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BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS

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Comments

  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    six-cylinder automatic sedans, Ward's Segmentation". Research the facts, dewey, before you make bold statements of misinformation.

    Dewey, quit twisting the facts; your rhetoric is really, really tiring    .

    Huhhh??? :confuse:

    Yes, Lexus does use AMCI-Certified acceleration testing number to boast the 5.3 figure that few testers can achieve! Where did I state that this 5.3 figure is in-house???

    What facts did I distort when I was referring to the R&T Speed Comparison dated Nov/Dec?

    The IS350 achieved 0-60 in 6.0 seconds The G35 beat the IS350 and the BMW330 was beaten by the IS350 by a mere 0.2 seconds.

    Please explain to me where I used rhetoric or twisted the facts?
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    was referring to the facts of the R&T Speed Comparison dated Nov/Dec! And I repeat those are facts and not twisted facts

    You have confirmed to me that you do not understand the difference between anecdotal and statistical facts! Therefore this discussion is a waste of time!

    Facts is that you mention an unofficial time done by a magazine with ad revenue.

    Are you implying that BMW bribes magazines with ad revenue in a far more convincing manner than what Toyota spends on ad revenue?

    I wonder if you have ever done a scientific experiment in your life!

    Are you referring to the person who gets his reliability records from one C & D road test?
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    "Are you implying that BMW bribes magazines with ad revenue in a far more convincing manner than what Toyota spends on ad revenue?"

    Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... horsey... who here mentioned BMW? Certainly not I... So, quit putting words in my mouth!

    I had said earlier:

    "Where the twisting comes into play is that you pretend like R&T did this one comparo where it unofficially received a worse time than the G35 and all-of-a-sudden the G35 is faster than the IS 350 all the time?

    If not, then why the hell mention it in the first place!?

    Huh?????"

    So? Why mention R&T? Why? Tell me. If I don't know the difference between anecdotal and statistical, which I am sure you imply stricly as an insult, at least answer me why you keep on referring to the magazine for your arguments. It is not my lack of knowledge of the English language that inhibits my understanding of what you are saying but your lack of humility in admitting that you are actually wrong!

    Right about now, I have better things to do.

    It was fun.

    Bye.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    So? Why mention R&T? Why? Tell me

    Why not? :confuse:

    least answer me why you keep on referring to the magazine for your arguments.

    I repeat why should I not use comparison road test results of two cars that are the topic of this forum? Reading comparable performance/handling specs from various sources can be quite informative, dont you think?

    It would be senseless to use the "Speed R& T comparison test" or the "C&D" as a basis for reliability judgements! And that is exactly what you are doing! No insult intended!

    Have a nice day!
  • suave_tequilasuave_tequila Member Posts: 116
    Well I dont believe in the demograph ( or whatever) since I'm younger than 20 a bit

    younger and I was looking at the 330i and it was very nice since my sis went

    to buy the 745 (she didnt want the 750!) and also I like the Lexus IS350 but I

    went today to check it out but I saw the GS and I liked it a bit more!!! So I hope to

    buy a new car very soon!!! OOh btw dont feel like that!!! Live life to the fullest!!!!

    I might still like that act like that 13 yrs from now!!!
  • suave_tequilasuave_tequila Member Posts: 116
    GO MIKE!!!!!!! Im on ur side cuz i kind of know what ur saying plus ur cool lol!!!!

    OOh i didnt even bother reading your guys posts since I am soo out of it right lol

    But I hope it ends well !!! Good Luck! :P
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Well I dont believe in the demograph ( or whatever) since I'm younger than 20 a bit
    younger and

    Yes demograhics do matter! I think I will ask my children for some guidance on my next post!
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    " IS 350 got a 0-60 mph time of 5.3 seconds"

    I can't argue with a printed number, but its my feeling that information from comparos: where all of the cars are tested the same time and place are more valid.

    Testing the same car in Connecticut in February and the same car in Pheonix in July will yield different results.

