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BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS

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Comments

  • rayngrayng Member Posts: 70
    Other than bragging rights at the local watering hole, how many IS or 3 series owners would actually drive their cars to the limit? As a fan and former owner of an e46, I never took my car to Willowsprings or raced any Civics down our busy L.A. streets.

    Ultimately, the choice between these two fine cars come down to luxury vs. panache. Lexus is luxury, and BMW has more panache.

    I wonder who in the forum are shopping e90 vs a4 or c350? Why not compare is350 to g35? I think the European cars compare better than Europe vs Japanese.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Feel free to start up a comparo that strikes you of interest. We'll be happy to meet you there. :)
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    When I had a G35 I routinely pushed it to the limits…everyday. Limits meaning breaking the back end loose…only a foot or so (you could turn off the electric-nanny).

    Never a race track…would void insurance.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    The IS300 was splendid. Especially with LSD,i6, manual and withoutthat oppressive electronic nanny called VDIM.

    Those were the glorious historic days when I even pondered buying an IS300 versus a BMW 3.

    Unfortunately today is not yesterday and we are left with the current IS350. Shame, shame Toyota :(

    most people in japan ride trains and bicycles to work. it is no secret that the rich japanese people who can afford cars (not many) like foreign cars better.

    Historically you are correct, Japan had few wealthy people during the post-war era fifty years ago. Today is a different story just like today the glorious IS300 is a distant memory of the past.

    The bottom line is that the IS350 is able to compete with the likes of Acura TL, Infiniti G35 and maybe even the MB C350.

    But the BMW 3 series remains the inspiration for all auto marques . Who knows maybe in our lifetime or our grandchildrens' lifetime Toyota will get it right.

    Patience is a virtue, but I wont wait! I will just buy the 3 series instead.
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    "Today is a different story just like today the glorious IS300 is a distant memory of the past."

    dewey, it is not too late to buy an IS 300; it's not like all the 2005 models are being crushed by a wrecker!

    You can still buy one of these glorious automobiles!

    I think the problem with society today is that everyone who has an opinion believes that their preference suits the lifestyle of everybody elses'.

    Let's keep a little variety in our car selections, shall we?

    I don't think we need 12 BMW modeled companies out there; the IS 350 minus lack of a simple VDIM off-switch would be great. For all those who like occasional drives where you rip the shreds out of your wheels and push your car to the max, the complicated, albeit seemingly worthwhile VDIM shut off procedure is a great option to let all that stress out!

    I hear Lexus is adding a switch to the next MY. :surprise:

    Just in time for my plans to buy myself one for my 21st birthday next summer. Splendid.
  • pg48477pg48477 Member Posts: 309
    I also highly doubt that people most people post on this forum. I also more then sure that most people in this forum own manual or did at some point.

    I'm sure it came up before, but the reason many magazines compare manual 3 with automatic IS is very simple. They want to compare the sportiest car of each kind, for that reason they always pick manual 330. Actually for the compro Audi vs. BMW, Audi basically offered A4 2.0T with manual as the sportiest entry sedan not 3.2 automatic. I guess 0-60 is not everything when it comes to performance at least for BMW and Audi, maybe for Lexus it is. Every stat is important when comparing performance.
  • pg48477pg48477 Member Posts: 309
    I owed a 325 MT ofcourse, and took it to the limit many times, not on the race track. If you know how to drive and love doing it there is no substitute for BMW, I have not driven any Porsches lately:) Even in a daily compute one can appreciate driving dynamics of BMW, I know I do.
  • jaxrunnerjaxrunner Member Posts: 5
    Im surprised the brakes on the IS350 (60-0 120') are inferior to the previous model, 60-0 was around 115ft. I understand the brakes come from the current GS which does it in 129' (that sucks) and the previous GS also did it in 115'. Im curious...I though the next generation should be better in every aspect...Lexus what happened?
    I know some may say its only 5' but thats a big difference to me and if im deciding between the BMW 330 and the IS350 or any other car I will likely go with the former.

