BMW 5-Series Lease Questions

CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Hi everyone. Please use the following discussion to post any questions that you have about leasing a BMW 5-Series. Thanks.

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hpowders · August 2005

Hey Car_man.
Do you know the residual value and base money factor for the new 2006 BMW 550i for a 36 month, 36,000 mile lease?
Thank you.
hpowders

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Hey hpowders. Here is the information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2006 BMW 550i through BMW Financial Services right now for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year its buy rate lease money factor and residual value should be .00280 and 59%, respectively.

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hpowders · September 2005

Thanks Car_man.
Ouch!

hummus1 · September 2005

Hello,

What is the current money factor and residual value for a 545 for a 36 month/15k miles per year lease in southern california. Thank you in advance.

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

You're welcome hpowders. Ouch is right, BMW is not providing any sort of lease support on this new model yet.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Hello hummus1. According to the latest information that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2005 BMW 545i through BMW Financial Services right now for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its buy rate lease money factor and residual value should be .00100 and 57%, respectively.

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jaygil · September 2005

Any price information on leasing a 530xi with 15K miles for 36 or 39 months?

Thanks.

t · September 2005

I am negotiating with a S CA dealer on the 2005 545i. He is quoting me $800/ month +tax with $2500 down for 36 Months with 10K miles.

How does this compare to the info you posted. I am not familiar with the terms 'buy rate lease money factor", or how the residual factor plays into the monthly payment calcs

thanks

540dude · September 2005

That is an absolute ripoff. Run, don't walk from the crooks. That is a good $200 more per month that you should pay--especially with 10K miles and a $2500 cap cost reduction.

t · September 2005

Thanks for the heads up. I think the $2500 is the drive off amount, so it includes the 1st month payment. I went to Shelley BMW Buena Park

Can you suggest any good dealers in the Long Beach area?

Thanks

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Hi jaygil. I can give you an idea of what this car's current lease program is like. If you were to lease a 2006 BMW 530xi through BMW Financial Services for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its buy rate lease money factor and residual value should be .00195 and 60%, respectively. If you provide me with the full MSRP and an approximate selling price for the exact car that you are interested in, I can calculate a lease payment on it for you.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Hi t&csteve. It sounds to me as though you have never leased before. if you are indeed new to the world of leasing, you definitely should check out the following informative articles that are available here at Edmunds.com prior to visiting any dealers: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car and Calculate Your Own Lease Payment.

You never mentioned the selling price or MSRP of the car that you are interested in leasing. These are important numbers for you as a consumer to know for two reasons. First, the selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash for them. Without knowing this car's selling price in relation to its MSRP you don't know how much of a discount you are getting on it. The second reason is that one needs the selling price and MSRP, including the destination charge, of a vehicle to calculate its lease payment. I would be more than happy to give you my opinion of this deal if you let me know what these numbers are.

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540dude · September 2005

Carman is correct. The most common mistake that newbies to leasing make is to negotiate the monthly payment. That is a recipe for getting ripped off by the "stealer."

Never enter into a lease without knowing the total capitalized cost of the lease, the money factor and the residual. These three things determine the lease price.

bimmerbuyer · September 2005

I'd like some help verifying some numbers for an '05 545 lease. The dealer is quoting:

59% resid (12k miles/36 mos)
.0014 MF
$825 Acquisition fee

I believe the residual is correct, but isn't the current MF supposed to be .001? They tried to mark it up when I leased my 330 a couple years ago. I called them on it and they gave me the book value for MF back then. So I'm confident I can do that again so long as I can substantiate the current values.

I have zero information on the Acquisition, but this feels high to me. Any way out of the Acquisition fees? Also, I didn't see any disposition -- and can't recall if BMW does that.

I'm going to aim for $1000 over invoice. I think that's realistic given the phase out of the 545 -- what's been the experience of buyers over the last couple months?

Any other incentives or programs I could leverage here?

The dealer seems to think that if I wait until winter to order a 2006 530i with lots of options that I'll be in the same ballpark payment wise, so it's a better deal to step up for the 545 now for a nominal amount. Any opinions on this?

MSRP on the car I want is $59,520 and CapCost is $54,390. Using MF .001 and Resid of 59%, I come up with $715.50/mo. Is that right? And how does the acquisition affect it if I roll it in? Does it go into both the MSRP and CapCost figures?

