Nissan Versa

jchan2 · October 2005

there'll be typos.

The Motor Trend Article was probably referring to the Sonata GLS.

I've seen many places goof.
One time CR I think listed the Dodge Grand Caravan SXT as the Dodge Grand Caravan STX.

allfiredup · October 2005

backy-

I caught that "GLE" error yesterday when I was reading the article. You'd think these guys would have better proofreaders, huh?

giantkiller · October 2005

I've read a lot of Versa press release inclduding the Automobile magazine and all of them mentioned the Versa will have an estimated 38mpg with CVT. We wont know the actual/official figures until the cars release. Its a little bit early to say that the Honda Jazz will be the only hope for high mpg car. If it did have high mpg it will do so on account of lower HP rating. Law of physics. Lets say for example they bring the Fit with the 1.2 and 1.4 iDSI engine, it will have 77HP,51 combined mpg and 83HP-48 combined mpg respectively. the Versa will have 120HP, 38 combined mpg. Take your pick. People will have different needs and wants for their car.

bamacar · October 2005

With a 1.8, I just don't see the car getting more than 32 in the city, and that would make it get 44 on the highway to reach a 38 combined. 44 highway - I don't see with this car. The 38 highway max with about 29-32 in the city would seem closer. Other markets are getting a new 1.5 with the Versa. Mixed will probably be 33.5 to 35 on the 1.8. If we actually got the 1.5, the 38 might be possible with the CVT or 6 speed.

It appears that the Fit will probably get the 1.3 and 1.5 which would get it about 90-95 and 103-110 hp. The mileage should be significantly better than the Versa with the 1.8, but its mpg numbers may turn out dissappointing as well.

allfiredup · October 2005

I've read in several articles that the Fit is expected to have at least a base engine of 1.6L for the U.S. The existing powertrains in the Fit/Jazz simply aren't powerful enough for the U.S. I guess we'll know the truth in a few months.

backy · October 2005

The Civic is EPA rated 30 city, 40 highway with a five-speed automatic, and it has 140 hp. It's probably also a heavier car than the Versa. Why is it so hard to believe that Nissan could get just a little better fuel economy out of the same-sized engine, with 20 fewer hp (i.e., tuned for economy vs. power), and with a CVT instead of a conventional automatic?

jchan2 · October 2005

isn't the Civic's engine a 2.0L for 2006?

allfiredup · October 2005

The standard Civic models have a 1.8L.

giantkiller · October 2005

To achieve 90-95 with 1.3L and 103-110HP for 1.5L, that is gonna be VTEC engine and not an i-DSI. That 1.7L non-VTEC in the previous gen Civic have 107HP before the new SAE testing protocol. Anyway, I dont think that the i-DSI is a possibility for US bound Honda Fit. That car is gonna be really slow and noisy when you push it.
Looking at the present Sentra, it would seem that the combined 38 mpg is not possible for the Versa. But were talking of a different/new powertrain here. That Sentra was redesigned last in 2000 which was before the previous gen Civic and the present gen Corolla. A lot has happened since then, in the world and in the Nissan R&D lab.

bamacar · October 2005

Honda and Toyota have been on the cutting edge of fuel economy with more aerodynamic shapes than the Versa, and they can only acheive 30-32 city mileage. Nissan has not shown any MPG prowess since the 80's. I don't see the Nissan 1.8 getting better city mileage than the Toyota Yaris when it has just a 1.5 and only 106hp. I hope the Versa gets 38 combined. That would definitely interest me, but I will be surprised if it happens.

