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Honda Pilot Lease Questions

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  • ny14337ny14337 Member Posts: 16
    Is this the EX-L, or just the base EX with cloth interior? I've been to Nardy in the past but I've been looking for the EX-L. Thanks!
  • underradarunderradar Member Posts: 8
    I am considering a 39-month lease of a 2009 Honda Pilot EX-L with all-wheel drive. Here is what I have been quoted from a dealer in Connecticut:

    39 months
    15,000 miles per annum
    $2500 up-front cash (includes fees, first month's payment and $1000 cap cost reduction)
    Dealer will include wood trim (supposedly a $495 upgrade) and will extend the warranty to 39 months/ 45k miles
    Total lease price $515 per month (including tax)

    Thanks in advance.
  • bigdadi118bigdadi118 Member Posts: 1,207
    2009 EXL 4x4 $378/mo with 0 down before tax, TT&L, acqu fee, dealer fee
    http://www.boch.com/bochhtml/bochhonda/pages/promotions.aspx
  • rdocrdoc Member Posts: 2
    Hi, first time poster deal signed today

    09 Pilot EX-L with rear dvd Grey with black leather

    money factor .00151 and 39 months

    32900 cost
    2000 down including all fees
    they thru in aftermarket bluetooth, and remote starter
    465/month including taxes.

    what do you guys think..
  • gregs2gregs2 Member Posts: 4
    It was an EX with cloth seats. Only non-standard option was remote start. Nardy had EX-Ls in stock and was willing to do a deal at $399/month with first month and tax down.
  • underradarunderradar Member Posts: 8
    Rdoc,

    Your deal looks better than mine does. Where is your dealer?
  • shamrock06shamrock06 Member Posts: 1
    I'm currently in a 2007 Honda Accord EXL Lease that is up in October but trying to get in a new Pilot EXL with RES prior to lease end. Dealership in NJ offered to pay balance on what I owe then would offer me EXL w/out Res at $1700 down with $500/month includes tax. Seems steep to me..was hoping to stay at 450. I know the payoff is much higher than what the car is worth but seems every dealership will take the Accord off my hands as long as I take a new pilot...thoughts?
  • rdocrdoc Member Posts: 2
    Underradar

    The dealer is in milford ct, really nice people. I probably could have gotten the cap cost total down to 31500 but i okay with it.

    rdoc
  • JM123JM123 Member Posts: 5
    bigdadi118, Thanks for posting - $378 with zero down, that is the best deal I have seen on the EX-L. I will be bringing this ad to my dealer...
  • cbklazcbklaz Member Posts: 3
    Car Man:
    I would like assistance / advice on negotiating the following lease deal in PA:

    MSRP: $35,865
    Sales Price: $31,400

    12,000 miles
    $498 / month
    Residual Value .49
    Money Factor: .00151
    No Money Down (just 1st mth's payment/tags)

    These #s do not seem to compare with previous listings, but I am not adept enough with the formula to figure out what is off. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated on how to move forward.

    P.S. Sorry for double post - not sure best place for this question...
  • joeyhalstedjoeyhalsted Member Posts: 5
    Does anyone now the new lease deals? It seems that the 1,500 dealer cash is still out there. Does anyone now the residuals for a Touring with RES and without RES? And the money factors for the month?
  • twbradfordtwbradford Member Posts: 2
    Current offers:

    http://automobiles.honda.com/current-offers.aspx
  • osyabender1osyabender1 Member Posts: 22
    Hello Car_Man and everyone.
    Can anyone post current (March) residuals and money factor for Pilot 4WD EX-L and Pilot 4WD Touring? Both for 12,000 miles.
    Thanks.
  • ebd4662ebd4662 Member Posts: 35
    When they are calculating a lease payment to included taxes how is that factored in to your monthly payment?

    Do they subtract the residual value from the sales price and then calculate the appropriate sales tax percentage and add it onto the sale price?
    (i.e - 31000-18000= 13000 , and , 13000 x 6%=780 so the sale price is now 31780 for lease calculation)
    OR

    Do they calculate the lease as normal and then calculate your sales tax based on the monthly payment
    (i.e- 475.00 monthly lease payment becomes 503.50 with 6% sales tax added on monthly? )

    Any help with understanding this is appreciated
  • golicgolic Member Posts: 714
    It all depends on what State you reside in. For most states the sales tax is calculated on the monthly payment amount.

