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2013 and earlier-Subaru Forester Lease Questions

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Comments

  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi milzo. Subaru is not currently providing any cash incentives on leases of the 2009 Forester. As a result, dealer invoice is a very attractive selling price on a leased Forester right now. I highly doubt that you will be able to get one for $1,000 under invoice.

    I would be happy to work up a lease payment on this vehicle for you to double check the dealer's calculations, however I cannot do so without knowing its full MSRP. Let me know what this number is and I'll run a payment for you.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Thanks for taking the time to share the details of your lease, Mplsman. Make sure to stop back and let us know how you like your new Forester. I'm thinking about getting one for my next ride myself. It is a great value. Where else can one get a useful, AWD vehicle for less than $300 per month?

    If you'd like after you take delivery you can stop by the Dealer Ratings & Reviews section of Edmunds.com to share your thoughts on the experience with others.

    Enjoy your new ride :shades: !

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi Eric. Do you know this vehicle's MSRP or dealer invoice price? I ask because comparing the selling price that you were quoted to either of those numbers is the best way to see if there is any room left to negotiate on this deal. You can look these prices for this exact model as you want it equipped over in the New Vehicle Pricing section of Edmunds.com. Let us know what they are and I'm sure that either myself or another helpful community member will gladly give you their opinion.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey Eric. I should have scrolled down before replying to your previous post. Dealer invoice is about as good as it is going to get on a leased 2009 Forester right now. The money factor that you were quoted looks great, too. If you like the vehicle, I personally don't see any reason not to pull the trigger on this deal.

    You definitely should not make a down payment on your lease. Gap insurance only covers the difference between what your insurance company is willing to pay for your vehicle if it is totaled and what you owe the bank that you are leasing it through. Consumers who make large cap cost reductions when leasing risk losing them if their vehicle is totaled.

    It definitely does not make sense to get LoJack on a leased vehicle, unless your insurance company provides you enough of a discount on your premium to pay for it. I personally would rather not get my car back if it is stolen. If your stolen vehicle is recovered, it likely will be pretty messed up. I would rather let the insurance company chalk my ride up as a loss and get something new than have to deal with repairing my old car.

    Car_man
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  • milzomilzo Member Posts: 8
    Car Man,

    Thanks for the reply, I ended up buying the forester with the options i have listed instead of lease. I sent an e-mail to 5 dealers with the exact options and color i wanted (what I listed eariler) and told them getting the best price was my hot button. I ended up getting it for about $600 under invoice. With the 4.99% financing the payment was only $120/mo more than the best lease price I could get and at the end of 3 years I will owe $12k versus the $16 buy-out on the lease. I posted the details of my purchase in the prices paid forum on here if anyone wants to see the details.
  • chuck68516chuck68516 Member Posts: 195
    CAR MAN,

    You quoted the last guy on a 2009 Forester 2.5X Premium, 36 month, 15,000 miles per year as 0.00175 and 60%.

    What is the residual on a 10,000 mile per year lease of this same vehicle? Also, what is the Subaru acquisition fee?

    Thanks.
  • djhalptertdjhalptert Member Posts: 115
    Car_Man,

    I would also like the current lease numbers for the 2009 Forester 2.5X on a 36 month, 10,000 miles per year lease. Also, are the numbers different per trim level on the Forester. Base, Premium, Limited? Thanks.
  • stoopystoopy Member Posts: 105
    I would like the newest numbers on a 2009 Forester 2.5X Limited. 10,000 miles on both the 24 and 36 month leases. Thanks CarMan.
  • stoopystoopy Member Posts: 105
    Car Man are you out there?
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're very welcome, milzo. Thanks for stopping back and letting us all know how everything turned out. If you'd like, you can also hop on over to the Dealer Ratings & Reviews section of Edmunds.com to share your thoughts on your recent dealer experience with others as well. Enjoy your new ride :shades: !

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi chuck68516. For 36 month leases, Subaru's 10,000 mile per year residual value is 2% higher than its 15k residual.

