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BMW 3-Series Run Flat Tires

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Comments

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Shipo, you probably have 2MM miles under your belt! You got a good GC minivan judging by your use!

    Thanks for your strategy on tires. I was hoping you go for the 328T SP. Will the twin turbo be appealing to you if offered when you are ready?

    I never thought of dropping down to 16's as as a way to save cash. Great idea for the snows. Makes even better sense if you can use them on a second vehicle later on.

    Can you do the same 16 inch on the 5 series?

    Regards,
    OW
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Shipo, you probably have 2MM miles under your belt!"

    I added it up a year ago or so and if I recall correctly, I'm going to cross the one million mile mark sometime later this year. :shades:

    "You got a good GC minivan judging by your use!"

    Our 1998 (a Gen3 van) only has 132K and change on the clock, on a different forum I've run across a couple of individuals that have in excess of 300K on their Gen3 vans and I rode in a Gen3 taxi a couple of years back that was over 400K. Yikes! Needless to say, with those other vans in mind ours is barely broken in. ;-)

    "Will the twin turbo be appealing to you if offered when you are ready?"

    Ohhh, well, depending on how things work out in the future, I could be tempted, sorely tempted. I have a few irons in the fire, and coupled with some of the spy shots of the soon to be "lifted" E60, a 535i might could well be my next new car. In the mean time, there are so many different directions that our future might take, hedging my bets by staying with the DGC or picking up an old 528i is probably the smartest thing I can do.

    "I never thought of dropping down to 16s as as a way to save cash."

    For the E90 325i and 328i, the best wheel tire combination for winter tires (for both performance and cost reasons) are with 16" rims, unfortunatly there are no sixteens made that will fit on either the 330i or the 335i (no clearance for the larger brakes).

    Regarding the 5-Series, the situation is a little muddier. If I recal correctly, the following is the optimal wheel size for the various E39 and E60 5-Series models:

    E39 - 525i - 16" wheels
    E39 - 528i - 16" wheels
    E39 - 530i - 17" wheels*
    E39 - 540i - 17" wheels*
    E60 - 525i - 17" wheels*
    E60 - 528i - 17" wheels**
    E60 - 530i - 17" wheels*
    E60 - 535i - 17" wheels***
    E60 - 545i - 17" wheels
    E60 - 550i - 17" wheels

    * There are actually a few 16" wheels that have proper caliper clearance (different offset and such than the 3-Series).
    ** Speculation here as the 528i isn't out yet, this car will most likely have the same brakes as the 530i.
    *** Speculation again as my guess is that the 535i will have the larger 545i/550i brakes.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • highlandpetehighlandpete Member Posts: 46
    We have the same problem here in the UK for fitting 16" wheels on the 330's. 17" is the minimum. Like my E39 540i 17" is the smallest to fit around the brakes.

    BMW UK don't seem to be admitting there is a RFT problem with the Bridgestone's over here. True it is the Potenza RE050A's that I have problems with, severe 'heel and toe' wear. Awful driving dymanics. I hate 'bump' and 'tug' steer.

    We are not yet supported in the UK for winter RFT's. The RE050 A is a summer tyre, not even all season.

    I've been in contact with Bridgestone and they have opened up dialog. Hope they will further their investigation, even road test my tyres.

    My Goodyear F1's are giving a completely different drive. A 'real' BMW.

    QUESTION: Do any of you guys find that lower ambient temperatures spoil your drive? Not freezing conditions, but a few above, say around 40-45 deg F.

    I'm researching this issue and believe lower temperatures are making for the rougher driving, contributing to the premature wear as well. The static pressure doesn't convert to full working pressures during short journeys and/or in colder ambient temperatures. Add a wet environment and add to the problem, even longer journeys are needed to warm the tyres and achieve working pressure.

    I've conducted some experiments and been recording pressures and tyre warmth, this supports what I'm saying.

    Any experiences or observations to assist/support this thinking?

