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Ford Focus: MPG-Real World Numbers

13

Comments

  • kam327kam327 Member Posts: 115
    You're missing the point - your Tribute was probably rated about 20mpg combined. But you only got 14mpg due to your driving habits, which is 0.7 of 20. So it's reasonable to apply that 0.7 to the Focus's combined rating as well. And wouldn't you know it 0.7 of the Focus's combined rating of 31 is 21.7. That's what you should expect to get.

    You can't expect one car to perform significantly better relative to its EPA rating than another car on the same route.

    And the Yaris - how many days have you been driving it? You need at least 3-4 days of the same type of driving to compare apples to apples. It's the high time percentage of driving with a cold engine that's killing your MPG (on both your Tribute AND your Focus). In other words, many short trips versus fewer long trips is bad for fuel economy.

    It is not a "recall" you're talking about, it's an "FSA" which means it's voluntary. If you're talking about the forum "focusfanatics", there are many on there who've had it done and 99% praise the results. They love it. I haven't seen anyone complain of reduced fuel economy afterwards.
  • revssrevss Member Posts: 20
    If 21.7 is what I should expect than that should've been the number that was in bold not these other superfluous numbers that apparently aren't real. Again, thats what I based my purchase on. If I had seen 21MPG I might as well have purchased another Tribute because I was getting 21MPG when it was new!

    In regards to the Yaris I've had it for 3 days driving the same route and actually more aggressive and have seen better gas mileage, 26MPG, what I expect to see from my focus based on the posted MPG, so please explain.

    "Recall" is what the dealer called it and they didn't say that it was voluntary.
  • kam327kam327 Member Posts: 115
    Wait a minute, you just said you were getting 14 mpg in the Tribute on your commute.
  • revssrevss Member Posts: 20
    I was but when it was new I was getting around 20-21.
  • kam327kam327 Member Posts: 115
    OK well the point is, as simple as I can make it, you were getting roughly 23% below the Tribute's EPA city rating, and now you're getting roughly 23% below the Focus's EPA city rating. That's very consistent and should really not be a surprise to you. You're not going to achieve the EPA city rating on any car on your relatively severe commute (from a fuel economy standpoint). So don't bash the Focus because of it. Did you bash the Tribute on all the forums when you weren't achieving its city rating?

    You've had the Yaris for 3 days which means you're probably reading 26 mpg from the on board computer, which can often be way off on most cars. When you fill it up exactly as you filled it up to begin with (assuming you did) and calculate the mileage, you may find it's only 23-24. But wouldn't you expect the Yaris to get much better mileage than the Focus? The Yaris is 10% shorter, weighs 20% less and has 33% less horsepower. I sure hope it gets better fuel economy or the world is coming to an end.
  • revssrevss Member Posts: 20
    well you're basing that 23% rating on the Tribute 10 years after I've owned it with 100K miles compared to a new car. I don't think thats a fair comparison.

    As far as the on board computer goes, its accurate. I've been keeping track of my MPG and it aligns with it.

    All I'm saying is I keep hearing oh its how you drive or when you drive or what you have on etc. And all I'm saying is that if those EPA numbers aren't real, then they should be changed. Period.

    I have a co-worker who has a 2010 Focus that drives much more harder and aggressive and get better MPG then I do and was quite surprised as well.

    Anyways I'm not bashing I'm just asking around.
  • kam327kam327 Member Posts: 115
    Everyone knows fuel mileage tends to get better with increased miles. Less internal engine friction and what not. Your Focus mileage will only get better unless you don't do maintenance and have dragging brake pads or something.

    How can you have checked the Yaris's computer with a fill up and hand calculation if you've only had it 3 days?

    The EPA numbers are real - for most people. One number is not going to cover everybody. Most posters on focusfanatics report beating the EPA numbers consistently, including me.

    And if you took the time to read it you'll notice the EPA sticker has a range of ratings. The Focus's city rating says "Expected range for most drivers 22 to 32". So you're on the bottom end of that range. So the EPA ratings don't need to be changed just because you can't achieve them due to your short city commute.
  • revssrevss Member Posts: 20
    So let me ask you this. What is your definition of City and Highway driving?
  • kam327kam327 Member Posts: 115
    For the purposes of EPA ratings, 'city' and 'highway' are specific test cycles developed by the EPA for car manufacturers to test their cars against to determine numbers with which consumers can cross shop different brands and models. A car's city rating does NOT tell you what you WILL get in the city, it tells you what you should get relative to another car. If Car A is rated at 30 and Car B is rated at 32, you should get roughly 7% better fuel economy in Car B in most driving conditions, but not necessarily 32. If you got 20 mpg in Car A, you should get 7% better, or 21.4 mpg in Car B.

