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Nissan Altima Lease Questions

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Comments

  • sistermarysistermary Member Posts: 2
    Many thanks for confirming my feelings, and steering me clear. Already looked at an 08 Lexus and you are dead on with your comments. I find the Nissan salespeople, my experience and reading others, to be the typical pushy, lying, game-playing stereotypes.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi thame. Yeah, I know that the '08 Altimas are going fast now that the '09 model is available. Unfortunately, I don't know what the inventory situation is like at specific dealers in your area. Your best bet would probably be to use the dealer locator tool on the Nissan web site to search the inventory of specific dealers in your area. You can look at it right on-line, without even having to e-mail anyone.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're very welcome, leasetx.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    No problem, advancetec. We were both right. I worked up a lease on an '08 Altima 2.5 S for you because technically there is no Altima 2.5 SL. There is just a 2.5 S with an SL package. Weird. Anyhow, the information that I provided you with is right,

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  • cameekcameek Member Posts: 1
    2009 S - upgrade to convenience package
    39 months 15,000 miles
    no money down
    trade in a 04 max with 134,000 miles (dealer giving me $6237 for it which is $1k more than payoff..very fair considering condition of car)
    $22715 retail ($500 rebate)
    sales tax $1006
    doc fee $299
    tag $173

    deal comes to $367 m/m

    first time leasee...fair or ripoff
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Here's the information that you're looking for, Rob. Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp.'s current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 24 month lease of a 2009 Altima Sedan 2.5 S Sedan with an automatic transmission and 12,000 miles per year are .00245 and 72%, respectively. The money factor for a 2.5 S Sedan with a manual transmission is the same, but its residual value is 2% lower.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey thame. The best way to tell if you are getting a good deal on a vehicle that you want to lease is to look at its selling price and its money factor. The selling prices of leased vehicles are negotiable, just as if you were paying cash for or financing them. Without knowing what this number is, it is difficult to tell how much of a discount you are being given. If I was in the market for a '08 Altima Sedan 3.5 SE right now, I personally would shoot for a couple hundred dollars over dealer invoice.

    Once you are comfortable with this car's selling price, make sure the dealer that you are working with is calculating its monthly payment using NMAC's buy rate lease money factor for a 39 month lease of it, .00076.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey andy2812. Yeah, I hear that the '08 Altimas are in pretty short supply now. Sorry that you couldn't find one. Through September 30th, Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp.'s buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 24 month lease of a 2009 Altima 2.5 S Sedan with an automatic transmission and 12,000 miles per year are .00245 and 72%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 36 month lease are .00245 and 62%. The numbers for the 2.5 SL should be exactly the same. I do not believe that the addition of navigation has any impact upon this car's lease program either.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi mustangdude182. Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. charges a $595 acquisition fee on every vehicle that it leases. I'm not sure what the "Nissan fee" that you mentioned is. If it's not your car's destination charge, then it may be nothing more than an attempt for the dealer to add profit to your deal.

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  • shermaroshermaro Member Posts: 3
    I'm looking for an 2008/2009 Altima SL and need 15K a year with Zero down. I'm located on Long Island and will to travel to another state for a good deal.

    Can anyone help?
  • escm83escm83 Member Posts: 1
    Hey all,

    I am a recent college grad interested in leasing or financing an altima coupe so here's my story:

    I've been looking at two altima coupes

    2008 priced at 24, 753 online
    2009 priced at 25, 511 online

    I just read that Altima Coupe's dont get the recent grad discount on a lease *sigh* How ever I think if i finance I will get the recent grad discount and I have an internet discount of 500 dollars. I also think all nissans have a rebate on the 2008 models.

    Oh well, my options are still open to either finance or lease.

    I have a 2007 Toyota Yaris, that I am going to trade in for the pay off. I've been to one dealership and they told me my trade in value was about 10,000..however I owe about 12,000 on the car. Thats a 2000 dollar difference.