    In other states, such as IL . The sales tax is calculated on the full purchase price and essentially become part of the gross capitalized cost.

    Let me know what State you live in.
  • ebd4662ebd4662 Member Posts: 35
    Thanks for the help golic........ I live in NY. I appreciate the info
  • ebd4662ebd4662 Member Posts: 35
    Can anyone advise what the residual value on a 2009 Pilot 4WD EXL w/ RES and did the money factor stay at .00151 for March?

    Also, is the residual value negotiable or does the finance compnay set it?

    Thanks for the help, I am closing in on my truck. Just want to make sure I have it all squared away.

    I currently have an offer from Academy Honda in Old Bridge, NJ for a
    2009 4WD EXL w/ RES for $509+ a month, including tax. 12k mi/36 months

    Sale Price: 32,694
    Residual .49
    MF .00151

    0 down payment (cap cost reduction)
    $1,531 due at signing includes:

    1st month payment $509
    Bank fee $595
    Document fee $199
    DMV $228

    Feed back is appreciated.
  • duffycougduffycoug Member Posts: 13
    I just leased from them in February....2009 EX 4WD, 15K/Year, $1,000 due at signing, $412/month.....so if you can figure out what the difference should be between the two models, you can use my deal as a gauge.
  • ebd4662ebd4662 Member Posts: 35
    duffycoug,
    Thanks alot for your feed back. Can you let me know if you were happy with the dealership?
  • duffycougduffycoug Member Posts: 13
    Loved that dealership...I will certainly be back for my next auto purchase/lease...they are 1st class all the way if you ask me. I worked with Dan Fisher.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Thanks bigal17. 15,000 miles per year is the highest mileage allowance that Honda Finance publishes residual values for. If you need to drive more than that, you will have to purchase additional miles on a per-mile basis. It is less expensive to do so at lease signing than it is to wait until the scheduled end of your lease and have to pay an excess mileage penalty.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi humorme201. Sorry to hear about the excess mileage and wear and tear charges that you are headed for. The best way to do this is to look at your penalties and your new lease separately. Find out what selling price the dealer is charging you for the new Pilot that you are interested in. Without this number it is difficult to tell how good a deal you are getting. Shoot for a selling price of at least $1,000 under dealer invoice (the $1,500 dealer cash that is available on the '09 Pilot should enable you to easily achieve that).

    Once you are comfortable with your new lease then decide whether you want to roll the charges from your current one into your new deal or just pay them out of your pocket and be done with it.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi cbklaz. Using the numbers that you provided in this post, I come up with a zero down, pre-tax monthly payment of around $458. That's a lot different than what the dealer is quoting you so either the payment that they came up with includes all sorts of fees and tax or something isn't right.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're correct, joeyhalsted. The $1,500 dealer cash is still available on the '09 Pilot. Honda Finance's March buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 Pilot Touring AWD without the entertainment system with 15,000 miles per year are .00151 and 46%, respectively. The money factor for one with the RES is the same, but its residual value is 1% lower. These factors assume that you qualify for its top credit tier.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello osyabender1. Here's the information that you're looking for. Honda Finance's current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 Pilot EX-L 4WD without the entertainment system with 12,000 miles per year are .00151 and 50%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its "Super Preferred" credit tier. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of an '09 Pilot Touring 4WD without the RES are .00151 and 48%.

    When negotiating your lease on either of these trucks, make sure to take advantage of the $1,500 dealer cash that is currently available on them.

    Car_man
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  • joeyhalstedjoeyhalsted Member Posts: 5
    This is the dealer's offer I receive for a 2009 Touring with RES (it also includes some all weather paint covering!):

    $36,500 (includes 670 destination plus the pkgs on the car)
    + 1,500 (dealer cash that you have to be taxed on)
    + 176 (doc fee)
    = 38176 (total amount taxed)
    * Lake County, IL tax rate ($2767)
    + 158 (for NEW plates from the state of Illinois)
    - 1500 (dealer cash from above)
    = $39602 OTD (this is adjusted to include the packages as stated)

    Questions:
    1.) is this a good deal? the cars seem to be in high demand/ low supply
    2.) is the dealer handling the 'cash back' correctly?
    3.) would the "out the door" price be different if I lease the truck?
    4.) is the destination fee valid? is it negotiable?

