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Honda Civic Coupe vs. Scion tC
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Comments
"As for the new Civic. Finally saw the new coupe and was not at all impressed. I've owned a Honda and am a fan, however, I'll take the tC over the Civic any day. "
I followed a new Civc Coupe a month ago and was impressed. I saw a Civc Si and was really impressed.
I'll take the Si over the tC anyday. differnet strokes for different folks.
MidCow.
I had no idea about the "no haggle" pricing standard put in place by Scion. I learned about it from the dealer that showed us the car. If I had known about it, I wouldn't have tried, but the salesman was frank about that fact, which is fine. I liked the Scion tC, it just felt a little unfinished inside as compared with the Honda (things like the very cheap feeling sunroof covers, and folding stereo cover). The Scion is a screaming deal considering the features offered, and obviously my issues with the interior are relatively small, and many buyers are likely never to take issue with it. More power to them, because they just got a lot of car for $18,000!
The Civic is ok, but just ok by me. The only model I would consider would be the si and that's for the performance not the looks. But then again, now you are talking a big difference in $ as compared to the tC as well as a different intentioned, if not class, of car.
Hard to knock "Car of the Year" but there is a lot competition out there. In the end, I'm more than satisfied with my tC and glad I didn't wait for the new Civic.
Can't argue with you about how the interior compares to the Civic. I didn't care for the Civic Coupe exterior enough to get that far.
The tC is a very good car, also. However, to be fair the Tc would require the turbocharger to equal the performance of the Civc Si and when you add the turbo charger the costs are pretty much a push. Even the regular tC gets less miles per gallon than the Civic Si and much less than the regular Civics.
Each car has its special features and both are very reliable.
Civic Si on Order, "What A Commuter Car!"
MidCow
By the way, did finally get a look at the inside of the Civic. What's with that dash? One glance down to assimilate several key bits of info is the ideal dash set-up. With the Civic's, there are split locations. BIG thumbs DOWN. What were they thinking with the digital speedo? At worse it is a distraction, at best it is "unsporty"
I applaud the effort for Civic to be a little daring, but to me the dash is a deal-killer. Nice try, but no thanks. I would probably eventually warm up to the exterior, but sure do not want to look at that dash everyday. Especially can't imagine warming up to the digital read-out. Too much competition out there to have to make a consession on something you have to interact with almost constently while in the car.
With every TRD toy available, the tC would just keep up with an Si (in a straight line.) Limited slip diff, much higher torque peak, and a tighter and lighter body make it clear that the Si is better designed for racing and to be thrown around twisty roads.
It's easy, though, to be hard on the tC when you don't consider the price. Having driven cars that are actually 'fast', my test of an '05 tC was disappointing. I tried to keep things in perspective when I tested an '06 last week, and I was not disappointed. The 2.4 is as powerful as anything that vehicle could *competently* make use of and, while I'm sure a S/C would be fun, base is plenty of engine to have fun with. Anyhow, in my mind, any performance deficit is outweighed by the low price and well designed interior. (The gauge cluster being a minor exception, IMHO)
On merit alone, the Si is the vehicle I would choose flat-out. The price and availability, though, make it clear that it fills a very different market role than does the tC. The going price for an Si is well over MSRP, and the area in which I live is capped at 14 units for the model year.
Comparing to the standard Civic EX works, but I'm not sure how competitively priced it is. From what I see, the closest competitor the tC has is the MAZDA 3 S. Very similar numbers, perhaps the Mazda is a bit more 'sporty', but are you REALLY trying to get a 'sporty' car for $17k?? More to the point, do you want to haggle the Mazda down to within a few hundred of the tC?
This is WAY too wordy... in short; my tax refund is going toward a tC.
I'm anxiously awaiting my 5 test drives I have scheduled for this weekend, and just wanted some feedback as to what I should pay special attention to, or what you guys thought about my choices.
1st: I'm going to drive the 06 si tomorrow morning. Very excited, but from what I was told on the phone, its some copper color that I am not familiar with.
2nd: (little high) 06 V6 6speed Accord - if its as great as I think it might be, I might be able to justify the higher payments on it. I have never driven any accord, but I have heard nothing but great things about them.
