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2013 and earlier-Mercedes-Benz S-Class Lease Questions

135

Comments

  • skrontzskrontz Member Posts: 9
    Sounds like either you've been listening to a dealer too much or are a dealer yourself. There haven't been any such announcements by "the Germans." The dollar is actually growing very strong, and it's the euro that is crashing. If our economy is bad, very few people are buying cars. If very few people are buying cars, raising the prices means that the automakers would suffer even more. The future is only going to bring more discounts as the dealers realize that barely anyone wants their gas guzzlers.
  • juice1220juice1220 Member Posts: 27
    Skrontz,
    Yes I am a dealer. I work for a BMW dealer, and I worked at Mercedes Benz before this. August 1st BMW did announce what I wrote before. Discounts will not happen as lightly as you think. Every company is in business to make a profir, and the profits bmw and mercedes are generating lately are not that good. Especially when they are taking huge hits on the lease turn ins. Go to bmw or mercedes benz websites in Germany and see how much an s class or 7 series is in euros. Its about the same. Plus they pretty much buy all their cars in europe so residuals really dont come into play, and the extra cost of shipping and insurance, blah blah blah. Mercedes Benz and BMW were once considered a high line vehicle, and were not mass produced as they are now. over the past 2 months BMW residuals have dropped 5-8% across the board. Leases have actually gone up. The car business will change dramaticaly in the next year or 2. Oh and the msrp of the vehicles for 2009 has increased already. The only thing that is going to happen is alot of dealers will be closing shop, because they will not be able to sell as many cars, I know you probably dont care, but the less dealers, the less chance for you to shop from dealer to dealer, which means less discount. I am in a bullet proof area in terms of the economy, but many many dealers will be hurting in a big way. We can talk more about this in about a year. Plus how cheap do you really expect a $90,000 S-class to get?? Its not meant for everyone to have one in their driveway.
  • skrontzskrontz Member Posts: 9
    Profits are made by either selling something exclusive at high margin or through sales volume. The reason Mercedes and BMW are not making good profits is that their cars are no longer as competitive as Lexus and other similar brands are. It's no secret that the MSRP for a new Mercedes in Europe is way higher than in the States. The reason is that the most of the sales are made here, and raising the price too much would scare away the buyers and drive the volume down. You can't be very profitable on a non-mass-produced high-line vehicle (see Bentley for a perfect example). You have to drive sales volume, and -- hence -- you need to stay competivie in terms of pricing. The MSRPs on 2009 BMW or Mercedes models didn't increase. Actually, the S550 is now cheaper since several former options are now standard (Premium Package I and Wood/Leather Steering Wheel). The inflation itself means that they are 5% cheaper than a year ago. I don't care for the dealers since there will always be competition. If you expect that people would line up to cash out $100k for a rapidly depreciating asset during a severe and prolonged economy downturn, you're in for a huge disappointment. The dealers in "bulletproof" area that I live in right now haven't sold a single 2008 S550 at least for the past 4 months. I expect to buy an S550 slightly above the invoice (and even then, barely anyone would buy it). After all, the most margin is made on warranty repairs, not the initial sale.
  • juice1220juice1220 Member Posts: 27
    I am not sure of Mercedes MSRP's but BMW did go up. I dont know what "bulletproof" area you live in, but my local Mercedes dealer is selling s550 like Pez candies. The reason some of those options have become standard is because the longer a manufacturer produces the same product the cheaper and cheaper it gets to produce the vehicle, so they can give the consumer some standard options. For BMW the US. is not the number 1 market, but Europe is, so they fill production for Europe and then we get the rest. Like I said before we can argue about this for ages, but lets give it a year, and talk again.
  • skrontzskrontz Member Posts: 9
    OK, let's take a specific example. Back in 2006, I bought my dad a 750Li. The MSRP was slighly over $93k. I just built the same model on bmwusa.com and it came out to slightly over $90k. Bake in the inflation, it went down a lot. Which MSRP are you referring to? I'd like to see specific figures. I live in California. The only area S550s are selling well is probably NYC. Not to worry, soon enough those investment bankers will be trading them in to help the balance sheet ;-) Come on, do you really think it costs Mercedes $90k to build a new S550? It's not about transfering the savings to the customer, it's about staying afloat when a Lexus offers twice as many toys at a fraction of the price. As far as BMW selling in Europe, here's a quote for you (you can Google it for the source):

    "The USA remained the largest single market for BMW and MINI cars in 2007. With a sales volume of 335,840 units (2006: 313,603 units /+7.1%), the BMW Group sold more vehicles there than ever before."

