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Chrysler Town & Country Lease Questions

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Comments

  • geeves229geeves229 Member Posts: 9
    Thanks for the info. It never ends with the suprises.... I have two dealerships telling me that they can do a money factor of .00087. I thought the money factor is suppose to be .00140. I would not be complaining if I could get a lower interest rate, but it is not consistant. Does anyone know if the .00087 money factor is available, or are they just using it to lure people into the dealership???? I am looking to lease 3 years/ 12k a year.
  • jensen3jensen3 Member Posts: 42
    I met yesterday with my local dealership here in South Dakota. He offered me a lease for $390/month (10,500/miles/year) for an 08 T&C Signatures Series with a sticker of $32,760.

    PLEASE HELP!
  • fredm6fredm6 Member Posts: 51
    It is really hard to tell now since the $2.99 gas deal has been made part of the incentives. I leased in March for $394 per month , 12,000 miles per year for 36 months, with about $700 up front which included the first months payment, taxes on the rebate (state) and doc fees. I have seen better deals than mine on this forum.

    How much are you paying at delivery? Are you getting the $2.99 gas deal for 36 months. What rebates are you getting? I feel that you should get at least 12,000 miles per year. Does your payment include taxes?

    Do you have a trade?? I would hold out for a better deal. If you take the gas deal you will get less in rebate. Let us know what you do.
  • jensen3jensen3 Member Posts: 42
    Fred, thanks for the feedback. I wasn't getting the gas deal... I did go back today and get more specifics from them and got a slightly better offer. Here is my deal they are offering:
    MSRP: $32,485 (but, it's that signature series with the DVD discount, so MSRP is really $32,760 - DOES THIS MATTER?)
    They will knock off $2,500.
    Plus $2,500 incentive (the website shows an additional $1,000 incentive for leases), BUT they said it didn't apply to me because I'm not a returning lessee... I think it should apply - CAN ANYONE TELL ME IF IT SHOULD?
    Selling price: $27,760
    Money Factor: .0014
    $700 Aquisition Fee built into financing (which he said includes the gap insurance)
    Trade: $10,500 with $10372 owing
    36 months - 10,500 miles/year
    Monthly payment: $365.44
    First Payment: $414.44 (includes $49 doc fee) I'll pay my tax/license separately.

    PS - I know I'm fine with 10,500 miles because my current van (4 years old this week) has just 38,000 on it. But, if I want 12,000 miles, the payment will only increase about $10/month.

    The incentives end on Monday... should I wait for better incentives? I know the price is as low as they will go because this is one of those "best price on the window" dealerships.
  • fredm6fredm6 Member Posts: 51
    This deal sounds better and I would probably go for it. You definitely want the Signature Edition (New Day Package). That is worth $1500 and you also get some extras that you do not get with the L package such as remote start and that deluxe center console which slides back. . You also get the steering wheel controls for the information center , otherwise you have to reach through the steering wheel and push something to change that information. I also forgot that the low tire pressure sensor that comes with the Walter P package give you the inflation for each tire rather than just an icon showing low tire pressure. All of these things in addition to the two DVD screens make that Signature Edition package well worth it. I really can not see anyone getting a new T&C without this package.

    Your up front money is not bad at all and I found out recently that everybody pays the $700 acquisition fee. My daughter just leased a Honda CRV and she had to pay it. It is part of the financing deal.

    The 10,500 miles sounds fine. I turned in my 05 with about 3,000 miles I did not use. Since you have a trade this is probably the best deal you may get. Who knows? I went to six dealers and at the time it was the best deal I could get. I leased in March and April 1 the incentives were not as good. As for the $1,000 that you think you should get, they call that owner loyalty for those who are now driving a Chrysler product. My lease on my 05 T&C was up.

    At that time they had $1,000 conquest cash for someone trading in another brand . Check and see if that is still available. To be sure call the Chrysler Rebate Center or ask your dealer to show you the rebate sheet for May. I listed the phone number for the Chrysler Rebate Center in a previous post. Sorry I do not have it with me right now.

    Good luck. I think you will like the new T&C. Several features are much improved. I like the backup camera and the touch screen for radio. I had to get used to the new 6 speed transmission, but now I like it. I have the 3.8 liter engine. It would have been nice if they would offer the 4.0 in the Touring instead of just the Limited. I just couldn't see the extra thousands to get that. The Touring now has many features that were formerly only in the Limited.