    HighlandPete
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Pete,

    My experience regarding extreme wear during the 12K miles was about 60% over the temperature range you suggest (mostly highway miles on GSP). That makes about 40% of your target range. I had the tires between Dec. 31 2005 and January 2006 in New Jersey. Our winter last year was above average so I believe the rubber compound on the EL 42 (produced 2005) was a problem despite temperature since even the summer was not that hot in 2006. I noticed the noise, hard ride at about 8-10K miles.

    Put another way, considering a non-extreme temperature range, the uneven wear caused the shoulder 'cupping' that was apparent before 10K miles on a 300 treadwear tire which should provide normal wear for at least 20K miles. My dealer had no problem changing for free on the first request.

    Just me personal observations.

    Regards,
    OW
  • pearlpearl Member Posts: 336
    The first E39's had 15 inch wheels. My 97 528 is shod with 225X60X15 tires. I think they went to 16 inch wheels for the 99 model year.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I did not know that. :blush:

    Thanks for the correction. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • drivinmaddrivinmad Member Posts: 1
    I've browsed through this thread and from the looks of it a couple people have simply patched up their tire, rather than buy a new one (ie small nail/leak). I'm currently in the same situation so I was just wondering if a simple patch work will hold me over for a while. Are there any problems in doing this with the pressure sensors?

    thanks.
  • andrew87andrew87 Member Posts: 9
    At last a bulletin from BMW on Run Flat Tires.

    www.bmwtis.com/tsb/bulletins/bulletin_graphic_temp/B360606g.htm
  • webby1webby1 Member Posts: 209
    Shipo,

    As you know the 335i sedan sport package comes with 225/40-18 front and 255/35-18 back...I am trying to soften the ride but still have the handling.
    Drove the coupe this weekend with 17 inch wheels and conti's run flats all season grand touring tires.
    It felt good....firm but not harsh and great control.....coupe has sport suspension as standard.

    Conti's Grand Touring All season...."Conti Pro Contact" are not available in exact sizes, can I go with 245/40VR18....93V on all four ?

    I am trying to get the same ride ( as the coupe) on the sedan with 18 inch wheels....unfortunately the dealer does not have any vehicles with 18 inch and reg tires.

    Your opinion would be appreciated.

    Thanks and Regards,

    Webby
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Webby, I have the Conti all-season RFT's for around 3K miles and the results are very satisfying. Wear is very even comapred to the Bridgestone's which were original equipment on this '06 330xi.

    Regards,
    OW
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Hmmm, 245/40 VR18s all of the way around? I'm thinking that those would be too wide to fit properly in the front wheel well.

    The two things that I can think of (trade-offs with both) are:
    1) You might want to consider is a set of GFTs in the OEM size. BlueGuyDotCom did this on his 330i SP (same size wheels and tires as your 335i) and was quite pleased with the results. Smoother ride and IMPROVED handling. The drawback(s)? No spare and no Run Flat capabilities. The compromise solution? A can goo that you shoot into the tire to temporarily plug the leak.
    2) The other option is to chuck the OEM rims and go with a set of 17s and either RFTs or GFTs. The taller sidewall will soften the ride (and opting for GFT 17s will soften it further). The drawback(s)? Slightly reduced handling (depends upon the tire sizes). Flat tire recovery same as option #1.

    Were I in your shoes, I might be tempted to buy a cheap set of Kumho ECSTA ASX tires in the OEM size (~$500 for the set) and give them a roll. Let us know what you decide. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • webby1webby1 Member Posts: 209
    OW,

    I assume your '06 330xi has sport suspension and 17 " wheels ?

    Regards,
    Webby
  • webby1webby1 Member Posts: 209
    Thanks Shipo,

    "Hmmm, 245/40 VR18s all of the way around? I'm thinking that those would be too wide to fit properly in the front wheel well."

    BMW dealer thinks that it will fit but will not confirm until mounted.
    My concern is that the wheels are staggered...larger in the back. Same size tire (all 4 )but larger rims at the back...is that an issue ?

