BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS

kdshapiro · August 2006

"I've never seen a Lexus bragger bashing a BMW"

You have to read through the posts, where the BMW has been "bashed" a number of times and called a POS. Yes, both sides are guilty of it. Neither is a bad car, their missions in life, although they do overlap, are different.

louiswei · August 2006

Yes, I saw the post you were talking about. Wasn't aware that it was there before. Also agree on these 2 cars are very different in both design philosophy and intended market demography. It is really pointless to keep mentioning Lexus' quality and BMW's driving dynamics. However, one thing I am sure is: at around $40K, neither one of these cars is POS.

graphicguy · August 2006

at around $40K, neither one of these cars is POS.

Dead-on right. Different demographic, as you say.

killerbunny · August 2006

Dead-on right. Different demographic, as you say.

Very true.

The quantity advantage of the 3 series is nothing to be bragged about. Toyota Corolla is the best selling car in the world. Does that make the Corolla a better car than a 330? Obviously no, since the demographics are different. Same goes to the IS. The targetted customer groups are close with the 3 vs. the IS, but still not identical.

kdshapiro · August 2006

The quantity gives an indication of how the consumers view the segment. Corolla to 330 is meaningless. G35 to 330 has a lot of meaning, however, numbers fail to take into account manufacturers target vs actual and manufacturing capacity.

graphicguy · August 2006

As always, the 3 Series buyer puts a premium on performance, driving dynamics, "that BMW feel" with a healthy amount of "luxury" thrown in.

The IS buyer puts longevity, ride, quietness in high regard with some lux and sport thrown in. I also drove the ES350 when I was test driving. That throws even more lux, but less sport, into the equation.

At least, that's the way I perceived them when I was test driving and comparing the two.

Nothing wrong with either. Just different approaches.

All that said, I think either car would serve their owners well even if someone wanted to drive them 150,000 miles. Personally, I'm lucky to keep my cars until they have 50,000 miles on them.

I will say that I've got a neighbor who has passed down an '87 325i, that he bought new, from himself, to his wife, to his son and daughter. They're still driving it with more than 200,000 miles on the clock. It still runs great (but could use a paint job).

kdshapiro · August 2006

Head on over to automobilemag.com. 0-60 in 5.1 secs.

lexus_jn · August 2006

That's true. 3-series has many trims as compared to IS so we can't have an orange vs apple comparison.

ivan_99 · August 2006

The mid 13s quarter mile is the thing that opens my eyes.

Its more like an M3 litewith more torque.

Will be interesting to see what Dinan does with it.

kdshapiro · August 2006

Dinan could probably shave a second from that time. Woot!

ivan_99 · September 2006

Its surprising not to see many posts regarding the new 335i.

The IS crowd (for half a year or so) had the crown as the drag race king (within the category of course) and there was a flurry of posts heralding the new King. Most other qualities of the vehicles are subjective; such as styling.

Ive had my C&D issue for almost 2 weeks now and havent see one post boasting on the 335is very impressive drag strip results. Not to say that is the sole mission of a BMWprobably far from itand I would dissuade most people from purchasing a vehicle based on stats anywaybut still  very impressive.

What is really staggering is the vehicles 0-100at 12.1 sec. This is as fast as a 911 Carrera (3.6) (of course with so many 911 variations it's hard to pin anything down), and a whole second faster than the new G35 (I believe ties the IS ) which is no slouch eitherplus their EPA est of 29-30mpg on the highway.

The C&D articlethough not a full test ended off with Wow. Nuff said..

Maybe people are waiting to test it themselves before posting?

cdnpinhead · September 2006

Yeah, that's the reason.

You bet.

. . .or not. The IS is quiet & peaceful & used to win the drag race.

Not so much these days.

graphicguy · September 2006

I saw that C&D article myself. They were "gushing" over the 335i. Of course, there's much more to a car than 0-60 and 1/4 times.

As they say...."there's always going to be someone richer, better looking and thinner than you". I'll add to that...."there's always going to be a car faster than yours".

After having gone through the recent "muscle car revival" with one of my previous cars being a new Mustang GT, I've kind of settled into having a quick car that does everything well, rather than a "fast car" that falls down in other areas.

Of course, the 335i qualifies as being a fast car that does many, many things well....at least from what I've read.