Thanks for any and all feedback!

kyfdx · September 2005

1) Residual is correct (dealer can't change this, anyway)

2) Base MF is .0010... your dealer is marking it up the maximum

3) Base acq.fee is $625.. again, your dealer marking up the maximum.

4) Your calculation is incorrect.. given your figures, the payment would be $625/mo. + tax... If you roll in $625 for an acq.fee, then the payment would be $643/mo. + tax..

If you use .0014 for the MF and roll in $825 for the acq.fee, then the payment would be $685/mo.+ tax..

$54,390 would be a great selling price, if you can actually get it..

regards,
kyfdx
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bimmerbuyer · September 2005

Thanks, Kyfdx. Actually, I may have specified some wrong numbers above. Could you help me calculate the monthly using the following:

MSRP $59,520
Invoice $54,390
Negotiated price of vehicle & optoins $55,390 or $55,890 (either $1000 or $1500 over invoice - which I'm willing to negotiate to)

MF .001
Resid 59%
36mos / 36k miles
Acquisition $625 (rolled in to lease)
6.5% state tax
No cap cost reduction

And a question on the acquisition. When you roll it in for calcuation purposes, do you add it to both the MSRP and the purchase price, or just the purchase price?

Thank you very much!

kyfdx · September 2005

$55,390 selling price.. base MF.. payment $654/mo. + tax
w/$625 acq.fee rolled in... $672/mo. + tax

$55,890 selling price.. base MF.. payment $668/mo. + tax
w/$625 acq.fee rolled in.. $686/mo. + tax

The acquisition fee is either paid upfront or rolled into the CAP cost.. It has no effect on the MSRP.

Each state may have it's own method of calculating sales tax on auto leases... Some just charge it on the monthly payment.. If that is the case in your state, then it is a simple calculation..

regards,
kyfdx
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bimmerbuyer · September 2005

thanks again for your timely response. On my way to the dealer now!

kevhollywood · September 2005

Hey Car Man.

I will be leasing a 2006 530i with an MSRP of $57,990 and purchase price of $54,495. The total drive offs will be $5301 (including $3000 down payment). The money factor is .00240 and the residual is 60%. It's a 36 month lease with 15,000 miles per year. The payments, including tax, are $727.26. The money factor seems a bit high to me. Can I do better?

Thanks.

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Hi bimmerbuyer. The lease money factor that you were quoted to lease this car is a little high. BMW Financial Services' current buy rate lease money factor for the 2005 545i is only .00100 for leases up to 42 months in length with the payment of a security deposit. BMW FS' base lease acquisition fee is currently only $625, so it looks as though this dealer is trying to mark that up on you as well. I believe that BMW FS charges a $350 disposition fee, but it will waive it for returning lessees.

On the car that you are interested in, a 2005 BMW 545i with an MSRP of $59,520 and a capitalized cost of $54,390, using a money factor of .00100 and a residual value of 59%, I come up with a zero down, pre-tax monthly payment of around $625. Adding a $625 acquisition fee to this cap cost would increase the payment to around $643.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Hello kevhollywood. The first thing that I noticed about your lease is the large down payment that you plan on making. I always advise consumers against making any sort of down payment when leasing. I do so for two main reasons. The first is if your vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen during your lease, your insurance company pays off the bank that you were leasing it through and your down payment essentially disappears. The second main reason is that down payments on leased vehicles do nothing to reduce their lease-end purchase prices. So your lease-end purchase option price for your 530i would be exactly the same, regardless of whether you had put $3,000 down, or had made absolutely no down payment at all.

Another problem that I have with this deal is that the money factor that you are being charged on this car is way too high. BMW Financial Services' current buy rate lease money factor on the 2006 530i is only .00175. This means that the dealer that you are working with is marking-up your car's money factor to add additional back-end profit to your deal. This sort of practice is fairly common amongst BMW dealers, but usually can be avoided by comparison shopping or confronting the dealer that you are working with with your vehicle's actual buy rate. Using BMW's actual base lease program for this car and the prices that you provided in your post, an MSRP of $57,990 and selling price of $54,495, I come up with a 36 month, 15,000 miles per year zero down, pre-tax monthly payment of around $704.

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kevhollywood · September 2005

Thank you so much Car Man. This information is EXTREMELY helpful. I nearly got ripped off!

alzadol · September 2005

I am looking at a lease on a black on black 545 with...