    My question is: I am interested in a 0 down payment and low monthly payment...whats my best option? Lease or Finance?

    Is it feasible to get a monthly payment for about 400 dollars or less if I finance at that price? Let me know what I shoould do...Im interested in purchasing at the end of the month!

    *let me know if you need more details* pleaaaaaase help!!!!!
  • econdorecondor Member Posts: 5
    I posted this somewhere else too but the cars I am talking about are '09 Altimas 3.5 and wanted to post it here too. Car Man I hope to hear from you about this... This is a little on the long side but I want to be sure to give the whole story. I picked up my new car ('09 Altima - leased) tonight. I left the dealership at 9pm as they were closing. When I got the car over 60mph...the car started shaking - like a rough, constant shimmy - the whole car felt like it was vibrating. It didn't stop until I went under 40-50mph, and I was already about 10 mins away and they were closed. I have the salesperson's cell # so I called him and explained what was going on. Turns out he actually had to personally go and get the car from another dealership today and he told me that he "felt a little something, but not as bad as you're describing it." He suggested I bring the car to service at 7am tomorrow and that they 'should' take care of me since I just got the car and that I would get a loaner if they needed to keep it to 'fix' it. He was trying to tell me it could be a simple alignment or balance issue with the tires. I told him that I am not keeping a brand new car that needs any service other than filling the tires with air.

    What may make this more interesting is I actually had leased a different new car from the same dealer this past Saturday night. We had a deal in place but I wasn't 100% so they gave me the option to 'change my mind' by Monday and let me take the car w/o signing the official contract...I only signed the spot delivery paper and the temp. I brought the car back to them yesterday because of some scratches and scuffs that were much more apparent in the daylight the next day. They did not give me any problems, except a few tries to convince me to stay in the original car. I did some extra research after I knew I was returning the 1st car and I was able to re-work the terms of the deal with them and move up a model - which is the car I just picked up tonight...and I did sign all the papers this time.

    So what should I do...what would you do if this was yours? Take it to service or go directly to sales and insist on a new one? I am having such a hard time rationalizing a brand new car in the shop. I am sure that they will want to 'fix' it and it 'won't be a big deal' but can I insist on a different car, legally?? Thank you in advance.
  • syrsyr Member Posts: 10
    Hello Car Man,
    I just got this quote from my local Nissan dealer, 09 Altima 2.5s with the SL package MSRP $ 26155, selling price: $ 23800, 36 month and 15k miles a year, $500 up front no other fees, $342 a month, how does it sound to you? Also, when you say $0 down lease, are you including all fees in the payment or they are payable separately?
    Thank you very much :)
  • indianajohnsindianajohns Member Posts: 89
    You'll need to post the residual and money factor so someone can accurately calculate the lease payment. Also, what is the $500 up front going towards? Was the $23,800 including the $500 down? You should get a "sale price" QUOTED, also known as Cap Cost. Then you will have at least an acquistion fee added to that. The final tally of car's sale price plus all fees is the NET CAP COST.

    If it is a ZERO DOWN lease, you should walk away not having paid anything at all except maybe the first monthly payment. You are correct in your assumption. Any fees you don't pay up front will be rolled into your lease and will result in a higher montly payment. The real trick here is to NOT pay any fees other than acquisiton fee. If you are assertive enough you should be able to walk out with the only that one fee but you will never get them to waive the acquistion fee. The main thing is to go into the dealer not even talking lease. Just get the sale price of the car whittled down as much as possible. Then try to hold them to that price when you blind side them with "I think I want to lease."
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Wow, that's annoying econdor. I'm sure that the vibration really ruined what should have been an exciting new vehicle purchase experience. What did the service department say about the problem? Were they able to fix it?

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi syr. The car that you're interested in has a spread of around $1,500 between its full MSRP and its dealer invoice price. The selling price that you were quoted looks very attractive to me. Just make sure that the dealer that you are working with is using NMAC's current buy rate lease money factor of .00191 to calculate your monthly payment, which they probably are but it doesn't hurt to check, and you're in business.

