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BMW 3-Series Run Flat Tires

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Comments

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "...but getting a RFT for a brand new Model BMW and then being able to find someone with the equipment AND the experience to put it on the special rims they use?"

    BMW uses conventional rims, and as such you can fit either RFTs or GFTs to them with the standard tire mounting equipment and standard tire mounting techniques. No extra training necessary.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    "BMW uses conventional rims, and as such you can fit either RFTs or GFTs to them with the standard tire mounting equipment and standard tire mounting techniques. No extra training necessary."

    Be careful. When my first EL-42 got punctured, the local Goodyear dealer in Orange County, NY damaged the rim when the new tire was mounted. Not all tire shops have the equipment/training to do it right, IMO.

    Regards,
    OW
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Hmmm, I think I'll temper that statement with, "all tire shops have the proper equipment to replace any tire on any factory BMW rim." Errr, then there is the notable exception of the TRX junk from the late 1970s and early 1980s, but that really isn't relevant to this discussion.

    As for training, what I said was "No extra training necessary." What I took for granted here was that the individuals at the tire shops would be sufficiently trained on how to mount a tire on an alloy rim. That should be a given.

    Your comment that said, "Not all tire shops have the equipment/training to do it right, IMO" is of course sad but true, not all tire shops provide sufficient training. :P

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • xeyexeye Member Posts: 168
    Thanks, but the link seems to be invalid. I saw the references on Bimmerpost after searching for B360606g, but those links don't find the article either. Anyone have a .pdf or .doc? Forefox and IE claim the link is not found (www.bmwtis.com)

    http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/bulletins/bulletin_graphic_temp/B360606g.htm

    xeye
  • dkg42dkg42 Member Posts: 11
    I had the dealer replace the RFT and they damaged the rim!. On the bright side, I got the tire for free and I have to bring the car back so they can "repair" the rim. I looks like someone ran a large compass ponint around the face of the rim.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Exactly what happened at "Goodyear" and then the shop owner said it was running the rim flat on the tire that caused the flaking. I got him to change his mind since it took 3 days for him to get the new tire while I ran around on the plugged EL-42. The rim was perfect during the 3 days and low and behold a new tire and then rim damage! (At the time, he charged $250 for the P.O.S. EL-42 with mounting/Balance).

    The interesting thing is that the metal flaked off after I drove the car for a mile or 2 after I picked the car up. The rim cost $285 but "Goodyear" (private-owned shop) got the dealer discount so $225. He replaced it at his cost but I had BMW in Eatontown, NJ change the new rim out. First time shame on you, second time...they charged me another $55 for mounting/balancing. Quite a costly flat and what an experience for someone who started as a tire mechanic at Firestone!!

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The link worked last night but not now. I'll keep checking also.

    Regards,
    OW
  • stevecebustevecebu Member Posts: 493
    As for training, what I said was "No extra training necessary." What I took for granted here was that the individuals at the tire shops would be sufficiently trained on how to mount a tire on an alloy rim. That should be a given.
    Your comment that said, "Not all tire shops have the equipment/training to do it right, IMO" is of course sad but true, not all tire shops provide sufficient training.


    I've had tire places ruin alloy rims before. Most have a disclaimer saying they are not responsible for any damage to alloy rims. So if I see that then I know they can't change the tire but what do you do when you are out in the boonies?
    Hopefully the RFT's will be an option.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    i want my husband to buy regular tires. do you have sports package with the sports suspension?

    Naturally, I had the sport package. And the car performs and rides much better with lighter, more pliant, real tires.
  • xeyexeye Member Posts: 168
    The link is back up. I'm armed now! Printed & bookmarked!
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Excellent! Here's wishing you all the best to get what you want. Keep us posted of your experiences.

    Regards,
    OW
  • xeyexeye Member Posts: 168
    Thank you! You've (all) been a big help. I OWe you, especially you, OW!

    I've sent the link to my sales guy, so he's been put on notice. I'd be surprised if he wasn't already aware. Now it's up to BMW to do the right stuff. I will definitely keep all advised. Stay tuned.

    Happy motoring, and may the speed traps be set up after you're long gone!

    xeye
  • georgei2georgei2 Member Posts: 3
    Hi Everyone:

    My wife has had 3 3X series and I was contemplating a new 328xi acquisition from BMW Peabody MA.

    When I saw the car didn't have a spare, and they claimed Run Time Spare was the new technolgy I got nervous and curious and did my research on the Web.

    Thank you all I found you, and your comments, obviously I will not be pursuing my purchase towards the 328xi. Had I not found this Web page I would have go on and make the same decision you all did.