Sport Pkg
Premium Sound
Cold Weather Pkg
Auto trans.
Sat Radio
Heated Rear Seats
Sun shades

The dealer is telling me that although the 545 is an outgoing model... that demand is still very high... also the supply is now very limited. With that in mind, what type of amount off of MSRP (around 65k) should I try and negotiate? Based on above messages... I will definitely be sure to get the .0010 money factor. What monthly payment should I be looking at if I can negotiate down to something like 62k)? I am in So.Cal. Thanks!

540dude · September 2005

I know people who have recently gotten the 545 for about $1500 over invoice. Your dealer is full of crap and is trying to bamboozle you into overpaying. If I were in your shoes, I would call sales manangers at all area dealerships and offer something in the vicinity of $1500 over invoice. I guarantee you, they will sell it to you at that price. The key is to talk to multiple dealers. If you somewhat cannot get into that price range, try dealers who is not in So. Cal. I live in the NYC area and, to save $$, I have sometimes leased cars from dealers outside of the NYC metro area, such as in Central Pennsylvania. Well worth the extra drive if you can save big $$.

Also, you do not need to go into the dealership to negotiate the deal. I have done all of the negotiations and paperwork via phone and email. Being inside the dealership gives them the advantage over it and the negotiations then occur in more of a pressure cooker environment. The phone and email keep things fairer and at arms length.

kevhollywood · September 2005

Car_man, my dealer is alleging that .00175 base rate is only available to returning BMW lessees and that the buy rate for my lease will actually be .00190. Do you know if this true?

Thanks.

kyfdx · September 2005

It seems as though your dealer is bumping up your money factor the required .00015, in lieu of you making a security deposit.. Some returning lessees aren't required to make a security deposit, so he is somewhat correct in the way he worded it....

However, if you make a security deposit (your payment rounded up to the next $50 increment), then you can get the same base rate... If you don't make a security deposit, then the base rate is indeed .00190

regards,
kyfdx
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alzadol · September 2005

Thanks for the info 540dude. The dealer has come down to $2500 over invoice... for now. Additionally, the .0010 money factor is only for returning customers... unless you put down a security deposit. The thing is... they are telling me that they have to actually trade for this car from another dealier in central Cali... and that they will incur shipping expenses. Is it feasible to think that a loaded 545 black on black is no longer available in LA? Seems strange to me that there are not at least a few left. I have called a few dealers though... have only found one... and it did not have the sport package I definitely want.

540dude · September 2005

Well you have made some progress but $1500 over invoice is the target. If I were you, I would call Sales Managers at dealers all over the state. You'll get your price. Try dealers outside of car-crazy So. Cal., where demand for the 545 is highest.

cmybimmergo · September 2005

"they are telling me that they have to actually trade for this car from another dealier in central Cali... and that they will incur shipping expenses. Is it feasible to think that a loaded 545 black on black is no longer available in LA?"

It's certainly possible, but dealer exchanges happen all the time. And it's no big deal...someone from Dealer A gets in the car and drives it to Dealer B, trades for the desired car (with a check for any price differential), and then drives back to the original dealership. I did a few for extra $$$ when I was in college (what fun to drive brand new Audis!), but trust me, the expenses are negligible.

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

You're very welcome, kevhollywood. I'm glad that I was able to help you out.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

HI alzadol. I am not personally all that familiar with what the market is like for the 2005 BMW 545i right now, but you may be able to get an idea of how much you should pay for this car by visiting the following discussion: "BMW 5-Series: Prices Paid & Buying Experience". Once you have an idea of what you should pay for this car, feel free to stop back and I will be happy to estimate what your lease payment should be like on it for you.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Hey kevhollywood. What your dealer said is sort of true, but not exactly. BMW Financial Services will waive its lease security deposit requirement for returning lessees. As a non-returning lessee, you have to pay a security deposit equivalent to your vehicle's monthly payment rounded up to the nearest $50 to get the .00175 factor. If you want your car's deposit waived, its money factor will be .00015 higher.

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kevhollywood · September 2005

Thanks for the info Car_man. One more question for you (well, actually, 2). Do you know the respective residual rates on a 2006 530i for a 36 month lease at either 18K miles/year or 20K miles/year?