    I just dont get how the brake performace decreases, the previous 330 had a greater stopping distance than its current model (I believe > 120')and they improved it, just seems like common sense or at least keep it the same.
  • pg48477pg48477 Member Posts: 309
    Actually TL will do quite well in the exercise, it does handle well on high speeds. Acceleration and turning at around 20-30 can be a problem. Torque steer is not noticeable at 90 MPH. To get BMW one need to drive it on the curvy roads, I was very surprised that TL got better numbers that 3, it does have wider tires up front, might not feel as good as 3 but I guess grips fine.
  • jaxrunnerjaxrunner Member Posts: 5
    I understand you aren't splitting hairs about 0-60 times but honestly if the 0-60 specs were swapped with the bmw and IS350 would you try to reverse the argument and add one more justification the the BMW..."wow this thing is really fast, much faster than the lexus" I think many people would including the editors.

    Im glad to see you make real world statements about the noise between the two; even though that is surprising since lexus cars are usually much quieter and about body sway (I remember reading a review between bmw and the G35 and it mentioned the bmw had more body sway than the G35, pics proved this, and editors still justified the "BMW's experience"); these are the real world things I want to here. I keep hearing the ultimate driving experience that BMW gives and they are fun to drive. Is the lexus not fun or is the BMW just that much more fun? Secondly, at what cost does the ultimate driving experience come...I feel much more comfortable buying a used lexus vs buying a used BMW because I read so many horror stories about the previous generation 3 series.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    I think the new IS is about 250lbs heavier so that may have something to do with it..

    I’d rather have brakes that have better feel than ones that stop quicker; although I suppose if I were going 60mph and 116’ from a wall I’d rather have the old brakes.
  • rats13rats13 Member Posts: 42
    Honetly I'm coming out of a 1996 Accord so either car would be plenty fast and fun for me.

    Trust me I am in your boat in that I was waaayyyy more comfortable buy a Lexus vs BMW but I am taking the plunge on the BMW mostly due to tight interior space.

    BTW the previous 3-series get pretty dang good reliability ratings from consumer reports.
  • best4best4 Member Posts: 26
    When I drove the TL, the car changed lanes on the interstate at 70 MPH when I floored it and let go of the wheel. That is torque steer! Neither the BMW or the Lexus had that problem. The sales guy told me "that is front wheel drive for you". We left the dealer.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Remind me not to ride beside you on the interstate. I'd rather people hold on to the wheel! ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Actually TL will do quite well in the exercise, it does handle well on high speeds. Acceleration and turning at around 20-30 can be a problem. Torque steer is not noticeable at 90 MPH. To get BMW one need to drive it on the curvy roads, I was very surprised that TL got better numbers that 3, it does have wider tires up front, might not feel as good as 3 but I guess grips fine.

    A friend of mine who is currently at Alabama (Roll Tide) has a TL. I drove it one night when he decided he didn't want to drive, and my car was too small for all of us (5 people). I have a 1996 Accord, and mus say that I like the heavier steering of my old Honda (and now, my new Honda) compared to the finger-light feeling of his TL. It has a more germanic (read Audi/Bimmer/Porsche) feel to it, and it's over ten years old!

    You may all scoff at this, but I drove an A4 Cabriolet 1.8T last Novemeber, and found that it was not as peppy as my 2006 Accord I-4, nor did it handle as well. I'm guessing this is due to a heavier feeling car, but I didn't like it.

    Honda cars have handling down-pat. I think Acura engineers need to look at their lowlier counterparts in getting a fun to drive car to market.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Your 1996 Accord has nearly the identical wheelbase and width of the new Civic, plus in the EX I4 trim it makes 5 more hp, and is within 100lbs of the Civic.

    I actually prefer the Honda’s of the late 80’s like an 89 Civic Si. Honda’s have lost a lot of feeling as of late IMO, although I have not driven the latest Si.

    A4 Cab with 1.8T is a heavy car with not enough power…for a sports car that is.
  • pg48477pg48477 Member Posts: 309
    I had no idea TL has so much power and torque that it torque steers at 70 MPH with 235 wide tires. Before I leased BMW I had 2002 TL-S and never noticed torque steer at such high speed.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Topic: 2006 BMW 3-Series vs. 2006 Lexus IS

    Discussion: Compares subject vehicles to each other.

    Ready, set, go!!

    :)
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Discussion: Compares subject vehicles to each other.

    Ready, set, go!!

    And Vroooom!