    Subaru actually runs its lease program through Chase right now. I believe that Chase's current base acquisition fee is $595.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Here's the information that you're looking for, djhalptert. Subaru's current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 Forester 2.5X with 10,000 miles per year are .00150 and 60%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of an '09 Forester 2.5X Limited are .00160 and 60%. The numbers for an '09 2.5X Premium are .00160 and 61%.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi stoopy. Don't bother going with a 24 month lease. Subaru is not providing any support on 2 year leases right now. Leasing one for that short a term will provide you with a significantly higher payment than a 3 year lease will.

    Its current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 Forester 2.5X Limited with 10,000 miles per year are .00160 and 60%, respectively.

    Car_man
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  • redbrd1redbrd1 Member Posts: 1
    Can you please give me the lease money factor and residual value for a 2009 XT Limited? I am looking for 36 months and 15K miles per year.
  • stoopystoopy Member Posts: 105
    What were the 24 month lease numbers? I still would like to know if it makes any sense. Thanks.
  • tsxowwnertsxowwner Member Posts: 38
    Hi Car_man

    TMV shows a deal at subaru on a lease of a 2009 2.5XLT Limited w/VDC with no navi

    msrp 28,890, 10k miles/yr, 595 acqui fee, 1000 dealer incentive, cap reduc down pymnt $1,150, 36 months at $308 b4 taxes. At $28,890 msrp, it looks like it is the $28,195 base plus $695 utility pkge.

    i went to the dealer today and they said that was one of the deals in the national program. I also found out the following - it's based on a residual of 60% and mf of .0016. Oh also, it conveniently doesn't include destination fee of $665 (which would raise the monthly lease payment from $308 to $317).

    I like the car, but am interested in a $12k mile lease and no utility pkge. The sales guy said the residual would drop by 1% to 59% for moving from 10k to 12k miles/yr.

    Also, I don't want to put the $1,150 down and also don't want to work from msrp minus 1,000 dlr incentive. I assume even though this is a national program, i can negotiate the lease - right? This kind of slipped my mind in the showroom until the guy said he would take care of the last payment of my current lease.

    so i left and went home to do some more homework. TMV shows invoice at $26,384 and that others are paying $26,639 so $255 over invoice.

    i recalculated the lease numbers based a no utility pkge car with msrp $28,195, 12k miles/yr, $595 acqui fee, $665 destination, and a $26,639 cap cost (no down payment, no dealer incentive). this results in a lease payment of $398/mo b4 tax.

    a few questions:
    - am i correct on the above statement/numbers
    - is the dealer incentive of 1,000 only available if i do the national program and work from msrp or should i expect that i should offer $26,639 minus $1,000.
    - should i come in lower then $26,639. edmunds shows subaru holdback of 3% of msrp (might vary in northeast - where i live). 3% of msrp is $845.

    guidance appreciated
    thanks
  • tsxowwnertsxowwner Member Posts: 38
    car man

    found a few errors in my post so i fixed and reposted

    TMV shows a deal at subaru on a lease of a 2009 2.5XLT Limited w/VDC with no navi

    msrp 28,890, 10k miles/yr, 595 acqui fee, 1000 dealer incentive, cap reduc down pymnt $1,150, cap cost $27,335, 36 months at $349 b4 taxes. At $28,890 msrp, it looks like it is the $28,195 base plus $695 utility pkge.

    i went to the dealer today and they said that was one of the deals in the national program. I also found out the following - it's based on a residual of 60% and mf of .0016. Oh also, it conveniently doesn't include destination fee of $665 (which would raise the monthly lease payment from $349 to $358).

    I like the car, but am interested in a 12k mile lease and no utility pkge. The sales guy said the residual would drop by 1% to 59% for moving from 10k to 12k miles/yr.

    Also, I don't want to put the $1,150 down and also don't want to work from msrp minus 1,000 dlr incentive. I assume even though this is a national program, i can negotiate the lease - right? This kind of slipped my mind in the showroom until the guy said he would take care of the last payment of my current lease.

    so i left and went home to do some more homework. for a no utility package 2.5xlt limited, TMV shows msrp $28,195 invoice at $26,384 and that others are paying $26,639 so seems to be $255 over invoice.

    i recalculated the lease numbers based a no utility pkge car with msrp $28,195, 12k miles/yr, $595 acqui fee, $665 destination, 36 mo., 59% residual and a $27,899 cap cost (no down payment, no dealer incentive). this results in a lease payment of $374/mo b4 tax.