Thanks.

jpl101 · September 2005

My 94 325i has seen better days and on its way to junkyard. I have been looking for a 'deal' and open to either buying or leasing any 00 and up used 5 series.
I just talk to a guy who is trying to get out of his 03 525i lease. Apparently, he put 7K down to keep the monthly to $399. The car is a base model, 5 speed, Titanium Silver and has 175xx miles. The lease allows only 10k/yr and expires in Jan'07.
Here is the dilemma: I like the fact that both lease payment and mileage are really low and the car will be under warranty throughout the duration if I were to assume his lease. Bad part: He supposedly got hit on the left rear door and BMW put a brand new door for him. I'm worried if there had been any structural damage. There is a pair of very very tiny (but visible) dings from other peoples' doors on the front passenger door. It is only a base model.

The payoff on the car, right now, is $288xxx - which I think, is over the real market value especially considering the accident showing up in Carfax report.

Initially, I thought it was a great opportunity - I didn't have to put any down payment (other than $450 to BMW leasing to transfer).. but now I'm not too sure.

Any help/input is highly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

kyfdx · September 2005

That is a pretty good deal, if you are just going to lease the car, and then turn it in at the end of the term.... Assuming you can stay under the mileage requirements...

But, if the payoff is almost $29K right now, that is not a car that you want to purchase.... even after 15 more payments, the payoff will be way more than it is worth...

So, if you want to drive it until the end of lease, go for it... But, if this is a car you want to own long term, the price is too high..

regards,
kyfdx
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jpl101 · September 2005

Kyfdx, Thank you for your advice. I think I misspoke when I said the pay off is about $29k..its actually $24858 as of 10/13/05. Is it still pretty bad of deal to buy it (I'm actually partial to leasing)?
Also, BMW said they cant do anything to renegotiate the mileage/yr term..but they have something called 'mid term mileage negotiation'. One must have at least 9 more payments remaining to participate in that program..it reduces per mile cost to $ 0.16 from $0.20.
What is your take on that..? Thank you.

kyfdx · September 2005

Well... $4000 makes a big difference...

How many more miles are you going to need? I am familiar with the mid-term mileage adjustment... It isn't a bad deal, as long as you don't buy any more miles than you will use....

At that price, I'd take a chance on it.... start out leasing... take it to the end of the term and see what happens.... It may be a decent buy at that time..

The seller should be able to tell you the residual value at end of lease.. I'd be very interested in knowing what that is..

regards,
kyfdx
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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2005

You're welcome kevhollywood. 15,000 miles per year is the highest mileage allowance that BMW Financial Services publishes residual values for. If you need to drive more than that you will have to purchase additional miles on a per-mile basis. It is less expensive to do so at lease signing than it is to wait until lease-end and have to pay an excess mileage penalty.

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drtravel · October 2005

Need to know the residual and money factor for 12K and 15K per year - 3 years.

Thank you

dar63 · October 2005

Good Morning Car_man,

I am in the middle of negotiating my 4th BMW-and need some help determining the best deal. This may get a little long-but would appreciate your advice.

I have dealt with the same RI dealership for the prior 3, and have returned for the 4th time. I currently have a 42 month lease, 12,000 mile for a 2002 525it-which I pay $650 a month (including a 7% tax) is coming to end. The car is in great shape-however, it has 55,500 miles-and exceeds my mileage allotment. The car has a 23,935 residual value-and the salesman is telling me that the car can not be re-certified by BMW (a fact that I checked with BMW-and is correct) and disqualifies me from a program by which BMW will payoff the last 3 payments of the car. So he is going to give me a deal of a life time-take me out of my station wagon-which he claims has no resale value for BMW dealership and put me into a brand new 2006 525ix Sedan -12,000 miles. One more note-I have 5 more payments of $650

Sales Price $48,720
Fees 1,910 (Doc fee $75, Gov't fees $195, 1st payment $777 and acq fee $800)
downpayment 2,500
MF .002
residual 62% 30,206
Trade #1 20,000
Payoff 23,124
Payment 777 (including 7% RI Tax)

He has financed my fees-but I would like to pay cash for me fees. Does this all sound reasonable?? In addition, I went in asking for a 530xi--was told there is very little difference between a 525xi and 530xi-is that true??

What facts would I need to know for negotiating a 530xi (i.e. MF, residual)-

bdr127 · October 2005

In addition, I went in asking for a 530xi--was told there is very little difference between a 525xi and 530xi-is that true??

