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Hyundai Azera vs Toyota Avalon vs Ford Taurus vs Chevrolet Impala

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Comments

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    Actually it was less than 6 years old and the paint job was near perfect and it had no rust. And I know the cavalier would have gotten more mileage if I didn't make one little mistake (don't get service at Pep Boys). I seriously doubt I would have done better with any other car be it a Toyota, Honda or whatever.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Have Azeras hit the street yet? Your question is probably more appropriately placed in our dedicated Azera discussion than in this comparo. Good luck with it.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    while it is certianly possible to keep almost any car for 10 yrs/200000 miles, I would consider that unusual. Anybody out there know what the average/median no. of years folks keep cars? I would guess that leasing has actually reduced that number, despite the fact that the durability of most all cars continues to improve. It wasn't all that long ago that a car with 50000 miles on it was considered worn out.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    I think I remember reading that the average car gets about 9-10 years on it. But that doesn't mean that its all one owner. FWIW I think that the average car gets about 15k miles on it a year, 20k seems high.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • rudikamprudikamp Member Posts: 34
    I have two 1990 Volvos , 740 and 240 and they are in excellent condition . Very low maintenance cost for
    all the mileage , 138,000 and 87,000. But I would not buy any of the new models.
  • littlezlittlez Member Posts: 167
    Based on leasing numbers, 15,000 miles per year seems to be average. If the largest chunk of leases are 36 months and then 48 months, there are a good number of 3 to 4 year leases with anywhere between 45,000 and 60,000 miles on them before they're turned In. But, lately 72 and 84 month financing has taken off. I think it's ludacris, but it does lower the monthly payment. Then again that customer is major upside down when they try to trade in about 3 or 4 years.

    I've heard the average a person keeps their vehicle is around 7 years. A little higher for trucks and a little less for cars. But, I'm not 100% sure.
  • carbratcarbrat Member Posts: 11
    Test drove the Limited last weekend...only one in stock to date-it was really a WOW car to drive - quick, very quiet, very roomy, front seat leg room (left side in particular) is very confortable....back seat room, while slightly less room than Ford 500, is very spacious.....good visability - could use a GPS as an option and an AWD might be helpful...dealer said that fully gussied up (Ultimate Package), it should list at just under $30,000 - no red or maroon color available, sad !...with the increased warranty, it further puts Ford and GM behind the curve - for a 75,000 6 yr extended service plan,my Ford 500 dealer wants another $1,055 making the fully loaded 500 Limited (with GPS)list at about $34,500....I think Azera, even though probably not discounted for awhile while the 500 is, will actually be a little cheaper and it is a better car based on my test drives
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    I'm pretty confident that the Azera will sell (at least) at sticker, but that would be reasonable considering what sticker is! One of the problems with the Avalon is that they are impossible to get without $1800-2400 option packs (from the distributor) - largely worthless options obviously designed to pump the price. A full boat Avalon Ltd. will sticker for right at $40k including all the fluff. The Avalon is the 9th fastest selling car (based on no. of days on the dealer lot) despite this, the 500 moving slowly and heavily discounted. Be interesting to see what Hyundai actually does as demand for the Azera becomes more apparent - wouldn't surprise me to see it selling for more out the door dollars than the 500 - and probably worth it!
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    "for a 75,000 6 yr extended service plan,my Ford 500 dealer wants another $1,055 making the fully loaded 500 Limited (with GPS)list at about $34,500.."

    Using Edmunds for a 2006 Five Hundred AWD LTD with every option (including a rear seat DVD entertainment system and Navigation system), I find that the MSRP is $34,050 with an invoice of $31,064.

    Add in the price for you warranty, and the invoice would be about $32,100

    You should easily be able to get that for X-plan price (or less), which would be about $32,400 or so. If you like to haggle much at all, you could probably get it down to $32,000. And if you are REALLY good at haggling, and can get the dealer in a "moment of weakness", getting it down to $31,000 shouldn't be out of the range of possibility.