    I am in high tech sales myself I think the RTS is ahead of its time and the infrastructure to support it its not there yet, this car is for my wife and I just can't feel comfortable without a spare.

    I believe BMW gambled that the 3 series is/was so popular that they took a gamble on this technology.

    Thanks again to all, you sure saved me a lot af aggravation.... good luck on your tire/dealer engagements...

    GI
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "When I saw the car didn't have a spare, and they claimed Run Time Spare was the new technolgy I got nervous and curious and did my research on the Web."

    Ummm, please tell us, what did your Web research tell you about a "Run Time Spare"?

    FWIW, I've been a fan and driver of BMWs for years and I have yet to hear of this new technology that you speak of. I'd love to know before I make the same mistake of buying a 328i. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • georgei2georgei2 Member Posts: 3
    Hi Shipo:

    On paper RTS looks and sounds great...but the reality is different from what you can read from the people on this page who actually have lived thru somne of the issues and experiences of BMW 3 RTS.

    Let me see if I ca summarize what I read:

    -Sound problems with the tires.
    -poor handling,
    -low life cycle just 15K or less miles,
    -no repair buy a new one if damaged,
    -few places can replace such tires
    -special machines and training are necessary , if stuck in the middle of nowwhere you can't find such tires.
    -Problems in dealing with tire manufacturers abd BMW dealers.
    -EXPENSIVE proposition in replacing the tires.

    Maybe I missed my readings but all these factors make me say bye bye to BMW until they solve these problems.

    In my mind from what I read about RTS is NOT worth at all on the benefits against the risks/expenses.

    My wife has had 3 3 series and me 3 7 series
    but this RTS technology is just too much to swallow I just don't see the risk/reward equation.

    I would never feel comfortable in taking a trip even from Boston to New York thinking what would happen if something goes wrong on I84. Imagine if you are in Texas going from Houston to El Paso and the light saying you have 50 miles of life at 50MPH is on....

    I will never subscribe to that, I think again BMW gambled on a technology ahead of its time, RTS and that technology need the US infrastructure to be ready for it (garages, inventory, know how) and today is not there, however I believe 10 years from now everything will be in place.

    On the other hand like us you say 90% of the time you are in a Metropolitan area like Boston area, but why even gamble with that 10% when you decide to go to a remote lake location and should something happen go thru the horror stories you will find on this Web page, without even considering the noise and performace issues.

    In my own opinion, that is a risk I am not willing to take.

    Good luck in your decision, and thanks again for your feedback.

    GI
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Ummm, okay, now I need to give you some more feedback.

    1) There is no such a thing as RTS, period, full stop, the end.
    2) What BMW is using on all 3-Series cars and most (but not all) 5-Series cars is a technology called Run Flat Tires (RFTs for short).
    3) Some of the folks who have opted for a Sport Package version of the cars have complained of a harsher ride but seemingly not all.
    4) There is zero evidence to suggest that the summer performance RFTs that come on SP equipped cars have a shorter lifespan than the similarly sized and endowed GFTs of previous generation BMWs.
    5) The folks who have non-SP equipped cars seem to have universally complained about many aspects of the original Bridgestone All-Season RFTs, that said, Continental RFTs seem to be much better received and the jury is still out on the allegedly revised All-Season Bridgestones.
    6) By all accounts, the All-Season Continental RFTs are good for an easy 30,000 to 40,000 miles, far beyond the 15,000 miles you state.
    7) There is no special training required to mount an RFT on a BMW rim as compared to the training required to mount a GFT on the same rim. Said another way, any place capable of mounting a tire on a BMW rim can mount an RFT on the same rim and NO special machines or training are required.
    8) Contrary to what you may have heard, RFTs can be repaired in the same manner as GFTs, assuming of course you don't drive too far on the tire with the low pressure.
    9) I make the trip between Boston and New York many times per year and I agree with you that I wouldn't want to make that run with only four RFTs between me and a tire problem. That said, if I was to opt for a 3-Series BMW I'd immediately change the tires out for a set of four conventional GFTs and then buy a can of "Spare Tire in a Can" or other flat tire repair aerosol. Should a flat tire occur, I'd use the can and then have the tire either fixed or replaced.
    10) Instead of a 3-Series you might want to consider a 5-Series, that car was designed before BMW started using RFTs and still sports a spare tire well and even a spare tire from the factory.

    As a suggestion, before you decide what risks you are willing to take, you might want to make sure your facts are correct first.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • georgei2georgei2 Member Posts: 3
    Hi Shipo:

    Thanks for your feedback and for correcting me on the RTF nomenclature, but you forgot to address several key issues.