    That's it. And that scenario holds perfectly true in your Tribute / Focus comparison.

    Look, I'd like to continue to help you understand but I'm exhausted and frankly I don't think you're going to get it.

    Best of luck to ya........
  • revssrevss Member Posts: 20
    I agree I don't think you're getting the picture. Again its not valid to test against the tribute because its not new and its got a lot more miles. You need to compare it to another focus.
    You're comparison is apples to oranges. Like your previous example comparing the focus to the yaaris. In that comparison you stated that the Yaaris was lighter and shorter thus giving me the extra MPG. The tribute has a much bigger engine and is all wheel drive and is much heavier.
    I should expect to get at least 25MPG in the focus compared to the tribute based on the EPA City average not the bottom of the barrel.

    I do agree I think its time to move on from this conversation.

    l8.
  • 17inches17inches Member Posts: 5
    A drop this pronounced could be attributed to increased traffic or, most likely, worn out spark plugs. I would suspect the spark plugs (or other mechanical problem) , but I supposed it would already failed an emission's inspection, which really points at some heavy traffic.
  • joegiantjoegiant Member Posts: 90
    Either the onboard computer is lying to me or this thing is consistently beating the gov sticker that was on the car when purchased brand new. Again, have the SE 5spd sedan, 90% hwy driving mostly ABOVE posted speeds ;) , dash is telling me 36.7mpg. I'm so cool with this based on the fun factor the car brings in the corners + the price point of the car overall. Strongly suggest for anyone reading here and doing their research, check out the 2012 Focus MANUAL tranny models. Can't say enough about it. Not sure about all the automatic transmission hub-bub that's out there. Fun factor is there when you drive a standard trans. You and the car connect. Even when I hand wash 'er in the driveway, THIS Ford, I swear is talkin' to me. :)
  • bwhittle216bwhittle216 Member Posts: 7
    For actual mileage; divide the numbr of gallons you put into your tank after fill-up to total miles driven during that episode. Congratulations if you are getting that mileage. I haven't been so fortunate yet. I filled up 5 times, resetting my trip miles at each tank refill and devided the miles each time After the 5 fillups I divided the total gallons into the total miles from thosecombined fillups and got 29.81 mpg. Boo Hoo. Not happy about that.
  • kam327kam327 Member Posts: 115
    Congrats on the 36.7mpg. I'm averaging around 33 overall in a suburban commute with lots of stops but some stretches of mpg-optimum 50mph.

    Beware though, my dash calculator has been consistently about 1-2 mpg too high. You may actually be looking at around 35 mpg, which is still good especially if you're driving fairly aggressively as you allude to doing.

    I have the DCT and while it did have some early growing pains it has smoothed out (normal break in?) and works pretty much flawlessly now.
  • rlc001rlc001 Member Posts: 9
    We just picked up our new 2012 Focus Titanium HB in Sonic Blue with Sport Shift, Winter, Roof, Navi, Parking, and Remote Start. This car was built on 5/27/12 so it has all the latest fixes on the DCT and the MFT and is part of the Job#2 built which included the 4-way head rest and the flex fuel badging, in addition to the fixes on DCT and MFT. So far the car runs great! On 1 highway trip from south Denver to CU Boulder, the car computer registered that 45 mile trip to have a 54.5 MPG!!! Gotta love that if it is a true figure. Car is still too new to tell if that MPG is way over estimated by the car computer. Car still only has ~350 miles on it. So far so good and we are loving the car!
  • kam327kam327 Member Posts: 115
    That may very well be the figure while you were on cruise control and going more downhill than uphill (a good possibility in Colorado) and with a tail wind. But don't get your hopes up, such a figure in unachievable when you include the off-highway city driving before and after the highway part of the trip, and on other highway trips when you may have a stiff headwind or are going uphill. Good luck.
  • rlc001rlc001 Member Posts: 9
    I did another round trip yesterday Denver to CU Boulder to Denver (~90 miles total) and averaged over 39+ MPG with normal (spirited) driving and not on cruise.