When my dealer gets some 335is in stock, I'm going to have to take one for a spin.

kdshapiro · September 2006

I read the C&D, R&T, Automobile mag and where else? The new magazines were out for Sept at the local supermarket, so I perused them while shopping. Interesting read this month in all mags.

webby1 · September 2006

I test drove it yesterday...here are some early comments:
I went to my dealer today to wash my 330i and guess what...they had one 335i ( black ).
I was the first to drive it....went for approx 1/2 hr ride...salesman ( young kid ) was with me and we had some fun...the engine is a jewel ! very quiet until you step on it..
The car is very powerful...floored it a few times from 120 k/h and it seemed almost instantaneous up to 180 and pulling strong...had to back off or loose my license.
What was impressive was the tires (runflats) 18 "...I heard so many bad things but these Bridgestone Potenzas were good....did not feel hard and no vibrations or harmonics at any speed.
Love the active steering....feels like a go cart at lower speeds and firms up nicely at higher speeds...like driving on railroad tracks.
The looks are OK....perhaps I was expecting more....but this is personal.
I think BMW has a winner with this one...the only thing that pisses me off that in Canada the price starts at 51,400 and in USA it is approx 40 k's !
Webby

ivan_99 · September 2006

there's much more to a car than 0-60 and 1/4 times.

Yeahmy disclaimer was and I would dissuade most people from purchasing a vehicle based on stats anyway

Im not much of a lets burn the clutch at every light kinda guy anymore anywaybut wont hesitate to lay the power on when coming through a turn

ivan_99 · September 2006

the only thing that pisses me off that in Canada the price starts at 51,400 and in USA it is approx 40 k's !

Im not sure how international pricing is setbut yes40K USD is 44K CDNplus those CDN taxes on the higher amount. Maybe a European delivery?

Ive notice other imports are expensive in Canada as wellAcura, Infinitibut some domestics are pretty cheapChrysler (maybe because they have a plant in Ontario).

kdshapiro · September 2006

"Yeahmy disclaimer was and I would dissuade most people from purchasing a vehicle based on stats anyway"

Mustang anyone? Vette anyone? Would anyone buy the 'Stang or 'Vette if all they came with was an anemic 2.5L engine that put out 160 horse?

People do buy cars based on stats alone and there isn't anything wrong with it. Who am I to tell someone how to spend their money?

ivan_99 · September 2006

I dont tellI advise. :shades:

Some acceleration stats are more valid in my book than others. For MOST people 5-60 is more representative of what they will attempt. Unless they spend weekend after weekend slipping their clutch from various rpms to find the optimalor brake torque their automatics.

My main point is even if a vehicle has an impressive stat, it may not translate into how you like to drivefor example a Honda S2000 revs up to approx 9K rpm with power way up therea VW TDI (1.9 for example) makes a lot of power down low but the 0-60 is not that impressive.

If my wife were testing these two cars, she would not go to 9K rpmso her conclusion would be the VW TDI is faster (or feels faster) then the S2000.

Other performance stats such as slalomwell Im not an expert so maybe its just mebut Ill have a wide margin just doing run after run in the same car.

Then of course the 335 is turbo chargedso your real world results will be much better in Denver in a 335i than an IS350.

graphicguy · September 2006

Oh....believe me...I'm an acceleration junky. As a former Mustang owner, that car was exhilerating when you pressed down the go pedal. Matter of fact, we had an entire argument on the Mustang vs GTO thread a while back.

As an overall driving experience, I've yet to find handling/ride/steering/braking that equals what Audis and BMWs offer, however.

Truth told, if I could find even a wee bit of love for the G35s interior ('07 included), I'd probably would have opted for it and saved a few thou.

Almost pulled the trigger on an IS350. Space and the fact that you couldn't fold down the back seat was the eventual deal killer on that car. Plus, the exterior styling really didn't do much for me either.

While I am interested in the 335i because of the added power, I can't say I'm in any way, shape or form interested in going any faster than the 330i will go.

tenhanger · September 2006

Anyone who picks BMW simply bc he likes the status of it, is a typical marketing-inspired dufus. If Lexus was a fly-by-night and BMW a standard, his keeping the #1 ranking on the BMW might make sense. But Lexus is a tried and true brand for the duration. It beat the BMW by 1 second in 0-60?? Holy Cow!

