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2013 and earlier Lexus RX 350 / RX 450h Lease Questions
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Comments
(1) when I get to the dealer tomorrow to pick up the vehicle, should I expect any out of pocket costs whatsovever? Can they charge me for tag transfer, title, taxes - any of those "inception costs". I have asked this before and they have assured me that "no additional costs are required - true zero down lease"
(2) Is there anything I should be on the lookout for when signing the contract. As I understand it it should simply say 35 payments of $642 with 1st due 30 days from delivery.
(3) should i get prepaid maintenance? They have offered at $495 and I would like it added to my payment. Is there tax on this amount?
Thank you!!
sign with my registration
2010 Lexus RX350 AWD, silver with gray leather.
- Premium package (PM)
- Heated and cooled seats (HS)
- Wood and Leather Steering Wheel and Shift Knob (WU)
- Towing Prep Package (TO)
- Backup Monitor (EC)
- Preferred accessory package (cargo net, wheel locks, trunk mat)
MSRP: $44,090
Invoice: $40,200
Negotiated price: $39,600
Adjusted CAP cost: $40,020 (negotiated price + $245 doc fee + 175 MV fee)
Term: 36 mo/10,000 miles
Residual: $26,895 (61%)
Money factor: 0.00190
Monthly payment: $535 ($491 base + 8.875% NYC tax)
Due at signing: $1,235 ($535 first month + $700 bank fee)
Total lease cost: $535 x 36 + $700 = $19,960
I think I did pretty good. What do you guys think?
Dealer said (for what it worth) that almost all 2010 models are gone and new 2011s are going to cost more, they are expecting them to start arriving in the mid of June. Also he was hinting that most likely June program will change and not in the good way. I had to choose from just 3 in stock - black, light blue and dark red. Since my wife didn't like black and I can't be seen in light blue, he is getting silver from another dealer in its network. Picking up Tuesday. Thanks again to everyone who shared valuable info; it helped a lot.
Also, on the deal you have for $530 a month, which model is this for, just the premium model or the model with the nav and comfort package? Thanks.
Looks like a fairly good deal. Congrats! But, here's a heads up...
I assume the vehicle will be registered in NY state. If so, the one thing that jumps out is the sales tax. Unless NY's sales tax computational methodology for leases was changed recently, tax is levied on total payments and due at inception. There are two ways in which to pay the tax: (1) the dealer or fund provider pays them on your behalf and, simply adds them as an amount financed, thus capitalizing them in the lease; (2) pay them at lease signing.
You indicated an adj cap of 44,020 (which excludes taxes). You also indicated upfront lease charges consisting of first payment and bank fee. This, of course, excludes sales tax. Using your numbers and, assuming that taxes are being capitalized, I get a base payment of $491.72 and a payment, including tax, of $542.89 as opposed to your $535. NY does not collect tax monthly by taxing the individual payment receipts as you seem to indicate. And so, I'm a little puzzled when I see a payment, including tax, of 535 = (491 x 1.08875) instead of a payment of $542.89.
My question is: Did you disclose the 535 payment for sake of simplicity or (and here's the big concern) did the dealer disclose the 535 figure? Sometimes, a dealer will contact customers, even days after the deal has been consumated, to inform them that they made a mistake. Just be aware of this possibility in the event that this issue arises. Otherwise, I wouldn't say anything (even though I'm announcing it to the whole damn world in this forum... (lol)).
Here are some references just in case you're interested...
http://www.tax.state.ny.us/pdf/advisory_opinions/sales/a00_39s.pdf
(see Situation
http://www.tax.state.ny.us/pdf/advisory_opinions/sales/a95_31s.pdf
John
Its clear to me now, that selling price and adj cap cost in my initial post are wrong; these numbers were "reverse calculated" by me by plugging MSRP, MF, residual, all CAPped fees and tax rate into leaseguide's lease calculator and adjusting selling price to get to $535 with tax. Obviously I messed it up and selling price should be lower to accommodate higher adj cap cost and still translate into $535.
Now I'm having problem to properly "reverse-calculate" my lease to see the selling price and adj cap cost when taxes are capped too: taxes are based on base payment + finance charge. But when taxes are capped, it changes the adj cap cost, which in turn changes base payment and changes taxes? If anybody can help I would appreciate that.
