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BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS

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Comments

  • equalizer7equalizer7 Member Posts: 8
    Hi guys
    Theres no doubt that BMW is #1 for performance and if one had to rent a BMW or Lexus, the BMW would win >90%. However, long term reliability cost goes to Toyota/Lexus hands down. I work at a huge firm, over 3000 people (engineers, techs), with plenty of BMWs, Lexus, etc. Those who own Germans cars for more than 5 years mention the cost of repair. Their car may not break down on the freeway, but with 1000 motors, one is bound to fail every other day! (JOKE from 7 series owner)

    I had a 92 Toyota MR2 turbo that was actually pretty reliable, but I was scared of any problems because parts/labor very expensive on that car. Oil pressure light came on, $15 sensor fixed it, but could have been oil pump which would be >$1000 for labor to get to it. BMW likely similar experience.

    BTW, CR loves BMW cars, they just dont recommend them strongly because their readers complain of electrical problems, etc. As far as bias, CR and JDP have low systemic bias. Even if they did have BIAS, why would it favor one car over another? So Toyota bribes CR readers and JDP staff, but the German companies dont?

    I was shocked to see this at Forbes, where BMW and Mercedes MUST advertise: http://www.forbes.com/vehicles/2005/07/05/luxury-cars-vehicles-lifestyle-cx_dl_0705feat.ht- ml
  • g17g17 Member Posts: 45
    I have an '03 C230 sedan. Warranty work includes: replacement instrument cluster, NEW transmission, torque converter, radiator, and several oil sensors, not to mention smaller things like broken windsheild wiper arm etc.....the car needed a NEW transmission at 29K. That is pathetic. Hows that for details?
  • gordonwdgordonwd Member Posts: 337
    The truth is that today's cars, at least in this category, are generally all so good that we are sometimes fooled by things reported in percentages. For example, I've seen statements like "Brand A is twice as reliable as brand B". Then you look at the actual data, and find that brand A has two defects in 1000 vehicles and brand B had four defects. Yes, percentage-wise A has half the defects of B, but in actual numbers we're talking really good results in both cases -- maybe even equal within the limits of statistical significance.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    the car needed a NEW transmission at 29K. That is pathetic

    Sounds like a Honda tranny...
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    I have the comparo right in front of me. Since it is in magazine form, I will just type it up (this is for blue01s4).

    Here is the performance aspect:

    Powertrain: (330i/IS 350)
    performance (20) - 17/20
    engine flexibility (5) - 5/5
    fuel economy (5) - 5/5
    engine NVH (10) - 9/9
    transmission (10) - 9/8
    total (50) - 45/47

    Chassis: (330i/IS 350)
    performance (20) - 19/17
    steering feel (5) - 4/4
    brake feel (5) - 5/5
    handling (10) - 10/9
    ride (10) - 9/7
    total (50) - 47/42

    gotta-have-ite factor (25) - 23/23
    fun to drive (25) - 23/22

    The end result of the whole test: 213/212

    Note: fit and finish (10) - 9/9 "The electrical ticks began shortly after it was delivered. Ours [push-button start] would work only after several exasperated pushes and fiddling... Then the ABS lamp lit. We tried to execute one stop on our high-desert test road and nearly executed a 360 spin at 70 mph... Shortly thereafter several airbag-malfunction warnings lit up... Even with its dash ablaze in emergency alerts, the 330i wormed its way into our hearts." - C&D

    I would consider the BMW if the interior didn't make me want to puke and the reliability was not an issue. But, that's a big IF.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    Sorry, but I have a hard time swallowing this list of "repairs", unless you were in an accident. Look, even Lexus has had their share of intermittent problems. A former co-worker owned an RX300 and had to have a new motor installed to the tune of several thousand dollars - covered under warranty. Yes, even the vaunted Lexus...