    How have your MPG been now that your car has been more "broken-in" since new? Still love your car with no regrets?
  • johnplisapjohnplisap Member Posts: 8
    So far not so good on the mileage. Hopefully it is true that the car needs broken in to get a good mpg. So far getting about 19. Almost all city driving. Lots of hills and stops. Anyway i bought the car to save on gas. My Impala gets only 15 mpg (epa rated 18 and 29.) I was hoping to get 25 mpg and said if I got 23 I would be happy. 19 sucks actually.
  • revssrevss Member Posts: 20
    hi there.

    how many miles do you have on the car? I have 2300 and am averaging about 21 with mostly city driving. I'm with you I was hoping to get at least 25MPG for city but it doesn't seem to be getting that.
  • kam327kam327 Member Posts: 115
    Hey guys, mileage should improve maybe 3-4 mpg after a couple thousand miles of break in. But you also gotta remember that 4-cyl cars have a much greater variation in mileage due to driving habits than 6 or 8 cyl cars. Heavy city driving will put you further below the EPA city rating than in a 6 or 8 cyl car.

    One important trick to remember is to coast to lights or stop signs whenever possible. As soon as you see a light up ahead turn yellow start coasting. That shuts off the fuel and gives you free distance, greatly increasing your mpg.

    I'm getting 33 mpg in suburban commuting, some long stretches of 40-60mph road but also lots of stops and some city driving at the other end.
  • bwhittle216bwhittle216 Member Posts: 7
    It should not make that much difference in mileage being a four cylinder. Besides, I haven't heard the spokesperson for Ford give stipulations to the 40 mpg that they advertise on their brand.
    I previosly exceeded mpg on a Mazda3 with a four cylinder engine. Hopefully my mileage of average 29.48 will improve with the adjustments Ford did for my focus se hatcbback. That rating was an average of 5 fillups of 100% gasoline with 80% driving on 4 lane highway. I'm hoping for the best! They did get my sync system to operating properly so that was an improvemet.
  • kam327kam327 Member Posts: 115
    "It should not make that much difference in mileage being a four cylinder."

    In my experience with my cars it does. The 4-banger just generally has to work harder to move that mass around town. And to run the a/c.

    "Besides, I haven't heard the spokesperson for Ford give stipulations to the 40 mpg that they advertise on their brand."

    Ha ha, that's funny. When have you ever heard a manufacturer make real world stipulations about the EPA ratings of their cars? That's the reason for the lawsuits surrounding the Honda Civic electric and the Hyundai Elantra.

    "I previosly exceeded mpg on a Mazda3 with a four cylinder engine. Hopefully my mileage of average 29.48 will improve with the adjustments Ford did for my focus se hatcbback. That rating was an average of 5 fillups of 100% gasoline with 80% driving on 4 lane highway. I'm hoping for the best! "

    Well you're exceeding the Focus's city rating anyway. Depends on how many stops you have on the 4-lane highway - are you talking about an interstate or a suburban/country road? Mileage will improve over the first couple thousand miles as the tires wear down a little and the engine internals break in, reducing friction.
  • johnplisapjohnplisap Member Posts: 8
    Seriously, there is no good way to spin getting 19 mpg on a 2012 Ford Focus. Mileage may vary, driving habits, blah, blah blah. Engine needs broken in----- then buy my gas until it is broken in. I am not asking for the mileage that you guys are getting. Honestly a combined 25 mpg would thrill me. Absolutely no way I would have bought this car if I knew 19 -20 mpg was all I was going to get. I drove about 80 highway miles on Sunday and the mileage went up a little but now is back down.
    maybe I just got a bad one??????
    For those of you getting in the thirties can you honestly tell me that you were getting only 19 when you first bought the car?
  • bwhittle216bwhittle216 Member Posts: 7
    I agree with you wholheartedly!
  • revssrevss Member Posts: 20
    I'm with you John.