    We can argue for ages, but somehow I'm the one who keeps getting the facts right ;-)
  • shawn757shawn757 Member Posts: 204
    BMW's number one market is the US. Not europe. Audi's number one market is Europe. You can see their lease rates are not good compared to BMW. I was told by a BMW dealer that Audi A6 sells more in Germany and in europe than the BMW 5 series.
  • skrontzskrontz Member Posts: 9
    So what? Didn't find anything on the supposed MSRP increases you mentioned. I can post any rumors I want in my blog, too. One needs to look at the facts, not rumors.
  • juice1220juice1220 Member Posts: 27
    These are not rumors in a blog. Being in the car business, we sometimes have info that maybe the general public doesn't have. Just maybe for once you can listen instead of trying to be right all the time. I dont know what you do for a living and dont know the ins and outs of your business, but I am glad you know everything that pertains to mine. I just hope you dont work for Lehman Brothers, but if you did, it would explain alot. At least one of us does. You are right, I am just a dummy manager in the car business, and really know nothing about what I do. I hope all your car buying needs in the future are wonderful, and may you get all your cars from now on at triple net. Enjoy !
  • paotronpaotron Member Posts: 7
    I have just leased a 2008 S550 throuh Mercedes-Benz Financial and they charge me $1095 Acquisition Fee.
    Does different bank set their own Acquisition Fee?
  • eights38eights38 Member Posts: 145
    paotron - Each bank charges a different acquisition fee - Mercedes charges $795.

    Matt
    eights38@gmail.com
  • decissions08decissions08 Member Posts: 1
    I normally purchase my cars but have been offered an interesting proposal from a large leasing company that gets fleet pricing at a 6.7% discount with a 10K rebate which is 2.7% better discount than what I can do for a cash price. Their trade in offer is $3K better than the dealer. I plan on purchasing the car at the end of the lease so they have proposed a 48 month lease at the same cash outlay as a 60-63 month finance payment totaling $92,000. I plan on taking title to the car. I am concerned that the dealer will not honor service entitlements such as loan cars if it is sold to the leasing company first. Sales tax in TX (6.25%) is paid on the full value of the car at lease commencement, not your monthly payment, and then again on the residual should you purchase at the end of lease. Leasing company says they will offset these with tax credits and thus the value of my trade in becomes $22,500. Hmm? Here is the deal:
    If I lease with an option to purchase:
    MSRP $92,720
    Less discount & rebate $16,212
    Less trade in $16,000 ($6K to be applied to upfront costs, $10K rebate to me)
    Total Car Price $60,508
    Cash back $10,000
    6.25% Sales tax to be wavied by offseting tax credits (this is new to me and a concern)
    48 months
    $1200 per month
    Residual $28,000
    Money factor 0.00219

    Finance purchase from dealer:
    60 month
    $1330 per month
  • shawn757shawn757 Member Posts: 204
    I heard from 2 DEALERS today that MBUSA is going to increase the MSRP on all cars and SUVS by 5% starting October. Invoice will also be increased by 5% as well. They said this is due to the $ going down due to the economy. Has anyone heard this? Since 2 dealers are saying this I figured this is true.
  • shawn757shawn757 Member Posts: 204
    What is this lease company?
  • juice1220juice1220 Member Posts: 27
    Skrontz,
    I work for a dealer in the northeast. I am presently at BMW and worked for Mercedes before working here. Both Benz and BMW did announce that. BMW also announced that they will be shipping 40,000 less cars to the US for the next model year. Considering 230,000 sold in the US last year that is a pretty big number. I went through this with someone else a few weeks ago, if you read a few pages back you can see the whole thing. Unfortunately, I am a dealer and no one wants to believe me. We will see next year how things pan out. Just to give some advice, I recommend that if you are in the market for a new car, do the deal sooner than later, just in case the germans decide to raise all prices, and lower production like they plan. The rest I leave up to you.
  • skrontzskrontz Member Posts: 9
    I just wish you would check the facts before posting. The dollar is going up, not down. The European economy is just starting the dive. The MY2009 prices were set in the summer when the dollar was about 10% cheaper than now.