    Car_man
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  • syrsyr Member Posts: 10
    Thank you Car man :)
  • rjdilaurorjdilauro Member Posts: 2
    Hi,

    Does anyone have the current residuals and MF for the '09 Altima 3.5 SE/SL?

    What would a good monthly lease payment be on a 3.5SL with Techonology Package, spoiler, and VDC? MSRP is 33,045 and dealer cost 30,466. Preferably 24 month lease.

    Thanks.
  • econdorecondor Member Posts: 5
    Car Man - the service manager spent 15 mins trying to convince me to leave the car alone for 2 weeks because he sees it quite often that brand new cars developed 'hardened inner tubing' in the tires from being chained too tightly in transit...literally was telling me not to worry about it bc this is the case in 90% of issues he sees like this...i wasn't buying it...and it seems everyone else i spoke to since then thinks it was a load of bs...i kept asking him to check the alignment and re-balance all, which he finally did, and wouldn't you know it, i hit the highway and got up my speed, and........smooth sailing......guess those hard spots worked themselves out faster than he expected? lol -- have you ever heard of anything like this?
  • borabora9borabora9 Member Posts: 4
    I signed a lease order which listed the make, model, vin #, residual value, $500 down payment, # of months etc. However, I would like to cancel this order. I am pre approved by the manufacturer as I am a returing customer and I was told by the dealer that they do not have to run a credit check. Have not signed any other papers such as finance contracts. Is signing a lease order a binding contract? I think the dealer might give me a hard time to refund my down payment. Other than the down payment, do I have to worry about any legal problems when canceling a lease order? Thank You!
  • marcogallo1986marcogallo1986 Member Posts: 1,164
    see it was nuthing to worry about I could have told you that after I was done reading your story you have to insist sum thing is rong and you will win in the end trust me they will all try to play there dealer games but there are menny good dealers out there good luck with it nissans are grate cars have a verry good day and thankyou for reading Marco.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    No problem, syr.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Here's the information that you're looking for,rjdilauro. Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp.'s current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 24 month lease of a 2009 Nissan Altima 3.5 SE Sedan with 15,000 miles per year are .00280 and 65%, respectviely. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of an '09 Altima 3.5 SL are .00280 and 66%.

    To be honest with you, you actually would be much better off going with a 36 month lease, instead of a two year lease. NMAC's 36 month numbers are .00191 / 60% for both the SE & SL.

    I worked up a few sample lease payments on the SL that you provided the pricing data for and according to my calculations, its 24 month, zero down, pre-tax monthly payment using a selling price of $500 over invoice would be around $543. The payment for an otherwise identical 36 month lease would be a much more reasonable $407. I told you that the two year lease was no good ;) .

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    That stuff that the dealer told you sounds like a bunch of bs to me as well, econdor. I;m glad that everything worked out for you in the end. Enjoy your new, smooth ride :) .
    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi borabora9. As long as you have not physically taken delivery of this Altima, i.e. driven it off of the dealer lot, you should be able to get out of this deal. The dealer may give you a hard time, but if you are persistent there's no way that they can force you to take the car. Of course, getting your $500 down payment back is another story. Was is supposed to be fully refundable? Even if it was, there is a good chance that the dealer will drag their feet when you try to get them to give you your money back.

    If they gave you a hard time, you stand a much better chance at getting a refund if you used a credit card than if you paid cash or gave the dealer a check. You can dispute the charge with your credit card company if the dealer refuses to play ball.

    Car_man
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  • t_ct_c Member Posts: 13
    Can someone tell me if i'm close on my figures, or if i'm way off??

    2008 Nissan Altima 2.5S Automatic with mats.

    $21,940 MSRP

    -$4,000 Dealer / MFG Discount

    _________________________

    $17,940 Net captialized cost.