    a few questions:
    - am i correct on the above statement/numbers
    - is the dealer incentive of $1,000 only available if i do the national program and work from msrp or should i expect that i should offer $26,639 minus $1,000.
    - should i come in lower then $26,639. edmunds shows subaru holdback of 3% of msrp (might vary in northeast - where i live). 3% of msrp is $845.
    - also where does excise tax fit in with the monthly payment
    - what else should i be thinking about.

    guidance appreciated
    thanks
  • indianajohnsindianajohns Member Posts: 89
    First of all, I've been getting quotes of $300 to $500 under invoice plus any rebates on every Subaru model I've looked at.

    My second thought on your post is WHAT IS THE UTILITY PACKAGE? Never heard of it, never seen it, never seen it at Subaru.com. The only $695 cost on any/all window stickers I've seen was the Destination Charge. Since June 08 it went up from $665 to $695. I think you may be confusing those numbers.
  • tsxowwnertsxowwner Member Posts: 38
    thank you for clarifying the $695. this seems to make more sense.

    the salesguy had told me $28,890 didn't include destination (hmmm). So I assumed if that was the case - in order to get to $28,890 from $28,195, it had to include an option. On Edmunds, if you choose the forester w/ 28,195 msrp and then click options, it's lists a utility package for $695. here is how it is listed.

    F9V Utility Package
    Includes aero cross bars, wheel arch moldings, rear bumper cover and splash guards INCLUDES U9B and Q9L and P9J and P9A.

    That said, I still think you are right.

    On your first point - I didn't even consider under invoice. Invoice on edmunds shows $26,384. Based on $500 under, this would make a 12k, 36 mo lease, 59% resid, .0016MF and 26,979 cap cost, a monthly of $332 b4 tax. Seems like a pretty good deal.

    i have a few questions
    - you mentioned "plus any rebates". I am not aware of any - are you? There is the $1,000 dealer incentive, but if i am asking for $500 under invoice, would that apply on top of it?
    - is $500 under invoice dipping into the holdback or something else?

    The only other issues i am running into is of all the 2.5 XLT's listed on dealer websites in massachusetts, none are $28,890 since most have a few add ins. I guess if i can get it for under invoice, i am not too concerned with a few adds ins breaking my budget.

    The other issue is, looking at the inventory, there is a limited supply it seems of the 2.5XLT. most dealers list between zero and four of them.There are a ton of the 2.5XL's. Since the supply is low, do you think this will limit my ability to get $500 under invoice? Is the answer any different if they don't have one on the lot and need to get from another dealer. certainly, i have a number of subaru dealers around me so i probably will go to the one with cars on the lot.

    thanks in advance for your responses on the various questions above.
  • indianajohnsindianajohns Member Posts: 89
    I'm not sure why a dealer would ever quote you MSRP without Destination Charge. The base MSRP of a 2009 Subraru Forester 2.5XT Limited is $28,890. The "Utility Package" has an MSRP of $695 also. It is rather unclear what the vehicle ACTUALLY has for options.

    Also, Edmunds definitely needs to update the changed Destination Charge. It has been $695 for over 6 months now.

    I said I was getting quotes of $300-$500 under invoice plus any rebates on several Subaru models. The only bad thing is that there are none available on the Forester. I am not even aware of the $1,000 dealer incentive you are mentioning. If there is a $1,000 dealer incentive then it would theoretically apply. Supply and demand would dictate your ability to get a good price. I haven't even seen a Forester 2.5XT at any of the dealerships I've visited. They may be more unlikely to want to deal on a vehicle that is in short supply. I would definitely look at getting the non-turbo 2.5X Limited if that was the case. It would be way cheaper MSRP wise ($2,200) and also you could easily negotiate a selling price well below invoice. You could get a 2.5X Limited with Navigation for way cheaper than a 2.5XT Limited without.
  • tsxowwnertsxowwner Member Posts: 38
    Here was the deal as listed on Edmunds through the incentives section.