    Let us know how you did and if you finally took the deal. Hope this has been of some help.
  • jensen3jensen3 Member Posts: 42
    One more question... I was looking for that rebate phone number and see you mentioned the coupon in the Chrysler magazine... I had completely forgotten that I received that coupon. I just searched and found it - do you think they will accept that along with the $2,500 bonus cash?
  • fredm6fredm6 Member Posts: 51
    I did not use the coupon and do not remember all the details. I doubt that you can use it with the other rebate, but you can always try. If they still offer conquest cash, you should qualify for that. As I have said in earlier posts, the rebates and incentives are a moving target. Every dealer has the current rebate sheet listing all the rebates and incentives. These vary by model and also purchase or lease. Good luck. Do your homework and call Chrysler Rebate Center.
  • greener1greener1 Member Posts: 37
    jusr picked up my new signature walter p from a one price dealership on friday, and i did use my $750 bonus chrysler coupon in their quarterly magazine on top of all the other incentives, mainly a $500 bonus lease offer and $2500 chrysler rebate and the dealer had a private $200 offer on any chrysler purchase plus i had a $1,000 drive off cost which included first months lease payment, doc fees, new plates, etc., i am a senior citizen, have a 2005 T&C LX and feel like i am moving up so much it will take me the 36 months to learn how to use and work all the new toys inside this thing, i am keeping my 05 0 percent interest van, as it is paid off if i die early and wife will at least have one paid up unit, plus the lease will also be paid up until end date for same reason, so she can return with no penalty at end of lease, by the way my payment is $366.00 and this is my first time leasing so dont know if it is good or not, but love the fact that i usually change cars every 3 to 5 years and this way only have to pay taxes on my payment, etc., absolutely love this van, and i have a daughter who has 2 kids and called it a mommy car, until she saw it, she traded her Montana in for a Yukon SUV and it has half the room she used to have, she wishes now she would have gotten the chrysler for gas reasons, looks, and room, nuf said
  • jensen3jensen3 Member Posts: 42
    Greener,

    I'm going to wait until tomorrow to make any decisions because I want to call the Chrysler incentive center (only open M-F) to see if I can get that $1,000 bonus lease offer - the internet shows it should be available for my area, but my dealership doesn't show it - they even showed me their incentive sheet and it wasn't there. Did you have to pay a $700 aquisition fee and do you have the $425 disposition fee on your contract? My dealership told me those were Chrysler Financial fees that were not negotiable. Did your $1,000 down include tax and license?

    I'm really loving all the feedback here - Thanks everyone!
  • greener1greener1 Member Posts: 37
    i did have the $700 acquisition fee and the $425 return fee, but i felt that the $500 new lease customer offer plus the dealer offer of $200 to be used by june 2 paid for my acquisition fee, and the $1,000 drive off included taxes for the rebates and promotions being offered and did include title and transfer plate fees, i figure that with my payment i am possible not even paying what the car actually depreciates in the 36 months, then one can just lease another new one, a lot of the features on the signature series are from the limited model and this is one beautiful van, very classy interior, aircraft interior lighting and very feature oriented,
  • fredm6fredm6 Member Posts: 51
    Hi greener1
    I too am a senior citizen and really love my new 08 T&C. I think you got a great deal. I agree with you that the 08 has a lot of features that will take me some time to learn. I had an 05 T&C Touring and the lease was up in April. I leased my new one in March and did not turn in the 05 until the end of April. My wife and I both lease and turn over every 3 years. I used to purchase, but like not having any expense for repair etc.
    Years ago I used to put 100,000 or more on my station wagons and then they were not worth anything at trade in time. When you keep them 5 years now you really don't have much equity left and you have probably had to buy new tires and do some other repair not covered my the warranty. Glad you like the new 08. Enjoy it.
  • longinotlonginot Member Posts: 11
    My wife and I are within 15 days of buying our 08 T&C Limited. The dealer just called with a new (higher) money factor. It is pushing the payment higher than we want. Both my wife and I have FICOs over 800. To those in the know, what should a current grade A Money factor be through Chrysler Financial. Also, we are in California. Besides the $2500, what other rebates might apply to us ie, are available to CA residents.