    Those prices INCLUDE the extended warranty (at the price you quoted).
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    Correction . . I just noticed the $1,000 rebate going on right now.

    So, subtract another $1,000 from the prices I gave above.

    At any rate, you should be able to get the vehicle at invoice, and the $1,000 rebate would pay for your extended warranty.

    So, I'd say you could relatively easily get the vehicle without TOO much difficulty for $31,000. (after rebate and with extended warranty).

    Personally, I'd throw out the rear-seat DVD system and save another grand, and get it for about $30,000.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    looks like you may need that warranty - the Freestyle, 3.0 Duratec/AWD/CVT, and is actually a 500 in disguise just received that highly coveted black circle from CR.
    Or you could opt for an Azera or Avalon, get a real engine, some reliability, and not have to have your car in the shop too often?
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Easy there, the Five Hundred is the vehicle in question and it rates an Average in reliability. Thats just fine for me, personally. I wonder if the issue with the Freestyle is due to the greater mix that are AWD versions...

    ~alpha
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    " I wonder if the issue with the Freestyle is due to the greater mix that are AWD versions... "

    I'm sure the issue is with Communist Reports. LOL

    The AWD system is by Haldex, and is used in several Volvo vehicles. I wonder what CR has to say about THOSE?
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    HAHAHA

    no.

    ~alpha
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    Is it possible to add the Chrysler 300 and the Buick Lucerne to the discussion and/or rename the thread Full SIZE SEDAN COMPARISON ? I think the LUCERNE and the 300 are competitive with the four cars mentioned in this thread.

    Thanks
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    But we can separate that from this if there are strong objections to including the 300 and Lucerne here.

    The floor is open for a day or so for opinions. ;)
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    just my .02.

    I'd be happy to see this forum include Avalon, Five Hundred/Montego, Charger/300, Impala, Lucerne, and Azera. Heck, we could even throw the Grand Marquis/Crown Vic in there.

    Interesting fact- due to its taxi and police duty the Crown Vic sells 80% to fleets. I didnt realize it was greater than 3/4ths! Guess thats why there seem to be so many more old folks in Grand Marqs...

    ~alpha
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    Interesting fact- due to its taxi and police duty the Crown Vic sells 80% to fleets.

    Thats because only rear wheel drive cars offer the performance and handling that most police want in a pursuit vehicle. And the Crown vic is a decent price for the utility needed for a police car.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Ok thats great. My point wasnt to go off on a tangent as to why the Crown Vic makes a great police vehicle, Im sure it is. It was to show my surprise that so few actually find the hands of individual, next-door-neighbor buyers.

    ~alpha
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    The floor is open for a day or so for opinions.

    Given that I shopped the Freestyle vs. Dodge Magnum and the Five Hundred vs. the Chrysler 300, I'd say including the 300 would be quite reasonable.

    Can't speak to the Lucerne . . is that even a car? ;)
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    LUCERNE is a decent car although not class leading in anyway. I think BUICK built the LUCERNE to compete with the AVALON, 500, AZERA etc so I think it would be fair to include it in the comparo. Since the host allows up to 9 cars to be compared I say the more the cars the better the comparo. I have no problem including the Crown Vic also but that car is completely outclassed by just about all the cars mentioned on this board.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    It's probably already been mentioned, but the 500 has the most rear seat legroom and by far the biggest trunk...since size is the main reason you'd buy any of these cars.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    It's probably already been mentioned, but the 500 has the most rear seat legroom and by far the biggest trunk...since size is the main reason you'd buy any of these cars.

    No doubt, the interior and trunk space of the 500 is impressive. My wife just ordered an 06 500 (company car) to replace her 03 Taurus (has been reliable, but completely outclassed by just about anything). Her options via the company fleet were the 06 Grand Prix, Impala, and 500.

    The Grand Prix is a joke, as far as rear seat room and horrible interior quality, the new Impala looks to be a huge improvement over her previous 01 Impala company car, but it seems to me it lost some rear seat space.