    Leasing
    There may be other leases available. Contact a local dealer for more information.
    Start: 01/06/2009 End: 02/02/2009
    $308 Monthly Payment Calculate Other Monthly Payments
    36 Month Term
    $1150 Down Payment
    NA Security Deposit
    10000 Annual Mileage
    Restrictions Lease based on the 2009 Subaru Forester 2.5XT VDC. Dealer may contribute $1000 towards the $308 monthly special.
    Comments Dealer participation may vary. Incentives and Rebates are provided subject to the terms of our Visitor Agreement. Tax, tags and insurance are extra.

    I think the $1,000 is only applicable to this deal listed - on an XT (not to any Limited cars). Unless someone thinks differently.

    It seems reasonable that I would in a better negotiating position on a 2.5X Limited due to supply. While i agree with you that the savings is $2,200, on a lease basis, it's only $300 a year which is not significant enough in my mind to give up Turbo (41% * 2,200/36). Though their might be additional savings on the negotiation side to consider at the end of the day.

    I didn't test drive the 4 cylinder (plan too now), though it would seem pretty weak without the Turbo. Opinions?

    The cost of Navi is $1,800 - i think I am better off going without that and buying a Garmin.

    Another question I have - if you are getting the car for under invoice, is this digging into the holdback. or maybe other manufacturer to dealer incentives? would like to understand what might compel them to go for below invoice offer.

    I also had a prior question about excise tax. Is this included in the monthly or do I pay that separate. In my current lease, I don't pay separate excise tax - though on my lease agreement I don't see that listed anywhere. maybe it is buried somewhere?

    thanks again.
  • stoopystoopy Member Posts: 105
    The dealer MAY contribute $1,000 towards the $308 monthly special.
    To me this means exactly what it says. The dealer may take $1,000 off of selling price. Maybe not. Probably not. It's definitely not any kind of incentive or rebate.

    I also had a prior question about excise tax. Is this included in the monthly or do I pay that separate.
    What is excise tax? Haven't heard the term excise tax since reading about the American Revolution in high school history class. Do you mean sales tax?
  • tsxowwnertsxowwner Member Posts: 38
    each year you pay excise tax to the state for having a car. it's based on the value of the car - for example, excise tax is $25 per $1,000 of value. so if you have a $20k car, your excise tax is $500. if you buy the car, you get a bill from the state each year. if you lease, it is spread across your lease payments. I actually went back to a worksheet included in my lease agreement for my current car and found the excise tax. it is included in the monthly payment.

    can anyone tell me what a subaru "SOA Executive Demo" car is. Is it strictly a car used by an executive or sales manager type at the dealership. Or could it be a rental car or loaner? from some research, I know that it is not a regular demo.

    thanks
  • indianajohnsindianajohns Member Posts: 89
    "SOA Executive Demo" = Demo. It's just Subaru's way of trying to make it sound better to the consumer who doesn't want to buy a used car.

    I don't know what state you are in but in most states your "excise" tax is called "property" tax. I hadn't ever heard of excise tax either. In my state, I get a bill for property tax when I renew my yearly registration. So yes to license my car for one year (plates, registration, property tax) I pay $350 to $500. I would call your DMV in the morning, if they are open on MLK Day.

    I did some math on the 2009 Subaru Forester 2.5X Limited vs. 2.5XT Limited. If you leased these vehicles at invoice price with nothing down the 2.5XT would cost you $32.71 more per month. It would also cost you an additional $8 per month in gas because you have to put premium (91 octane) fuel in the turbo models. So based on my math the 2.5XT Limited would cost you AT LEAST $40 per month more. As I said earlier, the fact that your dealer is going to have 30 2.5X Foresters and maybe 5 2.5XT's is going to greatly increase the odds of you getting an even better deal on the 2.5X. These numbers were just getting invoice price so assume you can do better on the 2.5X model anyway. Not so sure on the 2.5XT.