    -BIG price differential of the RTF tires vs normal tires.
    -Change tires to take a trip to NYC? are you for real... this is a 3 series for my wife and I have to change tires before a simple trip.
    -Buy a can of Spare tire in a can before taking a trip or other tire repair areosol...no way

    On paper the benefits of RTF are not worth it, you also conveniently didn't address the noise and performace problems stated on this Web page.

    In any case I have made my mind not to pursue the 328ix so hopefully you will make the best decision for yourself assuming you are a real buyer.

    GI
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    There is a LOT of racket about RFT on the Internet. None of it good either. It's not a product I would personally enjoy defending at this point, given what I've seen. Of course, I do agree that there is both good and mis-information on the subject, but then, welcome to the Internet!

    At best, it seems like this is a technology one has to "nurse" or "accomodate", which is, if you think about it, the very thing RFTs were supposed to avoid. THey are supposed to eliminate worry and hassle, not cause it.

    Visiting Host
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "-BIG price differential of the RTF tires vs normal tire."

    For a 328xi tires in the size of 205/55 R16 are recommended. In that size, conventional All-Season GFTs run between about $90 and $110, the Continental ContiProContact SSR RFTs cost $111. Hmmm, BIG price difference?

    "-Change tires to take a trip to NYC? are you for real... this is a 3 series for my wife and I have to change tires before a simple trip."

    I think you missed my point. What I was suggesting was chucking the RFTs alltogether and replacing them with GFTs for the duration of owning the car. Then when you sell it, or at lease end, put the RFTs back on.

    "-Buy a can of Spare tire in a can before taking a trip or other tire repair areosol...no way"

    Why not? That is standard issue on many high end cars these days (can you say Porsche?). The cans work well and are a hell of a lot easier to use than changing a tire. Your wife might actually appreciate this alternative.

    "On paper the benefits of RTF are not worth it, you also conveniently didn't address the noise and performace problems stated on this Web page."

    Sure I did. Virtually every complaint I've seen regarding the noise has been related to the early Bridgestone All-Season RFTs. I have yet to see any such complaints about the Continental RFTs and the jury is still out on the revised Bridgestones. Regarding the performance, by most accounts these tires perform pretty well, not quite as good as GFTs mind you, but not horrible bad either.

    "...assuming you are a real buyer."

    Nah, I'm just some twelve year old snot nose kid who doesn't have a clue about real cars. :P

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • stevecebustevecebu Member Posts: 493
    Ok I know RFT = Run Flat Tire so does GFT = Go Flat Tire? :D
    Seriously tho, what does it stand for?
    I'd ditch the horrible RFT's and put on regular tires and buy 5 rims but what do you do for a spare and where the heck will you be able to keep it in a 1 or 3 series?
    I know you can use a can but in general the cans can only fix certain things if you lose a sidewall you're walking.
    Also what do you do if the tires in th front are a different size than the back?
    I like the idea of the 135i but hate RFT's.
    Suggestions?
  • dkg42dkg42 Member Posts: 11
    Can you back up this statement?
    "8) Contrary to what you may have heard, RFTs can be repaired in the same manner as GFTs, assuming of course you don't drive too far on the tire with the low pressure.

    BMW and Bridgestone clearly state the opposite position

    ..I had a nail in one of the replacement RFTs after 4500 miles., the orignals were from the defective batch, still had to pay $350 to the dealer as they had more that 10k miles.

    When I found out I was going to have to buy yet another tire due to the nail, I hit the roof. However ,I was luckly as the dealer scored the hell out of the rim replacing the tire..got the dealer to pay for it and they have to repair the damage to the rim.

    I want non-RFT tire and BMW should be forced to provide the spare,rim and jacks for all of us who got ripped off by their stupid experiment starting with the 06 models
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Yes, GFT is Go Flat Tire. You might read back in this discussion to see how some members approach the no-spare issue when replacing the RFTs. Shipo addresses this just a couple of posts ago, and others have discussed it over time. The search feature would help you pinpoint the posts.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Can you back up this statement?
    "8) Contrary to what you may have heard, RFTs can be repaired in the same manner as GFTs, assuming of course you don't drive too far on the tire with the low pressure."


