BMW 3-Series Lease Questions

swamee · April 2013

$600-$700 seems fair. Does that include all dealer fees etc?

dchabitant · April 2013

$51,100 does NOT include fees. But the dealer was very straight forward and upfront about those. He didn't try to pad the money factor, and he didn't pad the fees--Acquisition fee is $725, doc/processing is $399 (a bit high, but standard for VA). Other than tags and taxes, no other fees. Everything above board, nothing hidden.

ranjohn · April 2013

Haha, as soon as you said the "DC" area I figured it would have been near Falls Church/Fairfax. I actually live in WV for now but will be moving to the northern part soon (close to DC). I actually go to that area a lot so I'll def look into it. My term ends this July but it's not too early to look into this.

thevanguard · April 2013

What is the money factor for a 2013 335xi for 15,000 miles?

Thank you so much for your help!

dchabitant · April 2013

April money factor is .00129 (irrespective of mileage; mileage affects residual only). 7 security deposits bring MF down to .0008.

if there's a change for May, I'm sure Car man or one of the other hosts will post it.

You're welcome.

swamee · April 2013

Thanks dchabitant all very valuable info!

swamee · April 2013

http://www.realcartips.com/bmw-incentives/

dchabitant · April 2013

You're very welcome. Just passing on info I've gathered from others. Regarding incentives: While BMW has eliminated the incentives that were being offered in March (on most 2013 models), they actually raised the residual value by a couple of percentage points. So it's not all bad. In fact, if you're car is over $50k, it's actually a slightly better deal than $1,000 cash incentive (if you're leasing).

thevanguard · April 2013

Thanks for the info! Really helps out having resources like this! Really really appreciate it!

I was confused about this...But the MSD's do not also get applied as a cap cost adjustment right...double dipping. But just confirming haha!

dchabitant · April 2013

No they don't. MSD's serve only to reduce money factor. Once the lease is up, the money is refunded to you.

kanchis · May 2013

Your invoice should be around 39325 (-8% of MSRP)
If you are a returning customer there's a 750 credit and If I factor in then the dealer is selling you the car for roughly 1500 above invoice. If you do not have that credit as a returning BMWFS customer then the dealer is only marking up 750 over invoice.

Bottom line is there's room to improve. Read the forums and you will see that people are paying around ~500 over invoice i think for the 3 series.

eyedi27 · May 2013

I have ordered my wife's 335xi 300 over invoice + dealership fee (can't avoid in my state) on mid of April. Credit was ran on 4/30 and was approved. However it looks like they are trying to mark up this MF because I was quoted at 0.00169 instead of Base MF 0.00129 for April. This is exactly 0.0004 that they can mark up to. This almost means I am paying 1000 more for original plan and it makes me frustrated a bit.

So my question is how should I deal with this MF mark up? Should I flat out say lower my MF because I think I am getting 0.00129?

dchabitant · May 2013

The dealer I was about to buy from did the same thing. They gave me a decent deal on price, then jacked up the fees and the money factor. Don't stand for it. They are allowed to markup both the acquisition fee ($725 to $925) and the money factor, but they don't have to do that. I would insist that they don't, at least on the money factor.

If there are other dealers in your area, shoot them an email with theprice you were quoted, and tell them that if they can match the price and give you the base money factor, they have your business.

swamee · May 2013

facing the same issue! Decent selling price & reasonable dealer fees for purchase but awful add on ($2k+) to bank fees($725) almost completely wiping out the deal on sale price if I were to lease. And a MF of 1.65 on top of that! Absolutely no logic or market sense to it. My only feasible option is to buy which i'm not sure I want to

dchabitant · May 2013

I just cancelled my order, and went with another dealer who was more upfront. Sent an email to the sales manager telling him the price I wanted, the fees I was willing to pay, and the money factor I would accept. Told him that if he met my terms, we could close the deal quickly. Got what I wanted. Maybe try the same thing.

if you're in MD/DC/VA area, I can refer you to the person I dealt with.

carbuff123 · May 2013

Hi All,

I was curious if those more informed can advised me if this is a good deal. I have worked through several dealers and believe I have solidified a good deal on a 36 month lease for a 335i Xdrive Sedan with a 6 speed transmission. The only package the car has is the M sport package with Estoril blue.

The car has the following ala cart options: Heated Seats, Navigation, Upgraded sound, and BMW Assist. The dealer is in New Jersey.