    Here is the response from the dealer:

    "The 245/40r18 has an approved rim width of between 8-9.5

    The 225/40r18 are 8.0

    The 255/35r18 are 8.5"
    Regards,
    Webby
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 236,769
    If you want to go with the same size all around.. you need 8.0" wheels with 225/40-18..

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  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Webby,

    Yes. 17 inch all around. There is no sport suspension offered on the xi model. 225/45 front/back.

    Regards,
    OW
  • jbrock22jbrock22 Member Posts: 18
    If interested I have a set of 17" Wheel #161 with 1000 miles
    225/45/17 front, 245/40/17 rear Bridgestone REO50AII RFT for sale. These ride as well as 205/55/16.
  • webby1webby1 Member Posts: 209
    I would be interested in the wheels if they were all one size.
    Regards,
    Webby
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I don't believe the wheel size is the issue (unless you try to rotate the tires by moving the wider wheels to the front), my concern really is that you might have 1) rubber hanging out beyond the fender, a condition that is illegal in some localities, and/or 2) the wider front tires might rub on the inner fender linings when the steering wheel is at either extreme.

    The question I have is, "Why do you want to mount 45 series tires all of the way around?" I seriously doubt that you're going to improve your ride at all if you use tires of the RFT variety, and if you aren't staying with RFTs, I suspect that you'd be better off (from both a ride and handling perspective) by staying with the OEM tire size.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • webby1webby1 Member Posts: 209
    My intention was to stay with Conti's Pro Contact.
    If you were selecting for 18 inch staggered wheels which tire combo would you select?

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=Continental&model=ContiProContact&ti- rePageLocQty=

    Thanks and Regards,

    Webby
  • jbrock22jbrock22 Member Posts: 18
    The wheels are staggered. 8" wide to fit the 225/45/17 front the rear are 8.5" wide to fit 255/40/17's. I'm selling the wheel/tire combo for about the cost of the tires alone.
  • jbrock22jbrock22 Member Posts: 18
    BMW does offer the staggered wheel option on the xi model, its an additional $300.00 on top of the sp option.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    By the looks of it, you are intending on going with All-Season GFTs. Yes, no? In that case, I'd just go ahead and get the same size tires the car came with, just in the GFT flavor. As for the Continentals, personally I'm not much of a fan of them, I'd probably go with Kumhos instead, especially so as there isn't a single appropriately sized 18" Conti Pro for your car.

    FWIW, I just looked up the 245/40 VR18s and they have an outer diameter of 7/10ths of an inch greater than is called for on the 335i.

    I'm afraid I'm not being much help here. Sorry about that.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • webby1webby1 Member Posts: 209
    Thanks Shipo....yes, my intent was to go with GFT but the car that I intend to purchase...335I sedan with sport package comes with staggered 18 inch wheels...8 and 8.5 wide and RFT tires.
    Sorry for not being clear.
    Thanks and Regards,
    Webby,
    P.S. Perhaps I will just delay the purchase for another yr and stay with my perfect 2004 330i !
  • webby1webby1 Member Posts: 209
    "I'm selling the wheel/tire combo for about the cost of the tires alone"

    How much are you asking ?

    Thanks,
    Webby
  • jbrock22jbrock22 Member Posts: 18
    Selling for $1000.00 plus S&H.
  • webby1webby1 Member Posts: 209
    I may be interested....how do I make contact with you ?
  • owner6owner6 Member Posts: 89
    Owner6 RFT Update, (orig mssg # 774)
    its been about 6 weeks and 3,000+ Miles later. The ContiPro RFT are great. Rain, snow, ice, 85 degree Fla weather, Sky Line Drive, PA Tpk, I-95 and its all wonderful, like driving my 2002 330 with more power.
    Good luck to you All.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    One of you needs to make your email address public in your profile so the other can reach you. Then you can go back and mark it private again if you want to.