The biggest difference is the engine.... Same displacement, but 525 makes 215hp, 530 makes 255. Other differences: 530 comes standard with xenons, 18" wheels, and lumbar support. You need to upgrade to get these things on the 525. Of course, the starting base price is a difference for $4300, too.

rockymtn_e36 · October 2005

Hi,

I apologize in advance for this being a bit long winded...

I'm currently looking at leasing a new 530xi. MSRP on the vehicle is $54,940, and the dealer has quoted me a sales price of $53,300 after his so called "good customer discount". I've purchased used from this dealer and have referred 3 new customers to my sales person.

After reading several of these posts it seems I can negotiate a couple of things including the money factor...my current quoted rate is .00150, I have a tax of 4.9% and an acq. fee of $725. Residual is quoted at .62. Money down including first payment is 1476.10 and my monthly payment including tax would be $726.10.

I was ready to "pull the trigger" until I found this forum. This number seems a bit high after reading some of the deals folks are getting.

What is the next step for me to take in negotiating with the dealer? Is it best for me to start with negotiating the sales price? Seems to me that the invoice price with my options should be somewhere around $52,000.

Any help is appreciated!

tcoz · October 2005

I'm assuming you're talking about a 36 mo lease. New BMWFS buy-in rate for October on that car is .00140 so the dealer is marking it up just a little, but still fair. 36 month residual, however is 60% so if you're getting 62%, you're in effect getting another $1100 off the car on your lease. The discount at $1600 off isn't any great shakes, but if you add the additional $1100 from the better residual, it's not too bad.

All in all, a pretty good deal, although if you have any thoughts of buying the car at lease end, you'll be giving that extra $1100 back to them. Also, the dealer "buy rate" on the acq. fee is $625 and many dealers charge $825, so $725 is ok.

You might be able to pick a few hundred more up, but it might not be worth the effort either.

If you "pull the trigger" be sure they install the new software update which is now out. It takes care of a couple of the issues.

Good luck

breterst · October 2005

Here goes, I have been looking for the same car and doing some research but have not pulled the trigger. 36 month lease MF .0014 , residual %63 for 10000miles. Your target should be $1000 over invoice but $1500 would still be fair ,IMO. This should be the deal you present to the dealerships
Msrp $ 54940 Purchase $51,380 around $1000 over invoice
lease payment per month including tax $614.88
Down 0$ , Deposit $615 ... Due at signing acq fee $625 , first months payment plus deposit.
or
msrp $54940 purchase $51,880 around $1500 over invoice
lease payment per month including tax $630.19
Down 0$ , Deposit $630 ... Due at signing acq fee $625 , first months payment plus deposit.

that deal 0f $726 is not even close
you can also stack deposits to lower the MF, you can lower your payment by around $25 per month and you get the extra depoists back at the end of the lease.

rockymtn_e36 · October 2005

Thanks all for the info... breterst, what do you mean by stacking the deposits?

breterst · October 2005

Stacking deposits is BMW holding extra monthly payments during your lease , it's then refunded at the end of the lease minus extra miles and excess wear and tear . In return for BMW holding your money (reduce BMW's risk) you get a reduction in the MF by .00005 per deposit. So if you leave 5 stacked deposits the MF goes from .0014 to .00115 or % rate from 3.36 to 2.76.

bdr127 · October 2005

36 month residual, however is 60% so if you're getting 62%, you're in effect getting another $1100 off the car on your lease.

Residuals are set by the financial institution and are not negotiable.... The 2% difference is most likely 12k miles/year as opposed to the 60% for 15k.

tcoz · October 2005

You're right...my mistake.

aimingfor2018 · October 2005

I'm confused... Are you getting 6% off of the MSRP then a the lease is factored at .0014?
Here is my quote on a pre-October 1 car on the lot: 53,120 MSRP + Destination charge 695 = 53,815. Plus
1 month security of $800
Tax title handiling 140
Paperwork 150
1st months rent X

24 mo @ 15,000 miles 823 + 7% tax 69% residual
30 mo @ 15,000 750 + 7% tax 65% residual
36 mo @ 15000 721 + 7% tax 60% residual

aimingfor2018 · October 2005

Follow up to 50... should the dealer have flex in that price?

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