    The decision to go with the 500 was for 2 reasons. Interior space, and the 500 comes standard with ABS, and since only base packages are ordered for any model, she wouldn't have been able to get ABS, which she wanted.

    As for power, the 3.0 Duratech is by far not the greatest engine ever made, but going from a Vulcan 3.0L in her Taurus to the Duratech with CVT in the 500 will be a huge improvement. As for the Impala, I'd expect performance to be similar even though the Chevy 3.5 has a bit more HP and torque. The CVT should help offset some of that advantage. Since she would not be able to get the 3.9 engine. The Chevy does get better mileage, but I don't like the tall gearing they use to get it, and we don't pay for the gas anyway.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    The Azera is the first Hyundai product that I would say beats its similarly equipped Toyota counterpart (Avalon), irrespective of the price.

    (Actually, the 2006 Sonata beats the Camry as well, but the Camry is 5 years old. I expect the 2007 Camry to take it up a notch.)

    But anyway, getting back to the Azera v. Avalon, the Azera has better throttle response, has less body roll, and better exterior styling. The interiors are about equal. The Avalon's main advantages are slightly better mpg and available options such as nav and hid.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    "But anyway, getting back to the Azera v. Avalon, the Azera has better throttle response, has less body roll, and better exterior styling. The interiors are about equal."

    Each of those criterion are HIGHLY subjective, unless you actually measured throttle response, angle of body roll, and interior panel gaps and distraction time (from road focus) while using controls. Indeed, the Avalon has not been dethroned as the benchmark just yet, having won comparison tests in the magazines where it has been tested. Car and Driver in particular, in contrast to your report, noted that the new Avalon (Touring) was fairly athletic, and their tested model was $32K.

    What are the features that an Azera Limited plus Premium Pkg ($29,995) has that an Avalon Touring plus VSC, JBL, Moonroof ($32,295) lacks?

    ~alpha
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    "Each of those criterion are HIGHLY subjective, unless you actually measured throttle response, angle of body roll, and interior panel gaps and distraction time (from road focus) while using controls. Indeed, the Avalon has not been dethroned as the benchmark just yet, having won comparison tests in the magazines where it has been tested."

    Yeah, they are subjective, obviously.

    "Car and Driver in particular, in contrast to your report, noted that the new Avalon (Touring) was fairly athletic, and their tested model was $32K."

    In don't see how this is in contrast to my report. All I said was that the Azera exhibited less body roll.

    "What are the features that an Azera Limited plus Premium Pkg ($29,995) has that an Avalon Touring plus VSC, JBL, Moonroof ($32,295) lacks?"

    I don't know. Isn't the Avalon XLS a better comparison to the fully loaded Azera?

    I'm not sure.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    jrock-
    I actually own an '05 Touring and it is significantly tighter than the other Avalon trims - at the expense, of course, of some road noise and bumps getting thru. Keep in mind the Avalon (as well as its Lexus brothers) has a well deserved reputation for smooth and quiet - almost to the point of being total isolation chambers. The Touring not nearly so isolating, of course, and still well short of what a TL or a Maxima feels and sounds like. From your description it sounds like the Azera is somewhere in between.
    The specs on the Azera look great - but, I wonder, if that $3-4g difference won't get eaten up in poor resale value relative to the Toyota. A unfortunate perception problem, perhaps, but something you have to look at if you are not prone to driving cars until the wheels fall off!
  • dispencer1dispencer1 Member Posts: 489
    I'm sure that the Azera will suffer as far as resale value. Has anyone compared the Impala to the LaCrosse? They look very similar inside and are probably the same body. They are built in the same plant. Of course the Buick styling is typical of everything Buick has built since 1998. When the LaCrosses, Centurys, Parks, and LeSabres were on the lot together it was hard to tell them apart although the dealers raved about the "all new" LaCrosse. Sales I'm sure suffered because it didn't look "all new". It just looked like every other Buick passenger car on the lot. Impala looks a lot fresher, but that's subjective.
  • avianfluavianflu Member Posts: 33
    ...some road noise and bumps getting thru..a well deserved reputation for smooth and quiet -almost to the point of being total isolation chambers...