3rd: The following morning I am going to drive the 06 vw GTI (NOT THE 05, the NEW one.) Its a DSG paddle shift 6 speed. I can't wait to see how the new transmission performs.
4th: (Lower budget) The Scion tC (figure it will leave me room for a Supercharger, some nice wheels, and a new Television haha.
5th: 05 Subaru wrx (NON STI, drool . . .) wish i could afford the STI, but don't think insurance would fly too well.
Having just landed my first real job and thank god I'm not married and DON'T have any kids (knock on wood) haha just I've got some money layin around for a new car that gets better than my trucks 18 mpg.
However, I am hoping to head to Law School in the next 18 months and am on a limited budget due to the fact that I want the car paid off in 18 months.
What would you guys suggest I check out? What do you think about my choices?? I love aftermarket parts - but not crappy ricer looking stuff, more along elegant performance upgrades. IE: NO BIG WINGS!!!
Let me know, any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
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THE CIVIC SI
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I drove the SI first. I was wrong, it was actually a cobalt grey color that was suprisingly nice. Great looking car.
My first impression of the car was as I got into the driver seat and closed the door. Talk about smooth. The door closes like a 50,000 BMW. Great build quality, I was smiling already. Also (I'm 6'0") I was suprised as to how perfectly the new zany dash layout worked for me (the steering wheel went right where it was supposed to go.) I do agree about the seatbelt though, you really do have to reach WAY back there for it.
Anyway - on to the driving experience. From 6800 to what seems like 8100 rpms, the motor screams. I've driven nothing but V8's my whole life, so I'm accustomed to torque. I Was very worried about the 135 lb/ft of torque, but in this agile little car, it didn't seem to be an issue! I love it.
this car had no nav, and no performance tires. THE DEALER offered me 19990 PLUS a "touch of class" fee of $1995 which he described as "paint preparation and scotch guard".
I laughed in his face and told him that he had one chance to shoot me straight and he once again bs'ed me so I got up and walked out without looking back.
Found the same car closer to my house for right at MSRP with no bs fees.
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ACCORD 6-speed MT- EX
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Chose the si over the accord. I'm 23 years old, and granted that its fast, powerful, responsive, black and a coupe, I could help but feel like I was 35 or so when I drove it. It feels SO much heavier than the SI, which of course, it is. I would absolutely be all over this car if I was 10 years older and married. Its very smooth, but doesn't really feel SPORTY.
On another note, the new Nav system is not great, but it is the best NAV system I have played with. I still don't understand why people order NAV systems when you can get such a BETTER system from GARMIN that is a TOUCHSCREEN for half the price of the pre-installed factory system.
Great car, just too old for me.
TOMORROW I DRIVE THE OTHER CARS!!!!
Thanks for the great reviews.
I am an old guy and I like the 2005 6-speed Accord Coupe; my first new car was a 4-speed 1970 442. However, I am still very young at heart and I have a 6-speed Rallye Red 2006 SI on order for "fun". I plan to change exhaust and add cold air intake.
Good luck on your car quest. I think you have already driven the best on you list. Let me know how you like spooling up the WRX. And when you go to VW, ask to meet their service manager and look at how dirty their service area is (that is unless it is different from all other VW service areas I have been too). You will probably like the drive and feel of the VW though, just remember reliability and future service.
Going to a car show tomorrow to look at the car you really want a $91K BMW M6.
Double Sixes,
MidCow
its nuts.
Yeah, I'm 23 years old - and I am proud to say my first was a 1970 BUICK GS with a 455. Talk about torque. I currently drive a 2000 silverado regular cab stepside with the 4.8 liter 5-speed with a performance clutch, eaton posi rear end, headers, reprogrammed ecu and a 2" drop belltech sport suspension. Rubber provided by Hancook via 275/45/20. I love my truck. I don't want to get rid of it, but I'm going to law school and need a more economical car. (or so I tell myself, I'm pretty sure that since my truck is and has been totally paid for for awhile that not only will my insurance go up, but suddenly i will HAVE A CAR PAYMENT. I justify this to myself via GAS MILEAGE, you can tell I'm still a kid) hahah anyway, I'm tryin to convince myself that selling the truck i love but have grown too accustomed to (no longer NEW and special) is a wise decision seeing as how it has 140k miles.
what do you think Midcow?