    What Lexus did right was handle the problem without hassle for her. She wasn't out of pocket for any costs and the repairs were performed properly. I'm assuming the "$9K" in repairs for your 2003 were under warranty?
  • dl7265dl7265 Member Posts: 1,381
    Since this World Series game is never going to end , ill post some quick impressions of the IS I tested. It was a Crystal White/Cashmere with only 18" wheels as options. The Smart access worked well enough, however the remote is quite larger than my Bimmer remote. The interior is standard Lexus fare, Nice leather, carpets ect...It was a balmy 72F in Dallas and I took a extended drive on familure roads. I quickly made my way to some twisties to get to the meat of the matter. How would the L stack up against my 3er ? EnRoute, I noticed the 6 changer and Audio system would get the edge over my base radio. The I notice the side mirrors WOW were talking Yukon honkers here...

    I was explained that the car had the Electronic steering and did not have any steering fluid. It felt light compaired to my vehicle, thats the best I can describe it. I entered the twisties that require about a 1/2 shuffle steer to maintain your lane. Interestingly enough even with a tire size advantage 17 vs18, and non run flats it began to break away sooner than my 325i would. With the 255/40/18 in rear it was a little unexpected. We cross some railroad tracks and its solid and quiet. Now to the service road for a little excelleration test, smooth and fluid but the almost second 0-60 times dist vantage is felt. A few more turns and we are back.

    I check out the trunk which has a smaller opening and no fold down seat option. But the cubic feet is quoted the same. Now to the back seat which gives up a whopping 4 inches to the 3er.

    I glance over the brochure at home and notice its all about Germany and Nurburgring every page. hmmm

    Id break it down by saying the content per dollar goes to the L, with leather, power seats, homelink,Smart acess, metallic paint, knee airbags and auto dimming mirrors standard.

    But, it gives up excellent steering feel, suspension and a Power disatvantage. And the lack of a usable back seat, storage .

    If tomorrow BMW stopped importing cars to the US , because of RWD and Manual option it would probally get my vote. Both are Very fine automobiles. But in my mind there is still a bit of pursuit going on here :)

    DL
  • texasmerqtexasmerq Member Posts: 86
    Sorry to hear about your problem with your Mercedes. I'm sure it's somewhat uncharacteristic though. My mom has a 1998 C280 and my sister has a 2004 C230. Both cars has been pretty flawless for them outside routine maintenance. The same has to be said for everyone else I know with a Mercedes.I hear stories about people's BMW experience but I don't know how bad it really is all things considered.
  • newcarsnewcars Member Posts: 103
    Not trying to be funny or over-critical but I think we all may be using the terms "performance" and "handling" indiscriminately.

    Performance generally means things like accelerations and how fast the car goes. The more objective or "measurable" things that have more to do with a car's engine and transmission.

    Handling has more to do with how well (and fast) a car takes a turn. And I would also add that it takes more into account with the subjective "feel" of a car. The handling of a car really has more to do with steering, suspension and (to a degree) the ergonomics.

    Having said the above, in comparing the Lexus IS350 and the BMW 330i, I would say that the Lexus wins the former (performance) while the BMW wins the latter (handling). We each may differ on how and how much we value the differences, strengths and weaknesses of the respective cars, but I think most of us (although definitely not all) would characterize the two cars as such.

    And when you think about it, that probably isn't too surprising. Lexus was definitely "aiming" for the BMW 3-series with its IS automobile and it would make perfect sense that they would come closer if not exceed in the more "objective and measurable" areas of performance yet fall short in the more "subjective" areas of handling.

    I personally prefer the Lexus IS350 over the BMW 330i but BMW's do have a certain "magic" with their handling that others (not just Lexus but everyone) have been unsuccessfully trying to duplicate for years.

    And on another note, European Delivery is a great option with BMW that I really am surprised more people don't take advantage of. The cost savings of even a 3-series will more than pay for the cost of the trip. Go to the section on European Delivery on the BMW website (don't know if I'm permitted to link it here) and look it up. You might be pleasantly surprised.
  • g17g17 Member Posts: 45
    I had a hard time with it too!! Anyway the way they explained it was, the radiator failed, the trans cooler behind it didn't get enough air, causing the Trans and torque converter to run hotter than allowed, burning out both. It made sense to me when they explained it. Yep the repairs were covered. MB does fix the problems, no doubt, BUT the problems occur too frequently for me.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    ED (the good kind)…too bad they don’t offer it with the M3. I personally would prefer to spend 48K (44K Invoice) on a “base” M3 than a loaded IS350 or 330i.