    So with using these numbers, 57% residual value, and a money factor of .00191% this would bring a monthly payment of $221.81 including tax.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi t_c. Where did you get that money factor and residual value from? They seem off. Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp.'s current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2008 Altima 2.5 S Sedan with an automatic transmission and 15,000 miles per year are .00066 and 56%, respectively.

    Using these numbers, an MSRP of $21,940, and a selling price of $17,940, I estimate that this car's zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around $177.

    This is not a realistic lease payment though because the selling price that you mentioned is much lower than what you would be able to get on a lease in the real world. I suspect that you used the $1,250 consumer cash that Nissan is providing on 2008 Altima 4-cylinder Sedans right now to arrive at it. Unfortunately, this cash is not compatible with Nissan's special lease program.

    Car_man
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  • doc519doc519 Member Posts: 3
    I am looking for a 2009 Altima 2.5 CVT with convinience plus package. I have a current lease 2006 altima $1000 left 5 more months. I went to a dealer and quoted me with the "cheapest" price according to him $280 for 36 or 270 for 39 months with 500 down and all the payments upfront (tax, title etc.).

    First of all Car_man is this a good deal. Secondly the manager told me I would have to pay the remainder of my previous lease, which was incorporated into this quote. Doesn't the dealer absorb that cost? Last time I was trading in my Maxima for the 06 Altima the dealer took it 6 months earlier and I didn't have to pay a dime. And finally, there is a $500 dollar rebate from Nissan but the manager told me I don't qualify for it due to the fact that I am leasing and not financing. Is that also true?

    Thanks
  • t_ct_c Member Posts: 13
    Well thats misleading. I mean regardless if you purchase or lease, why would the rebate money be different for the two? Its like a sneaky way for the manufactures to draw you in.
  • careyd1careyd1 Member Posts: 15
    Frequently, rebates are reduced or eliminated in situations where below-market financing is offered, whether lower interest on a loan or lower money factor on lease. It's a standard part of the game these days. In reality, what the companies are essentially doing is using the money they would have provided in rebate form to subsidize a lower finance rate.
  • brott8brott8 Member Posts: 8
    Car Man,

    Wanted to get your input. I got the following quote (New York):
    2009 Altima 2.5S Sedan/Auto Transmission with Convenience Plus package
    39 month lease
    MSRP: 24695
    Residual: 61%
    MF: .00216
    Cap Cost: 21931
    Buyout price at end of loan: 14640

    300/mo , 1000 down out the door (includes TTL, acquisition, etc)

    Thanks for your help!
  • photojunkiephotojunkie Member Posts: 1
    Hi Car_man, could you (or anyone of you helpful posters) tell me what the money factor and residual would be for a 2009 Altima 2.5 S w SL, convenience, and convenience plus pkgs. (MSRP: $26,035) with a 15,000 mi. 36 or 39 month lease?Thanks!
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi doc519. It is difficult for me to tell you if the lease payment that you were quoted for this car is a good deal without knowing what its MSRP and selling price are. The selling prices of leased vehicles are negotiable, just as if you were paying cash for or financing them. Without these numbers, it is difficult to tell how much of a discount you are bring given. Let me know what they are and I'll tell you what I think.

    As far as your current lease goes, why should the dealer absorb the cost of getting you out of it early. One way or another you are going to have to pay to get out of a lease five months before its scheduled end date (unless a manufacturer is running a special early lease termination program...and I am not aware of any from Nissan right now). If the dealer says that they are paying your remaining payments for you, that just means that they are not giving you as large a discount on your new car as you would have normally been able to get.

    The $500 customer cash incentive that Nissan is providing on the 2009 Altima in October is not compatible with its special lease program. Neither is the new $500 additional bonus cash enhancement that Nissan just announced on the 22nd.