    So the 5.3 (and I guess a lot of C/Ds numbers) while unbelievable is simply a derived number.
  • dl7265dl7265 Member Posts: 1,381
    Ok, Canadians play nice now :)

    DL
  • potemkinpotemkin Member Posts: 195
    Just curious about something...

    Who's responsible for "official" 0-60 times? Does it fall under the purview of the NHTSA or the IIHS, or is there some other governing body that's responsible for testing 0-60 times. If the "gubment's" been negligent and hasn't seen fit to keep track of such things, perhaps they should create a NMCSYCB (National My Car Smokes Your Car Board) to settle these disputes.

    Also, shouldn't they (whoever "they" are) have switched over to the metric system by now? Sounds to me that 0-100 K/H (0-62 MPH) would be more appropriate considering we're talking mainly about European & Japanese brands.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    This is getting way too personal.

    There is no reason why each of you cannot hold your own opinion without having to force it down each other's throat.

    We are talking about several very fine vehicles here. We all have our own reasons for making the final decisions we make, but those reasons are our OWN and we cannot expect to impose them on others. We can explain our reasoning, yes, but expecting others to adopt it lock, stock and barrel is really silly, if you think about it - you're not going to adopt someone else's reasoning in that manner, are you? So why would others adopt yours?

    We need to get this discussion back on track - we're comparing the 3-Series to the IS series, so let's keep our comments focused on the actual vehicles. The personal attacks are not acceptable here.

    Thanks.
  • sdiver68sdiver68 Member Posts: 125
    I'm sitting here looking directly at the official Lexus IS brouchure I got from the dealer yesterday, and they are claiming 0-60 in 5.6 for the 350. :confuse:
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    "Thanks."

    No problem. :)

    330i:

    Nice car. Haven't had a chance to drive the new 3 yet, but I am looking forward to it. Seeing as how dealerships here are closed on Sundays, tomorrow is a good day to do that. Exterior, meh. Interior, bleh. Well, it is not so much bleh, there are some good attributes in there, however when you combine it altogether, like the door panels and then dash, it mixes like water and oil (IMO).

    I have heard too many horror stories about BMW workmanship (anectodatal and statistical).

    The driving aspect of the 3 I am sure is nice, but the ammenities leave something to be desired with respect to my likes and dislikes.

    IS 350:

    Nice car. :D... really nice car! Exterior, wooh! Interior, oh yeaaa! Well, it is not so much oh yeaaa, who am I kidding, yes it is! The interior is very "fresh" and the use of contrasting tones is absolutely amazing, especially with the cashmere leather. I love the interior door panels and they are extremely comfortable. Wow, is that leather soft. The seat fits me like a fine Italian leather glove; perfect. Everything about the interior gives you the impression of smoothness and luxury; very tastefull.

    The driving aspect? Haven't driven it. As much as I would love to, the dealership has not gotten an IS 350 in yet. Regardless, I am not looking to buy until springtime.

    Lexus reliability? No question in my mind that it is the best in the biz.

    My verdict: IS 350 over the 3-series. I love great handling cars, however given the luxuries of the Lexus, its rocketship-like speed, "razor-sharp handling" (so says magazine reviewers ;)), gorgeous design, and its apeal to me, I would say that this is an easy decision. Throw in my confidence in Lexus workmanship due to anecdotal and statistical evidence of reliability and the decision is even easier.

    PS: I hope I don't offend anybody with my prefering Lexus over BMW (reliability and all).

    :blush:

    PPS: BMW Reliability Statistics from JD Powers

    image
    image
    image

    No information based on quality was available for the 1996 model 3 series sedan. The 1997 model scored 4 points out of 5 for each initial quality rating category.
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    That was a preliminary estimate.
  • suave_tequilasuave_tequila Member Posts: 116
    Yo Mike! I wanted to know is the GS similar to the IS? Since I drove by again but way too many people at the dealership!
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    In interior design it is similar. Some ways I prefer the GS over the IS interior. In other ways I prefer the IS interior over the GS. It's a toss-up. Both interiors are pretty slick though. Can't knock either.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I have heard too many horror stories about BMW workmanship (anectodatal and statistical)

    Thanks for posting the stats about BMW 3 series from JD Power!