Also the Versa is sized larger than either the Yaris or the Fit. The Versa Hatchback is 165 inches long and weighs about 2563 with the 1.5 engine. With the 1.8 in the US, weight may reach 2650. That would be right on par with the 2006 Civic. It appears to be more on par with the outgoing Sentra class and less of a Yaris/Fit competitor (curb weights around 2300-2375 lbs).

giantkiller · October 2005

Aerodynamic is not substantial factor to determine wether the car will have high mpg or not. The technology you put into your engine , the type of transmission plus the curb weight of the vehicle will be the main factor here. By the way the Versa 's Cd (0.29) is on par with any Cd's Toyota and Honda have on their car and that includes the new Civic/Yaris.
Accoring to the press release, if you have read it, The Versa will have the new 1.8L HR engine . The 1.5L HR engine was first used in the Tiida/Japan. ts a fairly new engine and the first application of it was in Tiida. One of its characteristics is good fuel economy.

bamacar · October 2005

Aerodynamics is a major factor on highway mileage, not so much in the city. Versa being as heavy as a Civic, Corolla, or present Sentra may be the overiding factor. Will the new 1.8 allow it to get better than the present mixed 31.5 on the Sentra? Certainly yes, but all the way up to 38 combined not likely. If the gearing was adjusted to increase mileage, the Versa will be significantly slower than the Corolla or Civic. Nissan may want to increase the mpg, but I doubt at the expense of being known as the snail on the block.

Also by Japanese fuel economy standards the Yaris 1.5 gets 18.6 km/l.
The Versa (Tiida) 1.5 gets 18.2 km/l. The Versa 1.8 gets 16.4 km/l.

The rough translation based on Yaris = expected 36.5mpg mixed EPA (40/33) is:

Versa 1.5 mixed =35.7 mpg
Versa 1.8 mixed= 32.2 mpg

We will see how close these estimates come to the actual EPA ratings.

jchan2 · October 2005

I would think that drivers interested in the Versa who are concerned with economy wouldn't be concerned too much about acceleration.

mindaugus · October 2005

I was curious if the 38mpg quoted was in imperial or US units. If the original post of 38mpg was from England then it could be confused. I found that using a conversion tool on the web http://hemsidor.torget.se/users/b/bohjohan/convert/conv2_e.htm#fuel
that the 16.4km/l the Versa gets in Japan translates to exactly 38.575192mpg. I think thats the mystery solved, and the important thing is that it will get good gas mileage. When things go to the EPA the numbers will change, but if you want to compare just look at the Japanese numbers. At 18.6km/L as you said bama the Yaris will overtake the Versa in MPG with 16.4km/L. Lets hope they realize the 1.5L makes much more since in this market. Maybe the engine is all new and the Japanese numbers are not right. Is this an all-new engine and what are their tricks for good mpg?

allfiredup · October 2005

There are some of us (a minority, I'm sure) who like to be practical and economical but still have something that's fun to drive. The Honda Civic has always appealed to people like me because it is a blast to drive and extremely fuel efficient.

Just my opinion. Good handling and say 0-60 in the low 9 second range would be great along with 35-40 mpg.

vythai28 · October 2005

120 is good for the sedan, but for the hatchback it should be like 180 hp. the scion TC will be more popular with the more hp. All this time i though this hatchback was gonna b fast! :mad:

backy · October 2005

There ya go, trying to mess up a perfectly good economy car with more power than anyone needs. :mad: If you want a 5-door with power similar to a tC, go look at the Mazda3s. For some of us, fuel economy is more important than racing.

jchan2 · October 2005

That's true, especially with rising gas prices, a lot of us want high MPG numbers.

And remember the Versa will go for around $16K while the tC will be around $20K.

allfiredup · October 2005

Maybe they'll just cram the 5.6L V8 from the Titan in the Versa. That would be hella cool!

(please note the hint of sarcasm in my comment)

jchan2 · November 2005

of the MPG Numbers!!!!!!!!!!!!

Acceleration would be REALLY fast in the Versa though, if they did cram a 5.6L in there.

gogogodzilla · November 2005

I was thinking maybe a W-12 with about 550 hp? That oughta keep the price down to about $16,500?

:P

giantkiller · November 2005

Yup, sure do. But youre gonna be sitting there with the steel wheel, the chassis and the engine in front of you. Bring your goggles and helmet.

nwng · November 2005

I think the 3.5 from the z looks better. it's a hatchback, so you can line up bottles of nox in the back. I doubt the guy in the 911 turbo can read my license plate. :shades:

peteinmpls · November 2005

Greetings all,

First post in this thread and first post in a long time. Good to be back in the market for a new car in the coming months.