    The reason the dealer would sell a vehicle for under invoice = the current market.
    These vehicles have been sitting on the lots for 6 months. The 2010's are just around the corner. Most people aren't looking for new cars in this economy. Dealers are going to have to dip below invoice to move cars. My advice is to go to the highest volume dealer in your area and start making $800 under invoice offers. They will at least meet you half way.
  • stoopystoopy Member Posts: 105
    I did type in Massachusetts Excise Tax car lease into the Google on the internet machine and found the answer. You should try it. I also typed in SOA Executive Demo into the Google on the internet machine and found out that it is just an over worded standard demo. All other questions having nothing to do with leasing should be referred to www.google.com
  • gnnrgnnr Member Posts: 21
    Hola,

    Decided it's time to 'economize' as scary as these days are economically and go from 2 cars and payments/incurance to 1. I have looked around and the Forester is easily my first choice. Would love an XT Limited, but that's too pricey. Was looking to do a 2.5X Limited but then decided to compare features between it and the base 2.5XT model. After some 'soul searching' I decided I could live without leather and climate control and heated seats/mirrors/wipers :)

    Anyway, found a volume dealer local to me and he's got a 2.5XT Limited on the lot. There will be some negative equity rolled up in there, though I'm putting in some money to offset, I qualify for any of their financing or lease options.

    What would I be looking at for this car coming in at a few hundred under MSRP essentially (inc destination) - say $26700. They are throwing in some extras (sub, tweeters, extended warranty) so with my neg equity I'm good with that price. I know what the payments on traditional fin would be all up, but I am leaning lease since we turn over cars so often and haven't done a lease in over a decade.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Here you go, redbrd1. Subaru's current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 Forester XT with 15,000 miles per year are .00160 and 60%, respectively.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi gnnr. You should be able to do better than a couple hundred dollars under MSRP on a 2009 Forester right now. Subaru is not currently providing any cash incentives on it, but dealers seem to be willing to sell this model for a couple hundred dollars over dealer invoice.

    Also, if you're really trying to economize, you might want to take a look at the Forester X instead of the XT. The pick up of the X model isn't bad. It has 170 horsepower. Plus it takes regular gas instead of the premium that is recommended for the turbo. You would be able to shave a decent amount off of this vehicle's lease payment by going with the less expensive model.

    Also, you may want to consider financing the Forester that you want instead of leasing it. Subaru's lease program on the '09 Forester isn't terrible, but if you put a couple grand down you can get a very similar monthly payment by financing it for 72 months using Subaru's special 4.9% rate. If I was in the market for an '09 Forester, I personally would probably rather finance it than lease is at this time.

    Car_man
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  • gnnrgnnr Member Posts: 21
    Car_man

    Thanksf or the reply.

    Around here they are all going for Invoice basically. I'm rolling a bit of neg equity in (my choice).

    I'm not up for the lack of power and performance in any of the NA models.

    Unfortunately, the dealer I was working with has an over inflated sense of what their vehicles are worth, especially a dealer demo. I shoudl be seeing a 2100 mile XT demo for about 1000 - 1500 under invoice (and that's only if it's not been on the lot more than 6 months and in perfect condition) given the miles, but they feel 'that as a volume dealer we never do invoice and for 150 under invoice this demo is a 'steal''. Um, pass... it's a used car in all but name and title, and if they are getting over invoice when none of the other dealers around me are even blinking at or below invoice good luck with that.

    Honestly, I'm out on Subaru. The reps of the dealers here in NJ so far are abysmal, and the 4 I have dealt with are a joke... throw backs ot the 80s in form and all sitting on their sales laurels which are short lived, especially since the pool of buyers with will and good credit/cash is constantly shrinking. Worse part is they think everyone one is stupid and will simply lay down and roll over on a serious low ball offer on trades... way below fair trade values, their lovely closed-source whole sale numbers which are in fact quite made up and well to their advantage even though when it comes time to sell that same vehicle on the lot they will quote out from the consumer guides they won't accept on trade.

    I walked into a Nissan, a Mitsu, and a Hyundai dealer yesterday looking at their well rated and even CR recommended, CUVs and SUVs and was treated correctly and not like an idiot, they made at or above book offers on my trades, and they are dealing at or below invoice WITH incentives (national and dealer).

    So ultimately, Subaru can take a hike. I get that they have a solid vehcile in the forester, and it was my first choice, but they aren' t significantly better than some of the other cross-overs and small suvs out there and in some catagories they are matched or easily beaten depending on comparo. From what I am seeing on the local and national Subaru car forums, I'm far from an isolated case either.
  • tsxowwnertsxowwner Member Posts: 38
    I leased a 2009 X limited and need to go in tomorrow to sign the official lease agreement. Just so I am prepared - is there a disposition fee?