    Lexus brought a knife to a gunfight and still managed to shoot itself in the foot. The 3 Series is indeed the better car

    Nope the above are not my words although the truth is captured quite well with the above quote.
    For all you well informed and conversant IS350 vs. 330 debaters here I have linked an objective IS versus E90 comparison review that just happens to be the best one I read so far in my entire life. Enjoy the riveting and tantalizing details:

    link title
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    I recall someone saying that the IS with its big engine (3.5L) and big horsepower (306 hp), it manages to have worse MPG than the 3 series'.

    Here are the stats from the review:

    330i: FUEL MILEAGE
    EPA combined: 23.52 mpg
    AW overall: 22.12 mpg

    IS 350: FUEL MILEAGE
    EPA combined: 23.66 mpg
    AW overall: 28.64 mpg

    Would that person like to come from out of the woodwork now?

    Quote: "Lexus could suddenly find itself winning some of these inevitable comparison tests if it would just reprogram a few algorithms. For whatever reason, it won’t."

    Speaks for itself, doesn't it?

    dewey, I believe your boldened text, which came after the portion I decided to quote, contradicts itself. Something is seriously wrong with your logic; it is almost robotic for you to pick the worst thing possible to trash the IS.

    The quote I selected suggests that the IS would be the victor, in more peoples' minds than now, if VDIM were shut off.

    I know that I would not have a huge problem with having the IS 350 even without the off switch, because when I want to really let the tail spin out, I have a way of shutting it off, although impractical, the procedure would take 20 seconds. I understand, "20 seconds too long", yes, but if I don't want to buy new rubber every week, then 20 seconds worth my time and money to keep me out of the red!

    Here is a situation: Drive like a sane person, although "spirited" (cus Lord knows I like to have fun behind the wheel) on your commutes, etc., but when you have those opportunities to carve up the twisties and let the tail hang loose, turn off traction control! Turning off traction control could take all but 20 seconds! And then, you have nothing to complain about!

    "You can scramble the computer and cancel VDIM completely via a complicated pedal dance that must be performed every time you start the car, but Lexus doesn’t want you to know about that. In fact, Lexus reps swear to us there is no way to circumvent the system.

    So we left VDIM on for the slalom."

    Woah, woah, woah, woah, woah! And you call this your favourite review?! Argh!!!

    You drive me nuts! Only you could be riveted by that kind of review!
  • pg48477pg48477 Member Posts: 309
    Does anyone have the sales numbers for IS and 3, it wont tell you which car is better, however it will show which car is more popular, for whatever reason. My guess is that 3 beats IS in sales by a mile.
  • texasmerqtexasmerq Member Posts: 86
    I would say that is an accurate statement. The 3 series has also been out since May 2005 also so it actually will sell for about a model year and a half. To date I have seen 6 IS' on the road - a white one, a navy blue one, a black one, a beige one and 2 reddish maroon ones. I have seen a ton more 3 series but again they had a 6 month headstart. even with that advantage I'm sure the 3 will still outsell the IS for the time period they were both out.
  • jaxrunnerjaxrunner Member Posts: 5
    Good reply!

    I was thinking the same thing...they say it can be turned off, well why didnt they just try it and tell us how it compared with VDIM off.

    If editors can do rolling starts or drop the clutch to try to match claimed 0-60 time, surely one can take 20 seconds to disable a feature they claim is too intrusive...cmon people.
  • jaxrunnerjaxrunner Member Posts: 5
    IS350 w VDIM disabled

    The driver is supposedly chief engineer Suguya Fukusato who disabled VDIM during a debut.
    image
    image
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Well, guys, I took a couple of hours off yesterday afternoon and test drove both the latest 330i 6-speed and the Lexus IS350. Fortunately, I didn't have to take a pesky salesman in the passenger seat. They wanted to stay put and google over my 911S Cab and the thought of getting it in a trade. Right. ;)

    I hate to say it, but I was not that impressed with either car. At least not impressed enough to say, "it doesn't get any better than this". :(

    What has happened that cars barely big enough to carry 4 adults - actually, make that too small in the case of the Lexus - come in at over 3,400 and 3,500 lbs respectively?? :confuse: Here in wonderful DC, we pay an extra 1% in sales tax on vehicles weighing over 3,500 lbs. The only vehicles we have ever suffered that indecency with were SUV's. My 1995 Nissan Maxima, with room for 5 adults? 3,005 pounds. And with it's measly 190hp/205ftlbs, capable of 0-60 times in the 6.6 second range. It wasn't that long ago that I had considered the previous generation 530i 6-speed. Lighter than both of these "compacts".