    Test drove my neighbor's Azera and it is marvelously quiet, courtesy of the triple door seals, well designed mirrors, sound insulation, & thicker windows. My '05 Honda Accord at 70 MPH, roars in comparison.

    Acid test: being able to make a cell call at 70 mph and not having folks on the other end know your in moving car....bring on the isolation chambers and the sensory deprivation. On an airliner, it is the noise and vibration that fatigues, to the same extent with a car on a long trip.
  • averigejoeaverigejoe Member Posts: 559
    Nah.
    It is that recirculated, oxygen deprived airplane air that is the culprit.
    And in the car, if you have more than one person, don't keep it on recirculate forever either.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    It was the quietness and smooth ride that made me choose the Avalon over the TL and G35 - but just couldn't go full bore into the sensory deprivation so I ended up in the Touring. Funny thing about those isolation chambers, some how a car's performance and 'grins quotient' are compromised.
  • buyer777buyer777 Member Posts: 70
    Talk to me about road noise. I'm also considerin TL versus XLS versus Touring. Is the noise present on smooth highway or is this a factor of "poor" pavement?

    A subjective scale of the cars , say 10 for vault like isolationism and 1 for BMW (or similar) sportiness would be great. thanks
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    no question: XLS, Touring, TL in order of increasing road noise and the opposite in terms of sportiness. All 3 three cars will do a good job on smooth highways, it is the rougher and bumpier roads where the differences are most apparent.
  • mayday1mayday1 Member Posts: 2
    I hear about pricing between the Avalon and other cars. The dealerships in Houston virturally demand sticker price and vary very little. Also Gulf States Toyota is the distributor. They add all kinds of JUNK i.e. "lusterizig wax" and glass breakage sensors" that you must buy. I have found the Azera dicounted as low as $27,000 limited with the full Ultimate package. Compare that to the Avalon in any form with the actual walkout price you get from Toyota. To me the Azera is a best buy... and to me Hyundai is the up and comer. They seem to be trying very hard to capture market share. Quality of the product also seems very good. I currently own a 97 V-6 XLE Camry and have owned a 2000 Tacoma xcab 4wheel TRD V6 fully loaded. My camry has been a good car but it has had to have the rack pinion steering replaced, leaks oil, and has electrical problems with the interior lights and accessories. It has 103,000. The leather door panels are coming apart. Where is the quality?? :cry:
  • ricwhitericwhite Member Posts: 292
    I keep reading how well the Azera's quality and price is compared with the Avalon. But isn't the IMPORTANT issue resale value? I mean, what good is buying the Azera if it's worth virtually NOTHING in just a few years? The Avalon has good resale/residual value.

    I REALLY like the Azera and would LOVE to buy it . . . except all of these horror stories about resale/residual value worry me. I hope the Azera will retain value better, but based upon the previous model, the predictions are poor.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    I keep reading how well the Azera's quality and price is compared with the Avalon. But isn't the IMPORTANT issue resale value?

    Not always. To some people resale value is a big thing, that being said I think the whole "poor resale" issue with Hyundai is a bit blown out of proportion. I have a 2000 Elantra and did some research on it and found that a 2000 Civic that had a similar MSRP when new currently has resale value of only about $200 more than the Elantra. Not a big issue as far as I am concerned.

    Secondly many people drive cars for 150-200k or more miles so that pretty much eliminates any issue about differences in resale value.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • ricwhitericwhite Member Posts: 292
    many people drive cars for 150-200k or more miles so that pretty much eliminates any issue about differences in resale value

    Unfortunately, I'm not one of them. I drive about 30,000-60,000 miles (3-6 years of driving) before I either sell or trade in. Since I drive low miles and take care of vehicles, leasing makes sense UNLESS the car I want to lease has a low residual value. It appears that the Azera falls into that category. Most resale indexes list Hyundai as a 1 or 2 on a scale of 5 in resale value. If the vehicle depreciates a lot, I will be paying higher than average lease payments based upon the vehicles new value. In other words, I would get a LOT less car for the money leasing a car that doesn't hold its value.