What was NOT mentioned, was Lexus' FAR superior fault tolerance vs. BMW. With Lexus, you get a machine that doesn't break from routine wear, whereas BMW falls far lower in that category. How much you going to enjoy going thru those cones (seriously, do we normally drive straight, or thru cones???) when your "Bimmer" is parked at the dealership 10 days per year?

It's clear to me that both of these guys recognize the Lexus is the winner, but are defaulting to the "safe" choice of BMW because of their yuppie 40-something heritage of wanting a status symbol instead of jumping onto the clear winning choice. Again, if Lexus weren't going to continue destroying the BMW from now until the next 10-20 years, I'd understand their bent better. But the [non-permissible content removed] are going to make superior cars until the Germans are left selling to yuppies only. Who the heck likes yuppies anyway??

ivan_99 · September 2006

It beat the BMW by 1 second in 0-60?? Holy Cow!

The cow is now hamburger meat...the 335 is faster 0-60 and quarter mile.

a machine that doesn't break from routine wear, whereas BMW falls far lower in that category.

Old fogies (Lexus has an old demographic) drive slow..and as such do not put as much stress on a vehicle. I drive hard...trust me, I could break a Lexus.

I don't remember reliability stats of the old IS...but as I recall the old GS had more problems than other Lexus automobiles...probably because the owners attempted to Drive them.

It's clear to me that both of these guys recognize the Lexus is the winner, but are defaulting to the "safe" choice of BMW

I'd say Lexus is the safe choice...something I'd buy for my mother...the BMW has more of a specific mission (performance/luxury)

dhamilton · September 2006

I think you got "safe" and "yuppy" all mixed up.

from_fl · September 2006

...the BMW has more of a specific mission ...

The mission is parked at shop often.

kdshapiro · September 2006

"The mission is parked at shop often"

..while waiting for friends at the Lexus dealer who have to bring their cars in for service.

fasterthanyou · September 2006

This remarks about reliability are absolutely ridiculuos. While anybody can test drive a car and see the performance and quality nobody can actually be sure that this reliability reports are accurate. Even if they are...
the difference between the most reliable car and the one on the 10th place is extremely small. I prefer to drive an amazing car like BMW and have lets say 1.5% chances to have a problem than to drive a pseudo-luxury maker like Lexus having only 1% chances to have a problem. You might consider also the possibility of getting a Lexus with problems which will put you in the position of having not only a car that gives no joy to the driver but an unreliable car too. Leave the insecurity aside and get in a man's car. Reliability reports are for...

kdshapiro · September 2006

"Leave the insecurity aside and get in a man's car. Reliability reports are for... "

I agree with your remarks about reliability. Most cars today are reliable, and every make has had or will have at some time issues with their cars. It is true that Lexus has mission for reliability...but there cars are still mechanical devices nonetheless.

So I would phrase your sentence as:

"Leave the insecurity aside and get the car you want."

fasterthanyou · November 2006

"So I would phrase your sentence as:"
"Leave the insecurity aside and get the car you want"

This is what people do... they buy there cars because they WANT them but many times they want them for the wrong reasons. What I suggested is for them not to get a lesser car(Lexus) for the wrong reasons(supposedly better reliability)but to choose a car based entirely on the driving experience.
So, no offence but I suggest from now on you phrase your own sentences. I really don't believe mine need any "improvement".

kdshapiro · November 2006

"they buy there cars because they WANT them but many times they want them for the wrong reasons."

Couldn't disagree more. People buy a car for their right reasons. However I agree they buy a car for your wrong reasons.

So no offense at taken at all, we're having a discussion in a public forum.

But I think we're on the same side of the fence. We both agree to get the car that suits their needs most closey. We also agree that each of us has different priorities that effect our decisions.

tl67 · November 2006

So, no offence but I suggest from now on you phrase your own sentences. I really don't believe mine need any "improvement".

Actually, smart guy, you spelled offense wrong. So, maybe your sentences do need a little work?

pat · November 2006

Not that it matters because we are not here to conduct spelling lessons, but "offence" is an acceptable variation to "offense".