    Sunroof – just gets sun in my eyes
    SMG – no need in getting a performance sedan if you go this route
    Power Mirrors, Seats – how many times do I need to adjust these
    Heated seats/power rear shade/parking distance sonar – fluff
    Stereo – Either I have the AC blowing loud, or if it’s not hot I have the windows open, so who can tell the difference.

    Xenons…maybe

    To tell the truth…if all I wanted was “content” the just reviewed Hyundai Azera seems to offer the most for the least (plus 265hp...0-60 6.5 with an auto) for under 30K.
  • sdiver68sdiver68 Member Posts: 125
    I have to disagree to some extent. I thought your definition of handling was spot on. However, to me, performance is not the exclusive domain of acceleration and speed. Rather, how well each car would do if put on a road race track. One disparate example, take a Nissan Altima V6 and a Mazda Miata. I believe the Altima V6 would win the drag race, but the Miata would win on most road race courses. I would consider the Miata to perform better, all around, then the Altima.

    How about another example of similar cars, a 330i Sport versus a G35x. I would argue that for many people in the US, the G35X is the all around better performer. True, the 330 should edge the G35x in the dry, but throw a bit of rain, ice, or snow into the mix and the G35x should leave the 330i "all wet". So, the better performer would be different for someone who lives in SoCal then from someone who lives in upstate NY.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    you can argue about which car wins which catagory (and of course the criteria for "winning" is going to be somewhat subjective). But, as an outsider (I don't currently own either make), both these cars have a lot of each catagory!

    So, IMO, even finishing second in a camparo doesn't exactly make either car a "loser". The world just isn't quite that absolute.

    But, that's why there are so many choices available, so there should be something for everyone (kinda like spouses...)

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • newcarsnewcars Member Posts: 103
    First, I'd like to add "braking" to another characteristic of performance. That is another "objective" characteristic that I would personally qualify under "performance". Having said that:

    You know what, sdiver68, I don't totally disagree with you. However, I think your race course example also brings into question the idea of "handling". I would say that "performance" has to do with how fast you get from point A to point B while "handling" is more about how well you take the twists and turns. Thus, the road race brings in aspects of both.
  • newcarsnewcars Member Posts: 103
    AGREED!
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Comparing a 330 to a G35x is bogus - just as 330xi to G35. Compare a G35 to a 330 or a 330xi to a G35x.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    "However, to me, performance is not the exclusive domain of acceleration and speed. Rather, how well each car would do if put on a road race track."

    This is precisely the "performance/handling" balance that BMW builds cars to achieve. Even such things as loads on the transmission over a lengthy road race will come into the picture as a "performance" attribute. For example, Porsche builds cars that can be purchased and raced the same day right off the lot. Various BMW's can also achieve this better than the majority of their competitors.

    Since we don't live on the race track, we often overlook "unseen" attributes of one car or the other... I just happen to believe BMW excels in the achievement of the overall performance balance issue.
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    "Comparing a 330 to a G35x is bogus - just as 330xi to G35. Compare a G35 to a 330 or a 330xi to a G35x."

    This comparison was designed to show the difference in performance they would exhibit in different circumstances, ie. wet weather, snow. Making a night and day comparison was the point to show how one would fair in snow vs. dry pavement. He might have been better off saying G35x to G35 RWD to avoid this whole situation in the first place, I guess...

    "So, the better performer would be different for someone who lives in SoCal then from someone who lives in upstate NY."

    Exactly. It depends on what your performance criteria is. An F1 car is a high-performance car, but stick it on a rally course and its performance sucks!