Thanks
Actually, this isn't an easy problem but it isn't real complicated either. However, many high school/college algebra students would probably throw in the towell thinking it's completely useless and a waste of time. Let's work through this...
NY computes sales tax a bit differently than any of the other 49 states. In my last post, I provided the following reference...
http://www.tax.state.ny.us/pdf/advisory_opinions/sales/a00_39s.pdf
(see Situation
Situation B is described on Page 5. Based on the example provided and, although not explicitly given, one can determine a formula crafted to fit your needs. Assuming you have no cap reduction, the formula for taxes is...
T = [t / (1 - t)] x [FN(C + A + V) + (C + A - V)]. ......... (1a)
where:
T = Total Payment Sales Tax Liabilty
t = Sales Tax Rate = 8.875%
F = Money Factor = 0.00190
N = Term (months) = 36
C = Sell Price = $39,359.20
A = All Capitalized Fees Excluding Tax = $420.00
V = Residual Value = $26,894.90
Observe that one does not need to know the payment explicitly to compute taxes,T, which may have been the sticking point. Substituting the above values, one obtains T = $1,699.01. Your base payment is actually the bolded expression divided by N. Therefore, the bolded expression represents the total of the base payments.
Your payment, including taxes, is simply a direct application of the money factor formula...
P = F[C + A + T + V] + [C + A + T - V] / N .................... (1b)
Given the data you provided, a sell price of C = $39,359.20 would be required to obtain a payment of P = $535.00 including tax. Observe that your adjusted cap is C + A + T.
Also, NOTE that the above reference states at the bottom of page 5...
“It is noted that this example does not reflect any time value of money. Any factor used to increase the amount that the customer pays to the lessor as part of the lease payment would also increase the amount subject to tax and should be considered accordingly.”
This, of course, brings into question the actuarial methodology that captures the time-value of money. The formula that captures the time-value of money for computing the monthly lease payment, including taxes, is
P = [FN(C + A + V) + (C + A - V)] / [N(1 - t - FNt)] = $535.00............ (2a)
And, although this may seem a bit strange, the total payment sales tax liability is is...
T = PNt = $1,709.33................. (2b)
Once again, the base payment is the bolded expression divided by N and so, the bolded expression reflects the total of the base payments.
These results assume a sell price of C = $39,348.90; all else remains unchanged. As you can see, the sell price under (2a) ($39,348.90) is slightly lower than the sell price under (1b) ($39,359.20). But, the taxes under (1a) are slightly lower than under (2b) for a given payment of $535.00. Consequently, if one recognizes the time-value of money, for a given payment, the taxes will be slightly higher triggered by an additional finance.
We obviously have two different scenarios. And so, this raises the following question:
Does your dealer's software recognize the time-value of money calculations as described in (2a) and (2b) or; does it ignore the time-value construct deferring, instead, to formulas (1a) and (1b)? I'm betting on (1a) and (1b).
If you're curious, the only way to know for sure is to ask the dealer to email you their "lease worksheet". If you like, you may email it to me at
diffeq@zoominternet.net
and I will do a complete analysis and, hopefully, address all your concerns if I haven't already done so. In addition, I can also provide a numerical example using the above formulas. One last thing... as you know, one can algebraically manipulate these formulas to solve for any given variable.
John
PS: Providing a numerical example, as well as the rationale or derivation of the above formulas in this forum, would be tedious and unwieldy and so, I omitted them.
The following is an addendum to my post #1901 above...
If you are rolling NY sales tax into your lease, you are paying sales tax on sales tax. As far as I know, the constitutionality of this has never been challenged. In fact, I'm guessing that few New Yorkers realize that sales tax is being levied on sales tax in such instances. Here's the proof of the latter...
Let's use the first case in Post #1901 above...
Let:
T = Total Payment Sales Tax Liabilty
t = Sales Tax Rate = 8.875%
F = Money Factor = 0.00190
N = Term (months) = 36
P = Monthly Payment including Sales Tax = $535.00
C = Sell Price = $39,359.20
A = All Capitalized Fees Excluding Tax = $420.00
V = Residual Value = $26,894.90
K = Total Payments Excluding Sales Tax
The total payments (excluding tax) = K = FN(C + A + V) + (C + A - V)]
Plugging in the assigned values, we get total payments of K = $17,444.81
Adding tax, T, to the total payments, K and, then, multiplying the sum by the sales tax rate,t, we have the formula...
