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Toyota on the mend?



  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    So where are we going with Finance 101?
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Manson, WAPosts: 7,234
    edited September 2010
    has been said and it all makes no sense at all. It doesn't answer the credibility question. If someone is currently making a payment and they have credit balances, and, follow me carefully here, they are still making their payment, then why not make that person a new loan? It's the person getting the loan that should be nervous, and if they're not, where's the beef? Wussy lenders.

    I'll get a loan for a 2012 Toyota Celica. It won't be very hard, either. All of our cards are being paid down, loans are being paid off, our history is stellar. I still say that morons that took out loans on too much McMansion blow it for all the rest of us that are responsible. If we're ever gonna pull out of this we actually need more people like me that are willing to take on credit, and then methodically pay it off.

    It's all about responsibility and past history. Don't let some bunch of dorks that were wayward fork through potential loan customers for the future. That's just bad for business on both ends.

    I'll find a way. When there's a will there's a way and I will find it. Watch me from afar, car nuts.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    It's the person getting the loan that should be nervous, and if they're not, where's the beef? Wussy lenders.

    Sorry to have to point this out, but you & I don't get to make the rules here. Most lenders subscribe to credit reporting services (Equifax, for example) that use a scoring model (FICO) that penalizes people who carry balances on their credit cards. That's just the way it is.

    Still, you'll be OK if you zero out those cards (always a smart move - why pay credit card interest if you don't have to?) & hook up with a credit union, as explorer wisely suggests.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    So where are we going with Finance 101?

    I guess this shows that economics is not as boring as Toyota cars.

    Though I think some good advice has been laid out for those thinking of buying a new Toyota or any other vehicle.
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    I guess this shows that economics is not as boring as Toyota cars.

    Ain't that the truth! My wife drives (& loves) a Lexus, so I know that the biggest danger associated with a Toyota product isn't SUA - it's falling asleep behind the wheel.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    how does Toyota Financial view credit card debt?

    To be honest I'm not sure. We didn't apply for the card because other cards had more favorable terms. If Toyota offered 3% back towards free service, I'd reconsider.

    The Subaru card is operated by Chase Bank.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Even the tiny 3rd rows ones are a big selling point, though. And they increase resale value. Go to the RWTIV thread; they always ask.

    Edge did improve more, but there was more room for improvement. It could still stand to lose a few pounds.

    Ford and Toyota both are guilty of having too many models in the lineup, so I guess the Edge doesn't need a 3rd row since the Flex and soon the new Explorer will serve that purpose. Not to mention the Escape is close in interior size, so is the Edge even necessary?

    Toyota is guilty here, too. RAV4 is a big compact, so it's nearly the size of the small-for-a-3-row-crossover Highlander, and the Venza overlaps with both. Rumor has it the Matrix will grow to fill the slot beneath the RAV4, too.

    You gotta wonder if these over-filled lineups cost the automakers more than the incremental sales they create. IMHO the Explorer will make the Flex redundant, and the Edge and Escape could really be merged in to one vehicle, too.

    And I'm not sure about Toyota converting the Matrix in to a crossover, either. Let the Highlander grow a little, and keep trucks and unibody crossovers separate. Dump the Matrix and replace it with the Corolla Fielder instead - they would have the small station wagon segment virtually to themselves.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    AN Headline:

    Ford may cut lineup to as few as 20 nameplates, Mulally says
    LONDON (Bloomberg) -- Ford Motor Co. may reduce its product lineup to as few as 20 nameplates, CEO Alan Mulally said today. “There will be less than 30, on our way to 20 to 25,” Mulally said

    I'm not alone in thinking some of these lineups have too many redundancies, though I've been saying it the longest. Drop the Ranger or Sport Trac (both?), Flex, Edge or Escape, what else?

    Toyota should consider doing the same thing.

    Do they need 2 Scion boxes, xD and xB? Just sell one model closer to the original xB and it could fill both those slots. The tC may become redundant when the FT-86 shows up, too, if the price is as low as iluv says.

    Drop the Matrix and sell a Corolla Fielder instead. I don't think you have to federalize a wagon variant separately (do you?).

    Drop the Fj Cruiser and maybe the Venza, too. How many Venzas do they sell? Plus you have to wonder if Venza is just cannibalizing the Highlander and RAV4.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    'Yota leading the league in "Longest Time On Lot" vehicles.

    Not good for the Japanese Champ.

    Camry on lot 238 days (say what?)

    A couple of years ago, small and mid-size sedans flew off sales lots and SUVs gathered dust, amid worries about gas prices.

    Now, data from paints a different picture. Jesse Toprak, True Car's VP of trends and insights, has released a list of 2010 and 2011 models waiting the most and least time on the dealer lots before being sold (click "read more" for lists of top and bottom 10 among 2010s and 2011s at end of post).

    The 2010 with least time on the lot before sale is Chevy's Equinox, followed by corporate cousin, the GMC Terrain. Both are small crossover SUVs great for hauling families and soccer gear -- and available gas-saving 4-cylinder engines. They have stayed around for only about two weeks. But that's better than the 2011 models of these two -- they sit only about a week.