    If I buy the car instead of leasing it, value is also important if I resell the car in 5-6 years. So, I guess the only benefit buying an Azera is if you plan to drive it into the ground for ten years or so -- that way resale value is really not important. But, personally, I don't think very many people fall into that category.
  • cxccxc Member Posts: 122
    The argument that some cars have a better resale value than Hyundai is based on the assumption that the auto market for next five years will be the same as that for the past five years. Unfortunately, there is a wild card in next five years – China; Toyota, BMW, MB, Honda, Hyundai, VW, GM, Ford, ... all have production lines in China. Chinese will learn how to make excellent cars very quickly through joint ventures. By the time Wal-Mart sells cars made in China, the resale value of today’s cars will be very bad no matter what brands are. For example, we might be able to buy a brand new “copy” of Avalon at a price of 3 – 5 years old Avalon of today. It is better to buy the most car at the least cost today than to bet on the uncertain future.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    If I buy the car instead of leasing it, value is also important if I resell the car in 5-6 years.

    If value is that important to you forget the difference in resale values, at this point in time we cannot say for sure what the Azera will do. But if you buy a fully loaded Azera over a fully loaded Avalon (less the Nav system and laser cruise) and put the nearly $90/month you save in car payments into a bank the $6,000-6,500 (depending how you invest it) you save over the Avalon should more than make up for any difference in resale value.

    Yeah the Avalon will most likely have a higher resale value, but your going to pay for it up front.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • ricwhitericwhite Member Posts: 292
    Yeah the Avalon will most likely have a higher resale value, but your going to pay for it up front.

    I spent some time figuring and refiguring numbers regarding Hyundai Azera, Toyota Avalon, Acura TL and it came out to be a "wash." They are all about the same price. I also ran the numbers with my financial advisor and my CPA relative and they confirm.

    TL and Avalon have higher prices but higher resale. Azera has a lower price and lower resale. In the end, they will all be about the same cost. Same with leasing.

    For example, although the Acura TL costs about $4500 more than the Azera, the lease payments for 36 months at 12,000 miles per year are virtually identical. This is because the TL has a 54% residual value and the Azera has a 44% residual value.

    As far as buying is concerned . . . The Azera is lower priced, but loses its value much more than either a TL or Avalon. Therefore, in the end, the actual amount of money used for the term of ownership is fairly close to the same.

    Even financially close to the same, the Azera holds up well against those other two. However, when I hear the argument that Azera is BETTER because it's cheaper, I have found that NOT TRUE because the Azera will depreciate more and, therefore, lose the savings advantage.
  • alan_salan_s Member Posts: 362
    Don't overrate the Avalon's resale value. My '02 cost 30K when new and the best offer I could get for it after 4 years and 25,000 miles in excellent condition was $13K, even though KBB and Edmunds showed a higher value. Similar with our 02 Sienna.
    If you look at the leasing residuals which are good estimates of a vehicle's potential future value, the 06 Avalon is expected to depreciate a lot more than many other cars in it's price range - more than even an Altima.
    My point is, buy the car you like because a used car is pretty much worthless these days, irrespective of make. My personal opinion - the Azera will hold it's value if it has 4 years of reliable history, and won't be worth much less than an Avalon.
  • averigejoeaverigejoe Member Posts: 559
    The passenger compartment of the TL is only about 98 cubic feet. The Azera and Avalon are significantly bigger. If you need the larger size, check out the Ford 500 and the Mercury Montego. But if my experiences with Fords are valid, you'd better pay for an extended warranty too.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    I spent some time figuring and refiguring numbers regarding Hyundai Azera, Toyota Avalon, Acura TL and it came out to be a "wash." They are all about the same price. I also ran the numbers with my financial advisor and my CPA relative and they confirm.

