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Comments
Before buying my Versa, I looked at the Focus, the lease payment would have been higher then what I'm paying for my versa for the same lenght and Mileage.. Even with the incentives ford gives the Focus was higher payment, so which car is better ??
Tony
Since I have one more year before my lease is up, the new Murano for 08 is due out by the end of the year, that looks like my next car..
TOny
Toyota knew exactly what they are doing. They did not want the 5-door Yaris to compete with the 2008 Scion Xd which will be on the dealer lots later this month. It's based on the same platform as the Yaris.
Nissan was reported at 132 problems per 100 vehicles.
Averave was 125 problems per vehicle
Oh and Ford was at 120 problems per vehicle.
Mercury finished at 113 ppv one behind Toyota at 112 ppv.
SO your anti american sentiment is not supported by the facts.
And if you are looking at leasing, don't compare a Versa to a Focus, look at the Fusion.
Thanks.
those studies are usefull, as the do point to quality of manufactur and assembly, but says nothing about how that car will be in 3, 5, or 10 years. those would be long term reliability studies. and ford doesn't fare well in them. but, If the build quality is improving, then that could very well change
and what new and improved engine are you talking about, and why would you cross shop a versa (subcompact) and a fusion (midsize sedan) for? the fusion competes with the altima, malibu, camry ect. Don't tell me ford is selling their focus for more than the fusion
That's easy. The government considers the Versa a midsize based solely on interior volume. The Versa is one good size cabin.
Yep. J.D. Power is a joke. Basing a buying decision on J.D. is a good way to shot oneself in the foot. Their criteria isn't meant to inform the end user.
David
Even if they fixed the problems, the Focus messages board is still full of issuses some very recent! Basicaly I could not buy a Focus and sleep well at night with the descion. And I really don't care about the warrenty, if I have got to waste time in a dealer getting something fixed arguing with said dealer about what it covers. So the Focus was out of the running for me personally.
I was worried about the Vera since it is a new car to the U.S. market but it looks like the worry was missplaced.
There were some build quility issuses on the versa like air bag cover popped up which were correted early.
There were some very minor things like the TPMS being a bit too sensative and a brake cap that lacked a required warning but that is about it.
And none of thoose issuses affected me and my sedan that I bought in Febuary.
Given the fact that the car was released in July the few things that were bad were fixed pretty darned fast.
This is a great contrast to the Tempo my mom owned. The air conditioning system on the Tempo failed every summer(and a couple of time again before the end of summer).
Although the dealer would try to fix it. It never stayed fixed. I have only had the car since febuary and yet I have not needed to see a dealer to fix something....something the Tempo didn't achive it's first year. I hope that the Versa is as realiable as my Trecel was but so far so good.
Ford came in above average at 224 and Mercury came in 2nd with 151! Toyota was 5th with 179. Yes, thats 18% more problems in a 3 year old Toyota vs. a 3 year old Mercury.
I'm not trying to bash Nissan or the Versa in general. I am just trying to keep conversation about the strenghts and weakness of Versa as a car and not about how bad american cars are.
There are no recalls on 2005 to 2007 Focus.
As for whether the Power tests mean anything, I think that the difference between brands is significate.
Mark
Mark
It's what/how J.D. measures that's at issue. GIGO. Garbage in, garbage out. J.D.'s customers are the auto companies. They need to tailor their data to make it appealing to their customers. They do that extremely well.
David
Ford is deffinitly on the right track, but only time will tell. So far ford is doing very well in both inital and 3 year reliablitly. If, the cars also hold up well after 5-10 years, ford may once again be able to challenge the asian companies.
But, that particular reliablity study was conducted on 2002 year vehicles, across all vehicle classes, not a particular vehicle, or vehicle class. I would suspect the focus is well below FoMoCo's average as a company.
nissan has redesigned all its vehicles since then, and the versa was 5 years away from comming out.
That means if you had 100 cars, only 15 more would have a problem.
Or on a particular car, it you have .15 more problems!
What I am getting at is that just because a brand is farther down the list, doesn't mean that it is unreliable in abstract terms.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I'm not badmouthing ford, they've made enormous improvements in quality, and are finnaly begging to match (or even exceed) that of their asin competition. Just don't read too much into those relability ratings, they only tell 1/10th of the story.
on average each Nissan had 24.2 problems over the 3 years.
A problem is anything a customer dislikes enough to report. The mechanical failure, "Bad" fuel economy, cheap feel to the knobs, whatever.
It is important to car makers because it measures how well that car maker is meeting the expectations of its customers as well as how reliable the cars are.