    And, it was only a few years before that that I salivated over a previous generation BMW M3. The one with "only" 240 horsepower. The one that would completely blow away either of these 255 hp / 306 hp fatso's in a straight line, in the slalom, in braking. And be a sheer joy to drive. When I think compact sport sedan or coupe, that classic BMW is way above either of these 2006 vintage cars as setting the benchmark. (I can forgive the current M3's added weight, since the engine and chassis are that much better.)

    As far as the IS350 goes, any previous debate on the speed of the automatic transmission is moot. Taken through my test drive course, it displayed the same annoying tendency as the XC90 V8 6-speed we considered last winter. Downshift here, upshift there, extra shifts everywhere. If this is as good as it gets, just friggin shoot me when I can't shift my own with a real manual and a real clutch.

    Now for the good. These are both damn nice cars. Handling is very good and I certainly prefer RWD to the FWD setup on my TL 6-speed. The 330i still has a tighter, crisper feel in my opinion, but the IS350 was close.

    My bottom line here is that I would not buy either car. If I wanted 4-5 passenger space, I'd go with a 550i (which I also drove). If I could get by with a dimunitive back seat, I'd get an M3 coupe. Or stick with my 911S Cab. And if my budget didn't allow for those choices, I'd spend $33k on another TL 6-speed. Other than it's FWD disadvantage, it doesn't give up much to either of these more expensive, smaller cars. I guess I've outgrown the compact sport sedan option. Especially when they now weigh a quarter ton more than my old Maxima.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    My sentiments exactly habitat1.
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    They wanted to stay put and google over my 911S Cab and the thought of getting it in a trade. Right.
    I hate to say it, but I was not that impressed with either car.

    Come on, that's not fair.... You get out of your 911 and into a 330i and IS350. Of course you won't be very impressed! :P
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... And, it was only a few years before that that I salivated over a previous generation BMW M3. The one with "only" 240 horsepower. The one that would completely blow away either of these 255 hp / 306 hp fatso's in a straight line, ...

    Hold on. Didn't that generation M3 have 0-60 times in the 7 second range? :confuse: I don't think that's going to blow away even a current generation Civic Si in a straight line, let alone these two cars.
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    "Hold on. Didn't that generation M3 have 0-60 times in the 7 second range?"

    No, mid to high 5 sec.
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    "Hold on. Didn't that generation M3 have 0-60 times in the 7 second range?"

    No, mid to high 5 sec.

    I think the E30 M3 listed 0-60 times in the low-6's and the E36 in the mid-5's....
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    The E36 M3 was rated by BMW as 5.7 sec in 0-60. However, I recall road tests of broken in models ranging from 5.2 to 5.6. Back then, BMW was pretty conservative on their ratings. As Porsche is now. They claim a 0-60 of 4.7 seconds on the 911S. Various tests by R&T, MT, C&D, Automobile, etc. have all come in at 3.9 to 4.4. None have been as "slow" as 4.7. The only reference I could find on the E36 M3 in a quick Google was:

    E36 M3 Specs

    Without a doubt, the 240 hp E36 M3 was faster than the 255 hp 330i. And at least as quick as the IS350. But I'm not a drag racer and that wasn't the main point of my "disspointment". The E36, even in 4-door form, handled, steered, braked and just "felt" like a very nimble sports coupe. Quite a bit more so than the 3,400+ lb 330i, much more so than the 3,500+ lb IS350.

    Remember, I did acknowledge that these were both very nice cars. I was just trying to give historical perspective.

    And yes, before anyone throws it back at me, I'm also a few pounds heavier than I was 10 years ago. :cry: But at least I'm not trying to justify that as a good thing. ;)
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    me again ...

    We really need to try to not get into these extraneous off-topic diversions. We have several ongoing discussions where things are more free-form than they are here, but the topic needs to dictate the conversation ... and if that really can't be honored here, we're going to have to move on.