    Check back through this very discussion, there are a number of accounts where folks have had their RFTs repaired.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Ok I know RFT = Run Flat Tire so does GFT = Go Flat Tire?" :D

    I coined the abbreviation a couple of years back and at the time I was using "Gets Flat Tire", however, "Go Flat Tire" works equally well. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    While recent posts of mine might give the casual observer that I am defending BMWs choice to experiment on their customer base with RFTs, nothing could be further from the truth. I am NOT a fan of RFTs in any way shape or form. On the 3-Series, BMW chose to compound that lapse in judgment (IMHO) by not including space for a spare tire. Dumb, and dumb again (IMHO).

    With the above in mind, why would I then write some of the things that I've recently written? Simple, to clarify the actual facts of the situation. So, would I buy a new RFT shod BMW? Possibly. Were I to buy one, would I immediately replace the RFTs with GFTs? In a heartbeat.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • actualsizeactualsize Member Posts: 451
    Shipo

    I agree with most of your 10-point answer. Except this one...

    7) There is no special training required to mount an RFT on a BMW rim as compared to the training required to mount a GFT on the same rim. Said another way, any place capable of mounting a tire on a BMW rim can mount an RFT on the same rim and NO special machines or training are required.

    RFT tire mounting machines (and I'm not talking PAX) are different. Hunter, Coats and all the others sell higher capacity (and more expensive) units designed to deal with the stiffer sidewalls found on RFTs. Because of the popularity of "dubs" and ultra-low profile GFTs, these machines are common in certain geographical areas. But they are by no means EVERYPLACE. Dealers and high-volume stores will be so-equipped, but smaller outfits might not have the right equipment.

    As for the training, there is some, but it is minimal. When I bought my RFT-compatible Hunter, the Hunter representative conducted a 90-minute hands-on training session - most of it dealing with the the subject of RFTs and ultra-low profile tires.

    DE

    Twitter: @Edmunds_Test

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    My point was that most if not every shop that is capable of mounting GFTs on BMW wheels (without tearing them up that is) is also capable of mounting RFTs. I checked and even my local BMW indy shop has the necessary equipment to mount the low profile GFTs and RFTs.

    That said, your point is well taken, if a shop has older/lesser equipment that was designed for mounting rubber on a Tarus, mounting low profile RFTs could be problematic. The question I have then is, "Would you allow that same shop to mount a 255/35 R18 (GFT or RFT) on the rear rim of a 335i SP?"

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think Shipo is right. If the shop is competent and has taken the time to do the right procedure, there's no problem and they don't have to go to college to do an RFT; but like a friend of mine used to say about incompetent shops: "That place could screw up a paperclip".

    So I guess it's less than "special training" but more than base-level tire knowledge, that's required here.
  • actualsizeactualsize Member Posts: 451
    This comment highlights a run-flat reality that most consumers are not aware of:

    On the 3-Series, BMW chose to compound that lapse in judgment (IMHO) by not including space for a spare tire.

    Consumers are drawn to RFTs because of the promise of never ever being stranded in a dangerous neighborhood with a flat tire. Water cooler conversations I've had with other married men at work usually start like this: "I wouldn't want my wife to have to stop by the side of the road..." A very compelling and gut-level point of view.

    Car Manufacturers usually specify RFTs to solve certain design/packaging problems. I've personally talked to product planners for three of the examples below.

    In one case, I was employed by the company and directly involved in the advanced planning meetings. In that discussion actual safety was a "bonus" - not the primary driving factor. All of the negatives that people complain about on this forum were aired-out in that meeting but ultimately ignored because those fears were considered speculative at the time.

    MINI wanted to use a center-exit exhaust design on the Cooper S. Center exit here = no room for a spare tire well.
    VIPER (and other) designers simply didn't make room for a spare.
    SIENNA AWD minivans lost the spare-tire location because of intrusion by the rear propeller shaft. The spare location was already compromised due to the disappearing third-row seat.
    BMW (and just about everyone else) wants to save weight.

    In few cases is the RFT decision made by a manufacturer for the same reasons as their own customers. This point-of-view disconnect is the main reason why so many consumers are unhappy (or become unhappy later on) with their RFTs.

    Even though most of use would warm up to the idea of a RFT vehicle with a spare (or a spare tire location), manufacturers fail to see the point (or reject the point outright) because it doesn't match-up with their own justification for installing RFTs: They need the space for another purpose and they want to save weight. (Saving weight is not to be sneezed at, because if a car can be dropped into a lower EPA weight class, it positively affects the parameters of the emissions and MPG rating tests.)

    Twitter: @Edmunds_Test

  • actualsizeactualsize Member Posts: 451
    That said, your point is well taken, if a shop has older/lesser equipment that was designed for mounting rubber on a Tarus, mounting low profile RFTs could be problematic. The question I have then is, "Would you allow that same shop to mount a 255/35 R18 (GFT or RFT) on the rear rim of a 335i SP?"