T = (K + T)t = Kt + Tt .... and this is where sales tax is levied on sales tax
T = [t / (1 - t)] x K
Substituting the assigned values, we get
T = [0.08875 / (1 - 0.08875)] x 17,444.81
= $1,699.01
Now, let's examine the second case (time-value of money)
Let:
T = Total Payment Sales Tax Liabilty
F = Money Factor = 0.00190
N = Term (months) = 36
C = Sell Price = $39,348.90
A = All Capitalized Fees Excluding Tax = $420.00
V = Residual Value = $26,894.90
P = Monthly Payment including Sales Tax = $535.00
N = Term (months) = 36
t = Sales Tax Rate = 8.875%
T = PNt
= 535.00 x 36 x 0.08875
= $1,709.33
Because PN reflects the total payments, including sales tax, and PN, in turn, is multiplied by t, sales tax is necessarily levied on sales tax.
Thoughts?
John
PS: I know that this post belongs, more appropriately, in the Vehicle Sales Tax forum but this is a sidebar commentary to the previous post (#1901). Sorry.
Thank you very much for all your help. Although I didn't ask dealer for lease work sheet, you were right and it looks like they are using 1st methodology to calculate taxes, as they appeared really surprised when heard "time-value" term.
As for taxes being charged on taxes in NY - I am appalled but not surprised. After all this is NY we're talking about, the most likely place to invent "taxing tax" concept.
Thanks again and I wish you all the best.
Thanks for taking the time to read my long-winded dissertation. The fact that your dealer is using the first method doesn't surprise me at all. My numbers should match their's exactly. The dealer probably wouldn't know much about the "time-value" concept even if it were built into their software as they couldn't care less. Very few dealers make the effort to learn how their software computes payments, taxes, etc. A sad reflection on the shallow state of our nation... people just don't care... it's all about the almighty $$$ and image...academics be damned.
Best of luck to you!
John
Long time again for me, but it's that time again being near lease end. I know that in the past Lexus Financial would absolutely and positively NOT agree to sell a car below the original Contract Residual. (even if it meant they would lose money in the resale market.)
I have just heard from someone else that they were offered a few thousand dollars off the Residual to purchase their 2008 Lexus RX350. Can you tell me if this is something that has changed due to the Current environment?
Also my daughter has an IS 250 that is at the end of the lease and is considering buying the car if the Residual is negotiable.
Thanks again
GW
I know that you don't have a crystal ball (or do you)?
Anyway wanted some feedback on leasing a 2010 RX350 or waiting for the 2011 to come out. Do you expect any promotions on either coming up?
Thank you
GW
Good Luck
Looks like the MF for a non-Lexus returning customer is .00255?
Residual 57%?
How much over invoice is reasonable on these cars?
Thanks!
Todd
Car_man
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It's difficult to say what Lexus Financial Services' lease program will be like on the 2011 RX 350 will be like when it is introduced. I suspect that Lexus will try to sell it without much, if any, support for the first month or two that it's available...at least while it tries to selldown its remaining leftover 2010 models. After that you may be able to find a period of time where its money factor support is equivalent to what is going on right now and the '11's residual values are slightly better than the '10's residuals are this month. I don't envision an opportunity that is worth waiting for, but again my crystal ball is in the shop.
Car_man
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If your credit is in good shape and the dealer tries to charge you a higher rate than that, they are looking to make some additional hidden, back-end profit on your deal.
Car_man
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I've never leased before, so I would like to get some idea what a decent deal (rough monthly payment) would be on a '10 RX 350 (preferably in the North Texas area) with the Comfort Pkg, Premium Pkg, and NAVI at 15K/yr over 36 mos., and typically what % dealers should be coming off of the MSRP. Would probably take an in-stock vehicle without too much regard to exterior/interior color.
Thanks !!
Do rates typically get better in July/August? Does Lexus typically run a summer sales event?
I'm getting different numbers for the June MF and residuals, can you confirm the rates for the NYC area?
i'm seeing 0.00190 with a residual of 58%
also, for 12 and 10K mile leases, is it +2 and +3% respectively?
thanks in advance!
It appears that Lexus is currently sponsoring the lease on the 2010 RX looks like some type of Dealer concession ($3,000). So with that fact included what is the current Residual and M.F. in the Southeast for a 36 month, 10,000 miles per year?