    Let me ask that those who are interested in comparing vehicles which are not in our subject line to those that are - or any other subset of interest - take a look at what's already underway on the Sedans Comparison board. If what you want to discuss is not there, feel free to fire up a new conversation.

    Meanwhile, if this discussion cannot remain focused on the defined topic, we'll need to wrap it up.
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    "The picture next to this writing should tell you everything you need to know about the new Lexus IS. In case you couldn't tell, that's roughly 28 yards worth of shredded tires laid through smoky burnouts and donuts on Downsview airstrip during the car's press introduction last week."
    image
    (Photo: Justin Couture, Canadian Auto Press)

    Let's see a 330i try to do this! You wouldn't seriously be able to say a 330i is more fun when an IS 350 is capable of doing this! And you wonder why they are afraid of letting average sport sedan-buying Joes push this puppy without some sort of nanny to slap them on their wrists!
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    Let's see a 330i try to do this! You wouldn't seriously be able to say a 330i is more fun when an IS 350 is capable of doing this! And you wonder why they are afraid of letting average sport sedan-buying Joes push this puppy without some sort of nanny to slap them on their wrists!

    I have a feeling a 330i would have no problem doing this.... especially since you can get the 330i with a stick. (Ooohhh... zing!) :P
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Is this an aerial view of combines harvesting wheat?

    Look what the shredded tires of a BMW 330 did below:

    image
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Yeah, that's just what the enthusiast sports sedan buyer wants. A car that can lay rubber and do donuts on an airstrip, but requires you to put up with a overly active slushbox and annoying electronic "nanny" the rest of the 10,000 to 15,000 miles most of us drive a year. Heck, if you want to have fun at an airstrip, you can rent a Mustang GT from Hertz once a year. :confuse:

    Seriously, my test drives confirmed that, until the IS350 comes with a short throw 6 speed manual, it will NEVER compete with the 330i for a serious driving enthusiast's (NOT boy racer's) wallet. Yeah, I know that 70% of 3-series have automatics, but it's the other 30% that represent the "enthusiasts" and if not for them, this forum - and perhaps all of Edmunds - wouldn't exist.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    hmm, did I miss something? Didn't you just described the 330i as an overweight pig? Apparenntly such a car should have no appeal to the "real enthusiasts," who should really be driving a 911S. On the other hand, if we do accept the theory that 330i manual has appeal to the "real enthusiats," and you are not one of them (as your earlier professed disappointment attested), then perhaps Edmunds is for a bigger crowd than the narrow-minded "real tnthusiasts."

    I actually agree with both points.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    That's a foregone conclusion. 3 series is the only sedan that BMW sells in this price range, whereas Lexus/Toyota sells two other high volume sedans in the same price range, cannibalizing sales.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    The fact that I might prefer a 4 passenger (or in IS350 case 2+2 passenger) that weighed less than 3,400+ and 3,500+ pounds has nothing to do with (and does not contradict) that I consider a manual transmission a mandatory prerequisite of a "sports sedan".

    "Overweight pig" is your term, not mine. But, had I been so impolite, it wouldn't have been directed at the 330i.

    Maybe I'm missing something, but notwithstanding the attractive interior and powerful engine, are you suggesting that a 3,500+ pound curb weight, almost useless back seat and automatic only transmission are good things?
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    Look, the backseat of the IS 350 isn't exactly "almost useless". Sure, its not a living room, but with somebody my size up front, and a clone of myself sitting in the back I fit just fine, in fact, although "smallish" hell of a lot more comfortable than the 3 series' stiff bench.

    I am 5'11", 200 lbs, size 13 shoes.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    are you suggesting that a 3,500+ pound curb weight, almost useless back seat and automatic only transmission are good things?

    I would not mind these traits in a convertible ;-) Look, everyone has different preferences and priorities. It's rather presumptious to say "real enthusiasts" this or that, or who belongs on Edmund's forum.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Crap, now you've got me planning to head back to the Lexus dealer while I'm out running errands this afternoon. I was pretty certain that I set the driver's seat to my preferred settings before hopping in the back. I only had an inch or two to spare before my knees would have been touching the seatback. And I'm only 5'7". If, in fact, the driver's seat was still at the settings that the salesman who pulled the car around had it at (est. 6'), then there may be more room than I thought. If I was mistaken, I'll admit it.