You can't really go wrong with the accord. It seems to have the nicest standard equipment in it, and looks pretty decent in the 2 door version. The handling feels substantially tighter than a lot of cars in the same class. The aftermarket support isn't spectacular for the newer ones, but if you know a little bit about what you're doing, you can easily make some nice modifications.
The VW is certainly an exciting car, but it somehow feels cheap to me. My girlfriend's sister has one, and I borrowed it one night, and just wasn't all that impressed. It has some kind of interesting and unique interior features though, I guess.
I've liked the scion TCs since they were released. Decent looking, lots of room, an engine you won't have to spend money on for repairs. There's a decent amount of aftermarket support, but nothing spectacular.
The Subaru is my personal fav. It depends on what you're going for, though. Of my two cars (2004 Maxima SE and 2002 WRX), the WRX is by far the most fun to drive.
I'm going to go in a little more detail about this one, since I've always thought it was quite a lot better compared to other things.
It offers AWD, which if you're in an area with snow or rain, is very helpful sometimes. You can't really burn out with them stock without overinflating the tires, but that's a good thing in my opinion. If i'm not mistaken they're the quickest out of this group by quite a lot, they're EXTREMELY stable at high speeds. The only issues I have with the new ones relate to styling. It offers 4 doors, which I'm really glad to have sometimes, gets very decent fuel mileage (even driving like a maniac I can get upwards of 24 in the city, highway mpg depends heavily on your speed).
The cons are that there's a substantial amount of turbo lag, but if you're willing to put in a couple hours of work, and buy a new air filter, you can cut it by several hundred RPMs. Either way, downshift and the lag isn't a problem... And the speakers are basically made of thin paper. And although the handling overall is really quite decent, I wish the steering ratio was a little smaller so it would feel as capable as it is.
Oh, and HUGE aftermarket support... other than vettes, I can't think of any car, especially without selling tens of millions, that even comes close... and there are a ton of ways to cosmetically improve them without making them look trashy.
With that said, I think the accord is a great choice if you only need two doors, and don't need too much acceleration. It's great looking, and a few simple things can be done to the exterior to make it even better. Of course you'll want to do that, since you'll be driving one of the most common cars around (at least in this area).
The subaru offers the same (if not a higher) level of quality. Overall I think the subaru feels a lot more solid compared to the accord. I drove the accord while looking for a car last year, and even though I bought the 04 maxima, the accord felt better pretty much all around, mechanically.
Sorry that was so long-winded.
"but why aren't you considering an rsx (type s or otherwise)? they're not exactly the most reliable car in the lineup, but very solid overall. "
RSXs are very reliable; did you have a bad experience with Acura ?
Also the WRX increase engine size from 2.0 to 2.5 and the turbo lag is supposedly much less noticeable. I test drove a 2.0 WRX and yes there was substantial turbo lag.
Cheers,
MidCow
I just purchased a Civic EX Coupe for 17831 including destination, which compares well with the "no haggle" TC price. Although the listed horsepower is different, they feel about the same to me, but the civic handles better and gets better mileage. I haven't compared, but the Civic feels lighter.
I find the Civic IP very intuitive and entertaining. The speedo is right above the steering wheel rim so you always know, without even trying, how fast you are going. When you're busy downshifting into a hairpin with a yellow 15mph sign on it, it becomes a very useful feature! The tach is a slight glance down, where the speedo and tach would normally be anyway. It works great and looks awesome.
The Scion tC holds it's value, in fact, I was checking on Kelley Blue Book.com the other day and a 2005 Scion tC was retailing for $19,490! They actually go up in vlaue!
I test drove a 2005 Scion tC RS 1.0 and found the 160 horses to be more than enough power for me. More than enough. A semi-throaty exhaust sound straight-from-the-factory, too. The Scion tC wins this battle, hands down, dudes.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
The rake of the windshield is more radical than some exotics that I have seen including the Acura NSX. Love the curves on the front fenders and how they blend into the headlights. The Civic is not a drivative design except for the headligths which I think they copied the Infinit FX to a small degree.