    Depends what your needs are.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    also remember that numbers don't tell the whole story. There is also the feel/experience of the drive, and also control (how it works at the limits). On paper, a Camaro Z28 was a killer (fast, good handling numbres), but in the real world, it didn't really work that well.

    Some cars also get pretty hairy at their limits, although those limits might be high.

    IMO, one thing that BMW has usually done well is produce cars thats "feel" good in normal use, and that you could drive at or near the limit with confidence.

    So, in many cases, you might enjoy a car with lower limits (on paper), if you could actually come close to hitting them without giving yourself skidmarks.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    would consider the BMW if the interior didn't make me want to puke and the reliability was not an issue

    Is reliability an issue for the 3 series? That is news to me? I have been researching the stats and I see no reliability issues! Your claim sounds bogus to me! I would really appreciate it if you can back up your claim about BMW3 reliability issues with facts!

    The e90 interior makes you puke? Aren't you that same fellow who was dazzled by the interior of a Toyota Avalon? ;)

    I guess to each his own(some people do love geriatric-type designs)!
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    So Toyota claims 5.3 for the IS 350 in "0 to 60"!

    Welll in this case Reality Bites:

    Refer to the R & T comparisons(Nov/Dec) between the 330, is350 and g35!

    I am using the R&T stats provided by jrock65's post 4741 in the following forum:
    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef0a892

    SPEED (R&T) Comparo

    1) 330i
    2) G35
    3) IS350

    The 330i and G35 were both 6MT.

    0-60, 1/4 mile:

    G35: 5.8s, 14.4s
    IS350: 6.0s, 14.5s
    330i: 6.2s, 14.9s

    60-0:

    G35: 116 ft
    330i: 124 ft
    IS350: 128 ft
  • gbabalukgbabaluk Member Posts: 70
    Hi Dewey;
    Yea, I read the same SPEED article and it seems to hit the nail on the head. I went to the local WInnipeg Lexus dealer this week, when I was taking in my G35 for service. The 2 dealerships are right next door to each other and owned by the same Auto Group. I sat in an I250 and it was small. The sales person kept telling me how fast the Is350 was and he said that G wasn't even close to it!
    The first numbers out from Lexus(C&D,etc) were probably with an early testor that was running a little "richer" than what would be sold. People have to realize that the IS350 has 12;1 compression in the pistons which means 100 Octane fuel to make use of the added compression.
    The Canadian prices are jacked up as well which leaves the G35 a steal here in Canada. The same old pricing that killed the new Acura RL here in Canada.
    Have a great day.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Hi gbabaluk,

    it's nice to finally meet someone who cares about Canadian pricing!

    The worst culprit is Porsche! The Porsche Cayman reflects a US/Cdn $ exchange rate that is around to 45 to 50 percent!

    The Acura RL reflects 40%.

    And most Lexus models are absurdly priced also!

    Among the best companies for Canadian pricing is Honda(including the Acura TL but certainly not the RL)!

    BMW pricing lies somewhere between the extremes of Lexus/Porsche and the more moderate Honda prices(except the RL)!
  • gbabalukgbabaluk Member Posts: 70
    Hi Dewey;
    Right on about the Acura TL! I don't know what happned to Acura on the RL. I expected about $60KCDN pricing for the RL and it came in at about $70K!
    One of my buddies has a Porsche 911 and another has a BMW z3 and I didn't even ask about he price.
    Anyway, I wanted to consider the IS350 but I'll just keep looking and driving my just as fast and better handling G35!
    Have a great day!
  • j0mammaj0mamma Member Posts: 26
    That's an interesting write up... I feel both cars are in the same class but they're completely different cars, you know; the same but different. For bells, whistles, and luxury I would choose the Lexus hands down. For performance, roadfeel, and cornering the BMW hands down. You do put a spin on this whole discussion by taking a lot out of context too. Seems you don't like BMW's, and I've never felt any car's interior would cause me to vomit. As for reliability, I've owned several BMW's circa 1997 and newer and have put over 200,000 miles on them and not once, not a single time did they leave me stranded from a breakdown, or failed to start. No joke. ;)
  • j0mammaj0mamma Member Posts: 26
    Yes, the 325 is a BORING CAR. It's BMW loss leader! It is cheap, by a large margin. It's demographic is 20-25 year olds, and it shows. Have you talked to any new 325 owners? They're freakingly childish. Just go to www.e90post.com and try to compare a lexus with them and they get millitant! Seriously. It's actually rather entertaining to watch the dialog.