MSRP approx. $47K. Dealer offering $43K
I want to put down 1st month plus tax, title and tags.
Prefer 48 months/15K miles per month
Would like to be in the $450/month range
Is this feasible?
Also my current lease is up at the beginning of September. One dealer told me I could be getting a 2010 or 2011 at that time but may have to order a 2011 now to ensure I get it configured exactly as I want it. Any suggestions?
In short, the easiest way to get a good deal on a leased vehicle is to shop around for the lowest possible selling price and then have the dealer that you decide to go with calculate your vehicle's monthly payment using its buy rate lease money factor.
I would be happy to use Lexus' current lease program to work up a sample payment on the exact truck that you are interested in for you if you provide me with its full MSRP and dealer invoice price. You can look up that information over in the New Vehicle Pricing section of Edmunds.com.
Car_man
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Car_man
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You are correct about the low mileage adders.
Car_man
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According to the latest information that I have seen, Through July 6th Lexus Financial Services' buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2010 RX 350 FWD with 10,000 miles per year are .00210 and 58%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its top aka "Tier 1+" credit tier.
Car_man
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According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2010 Lexus RX 350 AWD that has an MSRP of $47,000 and a selling price of $43,000 through Lexus Financial Services right now for 48 months with 15,000 miles per year, your zero down, pre-tax monthly payment would be around $555.
Unfortunately it appears as though it won't be possible to hit the $450 per month that you were hoping for without putting a lot of money down, which is never a good idea on a lease.
Car_man
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The addition of the OEM entertainment system drops the RX's residual value by 2%.
Car_man
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Thanks for asking I have been fine.
I'm not sure if i read correctly, but is the residual for a FWD 3 points lower than the AWD? 61% / 58%.
Also not sure if you referenced the $3,000 that I "THINK" Lexus is providing the dealers incentive. This would lower the Cap Cost so wouldn't this make up for the higher M.F.?
I.e. if MSRP is $47,000 agrees to $43,000 take off another $3,000 So now Cap Cost would be $40,000.
If Residual is 61% you only owe $11,330 / 36 = $314
+ Interest at MF of .00210 on $68,000 = $143
Total Monthly should be $457 + Tax
gwarrenfl
48 month lease/12k miles a year/3k down $531.00 inc tax
36 month lease/12k miles a year/3k down $553.00 inc tax
Any insight? I dont like to put money down on a lease either.
Thanks!!
What MF and Residual is the dealer quoting you? You need those to determine whether or not it's a good deal.
MSRP: 47,644
Gross Cap Cost: 42,332
12k/36 - payment of 542.45
No cap cost reduction... good deal?
Does anyone know the money factor for a ONE PAY lease on a 2010 rx350? Is the residual for 15,000 miles 58%? Is there any current dealer incentive that will benefit me? I have to get a car ASAP.....my transmission" failed" on my 2000 rx300 (116,000 miles) with no warning!!!.....a little whining noise on Thursday and no transmission on Friday. Lexus said the oil pump inside the engine has no pressure, can't be fixed.....$5000+ to rebuild....froget it.....
I'm looking at 2 different cars; one MSRP $44,500 and one MSRP $48,000, 36 month lease, 15,000 miles. I'm in Wisconsin.
I just started my search and was offered the following:
2010 RX350 w Premium Package, Heated and cooled seats and 19 in rims)
MSRP 43,850
Sales Price 40,598
36 month 12 k per year
Residual 60%
Money Factor 0.00265
Payment came to $614 (747 due at signing)
Thoughts on this deal?
Cheers,
Ed :shades:
Premium
Comfort
Navigation
Xenon
19" wheels
Heated/Ventilated Seats
Wood/Leather Steering Wheel
12 speaker premium audio
2010 lexus 450h AWD, fully loaded
4 year lease 15k/year
2000 down
MSPR $54,735
cap cost 50993
residual 47% ($25,725)
MF.00130
thanks,
wet behind the ears
What's your monthly lease payment and where did you get this deal?
Michigan
is that really?? bad or good?
Could you please quote the LFS money factor and residual on a 36 month 15K mi/yr lease on the RX350awd (fully loaded - I believe its option C) with top tier credit for July.
Thank you in advance!