What do you think about the topic?

caravan2 · November 2006

dont you think the lexus should win?

ivan_99 · November 2006

Win what?

fedlawman · November 2006

I'm tempted, but I'm not going to bite...

circlew · November 2006

In 2006, comparo had BMW 3 series edge out the Lexus. HP battle was on Lexus side but 3 wins as the all around champ as usual.

2007 - HP battle is back with BMW...actually, they are underrating the power and performance specs.

Let's wait for test results to appear.

Regards,
OW

readerreader · December 2006

Many cars are entering and blowing the segment right open
The topic should have been expanded to include the G35 and A4.

kdshapiro · December 2006

Check out the Entry Level Luxury Sedans forum. That board has most of the cars in that segment. This is meant to be a comparo board between the 350 and the 3 series.

readerreader · December 2006

Oh. This board is slightly confusing.
It is difficult to know where I have been and where I have not been.

kdshapiro · December 2006

This is the link. Welcome to Edmunds. After tooling around a while you get used to it. The thing to do is track the forums you want, sort of like favorites.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.ef0a892/7229

If you have any questions, post in this forum. A bunch of helpful people will be there to guide you.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.eea0957/3375

In addition, you can always start a new post with the title: Host Help :P. As edmunds boards have hosts assigned to each of the forums to help as needed.

pat · December 2006

kd gives you some good suggestions, but let me add that emailing a host is a faster way to get help than posting. We all have our email addresses in our profiles.

Welcome!

rgg3000 · January 2007

I bought the new 335i over the lexus Is350. The lexus feels to much like a Toyota with an L on the grill instead of a true luxury car. True, its really quiet and reliability is excellent, but the lexus lacks soul. As soon as I started the lexus' engine everything felt so dull. Even the leather in the car felt dull. The BMW has more character and as well it connects you, the driver, to the road. I enjoy myself greatly when I drive the BMW and if Im going to pay over $40k for an entry-level luxury car, I dont want to pay for a Toyota without soul.

rgg3000 · January 2007

I doubt it seriously if Lexus is destroying BMW when Toyota is having problems selling Lexus to their own Japanese demestic market because the [non-permissible content removed] are focused on BMW, Mercedes, and Audi. Lexus sells only in the U.S. and Great Britain but the rest of the world know which is truely the best choice.

louiswei · January 2007

Lexus sells only in the U.S. and Great Britain but the rest of the world know which is truely the best choice.

Not ture.

Lexus is now available in Europe, China and Taiwan as well. As matter of fact in Taiwan Lexus is the number 1 selling luxury brand, ahead of both BMW and MB.

louiswei · January 2007

Test drove the 335i twice last week, once with non-sports and another with sports. I agree that the Bimmer handles better, steering feels sharper and doesn't have IS' artificial stiffness feel. However, the fit and finish and overall quality lacks behind the Lexus. Although the interior material is first grade but doesn't have the refinement one would find in the IS. The twin turbo I6 didn't feel much faster than IS' V6. I think they are very comparable with the IS in ECT power mode.

Oh yeah and the Bimmer's interior layout is plain ugly. Wish they could bring E46's interior back.

kdshapiro · January 2007

But it begs the question, of why BMW is preferred in Japan over Toyota.

louiswei · January 2007

Hmm...I think Toyota still out-sells BMW in Japan, it's the Lexus that is behind. 2006 is the first year Lexus being sold in Japan so I said give it time and its sell number has only one direction to go and that's up.

Toyota has been offering Lexus in Taiwan for at least over 5 years so its number one luxury brand status didn't happen overnight.

from_fl · January 2007

Good report. I always has doubts about buying my IS over BMW 3xx. Your statements remove such thinking. Thanks.

louiswei · January 2007

from_fl, I see that you are in Orlando, are you a Club Lexus member? I see that they do have regular meetings every month. I just moved from Atlanta to Melbourne, which is not that far away from Orlando.

kdshapiro · January 2007

You think or you know? Japanese crave BMWs.

louiswei · January 2007

I know the Japanese crave BMWs. However, I GUARANTEE and I'll bet my IS350 on that the Lexus sales number can only go up in Japan. Come on, it's common sense, 2006 was their FIRST year over there.

Would it ever overtake BMW in Japan? That's another story then...

Same for the European market. Lexus can only do better as well. How much better? Who knows.

BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS

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