Contrary to many posters in this forum I loved the two tiered dash design which is very futuristic and fun. The interior plastics were nice to the touch and I thought the curves and shapes were elegant. All of the controls fall readily to hand, excellent ergonomics.
The EX had the very powerful stero and I thought it was just ok for sound quality.
The power was just adequate and the gas milage looks fantastic. Why would anyone want the hybird when the base car gets 40 MPG on the highway?
Toyota (Scion) and Honda are fantastic cars and we are faced with two great choices here.
The Scion as someone mentioned previously is somewhat derivative in design but very pleasent. A combination of Volvo and BMW which is probably a smart move on Toyotas part. If I am not mistaken you have to pay extra for side airbags on the Scion.
The fitment on the Honda panels were some of the closest tolerances that I have ever seen even compared to a Lexus.
Another great car to compare these two in price point, fun and gas milage would be the Mini Cooper if we wanted to expand this forum,
Cheers,
My tC was better for the buck (under 19,500 b4 taxes), even with all the accessories I had put in when I ordered it (lip spoiler, Scion security, 6-disc CD changer, and side air bags). The panorama moonroof is the coolest thing. Love that my back seats can recline because of the hatch back design.
Th Civic has an over-stuff/bulky looking steering wheel, the two tier instrument (almost as bad as having it in the center dash like a Saturn Ion), and what's up with the upside down door handles inside. It felt like it could easily break being that way when I test drived one.
The Civic deliever comparable acceleration 0-60 with the Scion (Civic Sedan 5MT did it in 8.0 sec according to Motor Trend's Car of the Year Test). This is identical to the 0-60 number produced by Scion tC.
While being just as quick as Scion, the Civic also offers 7-10 MPG more than the Scion (Civic 30/38-40; Scion 23/30-31), a HUGE deal to some people shopping in the $15k-$20k class. At $3 a gallon, an extra 10 miles per gallon will amount to a huge savings over several years of ownership.
Over 50,000 miles, assuming both cars average at their EPA Highway estimates you will buy:
1667 gallons of gas for the Scion
1250 gallons of gas for the Civic
You will spend over $1250 MORE in the Scion at $3 a gallon. Unfortunately, if prices yesterday around Atlanta are any guide ($3.10), $3.00 a gallon will be cheap by next year, and the amount spent will only diverge more. Drive a car 170,000 miles like I have? You're looking at a minimum difference of
5667-4250gallons = 1417 gallons * $3 = Over $4,250. Nearly more than a year's tuition at University of Alabama at Birmingham, where I currently attend. Suddenly, to the buyer who keeps their car a long time, the Civic just became the cheaper car.
The stereo cover was something I couldn't live with (Again, personal taste). I don't like it in the $18k Scion, and think it looks ridiculous in the $35k Avalon. Just another pointless part to break, for me.
I understand the dash design is love/hate. I got used to it in the 10 minutes that I drove the Civic. I also liked the Scion's design, except for the stereo cover. The climate control was neat looking, if a little fussy to operate compared to Honda's simple design (or Camry's for that matter).
It felt like it could easily break being that way when I test drived (drove) one.
When I looked at the Scion, the first thing I noticed was the cheap moonroof cover that was as flimsy as having a pull-down shade for my back door of my home.
(almost as bad as having it in the center dash like a Saturn Ion),
No way I can agree here, the Honda puts the information CLOSER to your line of sight, meaning less time off the road, and that realistically, you can see the speed in your peripheral vision. The Saturn requires turning your head and looking down.
The Civic isn't the car for you, and there's nothing wrong with that, but a blanket statement of greatness from one car to another isn't ever going to be true.
Both cars are quite good at what they do, the Civic just seems to do them better to fit my needs (e.g. same speed, MUCH BETTER economy).
If I was worried about how I spent my money when it came to gas, I would have bought a hybrid, but those don't do it for me. Either way, everyone is going to have to buy gas for their cars no matter how much you end up spending. As for the whole 0-60 mph, I'm not going to anytime soon or ever slam my foot down on the gas from a stop to get to 60mph in 8 seconds. Don't tend to race my car anytime soon. Everyone has their preference and I have mine and I was just putting my thoughts into the topic.