    I find it hard to believe that you don't recognize a bmw against the backdrop of japanese designs out there... there is a stark contrast imo. Maybe it's the morphene JK ;) you're on.

    Apparently you're part of the shiny shirt club since you like things that are flashy; heck you might even be blond (JK) - a car might look fun inside, and that's what you're looking for, but I'm looking for a car that performs better than it LOOKS. ; ) ;)
  • j0mammaj0mamma Member Posts: 26
    Shipping cost is included with the price. So is insurance. A lot is included with the ED price. You need to do your research before you knock a post, IMO. ;)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    The demographic of the 325 is quite irrelevant. Most manufacturers want a loss leader that is the flop like the 325. Do you think some of the comments about the acceleration of the 350 is any more mature than what you allude to?
  • j0mammaj0mamma Member Posts: 26
    I'm with you 100%.
    There is Luxury Performance, the measure of how nice a ride is. There is cornering performance, the mesure of how many g's you can pull in the skid pad. Then there is straight line performance. "Performance" is very objective and needs to be "handled" with specific measurements. BMW clearly does the best job of satisfying the visceral aspect of driving and very high marks for luxury at the same time. Lexus does a superb job with pampering you and solid feel, while their performance execution is only good on paper. It's really that simple. At Laguna Seca, the 330i will kick the snot out of a IS350... A trip to Vegas? I would take the Lexus. :shades:
  • j0mammaj0mamma Member Posts: 26
    The demographic of the 325 is quite irrelevant to what?
    Most manufactures want a loss leader that is the flop like the 325?
    ***When did the 325 become a flop?***
    Do I think some of the comments about the acceleration of the 350 is any more mature than what I'm alluding to? I don't know what the heck you're talking about? I was talking about the 325, not the IS 350... you're assume too much. :confuse: :sick:
  • j0mammaj0mamma Member Posts: 26
    I don't think kdshapiro is reading the whole thread before jumping in... I did that when I first joined this forum because the messages aren't grouped together very well... ;)
  • j0mammaj0mamma Member Posts: 26
    Honestly, I can't remember the last time I saw a NEW BMW, MB or Lexus on the side of the road. In fact I haven't seen ANY NEW CARS on the side of the road... This is hogwash!
  • j0mammaj0mamma Member Posts: 26
    Excellent write up. The VDUM, er VDIM or the YAW control takes the YE-HAW out of the car at .80G. Insert YAWN here... LOL! That's why you felt something awry around the twisties; silly huh? With that much meat at the back end something is wrong... they're hiding something ugly that happens at .85g's I'm sure. :shades:
  • j0mammaj0mamma Member Posts: 26
    I agree 100% Another consideration to this performance balance comparison is SAFETY! The better a car performs in all areas of performance handling the better it will be in negotiating and ultimately avoiding an accident...

    The difference between hitting a pedestrian and missing one in an emergency stop is a few inches. :shades:
  • j0mammaj0mamma Member Posts: 26
    NICE! ;)
  • j0mammaj0mamma Member Posts: 26
    Lexus has the least trouble free cars because the drivers aren't giving the Lexus any trouble. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DO SPIRITED DRIVING IN A LEXUS.

    I read this somewhere; give a couch to a frat house and a couch to your grandmother, check on the status of both couches in a year...
  • j0mammaj0mamma Member Posts: 26
    You're Lexus Dumb drunk. :blush:
  • j0mammaj0mamma Member Posts: 26
    A-men!
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Great solo act! ;)
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    It's demographic is 20-25 year olds

    As kdshapiro said, demographics for the 325 is irrelevant!
    But if you insist it is relevant, I am willing to wager that you are incorrect unless you have stats to prove it!