    On the lease that i am coming out of (non-subaru), there is "no" disposition fee per my lease agreement.

    If there is a disposition fee (i'll find out for sure tomorrow), I have a few questions:

    - I was given subaru owner loyalty for the lease and it saved me 1st months payment. If there is a disposition fee, is it waived for me?

    - The deal I agreeded to was $x per month and $y upfront. Neither the saleman nor the biz mnger who finalized the deal ever mentioned a disposition fee (they barely mentioned the owner loyalty until the very end). Since they told me my costs were x+y, do i have recourse?

    - Can i refuse to pay this and have them remove it? If not, I guess i could ask them to cut me a check for it or else i'll back out of the deal.

    - as a separate question, should the security deposit be waived. again, it was not part my "y" upfronts so I think there is no security dep required.

    thoughts?
  • djhalptertdjhalptert Member Posts: 115
    What kind of dealership lets you drive away in the car and come back the next day to actually sign the lease paperwork? Sounds like you may get a little dose of the ol' bait and switch trick. I just hope you didn't write them a check for anything yet.

    If they really want to lease a car they will do it fairly. If not, tell them thanks for the extended test drive and leave. As their front door closes behind you be sure to tell them you are going to a dealer who won't play any games.
  • tsxowwnertsxowwner Member Posts: 38
    where did i say anything about driving away with the vehicle?

    also you didn't answer my question. Doesn't matter - i called subaru finance and they said owner loyalty gets you up to $500 off your 1st payment, no security dep. and waiver of the disposition (which could be up to $300).
  • djhalptertdjhalptert Member Posts: 115
    "I leased a 2009 X limited and need to go in tomorrow to sign the official lease agreement."]

    Where did you say you drove away in the vehicle??? Gee, um let's see...you said you LEASED, past tense. It is inferred. Also, the Subaru acquisition fee is $595 not "could be up to $300."
  • tsxowwnertsxowwner Member Posts: 38
    djhalptert

    Don't confuse acquisition fee with disposition fee.

    the acquisition fee is $595 this is what you pay up front to do a lease.

    the disposition fee is what you pay at the end when you turn your lease vehicle in. for subaru it is up to $300.

    i called subaru. the deal they have now is lease loyalty. if you are coming off a lease, they will waive the 1st payment (up to $500) on your next subaru vehicle waive security on your next vehicle and waive your disposition fee on your current vehicle.
  • stoopystoopy Member Posts: 105
    In talking to several dealers, not a single one of them EVER mentioned anything about a disposition fee. I know that most private bank leases have a disposition fee but I haven't ever heard of an automaker having one. I have leased through Ford, GMAC, Chrysler and never had a disposition fee. What is the deal?
  • djhalptertdjhalptert Member Posts: 115
    My bad, I misread what you said. Although partially due to the fact that the disposition fee is a bull crap fee and should not ever even be considered. Shady, scam artist dealers are the only ones who require dispostion fees. It's just another way to screw the customer. Might as well add the $500 "paint sealant" option (also known as car wax.) Be sure and get the window etching for only an additional $300 too. Normally only banks require the dispostion fee. Never heard of anyone actually paying it when leasing through the car maker's financial entity.
  • ursusursus Member Posts: 128
    Car_man,

    What are the current MF and residual on it for 36 month/10K miles? Dealers in my area advertise "internet price" of ~$2K under MSRP (about $600 under invoice). Seems like a good deal, no?

    Thanks.
  • ursusursus Member Posts: 128
    Also, for XT with the same terms.

    Thanks.
  • jacmyoung2jacmyoung2 Member Posts: 20
    In today's paper I saw a local ad (N. CA):

    2009 Subaru Forester 2.5X, Model 9FA

    $0 drive off, $199/mo. plus tax for 39 mos, 10K.

    Thank you.
  • gdtrfbgdtrfb Member Posts: 5
    Long time reader, first time poster here.

    I just got the following lease offer:

    Forester 2.5X Limited
    MSRP: $27,233
    Negotiated price: $25,503 (~$100 over invoice)
    MF: 0.001847
    Residual (58%): 15,795
    Cash due at signing: $479 (1st month payment included)
    Monthly payment $366 +$20 tax = $386
    36 month 15k miles

    I have 3 questions.
    1. Did the MF for February 09 change from 0.0016 in Jan to 0.01847?
    2. Is 58% the residual for a 2.5x Limted (it was quoted a few posts above as 60%).
    3. Does it look like there is any room to move in this deal.