    What you don't want to do is post out in the open any kind of contact information. :)
  • jbrock22jbrock22 Member Posts: 18
    Webby

    Check my profile, I set up an a new Email address just to discuss this.
  • webby1webby1 Member Posts: 209
    Thank You
  • webby1webby1 Member Posts: 209
    E mail sent
  • kirkrkirkr Member Posts: 17
    Just took my 2006 325xi non-SP in for its first scheduled service at 19,700 miles by BMW dealer. (I change oil every 10,000 and rotate tires every 5,000). Asked them to check the scalloping on the EL42 tires(which in reality was not very bad). They told me all four tires needed to be replaced and would be done free labor and half price for tires. Asked if they would be EL42's again. They said probably Conti's because of backlog on EL42's. Cost is $200.00. Will post final result.

    Kirk
  • kirkrkirkr Member Posts: 17
    The dealership did replace my EL42's with Conti's according to January 2007 Tech Service Bulletin SI B 36 06 06 Wheels and Tires. I, fortunately, have an excellent dealership. I live 100 miles away from dealer. For all warranty work (oil sensor, HVAC problems) they pickup, leave me a Merc or BMW and return the car (washed) when done. All problems fixed to my satisfaction.

    Kirk
  • owner6owner6 Member Posts: 89
    I paid $430.00 4 tires 1/2 price and labor charge. Tires $85.00 each and $90.00 for mount and balance 4 tires.

    What was your price per tire?

    Please let me know.
    Owner6
  • kirkrkirkr Member Posts: 17
    My price was $65.50 per tire for 16" Continentals no charge for mounting and balancing. Total cost $262.00. The bulletin I listed in post #851 spelled out specifically how bad EL42's were to be handled. Hope this helps.

    Kirk
  • dgibson43dgibson43 Member Posts: 1
    I find all of the complaints regarding the Bridgestone runflats very interesting. I took my 2006 330i in for 15K mile service this past weekend with only 13,500 miles. I was advised by the dealer to replace all 4 of my Bridgestone RFT for $1,400.00 US. Dealer said the lifespan for these tires is not more than 12K and it's the only option that will eleviate the loud noise and the car pulling to the left, as if I needed a wheel alignment.

    The noise is so loud that I thought I had a trans or drive train problem, but what do I know? I certainly didn't expect the noise to be tire noise as loud as it is.

    Of course the dealer didn't offer any concessions to me and I told him I would get back to him after I did some research because I didn't want the same tires put back on the car. At times, I must admit, the car feels unstable and can really make me feel nervous even though I've been driving BMWs since 1978 and have never experienced anything like this tire issue. I'm hoping that when I respond to the dealer with all of the complaint knowledge I've gained from everyone who responded on this site, he will offer me the same cost savings and replacement tires (Conti) as many of you have received. My thoughts were that $1400 for tires at 13,500 miles is a bit much since I bought the car May 30, 2005 when the new 3 series made its debut. Not a lot of driving performed to have to replace all 4 tires.

    Thanks for sharing. I have a lot of years and great driving with BMW's 3 series and 5 series cars. I hope BMW doesn't screw things up with this tire issue. They should step up to the plate and recognize the problem to promote excellent customer satisfaction, instead of running away from the problem.

    Thanks to all for sharing your experience.

    dgibson43
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Assuming that you don't have a car with the Sport Package, have your dealer look up TSB SI B 36 06 06 published in January of 2007. If that's the case, BMW will partially offset the cost of new skins for your car.

    That said, if you have a car with the Sport Package, well, the new rubber is all on our nickel.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • owner6owner6 Member Posts: 89
    I checked with the Service manager at my BMW dealer in Rehobeth Beach Delaware. He informed me the 225/45/17 are more expensive then your 205/55/16. he said your dealer "ATE" the labor cost for you.

    Owner6.
  • webdebwebdeb Member Posts: 5
    Hi shipo ...

    I was thinking that today was my lucky day. I was told, about 2 weeks ago, that I need to replace 4 of my tires on my 2006 330i (w/Sport Package) - at a price of $1500. Given that I only have 16K miles, needless to say, I was NOT HAPPY. Then, I found this forum, and another on automotive.com discussing the issues with the RF tires and thought - hey, this is a common issue - and I might not have to pay full price. Then I read your post regarding cars with the sport package.