    Have you talked to any new 325 owners? They're freakingly childish

    According to you I have not yet reached my adolescence since I drive a a infantile and dated 99 323i!

    So was buying my 323i an act of childishness?

    Seven years ago I was going to buy a Honda Accord V6 until I test drove a BMW323i and found out it would cost me only a few thousands dollars more than a Accord! So I bought the BMW instead! Does that sound childish to you?

    Also I was in my early 30s when I bought my BMW323. According to your demographic view I was sort of like being the 12 year old student in a grade one class, dont you think?

    One thing I can tell you for certain and that is when I buy a future BMW330 or a BMW5 series my own demographic views on BMW325 drivers will not turn negative!
  • sdiver68sdiver68 Member Posts: 125
    ...now that the SAE has a new "certified" HP methodology, I would like them to take it 1 step further..."certified" AT THE WHEEL HP! They should choose a standard, commonly available rear wheel or all wheel dyno and release the numbers that way, of course corrected for standard conditions. This way, consumers could verify actual usable HP, and the test would be inclusive of efficient driveline design as well as efficient engine design.

    In the world of performance motorcycles, rarely is 1 magazine test done, comparo or otherwise, where they don't strap the bikes onto a dynojet and print the resulting graph in the article. They also often shod them with the same rubber, adjust the suspension for best results, and post lap times.

    I would like to see Road and Track or Car and Driver do the same.
  • sdiver68sdiver68 Member Posts: 125
    "He might have been better off saying G35x to G35 RWD to avoid this whole situation in the first place, I guess... "

    I agree, it was not my intent to start a BMW v Infiniti war with that post, rather I picked the 2 cars I personally feel are performance leaders in this class...the 330i Sport for the dry and the G35x for adverse conditions. Oh no, I just did it again.... :surprise: :blush:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I read the whole thread, theres not much here :). Did I misunderstand your posts?
  • potemkinpotemkin Member Posts: 195
    "You need to do your research..."

    I did my research. Shipping cost is aka Destination charge. It's US$695.00. And yes, it's included in the price -- it always is.

    By the way, perhaps the folks over at e90post.com know when someone is trolling?
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    You mean Point West Auto Park, right beside Assinaboia Downs? You were probably talking to a short, skinny, bald man (we cannot post salesmen's names here on this forum).

    I personally like the G35, but the interior is no where near as nice as the IS in my opinion; the interior smells like plastic and the use of plastic is quite extensive and seems quite flimsy (cabinets for instance); looks like a Nissan IMO, not a luxury car.

    And speaking of reality which dewey seems to have no grip on: The number of 5.3 is not what Lexus claims as an in-house number, but "AMCI-Certified acceleration testing, six-cylinder automatic sedans, Ward's Segmentation". Research the facts, dewey, before you make bold statements of misinformation.

    Dewey, quit twisting the facts; your rhetoric is really, really tiring.

    And btw, the G isn't even close to it. ;)
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    Oh, I know you are not joking. Just last night me and my buddy went cruising in his 323ci, a 1997 I believe. Let me tell you, it is not a really fast car by any means but it is a fun car to drive and corner on. I got to drive his car and I had quite a blast driving it. BMWs are very, very fun to drive, espeically with the top down. He hasn't had any problems with the car.

    Older design BMWs look better than today's. Literally, the car's interior does not make me want to vomit but I find it somewhat tasteless in comparison to the Lexus IS which I find has a very elegant, modern look to it. I will be spending most of the time in the cabin of my car so that is where I want the comfort and style.

    I have heard of way too many people I know that have had problems on their BMWs and even 3 series. In general, I have heard too many problems ocurring on German cars. All Toyota owners I know are happy with their cars, myself included.

    The speed, luxury, technology, and also style suit my needs just fine in the order (most important to least) I like just perfectly in the IS.