    Joe :confuse:
  • jensen3jensen3 Member Posts: 42
    I used the Chrysler Financial website yesterday to figure the new money factor and it appeared to me to me to be about .00107 or .00108. It's lower, but not nearly enough to compensate for the $1000 bonus money that went away. I'm just sick about it because the salesman I was working with assured me that the deals would stay the same or get better... I guess he was wrong.
  • jensen3jensen3 Member Posts: 42
    Wanted to let you know right away. My salesman just called and he said he can get me a .00068 money factor... I'm going to crunch the numbers again, but I think that will work out almost the same as the $1000 bonus cash.
  • longinotlonginot Member Posts: 11
    Where are you getting this factor from and how can I get some of that action? My dealer has me stuck on a 2.68% equivalent (.00112) and the day of purchase is approaching. Is there a Chrysler Financial site that outlines the factors? Also I have heard of an incentives telephone # but I have never see the number. Does anyone out there have it? I would also love to "borrow" a $750.00 magazine coupon if there is someone out there willing to part with one. Let me know.

    Joe
  • fredm6fredm6 Member Posts: 51
    Hi longinot
    I do not have the number with me at present. Look for some of my posts back in March where I listed it. You could call the regular Chrysler number and ask them for the rebate center phone number. You might also try GOOGLE and put in Chrysler Rebate Center.
    I will look for my Chrysler Magazine and see I can find the $750 coupon and let you know. Time is short since I am leaving for Egypt on Saturday morning. Good luck.
  • longinotlonginot Member Posts: 11
    All of your help is greatly appreciated!!!

    Joe
  • greener1greener1 Member Posts: 37
    one cannot get this $750 coupon transferred as it comes in the chrysler magazine with that persons name on it and it is not transferrable only to household members with proof of drivers license, etc. that was a deal pushover for me and my letter from the dealer had a note in it saying only a select few, yah right, had received this offer and he was adding an additional $200 coupon to the offer to get people in to look at the vans, he is one of those so called one price dealers, and i have dealt with him before and his one prices are very competitive with the haggler dealers and i have felt i trusted this dealer more because of not having to go back and get different figures every time
  • jensen3jensen3 Member Posts: 42
    The coupons are not transferable, but 1-800-227-0757 is the number for the rebate center. When you call them, ask them about the coupon. They will look up your address and tell you if one was issued to you. If there was, they will give you the number and you can use it - you don't need the paper coupon if you have this number.

    I'd like to hear from others what they are getting for a current money factor.
  • hooch68hooch68 Member Posts: 3
    The $750 coupon code can also be found on cafemom.com or aaa.com.
    A T&C ad is randomly generated when you visit the sites and you can click to register for the coupon. I found the ad on cafemom.com https://wsprod.bbdodetroit.com/esurvey11/2008CafeMomLogin.jsp?&mpparm=cafemom&PI- D=cafemom&adid=cafemom
    but the link didn't work...it gave me an error message (something wrong with the server) hopefully it will be back up again.
    When I tried aaa.com, I never came across the ad.
    The $750 cannot be combined with lease loyalty or conquest bonus cash.
    BTW, the Chrysler rebate center hotline told me if you come across a coupon after you purchase a vehicle you can call and they can try to get it to work retroactively. (not sure how successful that is)
  • jpappasjpappas Member Posts: 16
    CafeMom link worked for me. I printed my certificate. Thanks for sending that!!!
  • hooch68hooch68 Member Posts: 3
    Yay, it finally worked for me...so now I have a total of $4250 in rebates!

    I think we're gonna finalize our lease tomorrow.
    Have never leased before, so I'm a little nervous....but we always trade in our cars every 4 years or so and we only put on about 10K miles per year so it seems like a good option.

    I'm getting .59 residual with .00185 rate...but I'm seeing others with lower figures. My dealer told me the numbers really aren't negotiable. Is that true?