    I ran the figures between the Azera and the Avalon and it is not a wash. Going by either KBB or NADA values for used Avalons I find that a 6 year old Avalon with 72K miles on it trades in for about 1/3rd of the original MSRP. Now if you buy the Azera and bank the difference in the payments (the avalon is like 4K more) you will most likely have more in the value of the Azera and that bank account then you would in just the Avalon alone. FWIW the Azera has to depreciated to less than 15% of its original cost for the Avalon to be the better deal. FWIW my 5 Year old Elantra with 130k miles on it hasn't depreciated that much per KBB or NADA.

    I have found that NOT TRUE because the Azera will depreciate more and, therefore, lose the savings advantage.

    And you base this on what? There is nothing to base this on since the Azera is a new model.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Very well written comparison test of the Azera, Avalon, and Passat in the newest Motor Trend. They did many very interesting technical tests to measure ride quality and handling, and although the Azera placed 3rd overall, it did quite well, and was the quietest of the bunch.

    ~alpha
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Which sedan placed first, second....?

    My Guess: 1st Passat
    2nd Avalon
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    The Avalon placed first; MT called it the best balance between the Passat's handling prowess and the Azera's supple ride. Plus, they favored its interior. The result might have been different had Toyota not supplied the Touring spec Avalon.

    The Avalon (at 268 horses) and the Passat (at 280 horses) were both quite ahead of the Azera in acceleration (by greater than a half second to 60 for example), but the Azera stopped 5 to 6 feet shorter. They are all pretty darn fast, though, under 7 seconds to 60.

    The tested Azera was $29,995, Avalon $32,074, and the Passat, I believe was north of $36K (the only MSRP I dont recall offhand).

    I havent seen the Avalon lose a comparison test yet- unless there's been one that I've missed? Even in a recent Popular Science comparo, an Avalon XLS, I believe, prevailed.

    ~alpha
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    The Lucerne seems to be better than the Avalon according to these articles.

    Click here
    Click here

    It's off topic so I won't comment on these articles.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Point though, that the reviewer of the post refers to the handling of the Avalon trim lines that are specifically tuned for comfort- while testing the most loaded 38K sport trim Lucerne. How would the Lucerne compare to the Avalon in CXL V8 form, say against an XLS? Or if they're going to take the CXS, then how bout against a loaded Avalon Touring?

    In any case, the Lucerne V8 shows what GM is capable of... an excellent vehicle. That said, unless youve got at least 32-33K, youre saddled to an antique, coarsish pushrod V6 that wont keep up with the likes of the base Azera, Avalon, and even the 3LT, LTZ, etc.. trim lines of the Impala. (Yes, know the MSRP on the CXL V8 is 30K... but go to gmbuypower.com and see how many CXL V8s are option free).

    The main issue I have with the Avalon is Toyotas employing the 5A- which is universally panned for its overall dumpiness. Indeed, the 6A in the new Camry, according to Toyota's own testing, has 50% quicker downshift response, and I've not seen any complaints in the prelim reviews.

    I expect that for either the 2007 MY, or even as a mid model year change for 2006, Toyota will move the Avalon to the 6A, as both the Camry and Avalon are produced in Kentucky. We already know the RX330 will become the RX350 later this year, and move to the same powertrain as the upcoming ES350.....

    Pat, can we make the Lucerne part of this forum, or no? I think it is def. a competitor to the currently named, and I dont think people will take offense to doing so...

    ~alpha
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Pat, can we make the Lucerne part of this forum, or no?
    I think we should, it seems like a good sedan to compare.

    I have no doubt that Toyota will move the 6A to the Avalon. They should, especially since the 07 Camry will have it.
  • averigejoeaverigejoe Member Posts: 559
    Lots of good Buick info here:

    Hyundai Azera vs. Volkswagen Passat vs. Buick LaCrosse

    averigejoe, "Hyundai Azera vs. Volkswagen Passat vs. Buick LaCrosse" #, 19 Nov 2005 11:28 pm

    It says LaCrosse, but there is also some good discussion on the Lucerne.
This discussion has been closed.