    So where is the horror?
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    Pretty darn consistent.

    image
    image
    image

    No GS was made between, and including, the years 1997-1994 so I included the ES.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    It is undeniable that the Lexus statistics are impressive.Most Lexus models are just as impressive as Toyota Corollas in terms of reliability stats! And I am not being facetious by saying so since we all know that Corolla reliability is bulletproof!

    Again I graciously thank you for providing those BMW statistics because they prove exactly what I was saying in this forum these past 24 hours:

    BMW 3 series are not unreliable!

    :D
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    Where is BGDC? Maybe he can enlighten us on his experience with BMW firsthand.

    Dewey, let's just say that BMW levels of reliability are not up to my standards. If BMW works for you then that is no problem with me.

    My odds at having a trouble-free car are much better with Lexus.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I cant argue with that.

    To each his own!
  • tturedraidertturedraider Member Posts: 159
    Mike,

    You're mistaken. The GS was introduced in the 1993 model year and has been produced continuously since then.
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    Yea, you are right... I couldn't find any data on the GS from JD Powers though.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Where is BGDC?

    I finally deciphered the meaning of BGDC(it was not in the Oxford dictionary). ;)

    You mean Blueguy! If I had his BMW experiences I would be driving an Infiniti G35 today! The fact that he is still interested in buying another BMW proves that there is more to a car than reliability.

    But let us not forget that his unfortunate experiences are not widely shared among other 3 series owners as shown by those JD Power Statistics.
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    Look at the last post in the IS 250/350 forum by lauries :P

    Truthfully though, dewey, I do not see the reliability you see in the ratings of the 05' 3, or the 04' even. Look at the 01' 3 series. What about the 92'-95' 3 series? You and I are getting different messages from these ratings!
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Regarding the Lauries post:

    Most females like Lexuse more than BMWs! There was a survey done a few years ago( I dont know if it has been updated) which indicated the top ranked brand for females was a Lexus and the favorite model chosen is a RX330.

    I am sure that Lauries is the only female choosing a Lexus over a BMW!
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    All the 3 series models you mentioned have mechanical quality, features quality and Body & interior quality at average or above average scores.

    One exception is the 04 3 series model with below average mechanical quality! But this is just for one year!

    Coincidentally the stats you provided for Lexus excludes the GX470 which had below average reliabilty for model year 03 according to Consumers Report.

    Bottom line: Even the most reliable autos have one bad year, even a Lexus!
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    3 hyphenated words: Ninety-two, ninety-three, ninety-four!

    :D

    Edit: Strange! I went to J.D. Power Consumer Center and plugged in 05-03 GX models. All received better than most or among the best. 03 GX received 4/5 Mechanical Quality, 5/5 Feature and Accessory Quality, 5/5 Body and Interior Quality, and 5/5 Overall Quality. Hmmm... Maybe a long-term test would clarify this.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Yeah, I guess the owners surveyed by Consumers Report were more disgruntled than the ownwers surveyed by JD Power!

    Who knows maybe CR does their surveys Monday morning and JD Power does their surveys Friday afternoon? ;)
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    That is indeed a possibility. I am being serious too! :P

    Anyways, I will let everyone know how my test-drives went.
  • yaajeryaajer Member Posts: 5
    Just drive both. Go with the one you like most.

    I own a 330I and have driven my cousin's IS350. Both are nice cars, the IS is really fast, but seems less stable at high speeds and corners. Interior, the Lexus has a nice gauge, but the passenger front side leaves much to be desired. The E90 interior is very BMW'ish..if you have had a previous bmw, you will not mind it at all since it feels very much like home and still very luxurious. The 330I just has a nicer ride...seriously, just drive both and see which one you like more. Oh, and the 3-series has full maintenance for 4 years excluding tires.

    The IS is nice, but it's still not a BMW. Just drive both and see for yourself...
  • gstoisgstois Member Posts: 65
    The IS is nice, but it's still not a BMW.

    And that's exactly why I left BMW after two cars and just bought a 2nd Lexus. BMW's are nice, but they still aren't up to par with Lexus on many levels.