    Yes, of course, since two dealers said something, it gotta be true! Did they also mention, by any chance, that the Earth is flat?

    MB cannot afford to increase US prices right now; not during one of the worst downturns. Their worldwide sales will be down the drain this and next year anyways.
  • skrontzskrontz Member Posts: 9
    For some reason, I have to re-post the quote from the previous page:

    "The USA remained the largest single market for BMW and MINI cars in 2007. With a sales volume of 335,840 units (2006: 313,603 units /+7.1%), the BMW Group sold more vehicles there than ever before."

    Where did you get the 230k figure from? Where did you get the information about the production cut? While I wouldn't be surprised that it's the case considering the fragile market conditions, I'd prefer to see a link to the source.

    Yes, of course, why don't I go and dump $100k of cash into a rapidly depreciating asset right about now. Cause there're lines forming at every dealer, you know.

    Please look at what GM is going through right now (employee pricing for everyone, huge rebates, etc). Very soon, MB and BMW will be forced to do the same just to survive. That's my prediction; the time will tell who was right.
  • juice1220juice1220 Member Posts: 27
    Skrontz,
    I must say, you are one of the most positive people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. Everything will be much better as the years pass. Why would you even bring GM into this discussion? They are doing EP because they want you to buy the car, and not lease it. Go there and see what a lease number is on any product they have. It will knock you off your feet. OK, I did mistype the 230,000 number it is actually 290,000, we are not counting Mini in this discussion. 40,000 less BMW's is a big drop. This was said on August 1st and thats is BMW's stance now. If it will change in the future, no one knows. But for you to be as positive and upbeat about how cheap cars will get in amazing to me. Everything around you in life is getting more and more expensive, and harder and harder to buy, yet you think cars will get cheaper. Why? How do you come up with this conclusion? Like I said in the previous page, we should not argue about this, because only time will tell. I just think that the next year will be very interesting for the car business.
  • skrontzskrontz Member Posts: 9
    Thank you, I am in fact a very positive person. However, what I'm talking about here is as far from positive as it can be. While I agree that everything will eventually become better, it may become pretty bad first. Actually, it's already pretty bad. There's a very good reason I'm bringing up GM. And no, GM doesn't really care whether you lease a car, finance, or buy it with cash. In fact, GM gets the full value of the car right away. It's the bank who is bringing the dough to the table and who owns your car. And the sad reality is that banks are no longer willing to give out loans. And it's not only true for the cars: banks don't even want to give money to each other. People with 800 FICA scores, tons of cash on hand, and great jobs are unable to get good financing on a brand new house. In this situation, buying an expensive car with cash (provided, there's no financing available) is last on their wish list. Check out this recent article:

    (It won't let me put a link here, but google "2nd UPDATE: US Auto Sales Slump Again; GM Outperforms")

    Notice how GM is the only one staying ahead because of their deeply discounted pricing? Here's another piece of information for you: what we had unrolling in the US for the past 12 months is just starting to hit Europe. And it may be way uglier there than here with 13 countries pulling on the single currency and the consumer being squeezed beyond belief. And you bet your boots the luxury automakers will suffer most as people struggle to make the ends meet.

    What is getting more expensive? Aside from commodities, nothing really. When was the last time you saw this great 60" plasma TV go up in price? Prices are determined by supply and demand, not how much of a margin you want to make. Yes, it became very expensive to eat. And it will likely get worse. When you're hungry, you don't exactly go out there and buy this great imported vehicle that just went up 5% in price. In times like this, people buy affordable Ford instead of a flashy BMW. I wish luxury cars were in high demand, but with those poor investment bankers literally out on the streets it'll be awhile before we see lines at the dealers.