    We are getting the signature pkg with sat. tv: MSRP $34,555- List price $33,030- sale price $29,857- minus rebates ($4250) for a final price of $25,607.
  • hooch68hooch68 Member Posts: 3
    forgot to add...27 months and 10,500 miles/yr.
  • jpappasjpappas Member Posts: 16
    Hooch,

    That's true, the residual and money factor are set by the finance company( in this case Chrysler Financial). The money factor can change based on your credit worthiness. I do not have the money factor and residual info in front of me. I have been looking at 27 mo 12K miles. I will likely vist my dealer in the next couple of days to get a full breakdown. Till now I have been doing everything over email.
  • beirneadbeirnead Member Posts: 5
    Does anyone know the current money factor being used on a Signature Series for 27 and 36 months? I'll be leasing the vehicle on Saturday and want to make sure I'm getting the best rate. Thanks!
  • beirneadbeirnead Member Posts: 5
    My dealer in Wisconsin is giving me a money factor of .00151 for a 27 month lease of a Signature Series. I've seen mention of the money factor being as low as .00067 on these message boards. Does anyone have any idea how I can get the .00067? I'm going in to sign the lease tomorrow so any information would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks!
  • jensen3jensen3 Member Posts: 42
    I'm in South Dakota and I was told I was getting a money factor of .00068 - which is about what I figured when I crunched the numbers backwards. Anyway, they initially gave me a higher money factor, but then I came here and found out people were getting lower numbers for Tier 1 credit... so, I went back to my dealer and asked what was wrong with my credit that I didn't qualify for Tier 1? That brought them around.
  • longinotlonginot Member Posts: 11
    Could you outline the full terms of your lease? I am just about to finalize the deal. Was yours 24,27 or 36 mo? What was residual? Limited or touring etc.

    Thanks,

    Joe
  • marisakay123marisakay123 Member Posts: 4
    I have been really researching for a few weeks.....my husband and I really want to lease a new 2008 TC..it is a touring w this package that we really want:

    ENTERTAINMENT GROUP #2 -inc: MyGig multimedia system ParkView rear back-up camera single disc DVD player 2nd & 3rd row 8" video screen video remote control wireless headphones

    the msrp says: 31180

    the sale price they are giving us is: 29617

    and the with rebates: the sale price is 26911

    this does not seem like a very good deal???? we say they need to come down off the sticker price of 29617, but they wont..they say it is as low as they can go??? I do not believe this when I see peopel getting thousenads off of MSRP....he is a young kid that does not know much and whenever I ask questions he has to go ask the "other guy" getting sick of this!!!!!

    also the quote is then 409.70/mo w 1000 down.

    this si for 12000miles/36 months

    the money factor is .00148 (but this is a quote for top tier) I have ready top tier should be .00077???

    also the residual they stated is 15,960

    this includes 700 acquisition fee and he "thinks" no security deposit..lol

    tell me what all you think of this...ps this is the dealership that everyone raves about but I am thinking no????

    do I go onto the next chrysler lot?? or keep haggling w them?
  • fredm6fredm6 Member Posts: 51
    I did my lease deal in March and am not up to date on the deals now. The $1,000 down and $409 a month sounds hight to me. What rebates and incentives are you receiving? Are you getting the Walter P Chrysler edition with (New Day Package), which gives you the $1525 DVD package free and also several other free things such as better console, remote start and controls on steering wheel. Check this out to see if there are any Walter P editions still out there. I would not buy or lease without getting this package. Also call the rebate center hotline to get the current incentives. Good luck.
  • marisakay123marisakay123 Member Posts: 4
    hi thanks so mch..no this is not that walter package...how do I find one of those? this is just a touring w dual dvd monitors and the touch screen radio...no navigation..no leather//seems high to me too.....
  • jensen3jensen3 Member Posts: 42
    Sorry, I missed this message... my terms were:
    36 mo lease
    10,500 miles/year
    T&C Touring Signature Series Inferno Red
    (only extra beyond Sig package is the paint $225 and the engine block heater $35)
    Sticker $34,285
    Free DVD Discount $1,525
    Starting Price $32,760 (includes $770 destination)
    Dealer Discount $2,500
    Cash Back $2,500
    Coupon $750
    Final Cost $27,010
    plus $700 aquisition fee
    51% Residual = $17,485
    .000068 money factor
    Trade ('05 T&C) $10,500 - owing $10,372
    No down (besides trade difference)
    $350 First Payment (includes $49 doc fee) + tax & license
    $311/month