    I'll give you the trademark ride and feel of BMW, but that's about it. I actually prefer the more isolated feel of Lexus because it's less fatiguing.

    As for the posts on reliability, my two BMW's were horrible. If that wasn't enough, the customer service was a joke. In my 5 years of owning a Lexus I haven't had any problems whatsoever, so I haven't experienced customer service other than routine maintenance which has been excellent.

    Lastly, as bad as BMW is, Mercedes is worse!
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    As for the posts on reliability, my two BMW's were horrible

    My seven years of BMW reliability has been good!

    The stats posted in this forum indicates that BMWs are neither unreliable nor perfect.

    Since my BMW experience and the reliability stats are not bad, I will choose the car with the trademark ride and feel that I love!

    My mother and wife own a MB, my mother's is a 01 C240 and my wife's is a 83 MB300D. The reliability of the new MB is shoddy compared to the old MB! And the stats proves it!

    I am not the type who buys cars mainly for reliability but I am also the type of person who will avoid a car with proven unreliability.
  • yaajeryaajer Member Posts: 5
    Some people have had terrible reliability issues with BMW's and others have had nothing but smooth sailing. This is my second 3 series (first e46 330ci) and so far no issues with either one (knock on wood). However, my brother bought a used 3 series, and he absolutely had crazy issues, all well documented though (water pump, sub-frame, door seal, etc).

    To me, if you're getting a BMW, you're one of two people. The first type of person gets a BMW as a status symbol. They drive an M3 with automatic transmission, they don't treat it right, they take it to octopus car wash, and so on. The second type buy BMW's because they really enjoy driving the beast.

    I will concede that overall Lexus is more reliable than BMW. But it's still case by case in my book. In terms of sheer enjoyment though, BMW all the way. BTW, what other entry level luxury car has had the success of the 3-series over the last decade? Do you ever wonder why?

    To each his own.

    ps. This IS is a huge upgrade over the previous one. I owned the previous IS model (under powered and cheap interior). If lexus would just throw in a 6-speed transmission and a less intrusive control stability software, I would almost be all over the IS350.
  • dl7265dl7265 Member Posts: 1,381
    Ditto, my 1999 323i Sport was more reliable that any Honda I ever owned...But you know what ? I hope the IS outsells the 3er 5 to 1,so the next upgrade will be even more powerful and cheaper.... competition is a great thing....

    DL
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I could not agree more!

    Hopefully the future G35 will be even a more potent sport sedan!
    Hopefully a future Acura TL will have RWD or at least AWD
    Hopefully a future Lexus IS350 will have a manual tranny and nannies that can be turned off with a switch!

    Let the competition continue!
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    And add to the list, Hyundia will come out with a 4 door that trumps them all for half the price.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Yeah but Hyundai's lead wont be for long since Chery(Chinese auto firm) will have a potent sport sedan at one half of Hyundai's price :D
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Yeah but Hyundai's lead wont be for long since Chery(Chinese auto firm) will have a potent sport sedan at one half of Hyundai's price

    ...and you'll probably be able to pick one up at Wal-Mart.
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    Hahahahahahahahaahahahahahahaaha......... That was by far the funniest thing ever posted on this forum.

    :D

    Yea, potent sport sedan, right! :blush:
  • rahulguprahulgup Member Posts: 5
    I am debating between IS 250 RWD and BMW 325i.

    IS 250 cons: Rear leg room is very small, No Memory option available with RWD, tilt steering wheel is manual not electric.

    BMW 325i cons: Less smooth/quiet than IS 250, about $2500 more expensive with same features (but this includes memory seats/mirrors).

    Please help me in deciding what is a good choice or am I thinking too much about less significant features.
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    I test drove both, however am looking at the IS 350. This depends really all on what you are more comfortable with.

    The IS 250 styling apeals more so to myself. I find that the interior of the 325i lacks substance. The IS interior IMO is gorgeous.

    Both cars handle really well although I was disapointed in the body roll of the 325i. For the same money, you can get a G35x. Think about that. Not at the same standards of interior finishing as a Lexus, but a fun car and pretty luxurious I might say.