    At the other end of the scale: 2010 Toyota Camrys took an average 238 days to sell, 223 for the hybrid version. And the Camry Hybrid is also the slowest 2011 seller at 73 days.

    Why Toprak says this information is worth money to you:

    "Knowing how long a car has been sitting on the dealership lot is valuable information for new car shoppers," says Toprak. "When a consumer knows what is moving and what isn't, they have more bargaining power."

    Most shocking is the Camry. It's been among the nation's best-selling cars for years. But the current model is aging and Toyota's safety troubles and recalls -- 15 so far this year for Toyota and Lexus -- have taken a toll. "It's another indication that the recall troubles continue to have lingering negative impact on the best seller from Toyota," says Toprak.

    As for SUVs, Toprak says automakers underestimated demand, figuring SUVs were near dead. "They perhaps overcompensated in term of their production cuts," he says. "If you look at fastest-turning inventory, nine out of out (of the 2011s are) some sort of SUV. The love affair for SUVs for consumers is far from over."

    After the two Camrys, the 2010 vehicle that has spent the most time on dealers' lots is the 2010 Hyundai Sonata (209 days), a closeout model replaced this summer by a dramatically different and well-reviewed 2011 model. Then comes 2010 Ford Mustang (202 days). Ford has given its updated 2011 replacement some breakthrough powerplants: a 305 hp. V-6 that gets 31 mpg on the highway and a new 412 hp., 5.0-liter V-8 rated 26 mpg highway.

    Toprak's lists:

    2010 least time till sale (days on lot)

    1. 2010 Chevrolet Equinox (15)
    2. 2010 GMC Terrain (16)
    3. 2010 Toyota 4Runner (18)
    4. 2010 Toyota Highlander (19)
    5. 2010 Nissan Pathfinder (19)
    6. 2010 Toyota FJ Cruiser (21)
    7. 2010 Honda Fit (29)
    8. 2010 Subaru Forester (31)
    9. 2010 Nissan Maxima (33)
    10. (tie) 2010 Nissan Altima Hybrid, 2010 Ford Fusion (36)

    2010 most time till sale (days on lot)

    1. 2010 Toyota Camry (238)
    2. 2010 Toyota Camry Hybrid (223)
    3. 2010 Hyundai Sonata (209)
    4. 2010 Ford Mustang (202)
    5. 2010 Scion xD (197)
    6. 2010 Mazda Tribute (151)
    7. 2010 Subaru Legacy (148)
    8. 2010 Jeep Commander (142)
    9. 2010 Scion xB (135)
    10. 2010 Volkswagen Touareg (113)

    2011 least time till sale (days on lot)

    1. 2011 Honda Accord (6)
    2. 2011 Ford Escape Hybrid (6)
    3. 2011 Ford Edge (7)
    4. 2011 Toyota Tundra CrewMax (7)
    5. 2011 Chevrolet Equinox (7)
    6. 2011 GMC Terrain (8)
    7. 2011 Toyota Sequoia (8)
    8. 2011 Land Rover Range Rover Sport (8)
    9. 2011 Nissan Rogue (9)
    10. 2011 Audi Q7 (9)

    2011 most time till sale (days on lot)

    1. 2011 Toyota Camry Hybrid (73)
    2. 2011 Volvo C70 (69)
    3. 2011 Volvo C30 (63)
    4. 2011 Mercedes-Benz SL550 (61)
    5. 2011 Mitsubishi Eclipse (57)
    6. 2011 Toyota Camry (50)
    7. 2011 Infiniti M37 (43)
    8. 2011 Kia Sorento (40)
    9. 2011 Jaguar XF Premium (42)
    10. 2011 BMW 335D (38)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2010
    Did you notice THREE Toyotas are indeed flying off the lots and in the 2010 top 10? FJ, 4Runner, and Highlander.

    Two make the slow-selling list but really they're the same model anyway. Correction: I didn't notice the Scions, but Camry should count as one not two.

    Not to mention just last week I shared a link as to how NA production was up by some astounding amount. Simple - they built too many Camrys, so it's an over-supply issue.

    Overall you look at the list, and Toyotas are indeed flying off the lots.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587

    Aug 10

    Aug 09

    up 39%

    YTD 10

    YTD 09

    up 65%

    Overall North American output is up 34% for the month of August and up 61%. Good news, and Toyota managed to outpace both those numbers.

    Days' inventory is about supply and demand, supply being up 65% is the key factor.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Who you accusing of bias? ?

    I'm just posting what's in the news.

    Did you notice FOUR 'Yotas in the "slow off the lot list?"

    It's not bias if it's just a list of facts. It was not an opinion piece - it was just a "number of days on the lot" report.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2010
    Edit: to me, IMHO, Camry + Camry Hybrid should count as one model, not two.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2010
    Oh, and if you include 2011, Toyota has FIVE models flying off the lots.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    My post title was just my interpretation of the story.