    I understand. But you don't always have a choice where you have a flat, do you? I can think of several western US locales where you wouldn't be in the RFT range of a suitable dealer. And the greater RFT discussion ranges far beyond the BMW case this thread covers.

    Twitter: @Edmunds_Test

  • highlandpetehighlandpete Member Posts: 46
    I'll support the issues stated....

    -Sound problems with the tires. YES
    -poor handling, YES
    -low life cycle just 15K or less miles, YES
    -no repair buy a new one if damaged, YES, read comments attached
    -few places can replace such tires YES here in the UK very few approved stations. Exploding rims!!!!
    -special machines and training are necessary , if stuck in the middle of nowwhere you can't find such tires. YES & YES
    -Problems in dealing with tire manufacturers and BMW dealers.DEFINITE YES
    -EXPENSIVE proposition in replacing the tires. YES

    I can add 'evidence' to all the above points as identified here in the UK.

    But on the repair issue... there is total confusion here in the UK from all bodies involved. Start with our Tyre Industry Council!!!!!

    I add 2 example quotes.

    Repairing run-flat tyres

    Run-flat tyres have specially reinforced sidewalls enabling them to perform whilst deflated for a limited distance and speed as already mentioned. In the course of running in a deflated or significantly under inflated condition, the tyre structure is subjected to high stresses and therefore may become weakened and permanently damaged rendering the tyre both unsuitable and unsafe to repair.

    When a standard tyre is run in a deflated condition there are visible signs which indicate that damage to the tyre's structure has occurred. Because of the reinforced sidewall structure of a run-flat tyre these telltale signs are likely to be masked and not visible even if they are present. Even a fully qualified tyre repairer may not be able to detect run flat damage to a tyre. For these reasons alone and in the interests of safety the British Rubber Manufacturers' Association, the body representing the major tyre manufacturing companies, does not recommend repairs to a run flat tyre. The advice from individual manufacturers of run flat tyres may differ however and motorists are advised to check with the tyre company for any different advice.

    Following the announcement last week that ATS Euromaster (ATSE) plans to launch a nationwide run-flat fitting and puncture repair service the company has issued a statement clarifying their position.

    The main point that ATSE clarified is the fact that it is referring to the latest generation of self-supporting run-flat technology tyres manufactured by Bridgestone, Dunlop, Goodyear and Michelin. These, says the company, are “approved for minor repairs, subject to strict criteria.”

    Before any repair can be carried out, the tyre technician must check with the customer how long the tyre has been in a deflated condition. If it has driven over 50 miles, or exceeded 50mph, ATSE says it cannot be repaired.
    Technicians must also verify that the tyre is approved by the manufacturer to be repaired and that the repair is then performed in line with the British Standard for tyre repairs - BSAU 159f. If the tyre fails the thorough pre-repair examinations then it must be replaced.
    What are the minor repairs ATSE is referring to? A typical minor repair would comprise a nail which has pierced the central area of the tread. If the inspection process highlights any more serious damage, including any of the aforementioned abnormalities, then the tyre must be replaced.
    According to an official statement on the subject, ATS Euromaster’s repair policy is “in agreement with both the National Tyre Distributors Association and the British Tyre Manufacturers Association on the positioning of repairing run-flat technology tyres.”
    In an effort to clarify the position for both the trade and consumers the NTDA warned that the repairing of run-flats was a ‘complicated issue’ that needed revisiting by key trade bodies.
    Richard Edy NTDA Director said:-
    “Whilst the Tyre Industry Federation (TIF) has not yet considered this matter, the British Tyre Manufacturers Association (BTMA) have issued a statement on behalf of their members, recommending that repairs are not carried out on run flat tyres except where the history of the tyre is absolutely clear and that the manufacturer condones repairing,” NTDA director, Richard Edy explained.
    He said the view of the NTDA is to comply with this statement. “However, we appreciate the right of any member to decide whether or not to repair a tyre. Of fundamental importance is the detailed inspection of the tyre and clear knowledge of the distance and speed following deflation.
    “Because of the unique construction of all run-flat tyres it is extremely difficult to identify secondary damage caused by running the tyre in the deflated state, therefore extreme caution needs to be taken when considering repairing any run flat unit,” he added.
    In its statement, the NTDA, as a core member of the Tyre Industry Federation, has called on the TIF to give commercial and environmental consideration to this whole subject and provide “more clear workable guidelines for retailers.”
    Repair materieal suppliers have also joined in the debate and the following statement was issued by Apaseal:

    ‘As a leading tyre repair material manufacturer Apaseal repair materials have been subject to exhaustive tests in relation to the repairs to Run Flat tyres, in both the UK and Overseas markets.