Mark
Still there's a certain segment of people who love the Yaris 5-door design and wanted that particular car model. Not the other Toyota designs. It's as simple as that and remains a disappointment for them.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I do grant that CR's tables do not really show a weighting per se, either, but at least you generally know what problems they are reporting on (engine, transmission, electrical, brakes, etc.).
correct. so if nissan has 242 problems per 100 cars, that averages out to 2.4 problems per car. not 24.2
basically what its saying is, if nissan sells 100 vehicles, then they can expect 242 problems. not 2,400.
Incidently, even though the current Focus is on the way out, sales are up.
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070716/FREE/70716005/1024/L- ATESTNEWS
Mark
First off someone came on to the Versa Board and started bashing the Versa saying that the Focus is much better car. When in fact it is not.
Maybe the reason why the sales are up is the hefty rebated, LOW APR and the fact that Ford Motor Credit is taking on some risky customers to move the Focus out of inventory. I was in Detriot last week and saw lots of 08 Focus sitting in a lot waiting to be shipped. I'm sure Ford wants to move as many of the 07 Focus's before they start shipping the all new 08's...
Just checked recalls at /www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov.
2005 Ford Focus has three recalls, but only one really counts as two of them are actually for aftermarket problems.
The Ford problem is perception that they said they had fixed their quality problems before. But those earlier fixes weren't true. Remember "quality is job 1"? Lots of people just don't believe them anymore.
Ford really is making better cars and trucks than they did. But the competitors are improving too.
BL
But thanks for tickling my warped brain and giving me an idea for a future blog enrty! :P
Alternate Route
I've had Fords for the past 22 years (an '85 EXP, '92 Explorer, and the Focus... none of which gave me any trouble) so going with a Nissan is quite a change for me. Time will tell if my new little Versa turns out to be as good of a car as my Focus was.
I've had it a just over a week now and so far, I love it. :-)
Pics here, including one of both cars...
http://www.pbase.com/fotogrfr/new_car
Yea - I'm short so the adjustable driver's seat is a GREAT feature. Also had it in my Focus and knew I wanted it in my new car.
Nay - Having the driver's seat cranked all the way up, the armrest is now totally useless. My right arm kind of just dangles there and has a lot of trouble being comfortable. Why don't they consider this and make the armrest adjustable too??? It was this way in my Focus also but not anywhere near as bad.
Yea - Seats are very comfortable and I like the cloth material.
Nay - NO lumbar support whatsoever. (Same was true for my Focus). Will require small pillow or similar for long trips.
Yea - Rear seats fold down for added cargo area.
Nay - They don't fold FLAT. WHY?????
(No Yea for this one)
Nay - I think water/dew must pool on the rear bumper top because I'm seeing tiny (and I do mean tiny) specks that may be rust trying to form. Being only surface rust at this early stage, I can take care of it with some rubbing compound but I'd also like to seal it real well. Any suggestions? They should have installed a rubber piece there like other hatchbacks I've seen.
That's it for now. As more time passes with ownership, I may be back.
If you have any comments on the above or have your own yea's and nay's, please post!
Yeas:
Great build quality. The paint is flawless - smooth as silk, no orange-peel. Panel gaps tight and even. Amazing.
Incredible amount of space inside, especially in back. Feels like I'm driving a real car, unlike the mini-car feel I get in a Yaris or Fit.
High quality fit and finish and very good materials used inside. Woven-cloth headliner an unexpected touch and much nicer than the usual mouse-fur. Very comfortable seats have plenty of support - no backaches after sitting in the car all day.
Quiet and smooth engine, so quiet I often can't hear it idling. I tried to re-start the running engine at least once because I thought it had stalled! I guess I'd better watch that tach!
The Versa is so quiet at highway speeds I can actually carry on a conversation without raising my voice. As a driver of small cars for years, this was a real surprise. :surprise:
Great fuel economy. I averaged 40 MPG (CDN) on my highway trip. It should be good in the city, too. If I remember, I'll keep you posted.
Loads of equipment for the price. Heated mirrors in an econobox?? :surprise:
Nay's:
The Versa has a few ergonomic glitches, like the power mirror switches located on the dash instead of the door panel where they belong and no interior hatch release. The domelight/dimmer switch should be integrated with the headlight control - the existing setup is awkward and unintuitive until you've used it a few times.
No coolant temperature gauge.
Inadequate cupholders. For some reason, the domestics do this much better.
The hatch opening is too narrow at the bottom. The price paid for styling, I guess.
The rear seat doesn't fold flush with the cargo floor. How much could it have cost Nissan to engineer this feature into the Versa?
The standard stereo is kind of lame, but that might be because I was spoiled by the Infinity stereo in my last car. An easy after-market fix.
The car could use a bit more horsepower, even 10 or 15 might make a difference. Passing on the highway takes a bit of planning and the car bogs down when taking steep grades.