    I purchased this car based on the published EPA numbers and figured I'd get close to them but not entirely miss them. I do most of my driving in the city and I get between 20-21. When I do highway I may get about 27. I've tracked my mileage since April and I'm averaging about 21 MPG with 2400 miles on the car. I love this car I do but the mileage currently sucks. Once it reaches 3K I'm turning it over to the dealer to have them really look at it.
  • revssrevss Member Posts: 20
    John,

    which model Focus do you have? I have the Titanium.
  • johnplisapjohnplisap Member Posts: 8
    I have the SE. The thing that gets me is that everybody keps telling me at Ford or the dealer that , "mileage may vary, the car needs broken in , and driving habits...... (means you suck at driving.) I just want a car that is going to get more than 240 miles on a 12 gallon fill up. 300 would be great. that would 25 mpg combined. i could live with that.
  • revssrevss Member Posts: 20
    Thats EXACTLY how I feel. The break in period, as stated in the manual, is 1000. I've been told by my dealer its at least 7,500 which is my first service. My friend who purchased a 2010 AWD four cylinder Subaru Outback gets better gas mileage than I do! I should at least be getting 300 MPG out of a tank of gas. I'm getting the same MPG as my 2007 Honda Odysee which is about right for that vehicle. Not this one!
  • johnplisapjohnplisap Member Posts: 8
    So I went to the dealership and talked to the sales manager. I knew it was a bad idea because he doesn't have the power to really do anything. I let the salesman talk me into meeting him. First thing he does is roll his eyes, smirks and says the car needs broken in. Then he says we can get it into service next week. Gee thanks.
    I leave pissed. As I am about to leave he stops me and tries to talk to me. He says I am computing it wrong and I am getting a combined 22 mpg (first of all i am not wrong, second even if he is right, [he isn't, btw] big whoop on 22 mpg combined.) He tells me that I am not understanding the point. I told him that I am very intelligent and that he is treating me like a [non-permissible content removed]. He says very angrily, "there is just no talking to you!!!!!" I said, "You're an [non-permissible content removed], hows that?" and left.
    So I was almost out of gas and being very stupid decide to run to empty to get a real gas mileage reading. I ran out of gas at 249 miles from the last fill up. Btw that includes 80 miles of straight highway at 60-65 mph driving. So I have exact numbers but I am being unreasonable because I refuse to wait for the car to break in. A mechanic at the dealership actually said it would take up to 9000 miles to get the car broken in.
    He said it was a learning transmission and that I needed to understand that. (the sales manager not the mechanic said that. )
    Anyway this is my last post on the subject until I get 3000 miles on the car. Either that or trade it in before that. I will let you guys know.
    Honestly I hope I am wrong and the car gets 30 mpg combined. in this case my wallet saving gas money trumps my ego on being right!!!!!! But in the meantime, Ford owes me some gas money!!!!!
  • revssrevss Member Posts: 20
    Hey there,

    I;d actually like to stay in contact with you as I am having the EXACT same issue. Just not sure how to go about doing this. This forum doesn't seem to allow for private messages??

    Ron.
  • johnplisapjohnplisap Member Posts: 8
    Ron, I just joined a Ford Focus forum that has private messaging. Here is the thread that I started:
    http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=294273