    'As a provider of a complete tyre maintenance programme, our aim is to provide the Tyre Technician with the material and training that will enable his customer to maximize the return on his investment in tyres, and provide longevity safely, with minimum effect on the environment.

    'Repairs can be carried out in accordance with British Standards and the Tyre Manufacturer’s recommendation, strictly following the detailed inspection process that is critical if the tyre is to be safely repaired and returned to service.’

    A special edition of the NTDA Technical Bulletin featureing run flat repairs is currently being produced for ciirculation to members next month (February) and the Association is also hosting a meeting of all interested parties to discuss possible revision to the currently British Standard on Tyre Repair BSAU 159.

    That's just a start....

    HighlandPete
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Your point on the decision making process is well taken.

    Even with the extra weight, a space-saver spare would do well to return some of the customer satisfaction lost by this decision. The engineers can do it...the question is will the bean-counters let them.

    Regards,
    OW
  • adethieradethier Member Posts: 16
    Our RFT shredded after 30 miles! talk about a 'safe' technology. 3 hours of waiting and towing. All for what??? save a little weight on the car... to save fuel? (quickly made up by the tow truck diesel bill). If BMW claims they can design the best cars, do it with room for a spare -- challenge your designers a little instead of creating inconveniences for customers.
    We passed on the new 3 series convertible because there is no spare -- actually not even room in the trunk for a donut.

    In all, BMWs are great cars if you plan on driving around town. Forget long trips, forget the great driving adventure.

    BTW, will the new 1-series have a spare?
  • highlandpetehighlandpete Member Posts: 46
    I've read of RFT's in the UK, virtually destroying within a handful of miles after the warning signal sounded.

    How ever good a technology, in its infancy it can be a pain to live with. I prefer options, I would 'pass' on the RFT's until they are really sorted.

    HighlandPete
  • stevecebustevecebu Member Posts: 493
    Yes, GFT is Go Flat Tire. You might read back in this discussion to see how some members approach the no-spare issue when replacing the RFTs. Shipo addresses this just a couple of posts ago, and others have discussed it over time. The search feature would help you pinpoint the posts.

    Ok I will try the search thing it didn't work for me before but maybe it will this time. It'd be nice if someone remembered a message # or something.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Beg to differ but the EL-42 adventure I had was quite equal to the claim of 50 miles. I drove mine for 100 miles with zero pressure @ 65 M.P.H.

    I then got it plugged at the local Goodyear dealer so I could limp along for the 3 days it took to get a replacement.

    I still have the tire which I will keep as a museum piece. It is in excellent shape and I really could have run that thing with the plug, I'm sure...but,alas, I have no backbone for such wagering! :)

    Regards,
    OW
  • stevecebustevecebu Member Posts: 493
    I searched all the messages all the way back to the very beginning.
    From what I see you can buy a Donut tire from some place and you will also need to buy a jack and a lug wrench.
    You have to store these in the trunk and if you need room for anything else and your trunk is small then you are screwed. :sick:
    I'm more interested in the 135i and I don't think a spare tire will fit in that tiny trunk very well plus you have to lash it all down somehow and keep it from banging around. So if you get a small BMW you will lose most of your trunk due to wanting GFT's.
    I can see the topic went on pretty much throughout the entire length of the forum from beginning til now but nothing conclusive other than what I mentioned.
    Am I missing something here or am I spot on?
    I know the areas i will drive can change the flat on a 1970 pickup truck with no problem but a BMW RFT? I bet some places haven't even heard of what it even is, nevermind having the tools to fix it properly.
    So I'm looking for some suggestions or a link to some place that might provide an answer.
    Thanks.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Okay, going back to your original post, I'll respond to the other half that I neglected to respond to earlier.

    I'd ditch the horrible RFT's and put on regular tires and buy 5 rims but what do you do for a spare and where the heck will you be able to keep it in a 1 or 3 series?

    I know you can use a can but in general the cans can only fix certain things if you lose a sidewall you're walking.

    Also what do you do if the tires in th front are a different size than the back?

    I like the idea of the 135i but hate RFT's.

    Suggestions?


    To all of those I'd still answer with the following suggestion:

    http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/conticomfortkit/index.jsp

    Will the above kit allow you to drive when a sidewall has been compromised? Nope. That said, let's look at A) how often side walls are damaged to such an extent that they are incapable of holding air in the tire, and B) what causes such damage and what else gets damaged in the process.