I have a '03 Civic EX coupe to and she's still great on gas. Civic is my everyday car from home to school and vice versa and my tC is for my night out of the town in Vegas. The new Civic just doesn't do it for me style wise, like my '03 Civic better.
From what I've seen TC has more standard features except for side airbag --
17 inch alloy (tC) versus 16 inch non-alloy wheels (LX). (Not sure if this is better for everyone; is tire size affected by wheel size, and if so, is it generally more expensive to replace a bigger tire? I'm curious).
tC has steering wheel audio controls, LX doesn't. tC has 6 speakers 160 watt, LX has 4 speakers and same 160 watt.
tC has keyless entry; LX doesn't.
tc has one touch power up and down driver and passenger windows; LX has only driver one touch up and down.
LX has side airbags standard; tc doesn't.
Putting these things on an LX or upgrading to EX puts the price of Civic well above price of tC.
________________________________
Acceleration is actually about the same. tC has around twenty more horses, but it's also around 250 pounds heavier. Weight of tC with manual transmission is 2905 lbs.
Civic has better gas mileage, around 7 or 8 mpg on average. Can go an extra 90 miles or so on a tank of gas with a Civic.
Civic was Motor Trend's Car of the Year recently. I think the 4 door Civics look really cool (depending on the color), tC also looks good and tC has a certain distinctiveness on the road definitely.
I'm going with a tC because, among other reasons, I actually like the idea of an extra 250 pounds, I like the idea of a stable, solid car (not saying Civic is unstable).
Yes, as a general rule, larger wheel/tires are more expensive to replace than smaller ones.
The mileage difference is on the order of 10 MPG better in the Civic, for similar acceleration.
I can't decide which looks better, Civic Coupe or tC.
Scion is great for its price!
The difference in fuel cost is not that significant between the TC and Civic in realistic conditions. We have both cars in my house hold.
Both cars are first rate and it comes down to personal taste.
Regarding the comment on tires in the winter, no low profile regular tire is good in snow. For that you need real snow tires (all weather tires is a marketing not performance designation).
I didn't see a comment about snow tires, just tire size :confuse:
And with tire size, usually the larger the wheel and the lower the profile of tire, the cost goes up.
For example, a 215/65 16 tire will likely be cheaper than a 215/50 17 tire.
If you have one driver with a specific driving style (fast/slow or smooth/wild), the car's miles per gallon should be the difference in fuel cost (not the driver). If multiple people with multiple driving styles drive the same 2 cars, then you will not be able to see the difference.
If you follow the owner's manual on how to maximize your MPG, you will definitely see the 10 MPG difference that the Honda Civic has on the Scion TC (40 MPG Highway compared to 30 MPG Highway with an automatic DX). Also, the Scion TC can be deceptive in its MPG because it has a larger fuel tank than the Civic (14.5 compared to 13.2).
When it is compared on looks alone, the Scion TC is a clear cut winner in my opinion!
False, LX has keyless entry, mine do :P
"tc has one touch power up and down driver and passenger windows; LX has only driver one touch up and down."
False, Driver have both, mine do :shades:
"LX has side airbags standard; tc doesn't."
True, plus the front, and corner panel
"Putting these things on an LX or upgrading to EX puts the price of Civic well above price of tC"
True and False, Mine was less than tC, base on the price online
Plus: foglight, auxilary jack, mud guard, 12 cd changer (add labor/cost for $400), courtesy light, sirius radio, navigation systems (add myself for $300), custom fit door handle light ($10) :shades:
tC is not a bad looking car. My cousin drive a tC. The two good thing I see that my car doesn't have was the sunroof, alloy wheel
False, Driver have both, mine do
I'm afraid you didn't understand this part, as my dad has an EX (2007 Sedan) and even it only has driver auto up/down, not passenger side as well.
Everything else is right.
When it comes to performance, the regular Civic (DX-EX) outperforms the Scion TC in breaking distance, turning radius, miles per gallon, and reliability. The only exception is in Horsepower (160 to 140). When compared to the more expensive Civic Si, it is out performed in every department.