    Maybe you could join and post in that thread.
    Btw, everybody I don't want to hate my Focus. I am just concerned especially after talking to a lot of other Focus owners who are in the same boat as me (not just here)
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    All you have to do to allow other registered Edmunds forums members (and ONLY registered members) to contact you directly is to click on the Forums Preferences link that you'll find in a box at the top right of any forums page that you're on. Then change your E-mail Setting to "public". That way, any registered forums user can click on your username and contact you via email.
  • revssrevss Member Posts: 20
    Yeah I understand. It would just be nice to have a private message feature that leverages a built in messaging system instead of broadcasting your email out even to registered users.
  • johnplisapjohnplisap Member Posts: 8
    Three things happened on Thursday that made me change direction. First I googled "real world gas mileage," The first result was a Consumer Report's " 'real world' gas mileage test results."
    The Focus SE finished 12th in it's class. The City mileage? 18 mpg!!!!! To be fair the highway mileage was outstanding at 43. But most of my driving is city. Not only city but the worst driving conditions you can imagine: Lots of traffic, a TON of stoplights insane hills, tunnels inside of mountains that produce long lines of just waiting and terrible merge points that tie up and/or slow down traffic.
    As far as the car "breaking in", I am a firm believer that the very most improvement on mileage after the car is broken in is 20%. Not enough to satisfy because the only reason I bought the car was to save on gas.
    The second thing was that the car (once again) sputtered and hesitated going up a steep hill. Despite its 160 horses, the car just doesn't have the oomph needed for my driving. It was "funny" to see the avg mpg on the computer go down several miles as I was going up the hill.
    I just don't like the transmission.
    Third was pulling on to the main street from my neighborhood. There is a sharp bend on the main road right where we need to pull out. So you need to make sure it is clear as best you can and then press on the gas and go. Hesitated again, and a car was coming around the bend very fast. Not a comfortable situation.
    So, I said screw it. I drove to the Toyota dealer and traded it in for a Corolla. It had the best combination of price and "real world" city mpg that I could get. I lost some on the Focus but with the finance rate I got, The payment was only a little higher. I did put a thousand down, though. That sucked because I put 1500 down on the Focus. The dealer offered a lifetime powertrain warranty though.
    To be fair, I have a 2007 Focus that I beat pretty good and it gets very good mileage and has more than suffecient power. It has 60k miles on it. I use it for work (mostly my head cook uses it,tbh) This 2012 is nowhere near that car. Second, I just don't think this was the right car for me and my driving conditions. If I was on a flat land with less stop and go I am sure I would have done better.
    After 5 full days I am happy with the Corolla. I will post my ending mileage on the first full tank when it gets to zero. According to the computer I am on pace for 340 miles on a 13.2 gallon tank. This is the same city driving I did with the Focus (without the straight 80 highway miles.) My guess is going to be about 310-320 when it is said and done. So that means 60- 70 miles more on a .8 gallon bigger tank. It has suffecient power for the little engine it has and I can drive without worrying about having to "baby" it or put in 93 Octane gas.
    This is my first Toyota. I hope it lives up to my expectations. So far so good but we will see.
  • kam327kam327 Member Posts: 115
    "Three things happened on Thursday that made me change direction..."

    I would love it if you could do an unimotional comparison of the Corolla and the Focus over a few tanks of gas and document that you get significantly better gas mileage with the EXACT driving habits and routes. That would be very interesting. Because as I showed you on focusfanatics.com, the Corolla is just as subject to getting low fuel economy as the Focus is in extreme city driving conditions.

    If you look on fuelly.com, the overall average mileage of current gen Focus owners is slightly more than the overall average mileage of current gen Corolla owners, even given the Focus's significantly higher horsepower and much better driving dynamics.

    Regarding the consumer reports data you found, the more important number to most folks is the combined overall mileage they got with the Focus. It was right in the middle of the compact class despite the Focus having the most horsepower and quickest acceleration (according to CR testing) of the class. That's pretty impressive.

    Based on all this it seems clear to me that either you will get low fuel economy with any car you drive because of your particular route and habits, or there was something mechanically wrong with your particular Focus that could have eventually been solved.
  • johnplisapjohnplisap Member Posts: 8
    To be honest (I really mean it) I agree with just about everything you wrote.
    The thing is, if you remember my posts on the other site, the ONLY reason I bought the car was for the mileage. So I figured if I wouldn't get the mileage I didn't want a car that I didn't like.
    I 100% agree that I can get a bad car from anybody. I do agree that there may have been something wrong with that Focus. The problem is getting Ford or the dealer to understand and appreciate my concerns was a losing battle. Only the salesman cared at the dealer and at Ford, nobody cared at all.
    I didn't want to post on the other forum because the name of it is "focusfanatics," I figure I would get lambasted there. I guess you saw that somebody else posted the same stuff I did about the mileage.
    There is no emotion left in me on the subject. I'm cool. It's over. I will post more when I go through a whole tank of gas. The thing is though, even if the mileage ends up being the same I think I will be happier with the Corolla because of the performance.
    Reminder--- I really like my 2007 Focus. I don't hate Ford and it pained me to buy a Japanese car. I respect that Ford is American and they didn't take bail out money. Plus the Ford dealer is a mile away from my house. I wanted it to work. Plus the interior is nicer on the Focus and I also like the exterior look of it over the Corolla.
    Last thing about dealing with Ford...... they seemed relieved to get rid of me as a customer. No help at all. They ignored my requests to speak to anyone with any kind of power, not even their immediate supervisor.
    The dealer was no help at all.
    With my hectic life (mom and pop restaurant owner [75 hours a week] with two young children) sometimes it is easier for me to throw money on the problem rather than wait for the solution.
  • kam327kam327 Member Posts: 115
    "With my hectic life (mom and pop restaurant owner [75 hours a week] with two young children) sometimes it is easier for me to throw money on the problem rather than wait for the solution. "

    Well I sympathize with you on that. It usually is tough to work fighting with a dealer into a busy schedule. Sounds like you got a bad dealer though. Might've been worth it to try another.