    Thanks to all !!!!!!
  • cbklazcbklaz Member Posts: 3
    Thanks Car Man,
    I tried to get better clarification from dealer salesperson but am still getting vague numbers that actually changed a bit..

    the msrp is 35,865 36 mth lease, 12,000 miles
    the sale price is 31,400
    the monthly price is 519-520 including tax
    the first payment and plates are due at signing

    the money factor is .00151
    the residual value is .50 (in my original post, I thought it was .49)

    What fees might they have added in? So besides telling them that their monthly payment doesn't match up with the sales price, what else can I say? I guess I am looking for "ammunition" to prove my case.

    Thanks again for the help -
  • bigdadi118bigdadi118 Member Posts: 1,207
    SELLING PRICE ......... $31,400.00
    MSRP ......... .............. $35,865.36
    MONEY FACTOR 0.00151 (X 2400) = 3.624 %
    LEASE TERM
    RESIDUAL VALUE 50% ......... $17,932.68 (50% of MSRP)
    USING VALUE ......... ............ $13,467.32 (Selling - Residual)
    EA MONTH VALUE ......... .......... $374.09 (Using Value / 36 mo)
    EA MONTH INTEREST ......... ....... $74.49
    MONTHLY LEASE PAYMENT ..... $448.58 for 3 yrs lease
    * NOT INCL TAX & OTHER FEES, DOWNS, REBATE, INCENTIVE *
    $448.58 is bare bone with $0 down that doesn't include tax (different state calculates differently) and Acquisition fee, usually $595.00. Ask dealer to break down the extra per month
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    No problem, cbklaz. The inclusion of sales tax in the payment certainly makes a difference. Te dealer may be rolling Honda Finance's $595 lease acquisition fee as well as some state fees into your truck's capitalized cost as well. Ask them what this truck's pre-tax payment is and ask them what fees you are being charged.

    Car_man
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  • KMS2009KMS2009 Member Posts: 3
    Hi Car man

    does honda offer a "low mile" lease? If so what is the residual value and MF for a 2009 EX-l 2wd for 3 years and 10,500 miles per year.

    thanks
  • cbklazcbklaz Member Posts: 3
    Thanks Again Car Man and bigdadi118,

    Your info is very helpful to me. One final question - when I get the details on the fees... are any of the fees negotiable or am I better off just trying to negotiate a lower sales price for the truck?
  • bigdadi118bigdadi118 Member Posts: 1,207
    Not negotiable : Acquisition fee, TT&L
    Negotiable : Dealer Admin. fee
    Better off to negotiate the sale price further down.
  • greatwhite24greatwhite24 Member Posts: 1
    I have been shopping the 09 Pilot around and the best price I got so far was:

    09 Pilot EX-L RES - $1495 down + Tax + Bank Fee + Tags = $3900

    $398. a month for 36 months. Does this sound good to you?
  • orangeman99orangeman99 Member Posts: 88
    joey,
    I don't know about the other questions, but the dealer is not giving you the cash back. Not only are you not getting the cash back, but you are being taxed for it. :surprise: THAT'S LOW, BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A CAR DEALER AFTERALL!

    They are doing a little math trick to look like they are giving you the rebate but they stuck in to the price "for tax purposes" earlier in the equation.

    I'll show you a different way. I'll still add the tax on the 1500 but won't add it the price:

    36,500
    +176
    =36676 (amount to be taxed)

    +2659 (tax @ 7.25%)
    +109 (tax on 1,500 rebate)
    +158 (plates)
    -1,500 (rebate)

    $38,102 OTD price with rebate. Isn't that exactly $1500 less than the quoted price. Surprise, surprise.
  • ocautoseekerocautoseeker Member Posts: 425
    Nice catch! I didn't respond to his original post 'cause it was over two weeks ago and I thought he'd probably got a car by now. That $1500 is NOT a rebate, and is not required to go the customer, hence, "Manufacturer-to-Dealer" incentive. However, in order to be competitive, most dealers should dip into that, if not give it all to the customer to sweeten the deal. The $1500 should come straight off the top, unlike a rebate which is used as a down payment after tax has been figured in.

    Again, nice job pointing out what a bunch of clowns those dealers were/are! Hard to believe shennanigans like this still exists, but wow!
  • golicgolic Member Posts: 714
    You may call it a math trick or shenanigans, but the dealer is not to blame - the Illinois legislator is were you should point your anger to.