    Car_man
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  • themousethemouse Member Posts: 17
    Any word on the incentives for November? I'd imagine they'd want to push their cars thru the current economy...
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi brott8. Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp.'s current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 39 month lease of a 2009 Altima 2.5S with an automatic transmission and 12,000 miles per year are .00191 and 61%, respectively. This money factor would increase by .00015, to .00206, if you choose to have your car's security deposit waived. So the factor that you were quoted looks slightly high.

    As far as the selling price goes, the car that you are interested in probably has a spread of at least $1,500 between its full MSRP and its dealer invoice price. The $2,750 discount that you were quoted looks very good to me. If you'd like, you can hop on over to the "Nissan Altima Prices Paid & Buying Experience" discussion to see how much other community members have paid for similar cars lately. Just keep in mind that the cash incentives that Nissan is providing on this car are not compatible with its special lease program.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Greetings mouse. Nissan's October incentive program is scheduled to run through November 3rd. It is difficult to say what its November incentives will look like at this point. I can tell you though that Nissan recently (October 22nd) introduced an additional $500 bonus cash incentive on cars and an additional $1,000 on trucks that's good for the rest of October.

    Car_man
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  • brott8brott8 Member Posts: 8
    Thanks a bunch Car Man. I'll find out what happened with the MF as you stated. And I still feel like there's a little wiggle room in the negotiations.

    I'm currently looking into the Sentra as a possible cheaper alternative.
  • ajpbf7ajpbf7 Member Posts: 92
    If you are going to lease an 09, I would wait. The money factor will likley improve over the next couple of months. The 08 lease deal is pretty nice, but with the 09's already out; the value of the 08 will be less.
  • brokejoebrokejoe Member Posts: 1
    Hi,

    Is this an impossible deal?

    24/12k/ No money down/ Roll everything into payment/ Due at signing is first month and DMV fees, in NY

    For 307 a month?

    This is what the dealer quoted me then said he calculated it wrong and came back with 416 a month.

    Thanks
    Joe
  • themousethemouse Member Posts: 17
    I am interested in the 2008, moreso to save the money. This will be for my business, and I'm still deciding between lease and purchase. I'm meeting with my accountant to punch the numbers later this week, so I should be ready to buy/lease in early November. My guess is that there will be an equal or greater incentive on the 08's... can't go less given that it's almost 2009. Please correct me if I am wrong in assuming this. Thanks
  • ajpbf7ajpbf7 Member Posts: 92
    if it is for your business then I would pull the trigger on the 08. You will likley be able to write off a majority of the cost anyway. if you like to switch cars often liek i do, it would be easier to get out of an 09 vs. an 08. This is do to the higher depreciation of the 08's. Good luck on your lease.
  • themousethemouse Member Posts: 17
    Thanks for the tip. I have no intention of getting rid of the car early. If I get a lease, I will most likely ride it out, or if I purchase, I'll keep it until it is depreciated, and then transfer it to be a personal asset, and buy an upgrade :-).
  • ebettyebetty Member Posts: 12
    Hi Car_man
    Is this a good deal?

    36 MOS
    395 PLUS TAX (6.75%)
    $1000 TOTAL DUE
    33355 MSRP
    30657 SALE PRICE
    60% RESIDUAL
    .00191 MONEY FACTOR

    for
    2009 Altima Sedan 3.5 SL
    Technology Package
    Vehicle Dynamic Control

    $1000 down, 36 mo, 15k/

    Thanks! :)
  • doc519doc519 Member Posts: 3
    Hi Car_man,

    Sorry about not including all the info so here it is:
    2.5 S Altima with Convinience Plus Package in NY
    MSRP: 24695
    Invoice price: 23100 (this includes the 1000 that I have on my old altima lease)
    Residual: 62% (12k/year)
    Mf: .001910
    So the final quote was $280 for 36 months (or 270 for 39) with 500 down and all the rest paid upfront (tax,title, first month etc...)
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're very welcome, brott8. Good luck and make sure to stop back and let us know how everything turns out.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi ebetty. The selling price that you were quoted for this car is excellent. It appears to be right around dealer invoice. The money factor that you were quoted looks great as well. It is right in line with Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp.'s current buy rate for this model. If you like the car, I personally don't see any reason not to pull the trigger on this deal.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Thanks for the additional information, doc519. When you listed the "invoice price" I assume that you actually meant "selling price." The car that you described has a spread of just under $1,500 between its full MSRP and its dealer invoice price. You were quoted a discount of a little over $1,500 on this car. This is a very good price, especially if it contains extra cash to get you out of your current lease.