    Why are Sport Package tires exempt from this "issue"?

    I have Bridgestone Potenza's (front: 225-40 R18 88w rear: 255-35 R18 90w).

    I'm a 40 something single Mom who finally got to drive her dream car and now Im wishing that I never did it because I just cannot afford $1500 per year for tires!!!

    Can you fill me in on the Sport Package comment?

    Thanks,

    Deb
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    16k miles on a performance sedans tires sounds normal to me. Shrug.

    So just get go-flats. 4 tires installed from tirerack.com will run you about $600. I did it last year. 8k miles on my current set and they should hopefully last me at least another 10k.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Hey Deb,

    Before I read your signature I was wondering if you were a Debra or a Debutante. ;-)

    I'm sorry to tell you that your chances of getting any financial remediation for your tires is somewhere between slim and none. :-( Why? As you've correctly surmised from other posts around her, the easy answer is because you have the Sports Package (good choice by the way). The issue here is that SP tires are high performance summer tires that have lots of soft grippy black rubber in the tread area instead of harder (relatively speaking) and longer lasting but less grippy silica based rubber that is used in the tread area of All-Season tires. End result, your tires stick better in the warmer months (say above forty degrees Fahrenheit), however, they wear out much quicker.

    How much quicker? Some here are lucky to get 10,000 miles out of theirs while others are able to squeak out 25,000 to even 30,000 miles. After participating in automotive related forums for nearly a decade, and after having owned a BMW equipped with the SP, I'd give you a SWAG and say that the average individual is probably capable of coaxing 20,000 mile max out of their summer tires (of all makes, models, sizes and types). That said, the summer performance RFTs that your car came with haven't been known for their longevity, and as such, it sounds like you've probably gotten about average mileage out of your tires.

    Please keep in mind that performance packages in general (regardless of manufacturer) use summer performance tires and those tires have a MUCH lower treadwear rating. As an example, the OEM tires on the 330i (non-SP) have a treadwear rating of 300 while your tires are rated at 140, and as such are expected to last less than half as long. Hence the fact that BMW is offering financial remediation for non-SP owners to replace their prematurely worn out tires.

    As I see things regarding your car, you have three main options, each with their own benefits and drawbacks.

    Option 1: Slap a new set of those puppies on there and you're good to go for another year. I just checked and TireRack will sell you a set of RFTs exactly the same as you now have for $1,140 plus taxes and shipping.

    Option 2: Slap a different set of summer performance tires on your car. Unfortunately the Bridgestones that you have are the only RFTs available for your car in the sizes that you have, so this option requires you go get GFTs and a can of spare tire goo in the unlikely event that you suffer a flat. Tires such as the Continental ContiSportContact 3 have a treadwear rating of 280, roughly double of your current tires, and a full set for your car can be had for $838 plus shipping and taxes.

    Option 3: Correct me if I'm wrong, however, it sounds like summer rubber is a bit of overkill for your driving needs. Yes, no? If so, you might want to consider moving to some All-Season tires for your car. Given the general goodness of your car and its suspension, and given how wide the tires are, I seriously doubt that you'd notice the theoretical loss in grip. If you are willing to go this route, you could buy a set of Kumho ECSTA ASX GFTs in the same sizes that you currently have from TireRack for $500 plus shipping and taxes, and these tires sport a treadwear rating of 420. Said another way, these tires cost less than half of your Potenzas, grip nearly as well and last three times as long. What's not to like?

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • webdebwebdeb Member Posts: 5
    Shipo,

    Thank you so much for your prompt response and your, may I say, super-valuable information.

    And no, it's not Debra or Debutante - just plain old Debi!

    I greatly appreciated you listing my options in black and white. That's exactly what I needed! Thank you thank you.