    I would never knock anybody for owning a 3-series and if somebody gave one to me I would be one happy camper, but dollar-for-dollar, the IS wins me over simply because it has all the things I want in a car and its reliability is without question in my mind.

    That's life... I like Lexis, some like BMWs (I do too, but not as much). The IS is officially faster than anything else in the class too.

    :)

    Edit:

    As a matter of fact, I think I will go maybe today or Monday to Point West to test drive a 330i and G35.

    Haven't gotten an IS 350 to test-drive yet (none in yet). That will be fun (and will seal the deal)!

    :shades:
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    gbabaluk, are you related to Mark?
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    "Is reliability an issue for the 3 series? That is news to me?"

    - It seems like you are questioning your own logic there! -

    "I have been researching the stats and I see no reliability issues! Your claim sounds bogus to me! I would really appreciate it if you can back up your claim about BMW3 reliability issues with facts!"

    Are you kidding?

    I posted this earlier and is what you initially responded to: Note: fit and finish (10) - 9/9 "The electrical ticks began shortly after it was delivered. Ours [push-button start] would work only after several exasperated pushes and fiddling... Then the ABS lamp lit. We tried to execute one stop on our high-desert test road and nearly executed a 360 spin at 70 mph... Shortly thereafter several airbag-malfunction warnings lit up... Even with its dash ablaze in emergency alerts, the 330i wormed its way into our hearts." - C&D

    Sounds like something I would not like to gamble on...

    I would have the same reservations if this happened to the Lexus.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    posted this earlier and is what you initially responded to: Note: fit and finish (10) - 9/9 "The electrical ticks began shortly after it was delivered. Ours [push-button start] would work only after several exasperated pushes and fiddling... Then the ABS lamp lit. We tried to execute one stop on our high-desert test road and nearly executed a 360 spin at 70 mph... Shortly thereafter several airbag-malfunction warnings lit up... Even with its dash ablaze in emergency alerts, the 330i wormed its way into our hearts." - C&D

    Mike this explains everything! No wonder you are mistaken in believing BMW 3 series are unreliable cars!

    The C & D stats are great in explaining just one single BMW330i! When I referred to reliability I was talking about the BMW 3 series as a group not one particlar 330i that was tested by C&D!

    You do know the difference between anecdotal evidence and statistical evidence, right? The C&D evidence is anecdotal therefore useless! Statistical evidence involves thousands of cars and therefore are useful!

    So I repeat my question : Please show me some real evidence that the BMW 3 series is unrelaible! Hint: the stats are provided by JD Power and Consumers Report and based on those stats the BMW 3 series are not unreliable!
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    "You do know the difference between anecdotal evidence and statistical evidence, right?...

    ... I was referring to the facts of the R&T Speed Comparison dated Nov/Dec! And I repeat those are facts and not twisted facts!"

    Fact is, is that you mention an unofficial time done by a magazine with ad revenue.

    The difference is that you are referring to the R&T acceleration numbers as an official number since the number is a fact. The reason why the magazines post the variables such as atmospheric conditions, road temp, ambient temp, etc. is because those values play an influence in the testing of the cars, as well as how much the cars have been broken in, the driver, etc. In an official test done by a 3rd party candidate, like I stated, the IS 350 got a 0-60 mph time of 5.3 seconds. This is official. Not some magazine, but an official 3rd party that rates all makes of vehicles.

    It is fact that the G35 received a better time, but things would be a little bit different if they were raced side by side, not individually.

    I wonder if you have ever done a scientific experiment in your life!

    Somebody is in denial. The facts are that the IS 350 is simply faster. It has been confirmed...ugh... 5.3 seconds. I am sure you can find a wide variety of times for various cars, but the reality is that once you achieve an official number which is not in question due to the nature of the controlled testing, you let go of the past (some of us) and accept reality!

    Where the twisting comes into play is that you pretend like R&T did this one comparo where it unofficially received a worse time than the G35 and all-of-a-sudden the G35 is faster than the IS 350 all the time?

    If not, then why the hell mention it in the first place!?

    Huh?????
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