Now that you can design your own Versa on Nissan's site, does it strike anyone else as odd that Nissan apparently featured the most base version of this car in all the debut photos? I mean, right down to the basic wheel covers and the least expensive interior treatment. Not that there's anything wrong with having/getting a value version of a vehicle, it's just that they usually don't give the most positive first impression of a model. I'm surprised how just putting alloys on this car upgrades the appearance. Looks like you can upgrade to a nicer looking cloth and add some sport appearance pieces to the exterior.

I'm really looking forward to checking this one out, along with the next generation Elantra hatch/wagon, Dodge Caliber/Jeep Compass, Mazda 3 and the VW Golf (if it ever gets here and if they have a decently optioned version of the car for $20K or less).

alpha01 · November 2005

With a decently equipped Jetta hitting 24.5K on MSRP, a midline Passat at nearly 29K (both with autos), I wouldnt count on a sub20K price on the next Golf if you want anything signficant. I would speculate $22-3K for a stick shift with decent size tires, alloys, and moonroof.

~alpha

allfiredup · November 2005

I wonder if VW will jump into the fray with the Polo? It's interesting that the Golf and Jetta are both very close to the $20k mark in base form. VW sells two cars in various markets that are smaller, cheaper and more economical than the Golf- the tiny Lupo and the slightly larger Polo.

Will VW continue their push to be considered a "premium" car and not offer a true entry-level model or jump on the chance to sell some cars and offer the Polo?

I for one am excited (yes, I'm a nerd) by all these new offerings. Versa, Fit, Yaris...what's next?

giantkiller · November 2005

I've seen the Polo, as well as the Ford Fiesta and they are nice. I expect GM to introduce cars based on its European brand Opel instead of Daewoo like the Corsa, Astra and Meriva. I really love the styling. If only GM werent so st@$#$.

peteinmpls · November 2005

I'm certain you're right Alpha...it seems like VW is more or less eliminating the option combinations that had previously allowed the ability to get just about everything you'd want (better stereo, heated seats, sunroof) while still maintaining some concept of value. Now they're forcing the "Value Edition" into something of a bare-bones role...although to VW's credit, they do make all the key saftey equipment standard. But if you want a sunroof on a VW, you're into the low to mid $20K model range no doubt. Admittedly, that's a superficial thing to gripe about...the much bigger issue for me is the likely absence of a TDI at least for the '07 model year. The TDIs for the outgoing '06 model were allocated weeks ago already. I'm very unimpressed with their new gas engine...from everything I read it's not very efficient in the real-world. The should have brought their naturally aspirated FSI over as the base but apparently cost was a factor there.

I always thought the next Golf would be at the top of my short list and that's why I'm so interested in the Versa. On paper it appears to be everything I was hoping for in the Golf, 5-door hatch, excellent mileage, excellent value. Of all the cars on my list, it's the closest to having the Golf look of a chunky, Euro-looking hatchback. Apparently it will offer pretty TDI-like consumption numbers as well.

backy · November 2005

I had a thought today about what vehicles the Versa is targeting. How about this: what other 5-door hatchbacks are out there that offer a CVT transmission, economical but relatively low-powered 4-cylinder engine, compact exterior but room for five adults, around 40 mpg fuel economy, kind of odd styling, and cool optional gadgets like Bluetooth and "smart entry"? Does that remind anyone of any car in particular?

jchan2 · November 2005

If you take away the bluetooth and smart entry I'm thinking about a car called the Toyota Yaris and its crosstown rival the Honda Fit.

allfiredup · November 2005

I've seen the Polo, as well as the Ford Fiesta and they are nice.

There was a rumor floating around a few months ago that Ford is toying with the idea of bringing the Fiesta to the U.S. If it happens, it will probably be after the new Focus (already on sale elsewhere) is introduced.

backy · November 2005

I was thinking of the Prius. There is no evidence yet that the Yaris and Fit will offer a CVT in the U.S., or that either car can hold five adults. And there's the Bluetooth and smart entry.

jchan2 · November 2005

The Versa isn't a Hybrid though, so I didn't think of the Prius.

giantkiller · November 2005

Its not the Prius. I called it upping the ante.

giantkiller · November 2005

Renault Clio was named COTY in Europe for 2005. There must be something in this car that we havent discovered yet.

jrct9454 · November 2005

...since the first one for our market isn't for sale yet!