I have not heard anything positive from consumer reports mentioning reliability with the Scion TC. You do with the Honda civic.
http://www.consumerreports.org:80/cro/cars/pricing/best-worst-in-car-reliability- -1005/best-worst-models/index.htm
Civic EX coupe 5 speed A/T $40,111
TC 4 speed A/T $39,788
Civic LX coupe 5 speed A/T $35,633
I went for a test drive, & was surprised by the TC's difficulties I had shifting (ie. getting into gear), partic. downshifting in an emergency stop. The 2nd issue was merging into traffic due to the obstructed left window view (do drivers no longer worry about blind spots?).
I think I know how to drive a manual, considering the age of my clutch. I heard there is a big transition in going from a Honda to a Toyota manual. Therefore I do not know if my difficulties driving the Scion were due to this transition/myself, or due to the Scion’s transmission design.
From the posts it sounded as though it was easy to burn through clutches during the break-in prd. Should I worry about that? Can someone answer these questions, and provide the correct way to drive a Toyota manual and how to avoid damaging the engine via revving as well as the clutch due to the learning curve?
I am certain there is someone out there who can get me on the right foot with the Scion. I would hate to cross her off the list bc I drove her incorrectly.
Tx so much for your help!
If it was a real emergency, why would you bother downshifting? Why not apply the brakes and then apply the clutch when the engine gets down to 1000 rpm?
The tC has been my first manual transmission and I'm generally satisfied with the shifting.
Have you test-driven a Civic coupe?
I thought that the tC has quite good reviews on the shifting/transmission. Hadn't heard anything about grinding gears or manufacturer recalls...
I didn't quite understand you when you said "...it's the downshifting that pulls me back" in reference to braking/downshifting. When I downshift, I always rev match so that there's no jerk of the car, and the car slows down quicker of course because of the increased resistance that comes with being in a lower gear (or else I might downshift to speed up, in which case I get better acceleration from being at a more favorable point along the torque curve, peak torque is at 4000 rpm). I might very well also apply the brakes at the same time (in the lower gear) to slow down, and may downshift again. It's fun. Sometimes I approach a light and downshift through the gears with rev-matching and no jerk of the car (and no sudden deceleration, the whole process is very very smooth) and apply the brakes for the first time when I'm at like 3 mph (at which point I would depress the clutch and shift from second or first, as the case may be, into neutral. It's supposed to be better to stay in neutral at stoplights and off the clutch than to have first gear selected and the clutch pressed in, slightly better for the car).
Recently, I've started car shopping for myself and I went to testdrive manual versions of the tC and Civic LX. I care more about handling than features so I approached the testdrive differently than the previous one. I tried the tC first and was very disappointed at the transmission. It was rough and hard to shift smoothly. Also, the engine had good grunt at low RPMs but lost steam at higher RPMs. Feeling a bit let down, I headed over to the Honda dealership and tried a manual Civic LX. I immediately fell in love with the Civic package. Steering was sharp and the steering wheel had a nice weighted feeling to it. The shifter was just awesome. I could immediately make buttery-smooth shifts.
So my conclusion is:
Automatic Transmission -> Scion tC
Manual Transmission -> Any Civic
Actually, the sunroof IS standard on the EX (which is the top-model), but not available on the LX, and not offered on the Fit. You are right when you say the Fit was meant as a city car, but there is nothing that would hamper it taking 1,000 miles at a time. The only thing is that it has shorter gearing, which means it will rev higher at speed than a Civic will, which may get annoying to you. Best of luck, and keep us updated on your search for your next vehicle!
exiting a turn and the sales guy said because of emission
controls you have to drive it gently.Wrong answer!Across the street was the Honda dealer so I dropped into to see
if they had any Civics and they did.I drove it and was blown away with the package.Sure it needs more torque but
you have a choice of leaving it in D and get 30 mpg or drop down to D3 and operate where the torque is.The only problem is I expected my wife to drive it but she does not like
it because of her long legs and when parking in the parking structure at work she can not open the door wide enough.