    In the seventy years of combined driving since my wife and I started driving (yeah, yeah, yeah, I know I said I was only twelve, but I was just kidding), we've only managed to damage a sidewall to the point where it wouldn't hold air, once each (one accident avoidance maneuver over a curb and one piece of road junk). Said another way, between the two of us we've driven over a million and a half miles, on roads all over the world, and managed to suffer two flat tire events where the sidewall was damaged.

    As for those two events, in both cases, both tires on one side of the car (right side both times) suffered similar damage and went flat. Yes, both tires, needless to say, the spare tire that was in the car didn't help much.

    With the above in mind, I submit that one would be no worse off or more at risk driving a car with 4 GFTs and the above Continental system than one would be driving a car with five viable GFTs, especially if one of the GFTs was a donut spare.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    actualsize,

    Would you click on my user ID and drop me a private E-Mail? I have a couple of questions to ask you that are off topic for this discussions.

    Thanks. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • idoc2idoc2 Member Posts: 78
    How much weight do you actually save by omitting a compact spare, jack and lug wrench? 30 1bs? Less than 1% of vehicle weight. From a consumer's point not a compelling argument.
  • dan12dan12 Member Posts: 114
    Shipo,

    Can the tire kit be used on RFTs or is it just for GFTs? If I could use the spray on RFTs, I could go much further than 50 or 100 miles in extreme emergencies. That way, the lack of a spare becomes less of a concern even on long trips. Also, I understand that RFT sidewalls are stronger, so maybe they would have less of a chance of getting damaged?

    Despite all the problems raised on this thread, I have still decided to order a 335i with the SP. I didn't like the 328i on a rough highway, but the 335i was very nice and smooth with the RFTs. In fact, I am getting the 335i because it was such a nice and fun ride. I am no race car driver, but if I have to commute to work, I might as well make it fun. Plus, I've always wanted a 3-series and the 335i sounds like the best one ever made. I am planning to drive on the RFTs and replace them after they wear out. I'm hoping for 20k to 30k miles on them over about 2 years. I may opt for GFTs after that, depending on my experience with the RFTs. I know you recommend replacing the RFTs immediately, but I definitely plan to keep the car through at least two sets of tires.

    All this coming from a guy who decided to ignore all the reliability concerns and buy a Jeep 5 years ago. Great car except for, umm, reliability. I hope I don't learn another expensive lesson with this RFT stuff.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Per the link I posted earlier today, the kit can be used for both GFTs and RFTs. Keep us posted on your new 335i. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • stevecebustevecebu Member Posts: 493
    In the seventy years of combined driving since my wife and I started driving (yeah, yeah, yeah, I know I said I was only twelve, but I was just kidding), we've only managed to damage a sidewall to the point where it wouldn't hold air, once each (one accident avoidance maneuver over a curb and one piece of road junk). Said another way, between the two of us we've driven over a million and a half miles, on roads all over the world, and managed to suffer two flat tire events where the sidewall was damaged.

    I'm probably younger than you but I have over 1 million miles under my belt. A few years of driving over 1,000 miles a week really add up. I've also driven all over the world and in many countries and I am in fact now living outside the US right now and driving here.
    The above kit you posted a link to looks good. I have seen similar things in years past but wasn't sure if they could be trusted. I know when you get a flat you can't just drive around for a week with a cheapy repair (unless you live in the Philippines where tires are bald with cords showing and the tire has been patched 8 times at least) :D
    I will look into the system you mention. It looks like a possibility. One question tho. Do you have to replace the RFT rims with new rims or can you use the old rims? I'm not sure if they also need a special machine or if it's just due to the RFT.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Do you have to replace the RFT rims with new rims or can you use the old rims? I'm not sure if they also need a special machine or if it's just due to the RFT."

    No, LOTS of folks have simply had GFTs mounted on their factory rims and stored their RFTs so that they can pawn them off on the next poor sucker who buys the car. :-/

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • stevecebustevecebu Member Posts: 493
    No, LOTS of folks have simply had GFTs mounted on their factory rims and stored their RFTs so that they can pawn them off on the next poor sucker who buys the car. :-/

    I'm sorry to say it but that's probably what I'd do myself.
    But they'd only have a few miles on them in 2-3 years.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I'm sorry to say it but that's probably what I'd do myself.
    But they'd only have a few miles on them in 2-3 years.


    You and me both. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • actualsizeactualsize Member Posts: 451
    How much weight do you actually save by omitting a compact spare, jack and lug wrench? 30 1bs? Less than 1% of vehicle weight. From a consumer's point not a compelling argument.