    I think that's everything... I now know I could have done better and am a bit upset with the dealership, but it's a decent price and I LOVE the van.
  • jensen3jensen3 Member Posts: 42
    WAY TOO HIGH! Find yourself one of the Signature Series like I did and add leather seats for the same price. Your credit history will play into your price, but make them give you all the numbers... residual, money factor, trade, etc. Then come here and we'll help you figure exactly how much you are paying and whether it's the best deal.
  • fredm6fredm6 Member Posts: 51
    I agree that this is way too high. As tio finding a Walter P edition (sometimes called New Day Package) tell your dealer to search for one and also go on the Chrysler website and bring up dealers in your area and check their inventory. They were to produce 25% of there T&C's with Walter P package so there should be some out there. Get the Touring with Walter P and it will be very well equipped. It should have the backup camera and leather with the L package. Do not buy without getting this Walter P package. As i said in a previous post it has more than just the free DVD screens. Good luck
  • hp7434hp7434 Member Posts: 7
    went to cafemom and found the chrysler add, but when i followed the link it just to me to the chrysler.com website? Am I missing something.
  • lklein1lklein1 Member Posts: 24
    Does anyone know the money factor and residual for July on a Signature Touring for 24, 27 and 36 months. Tier 1 Credit. Thanks a bunch
  • trumpytrumpy Member Posts: 5
    Hi Guys -

    We are in the market for a mini van and are in the process of shopping. I think it has been discussed on this board but wasn't sure what the current info was - does someone happen to know what the current money factor is that Chrysler Financial is using for top tier credit? Also, what are the residuals for the different T&C models?

    Thanks!

    Trumpy
  • lklein1lklein1 Member Posts: 24
    I received this info on another board. Not the money factor I was hoping for.

    2008 Chrysler Town & Country Touring Signature
    24 Month – Residual 54% of MSRP – .00157 Base Rate
    36 Month – Residual 46% of MSRP – .00154 Base Rate
    48 Month – Residual 35% of MSRP – .00325 Base Rate

    Residuals posted are for 15K miles/year. Add 2% to Residual for 12k mi/yr and 3% for 10k mi/yr on all terms
  • sgallimoresgallimore Member Posts: 8
    ;) I just received the counteroffer to my offer to lease a 2008 T&C Touring. I would be a return leasee. My offer was between $325-$333 per month, MF .00014, Residual 48%, Selling Price $23,600 for 36 months, 12k/yr. He is coming back at $340.07. How does this compare to others out there?
  • lklein1lklein1 Member Posts: 24
    What othe fees are included in this and does this include taxes? With the info you are providing the lease payment without taxes is $287.41. So what is bringing that price up to $340.07
  • sgallimoresgallimore Member Posts: 8
    Hi, thanks much for the fast response. I need to make a decision by Monday or Tuesday.

    I'm looking at the sheet now to give all details.
    MF - 0.0014
    Res - 48% (amount - $12759.20)
    Cap Cost (after rebates) - $23,539
    36 mth
    base mthy payment - $323.88, tax $16.19 = $340.07
    MSRP - $28,665 (T&C Touring, no extras)

    How does this computer? I built a spreadsheet off the quotes the dealer was giving me. I was able to match the way the came up with pricing so I could play around with numbers.

    Steve
  • lklein1lklein1 Member Posts: 24
    Those numbers jive. Your first post said a mf of .00014.
  • sgallimoresgallimore Member Posts: 8
    Thanks, one too many "0". Does the monthly payment seem fair?
  • iamfrankiamfrank Member Posts: 16
    What is this world coming to when CHRYSLER doesn't give away their products?!

    The audacity of Chrysler for overtly trying to make money on their minivans!

    Tell me .... what is this world coming to?

    I have a 2006 T&C Touring; 12K year; 27 months with 0 down and $189/mo (with 6% tax) ... How could they expect me to jump to $304/mo for the same vehicle??

    I've had 4 Chrysler minivans of varying degrees of quality (or lack thereof) ... each time the price kept getting cheaper and the options more plentifull. Why are they ruining a good thing?

    They've made me a 'crack' addict to their minivans ... I'm going through withdrawal and I have 2 weeks left on this lease.... somebody help me!

    :sick:
  • dadamdadam Member Posts: 4
    please help me figure this out

    08 TC Touring Base 28, 210
    Customer Preferred M package 4,980
    Premium sound 795
    Swivel n Go 495
    Tow package 600
    Sunroof 895
    Power 3rd row 595
    My Gig GPS 1300
    Sirius Backseat tv 495
    Dest Charge 770

    total 39,135
    we get it for 32,000
    the lease is based on either 36 or 39 months 1000 upfront which is 1st month tax title payments $560 month.
    4% on a 36 5% on a 39

    the problem we are running into my wife HATES the light color grey int with blk ext. I am not driving a mini van without a sunroof. In order to get dark int and a sunroof we have to go with this m package which gives us stuff like a remote start 17' wheels Nav things we really don't care about.