That's about it.
Yea's:
A full load of airbags. These are too often optional or available only on more expensive models.
Nay's:
Nissan should replace the 4-speed A/T with a 5-speed A/T - this is becoming an industry standard.
Interior lighting is WAY too dim.
Door panels are intrusive. I don't know if this is because of the safety structure inside the doors, but this puts the seat levers inboard where they are more difficult to use.
ABS should be standard on ALL cars by now.
And my final rant - why doesn't Nissan include a standard center armrest? Are they THAT expensive??
Also, on the sedan, if you lock the doors with the key fob and then open the trunk with the key, does the alarm go off?
If you are inside the sedan and lock the doors with the key fob, can you pop the trunk from the release button?
Any help you can give would be appreciated.
1. It is factory installed. It pre-arms itself 30 seconds after you turn off the car and after 30 more seconds of the doors not being opened it turns on.
2. The alarm is basicaly geared to go off if for some reason the car door is opened with out a key(or request swicth if using the ikey). Any key use will turn the alarm off.
In addition the car has a imoblizer which means that the only keys that can turn the car on are the ones registired to the car. This means that replacing your key is expensive but it also means that the car is more difficult to steal by hot wiring or just coping the key at a hardware store. If you copy the key you can get in but you can't start the car.
Another intresting thing is the ikey. In theory someone could steal the car if you were next the car and have the ikey but they would be unable to start it again without the key once they turned it off.
Another nice feature of the ikey is it makes it almost impossible to lock your keys in the car. There are some locations in the the cabin wither the system can not sense the key(like the glove box, on top of the dashboard and ont op of the shelf area in the rear) but if the ikey battery is working and the key is left in the car the doors will unlock if you try to lock them from the outside and the car will make a beeping sound.
3. You can not pop the trunk on the sedan at all!(Well barring being traped inside and using the emergancy unlacth). This is the only car I have ever driven where you can not open the trunk from either the key fob or inside the car. You can unlock the trunk from the key fob and infact you unlock the trunk by every time you open the driver side door but the trunk will not pop untill you press the trunk lid release.
Despite thoose flaws the ikey is a great thing. It is great being able to open the door and drive off without having to get the key out your pocket.
The New Rouge has a the CVT but also have "shift Paddles" the CVT has 6 different shift points when you use the paddles. That sounds like something you should look into. They are a great SUV and sounds like something you are looking for.
Tony
23K miles on my Versa and loving it.
I like CVT. I was really fascinated when I drove a car with CVT for the first time (JDM Honda Fit rental), since the tachometer needle stayed in the exact same spot while the car picked up speed. It took me about an hour to get used to it, and after that, I started wondering why more cars weren't using CVT.
Tony
It is my understanding that CVTs have to be used in lower HP cars. Something about the belt/chains ability to withstand friction wear.
Advances in CVT's may change this but as far as I know it is still restricted by HP.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Tony
CVT's advantages become less obvious in cars that otherwise have a high number of gears in their AT's (such as 7- and 8-AT used in the Mercedes and LS430), and in cars that have a lot of torque across the wide RPM band. The latter is true because a car like that can drive well without shifting gears much. But in smaller cars that have to use their engines more efficiently to get moving, CVT is hard to beat.
I doubt most american even know/care. anybody who would consider themselves a "car person" would of course notice and be interested in the difference. so far though, the inclusion of the cvt in most nissan vehicles hasn't hurt sales. In fact, nissan car sales (just cars, not trucks and suv's) are up pretty good this year. If anything, the cvt is a plus for them.
The cargo area inside is huge, but the access to it from the rear is severely restricted by the poor design of the hatchback which doesn't let you slide objects directly onto the load floor the way a true wagon would. And the rear seat, when folded becomes a rather large immovable obstacle and doesn't play well with large objects that you would want to load into the cargo area.
If I got the Versa I would be having to choose between removing the rear seat entirely and maneuvering/lifting cargo up through the awkward hatch opening. Or else building up a false load floor which is higher and positioned at the point at which the hatch opening is wider - which would facilitate sliding of large, wide cargo items directly in and out through the rear opening. But the latter would result in cargo sitting a lot higher in the cargo area and partially obstructing the view out of the rear window.
Not being happy with the idea of either of those two work-arounds, I am not looking very favorably on the Versa at the moment. A Versa wagon, if it were to exist, would be a much better design.
Re: bodyside moldings... are there no acceptable aftermarket solutions available?
Speaking of body side moldings, I have never been much of an after market mod guy, but was prompted by a poster on another board to take a look. It seems there are paint-matched (so they say) body side moldings for a lot of models available at around $100 for 4 piece sets.
Mark