    Well, I reside in Florida so I'm not sure about your comment regarding "Summer rubber". I'm about 14 months into my 3yr lease. Option 2 sounds great but if I can squeak thru the rest of my lease with Option 3 ... even better. What do you think? Or, would those not be a good choice for a Floridian?

    Debi
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Okay, Debi it is. ;-)

    So, you have a lease, that complicates things a bit. Assuming that you leased your car through BMW-FS, it is my understanding that they require the car to be turned back in still wearing RFTs.

    The best scenario for you is if all of your factory tires still have a minimum tread depth of 5mm. If that's the case, yank them now and store them until the end of your lease and then have them remounted. If one or more are less than 5mm, you have no choice but to replace them at some point before your lease end with the expensive Bridgestone rubber. :-(

    Regarding using the Kumho All-Season tires in Florida, no, that won't be a problem at all, those tires are more than a match for Florida heat. ;-)

    With the lease variable thrown in, your best bet would be to replace your current rubber with the Kumhos and run them until the end of your lease (they should go the distance with no problem), and then have the OEM rubber remounted (along with any replacements that are necessary due to tread depth).

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    This is precisely what I'm doing right now. 1 year left on my lease and I might be able to squeak out 1 more year with my Kumhos. Lease turn-in, I'm visiting the big-o to slap my RFTs back on the car.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Yeah, when you first posted that you'd yanked the RFTs in favor of a set of Kumhos, I figured that was what you were doing. Smart move. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • webdebwebdeb Member Posts: 5
    BlueGuyDotCom -

    Thank you! You guys are great!

    I will do exactly the same thing!

    Debi
  • webdebwebdeb Member Posts: 5
    Shipo,

    A million thank you's! That is exactly what I will do.

    What an excellent resource you are.

    How much do I owe you? ;)

    Seriously, thanks so much. I was in desperate need of direction - and you provided just that!

    Have a wonderful day ....

    Debi
  • mathew1mathew1 Member Posts: 42
    Hi Everyone,

    I wanted to report a positive experience. After following this forum, I took my 325xi non-sp to the dealer and asked them to check out excess noise. They prompty replaced all four tires with contis. This was great as they did not create any issues. In addition the service comment was that bridgestones are out of stock. But I get a feeling that dealers are doing that so they can still follow BMW service bulletin in principle but not use the bridgestones due to customer complaints. This is my second new 3 series in a row and was seriously considering walking away from BMWs but this experience will make me look at 3 or 5 the next time I am in the market for a new ride.

    Have not ridden the new tires much but they do sound better (most likely my perception as have not done highway driving yet).

    Thanks to everyone for the valuable information on this forum.

    Mathew
  • tiffanypmcdanitiffanypmcdani Member Posts: 1
    :mad: It felt good to find out that others are experiencing the same issues I am having with my BMW. I have taken my car in numerous times because the tires are constantly loosing pressure and drive very loudly, but have been blown off each time. However, when I took my car in to get the tires rotated yesterday, I was told that every tire was choppy and bad. Obviously a manufacturing problem. After calling and being very upset, I am having all four tires replaced today for half price. Yay. Thank you very much for still making me pay for an issue that is YOUR problem. Oh, but in addition to this I'm still responsible for paying to my my car alligned, since the tire issue has obviously knocked it out. And they admit that Bridgestone KNOWS there is an issue with the tire. So why were they not recalled???? Why is the cost our responsibility???

    I have written in to BMW and I urge everyone to do the same. Maybe they will acknowledge that we are the reason they are here.

    As for my tires, I will have the RF's removed as soon as they are put on today and have other tires put on my car. I plan on saving the RF's until my lease is up. Otherwise I'll be replacing these ridiculously expensive tires several times.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Tiffany,

    If you use the new run flats(Continentals, I presume) you could use up to 15K miles and rotate at about 7K (front to back), you at least will get use out of them and then put new tires on. You can save some money if you go for a set of snows instead if you are in a region where that would be necessary, and work in the RFT's for good weather.

    I just could not bare to see a set of brand new tires go back at lease end!!

    Regards,
    OW
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