    I just noticed that MB indeed increased all MSRPs for 2009 US models by about 2.3%.My guess is that the change was planned sometime back in August when things weren't looking so bad. Right now, the euro is plunging and the credit crunch is spreading. I give them 3 to 5 months before they cave and do what GM is doing now to stay afloat. Unfortunaly, 50k+ gas guzzlers with no good financing available is not exactly what the consumer is craving for today.
  • mbzlvrmbzlvr Member Posts: 14
    I got my 2009 S550 in mid-August and at that time the base MSRP was $87k. I noticed yesterday that the base price at MBUSA website is $90,225.
  • richzrichz Member Posts: 160
    Does anyone know of Mercedes forums that have discussion of current pricing like Bimmerfest.com has for BMWs? Basically somewhere to see what people are paying that is more active than here. Thanks.
  • richzrichz Member Posts: 160
    Can someone please give me the money factor and residual for the 2008 S550 4Matic? I have the numbers for the 2009 model but I'm wondering how much different the residual is for the 2008 model.

    Thanks.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi richz. Mercedes is not leasing 2008 models any longer. If you really want to lease an S550, you will have to go with a 2009 model.

    Car_man
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  • richzrichz Member Posts: 160
    Maybe they were when I asked the question :). Thanks for the response though.
  • rmahoney2013rmahoney2013 Member Posts: 1
    how did u work a deal like this? i went today and could not get a 2010 under 1700 with 3500 down. any advise? :confuse:
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    The post you replied to was made in April, 2008.

    Which might have something to do with the price he paid.. ;)

    Edmunds Price Checker
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    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

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  • juice1220juice1220 Member Posts: 27
    Thats great ! Ooops a bit behind. :-) LOL :D
  • heys500heys500 Member Posts: 1
    I need change my fuel pump is there an ez way of doin that :sick:

    I have a 2000 s500 :confuse:
  • moetmoet Member Posts: 10
    your best bet would be the forums on mbworld or benzworld dot org. They may give you better suggestions....
  • juice1220juice1220 Member Posts: 27
    As far as I know the fuel pump is located in the gas tank intself. I would not mess with that at all !!!!! You have to dreop the tank disassemble all the lines, and mess around in the gas tank. Not a fun or safe project.
  • carnut12carnut12 Member Posts: 67
    Carman,

    Do you know the rates for the 2010 s550 4matic 36 months 12k miles in new jersey?

    thanks
  • gs451gs451 Member Posts: 19
    Hi,
    My mom is looking to get into a new S-class. She is 2 months shy of finishing her lease with BMW. We want the car to have the most safety features so Driver Assistance with Pre-Safe is something we would want to have.

    Was wondering what the current rates are and if there are any 2009's available would it be better to go with that? Would there be more flexibility with lease rates on the S400 or would the S550 be better in that regard?

    We are looking to lease for 24months-39 months with 12k miles a year and $3500 drive off. What payments would we be looking at if we were to go for it now or as opposed to April....or better yet, what time of year would be best to find a deal on this type of vehicle?

    Also, we are in Orange County and have dealt with House of Imports in Buena Park in the past. Are there any other recommendations? Just looking for the best deal possible...

    Sorry for the plethora of questions, but I'm hopeful that you guys would be of help!

    Best Regards!
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi carnut12. Here's the info that you're looking for. Mercedes-Benz Financial's current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2010 S550 4Matic with 12,000 miles per year are .00239 and 52%, respectively.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi gs451. Mercedes isn't providing lease support on 2009 models any longer. So if your mother really wants to lease her new MB, she definitely will have to go with a 2010 model.

    Mercedes-Benz Financial's current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2010 S550 2WD with 12,000 miles per year are .00263 and 52%, respectively.

    The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of a 2010 S400 are .00227 and 54%.

    I would bee happy to work up a couple of sample lease payments on these cars for you if you provide me with their full MSRPs and dealer invoice prices as your mother wants them equipped. You can find that data over in the New Vehicle Pricing section of Edmunds.com.

    Car_man
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  • gs451gs451 Member Posts: 19
    Hi Car_Man,
    Basically the car's MSRP is:
    $98,945

    and the invoice is
    $92,080

    This is for an S550 with the Driver Assistance Package and the Premium 2 Package.
    I've noticed it is hard to find a car with the Driver Assistance Package, why is it? Would this affect the negotiating power with the car (i.e. since this is such a rare package, would dealers not be so flexible with discounting)?

    Thanks for any help.
  • gs451gs451 Member Posts: 19
    Hi Car_Man,

    If we consider the S400 it will have the following:
    Invoice: $89,970
    MSRP: $96,675

    Also, sorry I know this is off-topic, but Edmunds had done a review on the S400 breaks and said that Driver Assistance was required. With driver assistance, do the breaks seem safer?