    Is this a bad idea?
  • iamfrankiamfrank Member Posts: 16
    Here in De-toilet, Michigan, your best bet is a 27 month lease, HOWEVER, you are at the end of the model year for 08 and the residual values are not as good. You may be better off holding out for an '09. But what the heck do I know???
  • dadamdadam Member Posts: 4
    that is what I am thinking.

    We like the T&C for what it is. Another van. We are getting rid of a Sienna and thought about an MDX or Acadia but the lease on those is too high and our kids are only 4 & 6 so a van still makes sense.

    Anyhow I am not happy with the $560 payment, simply because they don't have the car we want and they can't locate it so they claim. We don't need an M class and are paying for things that we might enjoy but are overkill on a leased mini van.

    How do we extend our current lease? I will go month to month there if I feel the T&C will drop when the 09's come out. I can't imagine a lease rate on 09's being so high. We looked at a lot of SUV's crazy the price to lease those are so high with the demand not so good.
  • iamfrankiamfrank Member Posts: 16
    I've decided to extend my lease ... I will call Chrysler Finance ... they usually mark your lease up 50% per month to extend (or to encourage you into a new lease). I would rather extend my lease a month or two then be forced into a car I do not want (or a lease payment I'll be reminded of every month). I once owned an 05 (in 04) Chrysler T&C Touring and an 04 Toyota Sienna simultaneously. The Sienna drove like a Lexus and achieved 1/3rd better gas mileage than my T&C, but that was when Chrysler was using their old (but new for the model year) 4 Speed automatic. They are now using the jointly created (w/Generous Motors and Ford) 6 speed auto.

    The T&C's are made a 1/2 hour from here in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. Chrysler is closing the other plant near St. Louis shortly.

    I just checked my voice mail and the dealer is telling me "his boss" has told him to 'get rid of all T&C at all expense including losing money', I don't believe Chrysler and the dealer operate on deficets like the Federal Gov't .... I have a hard time believing he'll lose money ... but I am kind of a smart @$$ ... I always negotiate with a smile .... and since they'll consider all 'offers' , I am going to offer him $1.98/month; 27 mo; 15K per year ... that ought to bring in the manager right away!

    The best part is ... I don't care if I get a car .... I'll wait'em out.
  • fredm6fredm6 Member Posts: 51
    Hi dadam,
    I think you made a good decision not to lease. The monthly payment is way too high in my estimation. I believe that you could cut out some things and get a nicely equiped T&C. Do you really want the built in GPS for $1300. Buy a nice 4.3 inch Garmin, Tom Tom or Magellan for around $300 and save that $1000. I know you probably want to sun roof, but I had it in my last T&C and used it very little. Remember that the sun roof takes up some extra room in the ceiling and changes some things. Far be it from me to tell you what to buy, but that is my opinion. I also had GPS in my 05 and did not get it this time.
    Why don't you look for a Walter P Edition or New Day Package with the extras including the DVD (two screens) free, plus remote start, deluxe console and better yet the information system that operates from the steering wheel. The L package is much less than the M package. I got the L package with Walter P and mine is nicely equipped. I am paying $394 a month including the tax. I have seen better deals than what I got in March. Keep looking and dealing. I have Sirus back seat TV mainly because it was on the one they found for me in the color I wanted. It is really nice for my Grandkids and works well, although now only two channels. I realize that you may have a hard time finding a Walter P Edition with the other things you want such as tow and swivel seats and power third row seat. You might want to consider giving up the third row power seat, since it is not difficult to raise and lower the rear seats.

    Good luck.
  • dadamdadam Member Posts: 4
    I don't want a 3rd row power seat, or tow package. GPS have it now hardly ever use it and most newer cell phones have it anyhow mine does.

    What does the Walter P involve? My daughter is named after Walter P! (Payton)

    We want black. Tan leather is only in the limited in this color. Stupid. Dark grey works.
    Do want the tv's for the kids and the swivel and go.

    What was your down on the $394 payment? I am all about dropping a car payment below 4 bills if possible. The dealer actually had the balls to tell me to just put more down and my payment would drop. I guess some people are that stupid.
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