    The money factor that you mentioned is right in line with Nissan Motor acceptance Corp.'s buy rate for this car. If you like it, I personally don't see any reason not to pull the trigger on this deal.

    Car_man
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  • ebettyebetty Member Posts: 12
    thank you. I am still so undecided!! Still considering Camry, Altima and Accord and now added Saturn Aura to the mix... :blush: Spent all day driving cars and can't find the 'perfect car'.
  • brott8brott8 Member Posts: 8
    Ended up signing. 2009 Altima 2.5S with Convenience Plus. I got them to a 36 month lease instead of the 39.

    287/month, 1000 down + 1st payment + DMV fees. 12K miles.

    I already signed, but just out of curiosity, what's the difference in MF and Residual with 36 vs 39 month for 12K mile?

    Thanks!
  • careyd1careyd1 Member Posts: 15
    I just leased an Altima 2.5 S with SL package today. 36mo/12K per year. This was from Walser Nissan-a pretty well-known 'fixed price/no negotiation' dealership chain here in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area.

    Here is how the car is equipped:
    2009 Nissan Altima
    2.5 S 4dr Sedan (2.5L 4cyl CVT)
    MSRP / Invoice
    G01 SL Package $1,460 $1,327
    H01 Connection Package $1,240 $1,075
    F02 Convenience Plus Package $1,100 $954
    F01 Convenience Package $1,050 $911
    L92 Carpeted Floor/Trunk Mat Set (5-Piece) $175 $134
    B10 Splash Guards $135 $107
    Color Adjustment - - $0
    Super Black
    Destination Charge $695 $695
    Total with Options $27,395 $25,398

    Here is the deal:

    MSRP: 27,395
    Invoice: 25,398
    Selling price 25,395 (that's their first, only and final offer-no negotiation-and is $3 bucks under invoice. I tried to negotiate anyway but they politely declined-it's against company policy) However, I thought the offer was very fair, I just thought I'd give it a try on negotiation! LOL.

    Wrote the lease up as a 'sign and drive'. Paid absolutely zero today. Therefore, the following additional charges were included in the cap cost:

    First Monthly Payment: $378.94
    Title Fee $8.00
    Registration Fees (MN) $289.00
    Doc Fee $75.00
    Up-Front Sales Tax $821.39 (MN 6.5%)
    Acquisition Fee $595

    Total Gross Capitalized Cost is 27563.39

    Residual Value (36 mo/12K per year) $16,984.90 (62%)
    Money Factor .00191 (Tier 1)

    Total Depreciation and Amortized amounts $10,578.49
    Rent Charge $3063.65

    Monthly payment $378.94

    There is no disposition fee, but a $150 purchase option fee if I buy it out at lease end.

    I also went over to the Toyota Dealer owned by this same automotive group (same one price policies), and leased a 2009 Toyota Matrix S today. I will be posting those numbers in the Toyota lease forum as well.

    Yes, two new vehicles in one day! I am stepping down from two much more expensive vehicles, a 2005 BMW X5 and 2003 Infiniti G35. The X5 is at lease end and the G35 I had on a loan. Lowered my monthly out-of-pocket costs by 40% by doing this, which I believe is the right thing to do when staring into a very uncertain economy, although I have to admit, as nice as these new cars are, they just aren't quite in the same class of what I've left behind! But my budget thanks me.

    careyd
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