    Not sure how the Corolla's performance can compare given it's got 128 hp and 4 speeds versus the Focus's 160 hp and 6 speeds. Your Focus's dual clutch automatic may have been a little sluggish during break in (e.g. going up the hill you mentioned) but most owners report that it smooths out and performs great over time, and performs much better than any conventional torque converter automatic (e.g. the Corolla's).

    Even Edmunds says the Corolla has "mediocre acceleration and fuel economy."

    Anyways, best of luck to you and your family. Don't know if you considered it but the thousands $$$ you say you lost on the trade would have paid for a lot of the gas you think the Focus uses in excess of the Corolla.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    At the end of the day, it doesn't sound like it came down to the FE by itself. Based on my experience with that automatic transmission, I think John's driving conditions are the worst scenario for it. I spent a few days in Morgantown, WV (lots of steep hills and stop/go traffic), with an automatic Fiesta a few months ago, and that car would have driven me crazy if I owned it and lived there. Were it manual, I'm sure my impression of its hilly city manners would have been far better.

    It was lovely on the highway though, and returned a combined FE of nearly 42mpg in 25/75 driving (city/highway, respectively).
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • johnplisapjohnplisap Member Posts: 8
    "At the end of the day, it doesn't sound like it came down to the FE by itself. Based on my experience with that automatic transmission, I think John's driving conditions are the worst scenario for it. I spent a few days in Morgantown, WV (lots of steep hills and stop/go traffic), with an automatic Fiesta a few months ago, and that car would have driven me crazy if I owned it and lived there. Were it manual, I'm sure my impression of its hilly city manners would have been far better.

    It was lovely on the highway though, and returned a combined FE of nearly 42mpg in 25/75 driving (city/highway, respectively)."

    LOL, I am from Pittsburgh!!!! Mogantown is about 75 miles south from me. Pgh is like Morgantown on steroids and lots of them. Plus we have those tunnels, etc....
    It's funny to me the statement you made because i kept on saying that where I live this car NEEDS to be a real manual transmission, not this automatically controlled stick !!!! I never said anything because I thought people wouldn't understand and think I was crazy or stupid!!!!!
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    Hilarious! Nope; I don't think you're crazy at all. The MT would have been a better fit for the conditions. Even if your Corolla doesn't get better FE, I suspect that its transmission, even though it is viewed as old-fashioned, will perform much better in that environment.

    I flew into Pittsburgh (my first time there, even though my wife is from Meadville), and drove to Morgantown and back. I specifically requested the Fiesta because I'm considering it to buy and thought this would work out as an extended test drive (though I wouldn't consider buying an automatic, regardless of type).

    I was surprised at how hilly the area was. Even on the interstate, there were some pretty decent grades. The problem with the transmission is that it operates like a manual, but it cannot anticipate conditions like a driver can - it only reacts. I swear I would have ended up with whiplash had I driven through many more dimly-lit parking garages at 5mph. Also, it certainly didn't seem overly responsive off an initial start, at least from my perspective having driven "slushbox" automatics at various times in the past. Once you started it moving, though, it would get up and go pretty well. I generally let off the brake, let the car engage some forward momentum for a second, then get into it.

    Aside from the transmission, the car was really fantastic. It was quiet, well-planted, peppy-ish (much more so with the MT), good visibility, and great fuel economy.

    I'm looking at the Focus now, too, though, since they now offer it throughout the trim levels with a MT. And, it is only rated a couple MPG lower on FE than the Fiesta, but with quite a bit more cargo volume.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • al63017al63017 Member Posts: 149
    I read with interest what you said below and I always thought if the dealer you bought from did not help another dealer would even be less help. Do people actually go to other dealers if the bought from does not help? I would like to think you could but just never thought thought it was possible.

    "Well I sympathize with you on that. It usually is tough to work fighting with a dealer into a busy schedule. Sounds like you got a bad dealer though. Might've been worth it to try another."