    Just looking for the safest car possible.

    Thanks again!
  • mb3213mb3213 Member Posts: 5
    If the dealer has to order the vehicle or locate the car in your area it will definitely damage your negotiating power. It really depends what area of the country you are looking in? I would check your pricing on this S550 the MSRP on a non P2 S class should be right around 96,000 USD.
  • gs451gs451 Member Posts: 19
    Hi Car_Man,
    What figures did you come up with on the S400 and S550?

    Thanks
  • bmlexusbmlexus Member Posts: 755
    Hi, ur actually looking for an E class as well? Which I assume is for yourself? :confuse:
  • gs451gs451 Member Posts: 19
    Hi,
    We are considering the E-Class as well.

    Car-Man, do you have the rates?
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Thanks for the additional information, gs451. The more flexible you are in terms of options, the better bargaining position you are in. You aren't necessarily going to have trouble negotiating an attractive deal on a car that has a specific set of options, but it won't help.

    Let's work up a sample payment on this car and see what we come up with. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2010 S550 2WD that has an MSRP of $98,945 and a selling price of $93,580 ($1,500 over invoice) through Mercedes-Benz financial right now for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year, your zero down, pre-tax monthly payment would be around $1,552.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Here's the payment on the S400, gs451.

    According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2010 S400 that has an MSRP of $96,675 and a selling price of $91,470 through Mercedes-Benz Financial right now for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year, your zero down, pre-tax monthly payment would be around $1,417.

    I am not familiar with Edmunds' review of this car so I can't help you out there. Sorry.

    Car_man
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  • hybridman1hybridman1 Member Posts: 1
    Hi Car_man,

    What is the MB financial March lease money factor for S400, 3 years, 12000 miles/year?

    Also, heard the MB Financial lease acquisition fee went up to $1195 from $795?

    Thanks.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Greetings hybridman1. Here;s the information that you're looking for. Mercedes-Benz Financial's March buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2010 S400 with 12,000 miles per year are .00227 and 54%, respectively.

    I bet that the person who told you that MB Financial's acquisition fee increased to $1,195 was a dealer. I say this because the official fee is still $795, but dealers are allowed to mark it up by a couple hundred dollars to pad deals.

    Car_man
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  • samspansamspan Member Posts: 1
    Carman, Mercedes is having their "summer event" and are offerring what appears to be a subsidized lease..

    1399 /month for a 2010 s550 with the P2 package msrp 96000, but it requires 4400 in down payments. is this really a supported lease by mercedes ? is it a good deal for that msrp?
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi samspan. Mercedes is indeed providing lease support on the 2010 S550. In fact, it enhanced its lease program on this car for July. It is now advertising a payment of $1,299 per month on this car. This payment assumes a dealer discount of $2,995. Given the fact that this car probably has a spread of around $6,500 between its full MSRP and its dealer invoice price, there is a decent chance that you would be able to negotiate a lower selling price than this, and in turn a lower monthly payment, if you comparison shop some.

    As fas as this car's lease program goes, Mercedes-Benz Financial's July buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a S550 RWD with 10,000 miles per year are .00179 and 53%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its top credit tier.

    Car_man
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  • storm10storm10 Member Posts: 260
    Right now, in July, is by far the best leasing program on S400 Hybrid. You can get your payment about $300 lower per month than S550, plus save a lot of money on gas. This car has exactly the same dimensions as S550 and have plenty of power.

    The only other Hybrid in this class is Lexus LS600h, but it does not really compete against Benz. You can see the competition between these models here: Mercedes-Benz S400 Hybrid vs. Lexus LS600h Hybrid. This model offers Luxury and Economy at the same time.
  • ellens1ellens1 Member Posts: 9
    Dealer claims that for S-class Mercedes offers either .0017 lease factor or 10K dealer cash - but not both, saying that this is set by Mercedes and not them. Is this true?
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi ellens1. Unfortunately, what you were told is correct. Mercedes does not allow the $10,000 dealer cash to be combined with its special lease program.

    Car_man
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  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A reporter wants to talk with someone who is deciding between a new Lexus, BMW and/or Mercedes. Please email pr@edmunds.com asap with your daytime contact info, your city and state, and the vehicle models currently under your consideration.
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