, from the fund provider, the difference between the ACV and the lease balance or loan balance plus any transaction costs incurred by the fund provider. However, this may not be sufficient to cover your cap reduction or dp. In which case, you would lose the difference. The only thing the fund provider wants is the outstanding balance owed plus any transaction costs. You, of course, get whatever remains (the scraps so to speak).
One other thing... never buy GAP insurance from a dealer if the fund provider doesn't offer it in their lease contract, or provides it at additional charge, because the cost is inflated by about 1000%! Check with your insurance carrier and, whether you buy or lease, your carrier can attach a GAP rider to your existing insurance policy. The annual cost, as a rule of thumb, is roughly 0.1% of the vehicle's MSRP. So, if the MSRP is $49,590, then your annual GAP premium is roughly 0.1% x $49,590 or about $50 annually.
All the Best,
John
Could you please give us the July money factor and residual for the Acura TSX 4-cyl. base model?
Also, a general question: do packages/options added to a model influence the residual percentage?
Thanks in advance!
Yes, considering the same mileage, a Tech package will lower the residual by about 3%.
However, I do find it strange that a car with a navi will not keep its value as well as a car without navi.
Well... it's worth less as a percentage of MSRP, but still worth more, overall..
I think that would apply to just about any option that isn't considered "necessary".
It's also indicative of the high price of factory NAV... $2000+, and the price has remained high, even though the underlying technology has become cheaper and cheaper on the aftermarket..
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Honda puts Navigation cost the same as the option for the V6. Does that really make sense? Add the V6, Add the Nav and your up over $4k in options. Seems a bit unrealistic.
Also, seems silly, but opt out of the nav and only get 1 CD in your stereo system, rater than the nearly standard now days 6disc.
The first thing you should do is take some time to understand how leasing works. Learn the terminology, basic calculations, etc. Let me share some guidelines I use when leasing...
1st Rule Do your homework. Research selling price by checking invoice pricing and incentives at Edmunds. Also, check overstock at zag.com for competitive sell prices in your area. Research the money factor and be sure you're getting the "buy" rate if your credit is good enough to qualify (see discussion below).
2nd Rule Create a one-page lease proposal. It must be on your letterhead and be a very professional looking document. All calculations must be spot on and contain no errors of any kind. Include all pertinent data such as a description of the vehicle, MSRP, sell price, amounts capitalized (e.g., taxes, acq. fee, etc), cap reductions (e.g., trade, cash down, etc), money factor, residual factor, residual value, term, taxable payment, lease payment, amounts due up front (itemized), contract provisions (gap insurance, excess mileage charge, applicable disposition/purchase option fees). All dollar amounts are calculated, not by the dealer, but by you using a program that you created.
A professional looking one-page lease proposal speaks volumes about you... it sends the message that you know and understand leasing. That quickly serves notice to the dealer, and so; they're not as inclined to play games.
3rd Rule Fax/email the proposal to the dealer and negotiate via phone/email from the comfort of your home/office with your laptop excel spreadsheet lease program fired up and ready to rumble! The only thing you're likely to negotiate is the sell price and that only requires a few keystrokes on your laptop. And, bing-bang-boom you're done! This suggests that the biggest advantage of a lease proposal is that it saves time, money, and aggravation.
If you like, email me at
diffeq@zoominternet.net
and I'll send you a few sample lease proposals.
The key is that you must control the deal. Never allow a dealer to control the deal by allowing them to "run the numbers". Trying to figure out the dealer's numbers is often a pointless exercise and, frankly, a waste of time unless, of course, you have a copy of their LEASE WORKSHEET. This is a computer generated document that eliminates confusion and guess work and will tell you everything you need to know and then some. The beauty of this document is that it always tells the truth. Allowing the dealer to control will only end up costing you more money in most instances.
If you agree to allow the dealer to "run the numbers", ALWAYS ask them for their LEASE WORKSHEET. If they refuse to give you a copy, RUN; DON'T WALK! However, there is absolutely no reason for the dealer to refuse to give you a copy of their lease worksheet.
Now, let's examine the following hypothetical lease...
MSRP.................................... 80,000
Negotiated Sell Price............... 74,000
Amounts Financed
Acquisition Fee...................... 650
Dealer Doc Fee..................... 250
Gross Cap Cost................... 74,900
Cap Reduction (Trade Cr.).... 6,000
Adj (net) Cap Cost (C).......... 68,900
Cost of Money/Residual
Money Factor (F)............... 0.00100
Residual Factor................. 55%
Residual Value (R)............ 44,000 (Res. Factor x MSRP)
Term (N).......................... 36
Monthly Payment = F x (C + R) + (C - R) / N
= 0.00100 x (68,900 + 44,000) + (68,900 - 44,000) / 36
= 112.90 + 691.67
= 804.57
Observe that I've bolded the Negotiated Sell Price and the Money Factor as these are the two most important items in any lease transaction because they drive the cost.
A note regarding down payments (cap reductions)...
As I indicated in a previous post (#1866), I do not advise making a cash down payment (i.e., cash cap reduction). A car is a depreciating asset and is purchased for consumption; and so, it's not an investment. No savvy investor would ever invest in stock that they know will depreciate or lose value over time. Also, if the vehicle is lost or stolen and never recovered, the insurance carrier will only pay ACV (actual cash value or est. market value). If your lease balance exceeds the ACV (called the GAP), your GAP protection will cover the difference. See my previous post (#1866) that addresses the issue of GAP protection.
A note on money factors...
Money factors generally follow a tiered structure. Here's a hypothetical example...
0.00120 + 0% Reserves.... "buy" rate
0.00140 + 1% Reserves
0.00160 + 2% Reserves
0.00180 + 3% Reserves
Reserves are similar to points paid for a mortgage loan but only in reverse. In mortgage financing, points are charged to buydown the interest rate where 1 point equates to 1% of the amount borrowed. In car financing, reserves are used as an incentive (reward) for dealers to write loans or leases at rates exceeding the buy rate. The "buy" rate, also known as base rate, is the rate used by the lender to calculate the finance charge, all of which, is retained by the lender. In other words, the lender doesn't share any portion of the finance charge with the dealer. But, if the dealer writes a loan or lease at a rate that exceeds the "buy" rate, then the dealer has earned the right to be compensated by receiving a portion of the finance charge. The amount of compensation is typically 75% of the difference between the total finance charges.
If the dealer writes a lease with a money factor of say 0.00160, then they will be compensated with its associated reserve level of 2%. This means the dealership receives roughly 2% of adjusted capcost assuming the adjusted cap does not include bank related fees. A bank isn't going to allow a dealer to earn reserves on their bank (acquisition) fees.
The term "reserves" is actually an old term. It used to be that dealers weren't entitled to reserves until the end of the lease and, so, the fund provider would "reserve" those dollars for the dealer until the lease was satisfactorily fulfilled.
Now, there are those fund providers that offer a tiered structure that depends only on the customer's credit score. They pay the dealer a flat fee instead of reserves regardless of the tiered rate selected. In this case, the very best rate is called the buy rate and is reserved (no pun intended) only for those with the very best credit.
Hope this long-winded dissertation was helpful and not confusing.
John
Are the MF posted here the best MF available (give the credit score)?