I'm always amazed at the conclusions that people are willing to draw, especially negative ones, before a car is even available for a walkaround in our market, much less for a test drive. Be patient, you all may be pleasantly surprised...

[Been following the same discussion in the Edmunds' thread for the new Honda Fit - jeez, you'd think the world had come to an end with the mostly negative, virtually all speculative, postings there - personally, I'll wait for the car before deciding, one way or the other.]

micweb · November 2005

The one I like (in the Fit forum) is that 32 mpg city isn't enough...

backy · November 2005

For a really small car like the Fit, 32 mpg is disappointing. I wonder what the city mpg of the Versa will be? All I've seen officially from Nissan is "38 mpg combined" with the CVT--not bad at all for a 120 hp car that can hold five adults. But what is the city/highway mix? Most of my driving is in town.

carzzz · November 2005

The Versa have good mpg... IMO, it is just a smaller "Toyota Matrix" from Nissan. With similar comparable smaller dims, except it can fit 5 adults. Overall at the sub-compact price, it's sure a good buy!

micweb · November 2005

Back said, in part:

For a really small car like the Fit, 32 mpg is disappointing.

That's a 32 mpg city rating.

I had a '93 Honda Civic CX with the low revving "high" torque engine, rated at 40/46 mpg, and it never got more than 30 mpg. The same as my current, heavier cars with bigger, stronger engines and a lot better acceleration.

There is a certain amount of "gaming" that goes on in getting high gas mileage on EPA tests, and it used to be worse.

The truth is, sometimes very small cars, like the Fit, don't get mileage much better (or better at all) than cars like the Civic, Cobalt, Versa. I guess they could, with a miserly 1.2 liter engine, but then we'd be looking at 0-60 times in the 13-15 second range, which I have seen on European tests. Americans won't buy those cars. Well, except for the three or four very outspoken posters on the Fit forum.

My personal rule of thumb is this:

I will never exceed the higway mileage rating, even if I cruise to LA at 55 mph in the slow lane, driving even the semi trailer drivers nuts (tried it one time). But I can probably come within 3-5 miles short of the highway mileage rating, if I keep it between 50-80 mph.

The city rating is an important indicator of how efficient the car is in real world, surface street driving. It's still inflated, but any car with a city rating over 30 is very, very impressive.

bamacar · November 2005

Some vehicles get the EPA rating easily though. The 2003 Honda Accord manual (34/26) that I had never had a single tank below 26 in over 39000 miles. I normally got around 30 and would get 32-35 on the highway. I am an average to agressive driver. Other cars I have had did worse than the EPA especially the ones with the autos.

A FIT with 37/32 is not acceptable when the Civic auto gets 40/30. Even if it gets 41/32 with a manual that would mediocre given that a heavier and more powerful Corolla gets that. Even the disappointing Yaris will probably get 39/33 or 40/33. If the FIT can only manage 37/32, just give us the Civic Hatch from Europe with the same Civic mileage, better power, and larger size.

I will very pleased if the Versa gets 38 combined. Given its significantly larger size than the FIT or Yaris and the Japanese mileage comparisons, I think it will be 38 highway not combined as it gets worse mpg than the FIT and Yaris in Japan at least with the 1.8.

backy · November 2005

Seeing as how I can easily get upper 20s in mpg in the city with a 138 hp, 2.0L, 2800 pound compact with a 4-speed automatic, and frequently get over 30, I really would like to get better than 32 in the city on a car like the Fit that is much smaller, lighter, has a smaller engine (no bigger than 1.5L), probably would have a stick (unless Honda pulls another Civic thing and the automatic Fit gets better mpg than the stick). Also I don't think too many people would argue that Honda has superior engine technology to Hyundai/Kia, so that should be good for better fuel economy than, say, the 32 mpg city that cars like the Kia Rio and new Hyundai Accent are rated at. I don't think I am being unreasonable or unrealistic here.