The MSRP is $52,970
The invoice price is $49,260
Term: 36 Months
15,000 miles per year
No cash down payment
only fees due at signing
monthly payment $553.00

I appreciate anyone's assistance. Thank you!!!

carguy778 · May 2013

Sounds like a good deal, but how the dealer is giving you $553/month on a invoice price of $49260? I mean sounds like a good deal.

eyedi27 · May 2013

I would like to cancel my order but I will have to ask them to refund my "non-refundable" deposit.

dchabitant · May 2013

Did you sign a formal lease agreement already, or just the "buyer's order"? Were you given a VIN? If you're car isn't already in production, I don't think they can refuse to refund your money. (I can't say for sure, but usually they only charge your credit card, or cash your check, once the VIN has been issued.) Moreover, a contract is invalid if there is no "meeting of the minds". If you were not made fully aware of all the terms, there IS no valid contract.

I you want to challenge it, I think you could call BMW and let them know that you were not properly informed that the money factor had been marked up.

eyedi27 · May 2013

Well they made me sign their "sale agreement"
it does not have vin number just my optional package and agreed sales price.
It doesn't say anything about Mf or residual or any finance information.
Hopefully they will be able to lower the Mf or I am probably looking to cancel this and move on.

It's not about paying $20 that makes me want to cancel but it dealership's usual lying behavior that makes me ticked off.

And our car just ended production too.

swamee · May 2013

thanks but that's exactly what I did!

egad1 · May 2013

2013 335xi, with 13.5K miles. Premium package, Convenience package, winter package and navigation. MSRP is $52795.

Dealer offering for $45.2K. 3 year lease. MF = 0.00129. Rebate of $1500, but doc fee and acquisition fee wipe that out. And because I live in georgia TAVT is 6%. Trading my car in so able to put $4500 down. Monthly payments come to $439/month for 12K miles.

Any thoughts on if this is a good deal and where I can negotiate? New car similarly equipped for similar down and trade has been quoted at $540/month.

Since this is a lease, I am not too concerned about the demo driving if I get a good deal.

ranjohn · May 2013

Hey buddy, I'm front NJ too and my term is up in 2 months. Which dealer did you go to (if you don't mind telling)?

swamee · May 2013

Here's my ranking of NJ/PA Dealers. Shall describe in detail my experiences later.
1. BMW Freehold. Good price. Professional. Easy to work with. My only grouse against them is their trade-in process for non-BMWs. They just dont have the infrastructure so you have to put up a craigslist ad or go elsewhere. In my book wont work - if you're a car dealer I dont care what you sell, you just cant get snobbish about trades.
2. BMW Mainline. If you're the negotiating type unlike me, you can work a deal. Responsive customer service.
3. BMW Bridgewater. Good for stuff on the lot. Not so good for custom builds.
4. Thompson BMW.
5. BMW Mt Laurel. Be very cautious and on guard at all times.
6. WorldWide BMW was the worst - no response at all after a truecar offer!

nyccarguy · May 2013

Funny you had a bad experience with Wide World. I leased my 2011 328xi from them. They gave me a great price & $3000 more for my trade than the other dealer I was dealing with. Their service department is also top notch. I drive from CT to service my car there.

Good luck with your 335xi 6 speed! Nice ride;)

swamee · May 2013

Not surpised as I don't believe Truecar to be a really credible broker. My experience may have been different had I approached them straight up maybe. My friend had a good experience with Thompson so it varies depending upon which kid(internet sales) or pro you're dealing with.
Also, a good website apart from this forum on educating and mentally pacing/bracing oneself would be fool.com ( http://www.fool.com/Car/Car.htm ). Its shocking how some of the older pieces there are still relevant. And I couldn't believe how many times the sales folks claimed they were under invoice already - are they really that insulated from these forums/websites?!

nyccarguy · May 2013

Not insulated, just highly trained. Just as you the consumer want to pay as little as you can, the salesman's job is to maximize profit for the dealer he or she works for. They may sound casual saying something like: "we're $1000 apart, lets just split the difference. And really, what's $500 extra over the course of a 36 month lease? Not even $14 per month." But it is calculated. For every person who "walks out" and gets their $500 on the phone the next day, there are 15 - 20 people who just say "ok."

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2013

Hi swamee. There's nothing wrong with trading in a vehicle when you lease a new one. I actually did it once before myself. There can actually be a sales tax advantage in some states, even on leases, to doing so.

However there is two important things to keep in mind when trading in a vehicle on a lease. First, I always like to keep both transactions separate. This means to negotiate a great deal on the new vehicle that you want and then see how much the dealer is willing to give you for your trade. I'm not saying to be deceptive about the fact that you want to trade something in, just to treat them as two different transactions. This keeps things simpler and prevents dealers from playing with the numbers.