    Brightness:

    I'm not trying to claim any personal authority on who is a "real enthusiast" and who isn't. But I have to believe that most people that would catagorize themselves as driving enthusiasts would expect either a manual or, at a bare minimum, an advanced SMG to be offered in a so-called compact "sport sedan". The fact that the Lexus doesn't even offer it in the IS350 is an indication to me of their lack of seriousness in appealing to that market segment.

    If it's any consolation, I was just as critical of the AMG C32 when I was in the sport sedan market a couple of years ago.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    I doubt very much people like kdshapiro would consider themselves anything short of being drivingenthusiats just because they opted for automatic; nor should they. The reality is that the overwhelming majority of 3 series are sold with automatic, so are the A4's, C's and AMG C's, CTS, G35, TL and just about any sport sedan, compact or otherwise. Even ultra sportscars like Corvettes are sold mostly with automatics. That's just the reality that we are living in. Theories contrary to reality are often referred to as "fantasies" ;-)
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    This horse is about as dead as it's going to get. Somebody can drive a bloody Chrysler minivan and consider themselves a driving enthusaist. Good for them, I say. But the fact that Lexus doesn't EVEN OFFER a manual transmission in their MOST SERIOUS version of the IS, is IMO a laughable oversight. And an unnecessary one, given that they offer it in the IS250.

    The "reality" we are living in, I will concede, is that most people DO NOT consider themselves "driving enthusaists". (The Camry outsells the IS, GS, 3 series and 5 series combined). But for a high percentage of those that do, a manual transmission is preferred.

    I also don't accept the "majority rules" theory. My international friends are bemused by the popularity of NASCAR in this country. If this means that driving around a banked oval counterclockwise represents the ultimate test of driving skill and automotive engineering, then we really are a worldwide embarassment. I try to assure them that there is an enlightened minority in the US that doesn't think Formula One is a hair shampoo.

    Let's rest it. You think Lexus is on the right track. They may be, but they would be taken a lot more seriously had they offered a manual in the IS350.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Let's rest it. You think Lexus is on the right track. They may be, but they would be taken a lot more seriously had they offered a manual in the IS350.

    Naah, I dont think so. Even with a stick a IS is not a serious competitor to a 3 series. The IS is a far cry from the crisp handling of a 3 series.

    The folks in Tokyo or Nagoya have still some work to do in order to be taken a bit more seriously in the sport sedan segment. Currently the L logo is represented best by the majority of their autos which happens to be re-badged appliance-like Highlanders and Camrys ?

    So a IS350 is a serious VDIM slushbox sport sedan?
    Maybe if you are an Avalon driver who considers his car a performance car just because of its 0-60 stats. It is this type of driver that the IS is made for.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Nor sure how having a manual on offer affects the 70% landslide majority who choose to have automatic with their 3 series purchases. Can they swap out for a manual tranny on different days of the week? While the majority of the general public do not consider themselves "driving enthusiasts," I'd be hard pressed to believe that the vast majority of BMW 3 series buyers are not "driving enthusiasts"; what, are they then poseurs? ;-)
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Naah, I dont think so. Even with a stick a IS is not a serious competitor to a 3 series. The IS is a far cry from the crisp handling of a 3 series.

    The folks in Tokyo or Nagoya have still some work to do in order to be taken a bit more seriously in the sport sedan segment.

    Not sure how you define "a far cry." As it currently stands, IS300 out-handles a E46, E90 out-handles IS350 with VDIM on by default. As we know, E90 is a softer-riding car than the E46.

    Currently the L logo is represented best by the majority of their autos which happens to be re-badged appliance-like Highlanders and Camrys ?

    The topic is "IS vs. 3 series" not "Lexus vs. BMW" There are plenty other forums on which we can rehash the debate on the latter point.

    Maybe if you are an Avalon driver who considers his car a performance car just because of its 0-60 stats. It is this type of driver that the IS is made for.

    Basic logic error: Avalons are made for Avalon drivers. IS are made for IS drivers, and 70% of would-be BMW 3 series buyers who would be buying with an automatic . . . until the manual tranny version is out, then the remaining 30%. BTW, that's not even counting the IS250, which is already available with manual.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I'd be hard pressed to believe that the vast majority of BMW 3 series buyers are not "driving enthusiasts"; what, are they then poseurs?