    The memory feature is useless if no more than 2 people are going to be driving the car... certainly not worth $2500. What do you think?

    All in all, I am more suited to the IS 250 simply because its style is unmatched. However, in my case I love sport as well, throw in gobs of power and I'm happy. What I can recommend is test-drive these cars again back-to-back two times if it is necessary and then from there decide based on your gut feeling and wallet too. I couldn't justify paying $37,000 CND for a 325i AT with premium package when I could get a G35x for the same amount. On the other hand, I'm lusting over the IS 350 so I know what I am going to do.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Thanks for the objective opinion!

    You shock me Mike, you really do!

    After reading your prior posts I always thought you were a biased BMW fan! And now you choose a IS250, shocking!!!
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Based on every published road comparison test, BMW 3 series came ahead of the IS!

    So based on other peoples' opinions I think the answer to your question is quite obvious!

    BUT what car did you enjoy driving best? That should be the basis for your choice and not other peoples' opinions.
  • aphallaphall Member Posts: 21
    So, I just came back from the "Taste of Lexus" driving event, and I must say, I am torn.

    Being a current owner of a '93 Honda civic, this will be my first purchase of a luxury sports sedan. I drove the IS350 first, and wow does that thing jump off the starting line. The thing continues to pull and pull! Honestly, my first impression was that it felt scary and unstable. Also, I felt like it was a cramped cabin, but after a while I got used to it.

    I then tried the BMW 330 and the difference was like night and day. It is definitely not as fast off the line, but it handled corners beautifully. I also liked the spaciousness of the BMW and the ergonomics over the Lexus.

    So, in the end I guess it comes down to reliability. My Civic has unbelievable reliability, and I don't know if I could go for a car with a worse track record. People say that Lexus is the way to go then.

    I think I should start a pro/con list... Hahaha...:confuse:
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    If reliability is the most important thing for you then you already know the car you want!

    The IS sounds like a perfect car for you! No need for a pro/con list, just buy the IS and enjoy it!
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Doesn’t the IS 350 have a bran new 3.5L engine?

    Isn’t this Toyota’s first direct injection? Not sure…asking.

    The engine really does sound amazing with power rivaling their own V8’s and an EPA the same as a 3.0L Camry.

    I personally wouldn’t feel anymore confident with the reliability of the Lexus over the BMW. My reasoning would be, they’re both pretty high tech complicated engines that shouldn’t be driven outside of a warranty.
  • dl7265dl7265 Member Posts: 1,381
    "I was disappointed in the body roll of the 325i"

    Really ? because the IS I tested over roads I've driven my 325i on for the last 6 months broke away at a measly 40mph. The 325i could easily do 60, and btw thats with a Huge tire advantage to the IS. Perhaps you drove a Sport version.

    DL
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I am not sure if this is Toyota's first fuel injection? My knowledge of the Toyota product-line is quite limited!

    Any Lexus IS fans willing to give an answer?

    Personally I prefer inline 6 engines than V6 engines. I would have preferred if the IS had a new 6 inline engine!
  • podrespodres Member Posts: 58
    I test drove an IS250 and a 325 tonight. I had never driven either one before, but have test driven lots of cars in the last 4 months. I prefer stick shift, and that's what I drove here.

    While I do not expect to buy either car, in my eyes the IS250 was the clear favorite, as long as the tight quarters do not bother you and as you don't intend to use the back seat much. If you plan on using one of these cars as a family sedan, forget the Lexus, get the BMW.

    Both cars seemed underpowered. The Lexus was surprisingly loud with engine noise. Not the remote feeling I had expected. The BMW made you feel every bump in the road, no matter how tiny. This with the regular suspension, not the sport tuning. The manual shift was superb. The Lexus manual shift was very very nice.

    IS250 fit and finish was far superior. The cabin amenities were extremely good, while the BMW was spartan. MSRP on both vehicles was about $32,500, and the engine sizes were the same, so this would seem too be a fair comparison.

    Your opinion may vary, but those were my impressions.
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