The other thing is to not use the proceeds from your trade as a capitalized cost reduction for your lease. You already know that I advise against making large down payments on leased vehicles. You can and should just have the dealer cut you a check for any equity that you have in your trade.

As far as the money factor goes, BMW dealers are notorious for marking up vehicles' money factors, so it is very possible, perhaps even likely that the dealer will not calculate your vehicle's payment using the buy rate unless you absolutely insist that they do so. And even then it's sometimes tough

.

$1,400 in fees seems a little steep. How does it break down? BMW Financial Services charges a $725 acquisition fee on every vehicle that it leases. This fee is unavoidable, but you should keep an eye on it because dealers sometimes try to mark it up by a couple hundred dollars as well.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2013

Hi Gd0t. Please send small, un-marked bills to P.O. Box...:). Just kidding. Thank you so much for the kind words. That in itself is very rewarding and very much appreciated.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2013

Here you go vince1313. BMW Financial Services' current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36-month lease of a 2013 335i Sedan with 12,000 miles per year are .00127 and 64% for consumers who qualify for its top credit tiers.

The residual value for a lease of this car with 10,000 miles per year would be 1% higher.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2013

Here of course

mruth. In all honesty, I've always found the pricing data here at Edmunds.com to be very good whenever I've used it in real-life situations.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2013

Hi thevanguard. Here's the new May info for you. BMW Financial Services' May buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36-month lease of a 2013 335xi Sedan with 15,000 miles per year are .00127 and 62% for consumers who qualify for its top credit tiers.

BMW is still not providing any cash incentives on leases of this car in May, other than the loyalty offers.

Car_man
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carguy778 · May 2013

Thanks for all the help in this forum.

I have managed to lease 328xi with premium, tech and cold weather package, dark burl wood trim and white and beige interior.

MSRP 47500k ~
INVOICE 44K
SALE 43.5K ~
MF 0.00129
RV 62%
0 DOWN
only taxes, 3yrs tags and 200 dealer fees.

15/36

505/month.

Once again, thank you all. My wife loves the car.

mbz01 · May 2013

Car_man - could you be so kind as to help me with money factor and residual on the 328ix wagon - 2014. 36 Month. 12K/ yr. Also - any suggestions on where to find dealer invoice on this car? Looked at trucar but doesn't look like they offer the info for the wagon. Many thanks.

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2013

I'm glad that everything worked out for you, carguy778. Thanks for taking the time to share a real world example like this with everyone. I hope that your wife enjoys her new ride :shades: !

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2013

I'd be happy to help you out mbz01. BMW Financial Services' May buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36-month lease of a 2014 328xi Wagon with 12,000 miles per year are .00127 and 59% for consumers who qualify for its top credit tiers.

You can find the pricing data for that vehicle right here at Edmunds.com

! Here's a link:

http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3-series/2014/options.html?sub=wagon

Car_man
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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

mbz01 · May 2013

Many thanks. Shame the residual is so much lower than the sedan (64% vs 59% on similar 12k/yr 3 yr lease.) No wonder they sell-lease so many fewer wagons... Great forum. Thanks!

mistagamer76 · May 2013

car_man - could you be so kind as to help me with money factor and residual on the 2013 328i sedan:

1.) 36 Month. 15K/yr.
2.) 24 Month. 15K/yr.

Thanks.

thevanguard · May 2013

Thanks, Car_man!

jeres8860 · May 2013

Hi mbz01,

I'm also in the market to lease a 2014 3 series wagon. Have you had the chance to go down to the dealership and look at numbers?

I'm hoping to lease it for under 600 a month with tax; with less than 2500 down, with 15k. I want the tech and premium package.

do you think this is possible given the residual they want?

mbz01 · May 2013

jeres8860 - I have done some bargaining with dealers in Southern Cal and have a pretty good sense of what a solid deal on this car would look like. Spec out a car at BMWUSA.com and get its MSRP. If you post it here, I will post the numbers using your 15K and 2500 down as I understand them. If you are in the area, I can suggest a dealer who seemed most willing to make it happen on price.

jeres8860 · May 2013

Hi mbz01,

Thanks so much for the response. I'm actually in San Francisco and would be willing to pick the car up in Southern Cal if I couldn't get a good deal up here.

The MSRP on BMWUSA for the setup I want is: $51, 925.

Thanks again mbz01

atlrebmw · May 2013

Looking at a 328i with MSRP of $46,545.

I think the sales price is around 43,000 with 62% residual and MF at .00127 but not sure.

This is total payment including 6.5% GA TAVT below.