    Thanks in advance!
  • tsxowwnertsxowwner Member Posts: 38
    Hi

    I just leased almost the same car as you at the end of January.

    my money factor was .0016 so i agree, it looks like it went up (their program changed effective Feb 3, so it seems reasonable - though can't say for sure)

    my lease is 36k/12k miles - my residual is 59%. if I had done 15k miles my residual would have been 58% so it looks like residuals didn't change.

    you should confirm that 25,403 is the "real" invoice as opposed to the dealer invoice which may include a load - profit for salesguy, marketing etc.

    in any case, I think you can ask for and get UNDER invoice if you are willing to shop around a little and negotiate firmly.

    I got about $800 UNDER invoice. I did have a doc prep fee of $300 so if you don't have that, then it would be $500 under invoice on an apples to apples basis.

    Keep in mind, dealers have something called a 'holdback' - which for subaru is 3% of msrp i believe. Usually this is not negotiable, but in this economy they NEED to move cars so even if you get the car below invoice, they are still making money. the holdback on my car was about $1,000

    here are my numbers
    msrp 27,333
    cap cost 25,345 (which includes the 595 acquisition fee)
    .0016, 59%
    322 per month (before tax)
    700 due at signing (1st, plus doc fee plus title etc)

    You may want to confirm your numbers again - based on what you posted for msrp, residual, money factor, and negotiated price, i get to a monthly payment before tax of $345.95 - but you are showing $366 so there is something missing in your deal?

    here are my calculations of your numbers
    (25,503 - 15,795)/36 = 269.67
    (25,503+15,795) * .001847 = 76.28
    total = 345.95

    thoughts?
  • gdtrfbgdtrfb Member Posts: 5
    Thanks for the info tsxowner! I had no idea one can calculate the monthly finance charge using the formula (Cap Cost + Residual) * MF.

    I thought something was a little off as I could not get the numbers they gave me to work out when using the LeaseGuide calculator. The wife and I decided the options were not worth it and we are planning to lease a 2.5x Limited with none of the options. Here is the offer I am going to email the sales person on Monday:

    MSRP: $26,690
    Cap Cost: $24,500
    Residual Value: $15,480 (58%)
    Money Factor: 0.001847
    Term (months): 36
    Sales tax: 5.5%

    Monthly payment: $324.52 + tax ($17.85)
    Cash Due at signing: $479.56 (includes 1st month payment, title, etc)

    The cap cost is $500 under invoice (according to edmunds), does this offer sound reasonable?

    The lease is up on our Jeep commander on Feb 27th. Any idea if there is any advantage to turning the jeep in early and transferring the plates as opposed to getting new plates for the Forester and keeping the Jeep till the end of the lease (i.e. are plate transfer fees less than new plate fees)?

    Thanks again!
  • tsxowwnertsxowwner Member Posts: 38
    No problem. Here are some thoughts:

    keep in mind, in some states, PZEV is required to be added to the car. This is $200 and doesn't show on TMV unless you add it in under optional features. Do you know if the it's required - if so you won't find a vehicle with 26,690 msrp, it will be $26,890. take a look a dealer websites.

    regarding you lease numbers. the pure math on your lease numbers is correct.

    However, keep in mind there is a $595 acquisition fee when leasing a subaru - this goes to the leasing company and is usually added to the cap cost, if not paid up front.

    So based on the numbers you posted, you are indirectly saying the cap cost of $24,500 includes the $595. If you ask the dealer for a $24,500 cap cost, you are asking them for $1,095 under invoice (or said another way you are asking for $500 under invoice and you want them to cover the $595 acquisition fee). Either way, you are asking for $1,095 under invoice. That said, I would GO FOR IT! - worse case they say no, but are more likely to meet you between $500 and $1,000 which would be great. REMEMBER - the economy is TERRIBLE, they need to move cars!!