    From a consumer standpoint, I agree. And your 30 lb net savings estimate is pretty close. And don't forget, some of the savings is lost because each of the 4 RFTs on the car weighs 3 or 4 pounds more than same-sized "normal" tires.

    But having worked in an OE vehicle engineering capacity, I can tell you that every pound is considered important. I've seen individual sample parts rejected because they exceeded the weight target by tenths of pounds.

    While 30 pounds or so might not be much from a consumer POV, its huge from the carmaker's standpoint - especially if that means their MPG certification test results go from, say, 14.448 (which rounds to 14) to 14.503 (which rounds to 15). The implications can be huge - especially if a carmaker is having trouble meeting their mandated CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) target.

    So while you and I wouldn't worry about 50 or 100 pounds one way or the other, car makers fret over fractions of pounds - especially if they think they are close to the break point for a lower EPA weight class.

    Its another example of my general theory of RFT dissatisfaction: At the core, car makers and consumers have different reasons for wanting RFTs.

    Twitter: @Edmunds_Test

  • actualsizeactualsize Member Posts: 451
    Can the tire kit be used on RFTs or is it just for GFTs? If I could use the spray on RFTs, I could go much further than 50 or 100 miles in extreme emergencies.

    If the kit allows you to air-up your RFTs to normal pressure, than they are not "running-flat" and the mileage clock is not ticking.

    But some TPMS sensor designs (more than half) can get fouled by the goo. After using such a kit, a new sensor might be required. $15 or $20 on top of a new tire installation.

    Also, I understand that RFT sidewalls are stronger, so maybe they would have less of a chance of getting damaged?

    Hard to put a number on that. A sharp bit of debris can still slice through. I've heard anecdotal evidence that harder sidewalls lead to a higher incidence of bent rims.

    Twitter: @Edmunds_Test

  • dan12dan12 Member Posts: 114
    I noticed the potential damage to the TPMS sensors too. But if it's only $15 or $20 to fix them, that is not so bad. I wouldn't use the spray unless I was 100+ miles away from home when I had the flat and had nowhere close to get the tire fixed. In that case, I would gladly pay $15 or $20 to get home.

    I guess that still leaves the problem with the damaged sidewall. It sure would be nice to have a spare, just in case. But if I had such a terrible blow out, it is also nice to be on a RFT I presume. In the worst case, can't I get towed to the nearest auto shop and have a doughnut installed until I can get to a place that carries my RFTs?

    As far as the bent rim problem, I noticed that BMW warns that the rims and suspension are more susceptible to damage with the SP. I hope that it still takes quite a bit to cause any damage.
  • bobbi_pbobbi_p Member Posts: 1
    Hello all,

    Glad to peruse all of your valuable insights into BMW's and the RFT issues as they stand in North America. We treated ourselves to a 2006 BMW 320d when we relocated to the UK last year. Compared to all the dogs we test drove (everything from Skodas to Mercedes), I love this car: it's fun, fun, fun as far as handling is concerned.

    Having never driven a BMW before, I thought maybe the bumpy ride was just a European thing I had to get used to (small tires, little cars, raised in my father's Buicks!). However, after reading this and realizing I have the better option (it seems) of tires, the Continental Premium Contact SSR 205/55 R16(91V), I want to ask the experience amongst you what you would do given my replacement options (now at 24,000 miles):

    1. The dealership will only offer me like for like: The Continentals for 115 pounds each (that's over $236/tire for those not up with the current exchange rate vs. $111 at Tirerack.com-God Bless the USA!). I asked if we could have GFT's installed and got the BS line that BMW really recommends installing factory issues, and that GFT's might require new rims and there's no place for a spare. (Is that hollowed out area under the trunk flap not big enough for a donut?)

    2. We have Costco here, and they assure me they're trained to install the RFT's, but they only provide Michelin products and have offered me Michelin Pilot Primacy ZP* for 92.22 pounds each ($189 each). When asking the Costco tech who chatted with me how many miles Michelin is saying these tires will get, he answered quite convincingly that they're too new to tell, but that Michelin had developed them specifically for this car.

    What would you do? I'm thinking you'll all tell me to go for the Michelins to be a guinea pig for you!

    Just FYI: I'm finding that there's no such thing as mileage warranties here or road hazard insurance. Like others have noted, the BMW tire insurance would require you to destroy 2 tires to make it worth while and doesn't cover "normal" wear. On the other hand, I must admit I love zipping around all the mini-roundabouts here and seeing my mileage pegging out at greater than 50 MPG on road trips!
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