36 month/15k miles

$604 a month with $706.00 out of pocket

$583 a month with $1495.00 out of pocket

Is this a good deal?

mbz01 · May 2013

jeres8860 - here are the numbers as I understand them.
BMW 328xi
MSRP = 51925
Negotiated Price = 48250 (roughly $250 over invoice)
Dealer Invoice = 48,030 (I assumed approximately 92.5% of MSRP. Local dealers here have confirmed that as a good number - so it's close if not perfect.)
Money Factor - .00127 as per Car_man
Residual value - 57% (You should ask Car_man to confirm this. My rate was 59% residual on 12K miles, but you are looking for 15K)
Down payment = 2000
Using online calculator and 9% sales tax I get the following payment of = 607.96
If you put 2500 down, payment drops to $592.13 (tax is included)

Couple notes:
1. I have assumed you are negotiating a price a couple hundred dollars over invoice. Not all dealers will go here. Only one in my area was receptive to that - if you can not get there locally, I will pass on the first name of sales guy and dealer.
2. I assumed residual was 57%. You should ask Car_man to confirm this - its a big deal if its wrong. Give him milage (15K/yr and term of lease = 36 months) as these affect residual.
3. The car you want will likely have to be ordered. The dealers who have any in, are ordering just one - and then using it to generate orders. No one was really dealing on what was on their lot if they had anything at all - and if they had anything, it will likely not have what you want. And if they have it, it has what you want, they are likely not dealing... That was my experience anyway. The one car per lot seemed consistent from SD - LA.
4. It is commonly written on here that putting money down is not advised on leases - but it is not uncommon to put a small amount of "cap reduction" down to get to a lower payment - others can address that if they want. It may be wiser to go with nothing down and have a slightly higher monthly - though there is definitely a psychological barrier value that can't be figured on a lease calculator)

Finally, if it were me, I would use the internet. Calling or going in is futile if you are trying to deal on price. If Car_man would be kind enough to confirm the numbers above, I suggest you fire a note to the local dealers all at once with your specs and the numbers from above and ask them if they would be interested in doing business with these numbers - to see if you get a bite. In my case, not all were interested - but I found at least one that was good to go. When you open with money factor and residual, you avoid a lot of the game playing. I simply asked if my numbers were right, and the ones that wanted to discuss confirmed. Then it was just finding the one who would deal on sell price.

Good luck. Post your results here if you do go forward with it.

jeres8860 · May 2013

Hi mbz01,

Thank you so much for the info! I can't tell you what a help that is!

I have already test drove the car and it seems like what you said is consistent; that the dealerships have just one. I didn't really get into prices with the dealer, other than looking at what it costs without discussing discounts. At the time I wasn't sure which car I was going to get serious with, but after driving the Audi Allroad, it was clear. Dealing over the internet makes complete sense and I don't mind dealing with a dealership outside the local ones here in the bay area. In fact, it would be nice to drive it home after picking it up.

I will make another post to Car_man and confirm the numbers with him.

I am hoping to go over my miles too much, but I was thinking if I do, I would buy it and then flip it. do you think that's possible? selling a 3 year old 328i wagon for roughly 27000 with say 55k-60k miles?

Lastly, do you know roughly how long it takes to receive it, after placing an order? have you ordered yours?

Thanks again mbz01, it's very much appreciated.

jeres8860 · May 2013

Hi Car_Man,

I have spoken to mbz01 about leasing a new wagon and he was extremely helpful in helping me prepare to negotiate leasing a new 328i wagon. He said that you can help confirm the money factor and residual. I want to lease it with 15k miles a year and mbz01 thinks the residual will be 57% - can you please either confirm or deny this? Can you please confirm the money factor for such a lease?

Thanks so much, this forum is a huge help.

carbuff123 · May 2013

So I ended up ordering to be made a f30 335 xdrive Sedan with a Manual Transmission last week. Stupidly, i do not know the exact figures with respect to money factor and invoice or MSRP. However this is the deal. Maybe a guru can shed some light of the caliber of this deal.

Mineral Grey
M Sport Package
Harmon Kardon upgraded Sound
Navigation
Leatherette
Heated Seats
BMW Assist
Dynamic Handling Package
Aluminum Hexagon Trim

36 months
18k per year

$2061.97 at signing
$580.00 per month.

atlrebmw · May 2013

Any input?

ponytrekker · May 2013

Actually looks good. If you got the car at invoice, using base numbers you'd be paying about $610 with the extra miles (I am assuming sec deposit, bank fee and tax up front) so it looks like you are getting car for about $1200 under invoice.

For a made to order car, that's good.

carbuff123 · May 2013

Great news! Thanks !!!!

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