    You might consider sending the same offer (first) to a few other dealers - send it to the website address they list. If any of them say ok or offer you something close - then take that to your dealer and ask them to better it.

    in your email:

    - tell them the exact car you are looking for, color, options etc
    - tell them you have already test drove and are looking to buy this week, but are doing some shopping around
    and list out the deal you are looking for (you don't need all the details) just these:

    MSRP: $26,690
    Cap Cost: $24,500
    Term (months): 36
    15,000 miles per year
    No upfront costs from you except 1st month and title

    They will have MF, residuals and should get to your monthly.

    You should look at the inventory on the dealer websites to see what they have. you might find that they don't have many "base" models so you may need to be willing to go with an option - in order to get the color you want. though keep in mind, the website is not always up to date and if you want a car, they can get it.

    you might consider the autodim/homelink mirror - it's cool and on a residualized basis, it's about $2 a month.

    Another good thing to know is rule of thumb on how the numbers work - this way if they have something different then the current numbers you are focused on you can figure out what the difference is. Based on your numbers keep this in mind:

    For every $500 change to your cap cost (up or down), your monthly payment with tax changes about $16 per month.

    cap cost increase of $500 so (500/36 + 500 * .001874) * 1.055 = 15.64 call it $16.

    For every $500 in additional options you add (so long as they are pre-installed - i.e. not installed at the dealer), your monthly payment will go up about $5 month. This assumes the invoice of the options is 85% of msrp for the options - which is roughly ok.

    Regarding plates, I do not think you can transfer plates for a lease. You will need to get new plates regardless.

    Regarding waiting until 2/27 or turning your jeep in now. That won't get you anything assuming your Jeep is not worth more than the buyout price (you could check that). You will need to turn your jeep into a jeep dealer - i believe and will also need to get it looked at "in advance" - i would contact the jeep dealer on who to call/schedule an appointment.

    If you will have trouble getting transportation, you should schedule your Jeep drop off and Subaru pick-up on the same day and ask the Subaru dealer to pick you up at the Jeep dealer. That said, unless you have parking issues, you could also keep both vehicles for a short period of time.

    hope this was enough info - let me know what you hear back from the dealers if you have questions etc.
  • 335xiguy335xiguy Member Posts: 37
    Hi, can you please provide the current money factor and residual (36 mo, 15K per year) for a 09 Forester 2.5x premium? Is it any different for an XT?

    Separately, does anyone know if PZEV is _required_ in the state of California?

    Thanks - David
  • tsxowwnertsxowwner Member Posts: 38
    from edmunds TMV under options description

    PZEV Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle: Required on vehicles sold in CA, CT, MA, ME, NJ, NY, OR, PA, RI, VT and WA.

    don't know answer to residual question
  • gdtrfbgdtrfb Member Posts: 5
    Thanks tsxowner, I live in WI so no PZEV :)

    I emailed the dealer the above offer, but haven't heard back yet.

    In the mean time, I called another dealer in WI and asked for the MF for a 2.5x limited 36mo 15k mile lease and he stated it was 0.0016 not the 0.001847 I was quoted! I guess I will just email offers to the other 12 dealers in wisconsin with cap cost of 500 under invoice and see if I get any takers.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi ursus. Here's the information that you're looking for. Subaru's current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 Subaru Forester X Premium with 10,000 miles per year are .00160 and 61%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of an '09 Forester XT are .00160 and 62%.

    $600 under dealer invoice is an excellent selling price for a leased '09 Forester right now.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Welcome aboard, gdtrfb. Subaru's buy rate lease money factor for the 2008 Forester 2.5X did not change in February. It's still .00160. Something's off with the number that the dealer quoted you. However, the 36 month, 15k residual value of 58% that you were quoted for this vehicle is correct.

    $100 over dealer invoice is an excellent selling price for an '09 Forester. Just make sure that you get the money factor issue straightened out and you're in business.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi 335xiguy. Subaru's buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 Forester 2.5X Premium with 15,000 miles per year are .00160 and 59%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of an '09 Forester XT are .00160 and 60%.

    Car_man
    Host
    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
  • tsxowwnertsxowwner Member Posts: 38
    Car_man

    In this economy, I think any dealer would salivate over someone willing to pay $100 over invoice.

    My forester was $700 under invoice. I would consider that an excellent price. I think negotiations need to start at $500 under invoice for any car.
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