    These 4 Toyotas, which were in my earlier post:

    2010 most time till sale (days on lot)

    1. 2010 Toyota Camry (238)
    2. 2010 Toyota Camry Hybrid (223)
    3. 2010 Hyundai Sonata (209)
    4. 2010 Ford Mustang (202)
    5. 2010 Scion xD (197)
    6. 2010 Mazda Tribute (151)
    7. 2010 Subaru Legacy (148)
    8. 2010 Jeep Commander (142)
    9. 2010 Scion xB (135)
    10. 2010 Volkswagen Touareg (113)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2010
    OK, I'll give you that, Scion is sort of a subsidiary.

    So what's the score?

    3 slow sellers. Camry, xA, xB.

    5 hot sellers. FJ, 4Runner, Highlander, Tundra, Sequoia.

    And that is after having produced 329,235 more cars in North America than they did last year.

    That is not a bad result!
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Yep, it's not "sky is falling" results. but I'd bet 'Yota is not used to being in the "longest days on lots" in ANY category.

    I'd have to interpret this as 'Yota "not over the hump yet" in recovering from the recall and the bad pub from the related publicity.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2010
    You know what, I think I got angry at the wrong person. You're right.

    I'm sorry.

    I'm just tired of slanted reporting. So sick of it.

    The media is just trying to sell papers. So they'll spin a story any way they can to get more hype and increase sales.

    How they can look at that list and ignore the 5 Toyotas on the hot-sellers list, all high margin models by the way (!), and focus only on the Camry, while ignoring huge increases in production in North America, just set me off.

    The Camry and Scions are low-profit models. The hot 5 are all high-profit high-margin trucks and crossovers.

    I'll switch to de-caf. Promise. ;)
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Hey, no harm, no foul.....:)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I've edited my posts to correct the fact that I overlooked the Scions.

    Sorry, de-caf for me from now on.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 21,496
    >Sorry, de-caf for me from now on. :blush: :shades:

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2010
    Hmm, there are 2 guys walking towards me in white lab coats.

    Is that a Toyota logo on the pocket?

    Hey, wait a sec, WAAAAAAAAiiit.......
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 12,026
    Sure the 3rd row increases the trade in value by $400, but it cost $900 more when new.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 21,496
    > decaf

    Maybe we could add that all that caffeine caused your brain to undergo
    Sudden Unintended Acceleration... ;)

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Manson, WAPosts: 7,234
    Oh, and if you include 2011, Toyota has FIVE models flying off the lots.

    You didn't happen ta mean my little pet 2012 Toyota Celica, did you? :shades:


    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 12,026
    one thing missing from the picture is how many of each total are out there.
    Maybe the the 2010 Camry's are 50 purple ones with green interiors.
    The Toyota 'fast movers' are not high volume models, the Highlander heading up that pack.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • delthekingdeltheking Posts: 1,152
    LFA's sell for 375-400k and they are already sold out !!! :P
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    They're easier to sell with 3 rows. Plus if you have 2 kids and you car pool kids around, like we do, you need it, even for short jaunts.

    Any how, going back to the fact that you don't think the Highlander was changed much - it didn't need to be changed much.

    Did you notice the 2010s are on the short-supply list?

    Why mess with success?

    Like I said, the Edge indeed improved more, but there was more room for improvement.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Highlander may not be high volume, but it's not a slow seller by a long shot. They sell about 7-8,000 per month. And given supply is short, they could be doing better if they had produced more Highlanders and fewer Camrys.

    The Tundra sells about 9000 per month, 4Runner close to 4000.

    Toyota just needs to shuffle the production mix. It's hard to predict the future, and right now gas prices are low, so SUVs are selling more than anyone expected. The short-supply list is dominated by them.

    Hybrids are a tougher sell when gas is $2.50 a gallon. Doomsday forecasts called for $4/gallon gas even long-term, so it looks like just about all manufacturers got the production mix incorrect.

    Oddly, and indirectly, it's Isuzu's fault.




    SIA used to be Subaru-Isuzu Automotive, and they produced the Rodeo on one assembly line, Subarus on the other. At one point the Rodeo was the best-selling import SUV, doing tons of volume and keeping that assembly line quite busy.

    When Isuzu tanked, Subaru took over both assembly lines, building the Tribeca where the Rodeo used to be made. They changed the name to Subaru Indiana Automotive, still SIA.

    The Tribeca was too small and controversially styled to do any volume, so when Toyota purchased part of Subaru, they filled the gap by guessed it...Camry production to SIA's 2nd assembly line.

    So now they have too many Camrys.

    This is why NA production is up so high.

    Irony of all ironies, the Outback is in short supply. Sales of the hot 2010 redesign were up more than 100% compared to its predecessor, and they only caught up recently.

    Toyota/Subaru need to decide what to build there, something with sustainable sales. Perhaps move the next Forester there, currently it's built in Gunma, Japan, and you saw the 30 day or so supply of Foresters is way, way short.

    The article missed the big picture entirely. It was a very poor analysis.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Toyota and Hyundai appear to have a new member in the "steering" club...

    Looks like all the manufacturers are wanting a piece of the action... gates-MINI-Steering-Complaints/
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