    Deja vu? With 20/20 vision I can predict that you will repeat the same words above over and over again even when it makes little sense.

    Not sure how you define "a far cry." As it currently stands, IS300 out-handles a E46, E90 out-handles IS350 with VDIM on by default. As we know, E90 is a softer-riding car than the E46.

    Wow now that is real convincing. If only the IS did not have VDIM. If only the IS could drive like a BMW? If only the IS could win top car prizes for being the best sport sedan? If only the world did not have poverty and ignorance? Ifs and more ifs does not change the facts. The IS VDIM is a handling-killer and no ifs and buts about that.
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    Quote: "Lexus could suddenly find itself winning some of these inevitable comparison tests if it would just reprogram a few algorithms. For whatever reason, it won’t."

    Speaks for itself, doesn't it?

    dewey, I believe your boldened text, which came after the portion I decided to quote, contradicts itself. Something is seriously wrong with your logic; it is almost robotic for you to pick the worst thing possible to trash the IS.

    The quote I selected suggests that the IS would be the victor, in more peoples' minds than now, if VDIM were shut off.

    I know that I would not have a huge problem with having the IS 350 even without the off switch, because when I want to really let the tail spin out, I have a way of shutting it off, although impractical, the procedure would take 20 seconds. I understand, "20 seconds too long", yes, but if I don't want to buy new rubber every week, then 20 seconds worth my time and money to keep me out of the red!

    Here is a situation: Drive like a sane person, although "spirited" (cus Lord knows I like to have fun behind the wheel) on your commutes, etc., but when you have those opportunities to carve up the twisties and let the tail hang loose, turn off traction control! Turning off traction control could take all but 20 seconds! And then, you have nothing to complain about!

    "You can scramble the computer and cancel VDIM completely via a complicated pedal dance that must be performed every time you start the car, but Lexus doesn’t want you to know about that. In fact, Lexus reps swear to us there is no way to circumvent the system.

    So we left VDIM on for the slalom."

    Woah, woah, woah, woah, woah! And you call this your favourite review?! Argh!!!

    You drive me nuts! Only you could be riveted by that kind of review!

    They could have turned off VDIM, but didn't. Could it be that they were afraid the IS would have edged out the 3?

    Everyone is up in a rioting fashion when the 3 is matched with an AT, when the MT is the sportier choice, but nobody says a thing when they mention an option to shutoff VDIM for a more sport oriented comparison and don't.

    Something isn't sitting right.

    Saying that VDIM should be shut-off is as official as much testing a 3 with MT; hardly anybody buys the MT, but it is offered!
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Deja vu? With 20/20 vision I can predict that you will repeat the same words above over and over again even when it makes little sense.

    It is still a question waiting for an answer from you. If all buyers of automatics are not "driving enthusiasts," and 70% BMW's are purchased with automatics, doesn't that make most BMW buyers disqualified from being driving enthusiasts? Very simple logic indeed. You can ask kdshapiro whether he considers himself a driving enthusiast, then ask hpoweders, both seem to be very enthusiastic about their steptronic BMW's, and I'm inclined to believe them. Please answer the simple logic question or retract or your earlier assertion, instead of launching into another round of pointless personal attacks.

    Wow now that is real convincing. If only the IS did not have VDIM. If only the IS could drive like a BMW? If only the IS could win top car prizes for being the best sport sedan? If only the world did not have poverty and ignorance? Ifs and more ifs does not change the facts. The IS VDIM is a handling-killer and no ifs and buts about that.

    Notice, I never even said the current IS without VDIM would out-handle E90. IS350 with VDIM turned on is the comparison tests have covered; there is no comparison test with VDIM off yet. I'm not making up any projections here. All I said was that IS300 out-handled E46, whereas E90 out-handled IS350 with VDIM; both statements were simple recap of well-known results of past comparison tests. It is also well-known that E90 is a much softer-riding car than the E46.

    Perhaps the whole market segment is getting soft (understatement of the day, considering how far we have come from the days of E30, through E36 to E46 and then now E90, every generation softer than the generation before it; E90 today is heavier than E28 5 series).

    BTW, only if world povety and ignorance could be eliminated by two taps each on the braking pedal and foot brake . . . ;-)
This discussion has been closed.

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