    Illinois sales tax law provides that any incentive or rebate in which the dealer will ultimately be reimbursed by the manufacturer is subject to tax.

    So, in essence when the dealer gives you the $1,500 they are getting from the manufacturer, it is treated the same as a "down payment" or a reduction in the amount due and not as a reduction of the sales price that is subject to tax.

    This the same state in which we are "lucky" to have to:

    A) Pay sales tax on the full price of the leased vehicle and not just the rent payment.

    B) and if we decide to buy the vehicle at the END of the lease, we pay full sales tax rate on the purchase price again!!
  • orangeman99orangeman99 Member Posts: 88
    Regardless of the law, I DO blame this dealer for this. They obviously made it seem like they were giving him the incentive. The original poster wrote "-1500 dealer cash" so they obviously are trying to make it look like they are passing it to him, when they are not. In their quote, they are taxing him for the $1500 but not passing ANY of it to him. The OTD price would have been less if they didn't even mention the incentive at all, based on the calculations he posted. So how exactly is he benefitting from this incentive? :confuse:
  • orangeman99orangeman99 Member Posts: 88
    Very few dealers are willing to discuss leasing numbers through email, they all want you to come in. They all have different excuses.

    They think that if you come in, you have already "invested" time with them, so you may be more willing to buy from them. But are there any other reasons?
  • ocautoseekerocautoseeker Member Posts: 425
    many people get the terms "internet" and "fleet" mixed up, or in some cases, dealers will combine their so-called "fleet/internet" department into one. for high-volume dealers, it's not uncommon to contact someone in "fleet/internet" sales to request a quote/lease numbers etc., only to be told that they can only do it if they have a "warm body" in front of them. the truth is; the majority of people that you get in contact at first about a quote/numbers, are nothing more than the equivalent of a retail front-line salesman, only they are sitting behind a computer. they don't have the ability and/or authority to "desk" or write their own deals. if they have multiple leads in their inbox, they'll often find those that they "feel" are serious and ready to buy now, and do their best to get them in the store.

    in order to get quotes/numbers etc., that would require them to run down to the desk and have a manager run them, so they figure it's just easier to see if the customer would rather come down. now, if you get a true fleet guy or girl on the phone, they can rattle off numbers within seconds as they have the software in front of them to do that. a good dealer will always give you a quote over the phone or e-mail - he has nothing to lose!

    when i worked on the inside, before i was in a position to write my own deals, i was always amazed when i told my bosses that i had a prospective client who wants a car we actually have in stock, so let's just make him a great offer over the phone and let him know that we're professional and honest. always got some type of smug excuse like, "tell him we don't do numbers to go." didn't take me long being in the biz to realize that many did not have any sort of business sense and lacked customer service skills. this is why i enjoy consulting so much, because i can truly help the customer and since i don't work for the dealer, i don't need to worry about profit margins, csi's, and all that other bs.

    bottom line: if a dealer doesn't want to be helpful over the phone or net in this digital age, find a new dealer, unless of course, you live in a small town with no competition, then you really have no choice, unless you're willing to travel for a deal. also, be leary of the lowball quotes and confirm that the dealer actually has the vehicle in stock, or can easily arrange a trade with a sister location or with another dealer that they do indeed trade with on a regular basis. always reqest a vin or at a minimum, a stock number with your quote. dealers quote low, get you in house, then "flip" all the time. however, their websites want to make you feel all warm and cozy by promising you a "no hassle" experience. just about every dealer promises that, yet so few actually know how to get and retain biz. aahh, the auto industry - so sad sometimes.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi KMS2009. The lowest mileage allowance that I have seen Honda Finance residual values for on Honda models is 12,000 miles per year. It is possible that it offers 10k leases, but I have never seen one. Ask the dealer to find out for certain. If it offers 10k leases, their residual values are likely 1% higher than its 12k residuals.

    Honda Finance's current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 Pilot EX-L 2WD without the entertainment system with 12,000 miles per year are .00151 and 47%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its top aka "Super Preferred" credit tier.

    When negotiating your lease on this truck, make sure to take advantage of the $1,500 dealer cash that is currently available on it.

    Car_man
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  • bigdadi118bigdadi118 Member Posts: 1,207
    Are you aware that LX, EX, and Touring are in limited suppy while there are tons of EXL in dealer lots?