But I also think there may be nothing to the 32/37 rumor. I would be incredibly surprised if that is the EPA fuel economy rating on the U.S. Fit. But if it is, I'll just need to weigh that when it comes time to decide which car I buy next year. The Versa will look awfully good vs. the Fit if it's 32/37 for the Fit and 38 combined for the Versa.

iluvmysephia1 · November 2005

that doesn't believe that Honda has better engine technology than Hyundai/Kia. The new '06 Kia Rio is rated at 35(combined)mpg with the automatic and 32(combined city/highway)with the stick. The new Hyundai/Kia motors are CVVT(Continuously Variable Valve Timing)engines that produce less harmful emissions and extract better gas mileage at the same time.

The 32 mpg I would get with my new '06 Kia Rio sedan or '06 Kia Rio5 would be more than enough miles per gallon for this Seahawk/Sonic fan. The South Koreans have indeed caught the Japanese carmakers and the resulting battle is just what they wanted all along. I don't know about you, but the more I look at the Japanese makes and study their rigs the more I value the Hyundai/Kia brand.

Rock to some tasty Tragically Hip and enjoy your weekends, everyone!

backy · November 2005

When Hyundai or Kia produce a small I4 naturally-aspirated engine that produces around 200 hp, or a 160+ hp I4 that is PZEV rated, let me know, and I'll agree with you that Hyundai and Kia have equivalent engine technology to Honda. Until then, let's talk here about the Versa.

bamacar · November 2005

For clarification the 2006 Rio gets 33.5 combined with either transmission. 38/29 Auto and 35/32 manual. They are getting better, but the Rio with the manual should get 40 instead of 35 on the highway (that would be in line with Honda and Toyota).

iluvmysephia1 · November 2005

we also have to look at longetivity of engine life. Durability. My '01 Kia Sportage 4x4 is humming nicely along at 105,900 miles and it is literally showing no signs of slowing down at all. I really don't know about longetivity of Honda 4-cyl.motors, but nothing presented to me here sounds better than the Kia 4-cyl.motor (or the Hyundai 4 cyl., of course). A few better mpg's doesn't equal better overall quality of motor.

Because when I combine the Kia motor with the superior Kia bodystyle and everything else Kia offers, including the superior Long-Haul Warranty, one with a reasoning mind can indeed see why I love the Kia brand so much. The overall better brand is Kia. Oui?

jchan2 · November 2005

Well if this offers somewhat of an opinion...
My Honda Civic, with 98,000 miles, is still running like the day I bought it. (of course, the scratch in the bumper and the small dings in the driver side rear door, along with the red slushie stain on the passenger side carpet do not make it look brand new

)
It's a good car that served its purpose during the brief period of severely high fuel prices.
I think it'll be able to serve me another ten years

iluvmysephia1 · November 2005

your Honda Civic sounds great.

Actually, imports in general are great choices. Honda and Toyota are generally regarded as the leaders but Nissan has gained a lot of converts of late as well.

I guess what I'm saying about my Kia's is that their motors are rock-solid. Very reliable. The fact that the Honda's get better gas mileage may have to do with the lesser weight of the Japanese brands. Kia's are heavy machines. Enjoy your choices in imports, whichever you chose.

I am not really interested in this new Nissan Versa because it doesn't distinguish itself in the looks department. It looks too utilitarian to me.

jchan2 · November 2005

I've noticed that too. Kias seem to be heavy. (especially the Sedona)

The Versa looks ok to me- it serves its purpose- reliable, affordable, and efficient transportation.

raychuang00 · December 2005

There was a rumor floating around a few months ago that Ford is toying with the idea of bringing the Fiesta to the U.S.

Actually, what I've heard is that Ford has green-lighted the sale of the next-generation Fiesta in the USA. It will be unveiled at NAIAS in January 2007 and be sold as a 2008 model. The vehicle is a joint venture with Mazda and as such, Mazda will also sell its own version of the car in the USA under the Mazda2 name.

Nissan Versa

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