    Thanks
  • kam327kam327 Member Posts: 115
    Sure you can. I get my cars serviced at the nearest Ford dealer even though I've never bought a car from them. They still get paid by Ford for warranty work so they're happy to work on your car regardless of where you bought it from.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    Same here. I always try to buy my cars locally, but the local dealers apparently have their inventory plated with gold before the paint goes on. So, I usually end up buying in Seattle and flying down to bring it home, but warranty work is still done at the local dealer.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • kam327kam327 Member Posts: 115
    "The problem with the transmission is that it operates like a manual, but it cannot anticipate conditions like a driver can - it only reacts. "

    Spoken like a true lifelong manual driver. You just described every slushbox in 95% of cars sold, like, ever.

    Now I understand the dual clutch transmission is not at its best in some circumstances, particularly bumper to bumper traffic. But hilly terrain? You guys do realize most Focuses (except for the basic stripped down models) come with Select Shift, or manual shifting mode? So that you, the driver can anticipate upcoming hills and downshift as appropriate? Seems like that would've solved the problem of the hilly terrain.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    I don't know about the select shift. I'm not sure the Fiesta I used had it and, if it did, I didn't notice it during that short time.

    The dual clutch is a bit different than many other automatics, including CVTs, in that it has an "engage" vs. "disengage" aspect. That's the primary problem with transitioning from a stop or going at extremely slow speeds. When starting, it has a delay in engagement from the moment of input, and at very slow speeds, it quickly does an engage/disengage cycling that can be noticeably felt. It isn't harsh, per se, but I sure found it annoying. I guess the best way to describe both issues is that the car doesn't feather the clutch.

    Like I said, it worked well for me overall, and it didn't have any problems traversing hilly terrain. The hilly terrain in a city environment just made the start/stop traits more pronounced. My opinion is that the DCT automatic is the worst transmission choice for John's driving conditions.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • kam327kam327 Member Posts: 115
    Correct, there is no torque converter in this transmission like there would be in a conventional automatic so there's no fluid damping of the connection / disconnection of the engine / transmission. It's just like any other manual transmission, the clutch is engaged, disengaged, or slipping a little which I understand the DCT is designed to minimize because it's hard on the clutch.

    The main benefit is fuel economy and feeling more connected to the engine. Look at the new Dart with its similar 160hp 2L engine BUT conventional 6-speed automatic - it's only rated at 24/27/34 mpg versus the Focus's 28/31/38.

    Ford's Select Shift is standard on most Focus trim levels / option packages. I imagine it would be perfect for hilly terrain where you'd want to downshift before you get to the uphill grade.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    I agree that it has a noticeable impact on fuel economy. Just the fact that the automatic is rated higher than the manual in EPA testing is evidence enough of that. Often, too, do CVT automatics that don't experience the loss of efficiency through a torque converter. Real world reports don't necessarily mirror EPA results in that regard, but at least if you're paying more for the transmission, you aren't taking a FE hit to go along with it.

    Paddle shifters are nice for allowing additional driver input into the selected ratio.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • kam327kam327 Member Posts: 115
    Yep, the CVT is how the new Altima gets the same EPA ratings as the Focus despite being larger, heavier and more powerful. And looks like Honda's going the CVT route. Too bad they're so unpleasant to drive!
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    I have little experience with them. I did do a test-drive on a Legacy 2.5i Limited last year just to try out the transmission, and I found it very nice for an automatic. Twenty minutes can only tell you so much, though. It was smooth as butter, but definitely felt much different than any other auto transmission. As far as familiarity of feel, I didn't find the DCT all that different from a torque converter, but it sure sounded different when it shifted gears.

    I like the frequent inclusion of "manumatic" modes on today's automatic transmission choices, especially when it is my car (in other words, I use it day in and day out rather than just a test drive or rental), but it isn't a substitute for a manual transmission.

    When the FE numbers are significantly higher on the automatic, though, such as on the new Subaru offerings, it sure makes me pause and justify how much I prefer the MT as compared to the potential hit I'll take at the pump over the long term.

    Some of the differences, like with the Focus, are negligible if any. Others, like with Subaru, are likely to be reflected in real world experience. With the right gearing, though, that would never be an issue. :cry:
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • danjerqdanjerq Member Posts: 1
    My 2012 Focus is currently getting 31.2 mpg..or Averaging 7.2 liters per 100km..not the 54 mpg they claim on the window sticker..The salesman dont bother complaining until youve had it for at least a year they wont look at it for that reason
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