    Anyone knows the reason? Is it possible dealers get more money from Honda on EXL?
  • matthaneymatthaney Member Posts: 29
    What shoud be the correct Residual % for EX-L 4WD RES for 36-month 12K lease? I am certain of the money factor and the dealer cash incentive, but not certain of the residual. Is there any expectation that Honda Finance will adjust this up or down in April?
  • jedussjeduss Member Posts: 7
    Before I pull the trigger on this lease, I was hoping to get feedback on the folowing numbers. I don't think there's much more room for the dealer to move, but please let me know if anyone knows of any variables that could help me out further. I want to keep the up-front cash to just the first month's pymt.
    36 months @ 15,000 miles/yr
    MSRP $37,565
    Sale Price $31,322 (presumably got full credit for the $1500 cash incentive and then some)
    Financed fees $1,080 (acq fee, doc fee, reg)
    Residual 47%
    Money Factor .00151
    Monthly Payment $514.32 (including 6% tax)
    Out-of pocket only the first payment of $514.32

    I've leased for 39 months in the past in order to effectively reduce the monthly payment, but the dealers that I have spoken to this time around said that the current money factor and residual for 39 months do not provide any benefits. Can anyone confirm this?

    Thanks for any insight!
  • golicgolic Member Posts: 714
    The 39 month lease is a "card trick" so avoid it if you can.

    Last I checked in Feb/Mar you loose 1% (or 2%) on the residual. The money factor on a 36 or 39 month lease was the same.

    The 3 extra payments will cost you more than than the savings on the 36 payments with the higher residual.

    Plus, EVERY time I have leased a honda, they have always allowed you to extend for a brief time under the original terms at the end of the lease. So if it is a longer time you need, go this route.
  • jedussjeduss Member Posts: 7
    Thanks for the reply golic. Even after reducing the residual (assuming money factor stays the same), it sould reduce the monthly payment though, correct. I agree that the total payments under the 39 month option would be more though.
  • swampdragonswampdragon Member Posts: 35
    If the sale price is really $31,322 at a maximum - you seem to think it might be lower - why not just buy the car.

    $514*39 is over $20k in payments - I am pretty confident the buyout price is way about $12,000

    Also, I was able to extend my honda through honda leasing for over 2 years once the lease was up (and it was only a 24 month lease to start with)
  • imy2imy2 Member Posts: 5
    Car_Man and All the rest,

    I am in the market for leasing a new pilot as my current one is expiring this month. I am wondering if this is the good time to lease one or should I wait till end of summer or so on to get a better deal. What numbers should I expect for 2009 Pilot EX FWD lease in central OH? Any incentives other than $1500 that are available?

    Thank you all for your contribution to this forum, it is very useful tool.
  • ocautoseekerocautoseeker Member Posts: 425
    Let me clarify: are you rolling the bank fee ($595), doc fee ($??), and reg ($??) into your lease payments and only paying the 1st mo upfront?

    Deal looks really good at first glance - I'd just like to know how much their doc fee is? Regardless, looks like a very aggressive deal. My gut says jump on it.
  • jedussjeduss Member Posts: 7
    That's correct, the following fees are being rolled into the lease and the only amount I am paying upfront is the 1st monthly payment
    Acq Fee $595
    Doc Fee $299
    Reg, etc $188

    I've gotten a cheaper doc fee from another dealer and since this is "dealer profit" anyway, I'm trying to squeeze a few more dollars out of here too.

    In addition, I'm trying to leverage the potential profit in the 2006 Pilot that I am turning in off lease. If the dealer buys this vehicle out and sells it on there lot, they can make a bit of profit. I'm trying to get a bit of that profit applied to the 2009 lease.
  • ocautoseekerocautoseeker Member Posts: 425
    Eh, the doc fee is a little high, but we're spoiled out here in Cali as dealers are capped at $55. In the grand scheme of the whole deal though, on a $38k vehicle, if they wanna' make $300, that's okay. Maybe see if they'll knock off $100 bucks or so of that doc, but you have a really good deal so far, so just be careful that you don't nickel and dime 'em to death.

    Is the residual value on your '06 less than what they're willing to give you in trade? It's not uncommon for a Honda or a Toyota to have a little equity at lease-end, but if the residual is more, just give back the keys and be done with it. The dealer will treat your leased vehicle just like a trade-in.
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