Toyota on the mend?

fintail · October 2010

Most 20 somethings I know, especially those who have cut the cord and are living on their own dime, don't seem too concerned with cars or anime culture. I think the older Gen Y non-driver set is in their 20s now. Should be a boon to Corolla and Elantra sales.

Those Japanese customizers are poking fun at a lame movement...more power to them. They do some weird things to relatively handsome 80s era JDM sedans too.

fintail · October 2010

I'll take the energy and inertia of my E55 over 99% of what comes out of Japan, thank you very much :shades:

Maybe Toyota should badge that thing a Celica...among enthusiasts the name might have a little value left.

explorerx4 · October 2010

Is the 'Dark side of the Moon' your favorite album?
Seems like a good fit for you, to me. I like it too.
Don't live it quite as much as you seem to.
You might get that car for 20K plus your 5k down payment.

nippononly · October 2010

In my mind there is no doubt that they will call this car a Celica, which is a good thing methinks. They never should have let the Celica name lapse in 2005. The tC was such a crap substitute.

iluvmysephia1 · October 2010

it's so hard to think in a different way about things isn't it, fellow car nuts? Toyota will name this car Celica, pretty sure about that, nippon, yes.

As for the 2012 Toyota Celica's price, well, let's just wait the 10 months or so from now to see that I'm right on that one, too. It will be for right around $20,995 for that base '12 Celica with 6-speed manual transmission. Some people just have ta learn by waiting, watching and seeing.

And believing baby.

Take me and drive me in a very insistent manner please

I'd be perfectly happy with my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS, but this pup has be captivated. Beautiful design flow, absolutely gorgeous. And doesn't it just exude the very definition of sportiness?

Pop in Foghat's new CD 'Last Train Home' and rock to some real music for a change, America.

lbthedawg · October 2010

Toyota on the mend?

Well they have launched a very well orchestrated smear campaign on Bob Baker Motors. The lemmings and sheep can recite the Toyota script by memory.

Too bad the dozens of customers Toyota has put in the graveyard won't be mending anytime soon.

But all hail Toyota! Live the lie! Until you die!

gagrice · October 2010

I hope you don't go into deep depression when Toyota fails to live up to your expectations. They are on a downhill slide content wise. And a uphill pricing slope. If it is built here in the USA it will not go up as much as the vehicles built in Japan. Look at the price rise on the 2011 Avalon compared to 2010. $4500 increase. Do you think they can build the new whatever they call it and sell it here for $21k. Why would they if they can sell them for $33k in Japan and the EU. Toyota don't like US for what we have done to their reputation. If we were not the largest or used to be largest market they probably would have thumbed their noses and left the country. They hate the fact that the two largest auto markets are the US and China.

Better be saving your money. If you still like it a year from now they will extract your soul, and leave your wallet bare.

stever · October 2010

well orchestrated smear campaign

Toyota has settled with Saylor so there's not much reason to smear the dealer, unless they have some more stuff going on with the NHTSA.

Baker has reason to smear Toyota, probably hoping to sow some seeds of doubt in potential juror's minds if the case ever gets to trial.

In other words, I think it's just business as usual.

gagrice · October 2010

Baker has reason to smear Toyota, probably hoping to sow some seeds of doubt in potential juror's minds if the case ever gets to trial.

I am not a big Bob Baker fan. I do find it troubling that Toyota would dump on one of the first Lexus dealers in the USA. We also do not know for a fact that the wrong mat was marked properly from the manufacturer. And many of US would still like to know why Saylor did not or could not shift into neutral at high speed.

Then the bottom line. How much should a family member be awarded when a non supporting family member is killed? The whole Saylor family was killed. The brother of the wife was not married if memory serves. Who are these family members wanting a big pay day? And is that justice??

fintail · October 2010

Are these things going to have a VIN that starts with J or one that starts with a number? With the strong yen and depreciated dollar, that 20K base price is either not going to happen, or is going to be a very base car...which in a way might be kind of cool for enthusiasts, but might not warm the hearts of mass market shoppers. Of course, as currency markets are random and manipulated, things could change...but you aint gonna get AWD with fancy wheels and a wacky futuristic interior for 20 grand. Funny faces aren't a component of sport to me anyway.

Modern cars don't make me think of dinosaur rock, somehow

gagrice · October 2010

I think the only Toyota car that ever got my juices going was the 2002-03 Toyota Solara coupe. That to me was a clean looking car. Don't know how many they sold. But by the time I got around to thinking about buying a car for my wife they quit making them. It proves they had designers working for them at one time that had some class.

PS
It has to be the one without a spoiler. I hate those things. Look so childish on a car that is designed to go under 120 MPH most of the time.

busiris · October 2010

We also do not know for a fact that the wrong mat was marked properly from the manufacturer.

But we DO KNOW the dealer had been warned by a previous driver of the very same vehicle a few days earlier about the mat's incorrect installation (and the problems caused by that instance) and for whatever reason, did nothing to correct a KNOWN SAFETY ISSUE.

So, from a liability issue, the dealership assumed the liability for the mats, even if they were incorrect, mis-labeled, etc. It knowingly had the mats installed in a the car in a manner not prescribed by the manufacturer.... Unless, of course, you have some evidence to disprove those facts.

And many of US would still like to know why Saylor did not or could not shift into neutral at high speed.

And that, as they say, remains the $64,000 question.

As I have pointed out in several examples before on this very thread, it isn't unheard of for one who is trained to react in certain circumstances to do exactly the opposite of what their training dictates for them to do, thereby creating disasterous results.

Was that the case here? We may never know, but it certainly it is a real possibility. Sometimes, people just panic.

gagrice · October 2010

But we DO KNOW the dealer had been warned by a previous driver of the very same vehicle

I will be most interested to hear his testimony in the case if it gets that far. Something about that is just too convenient for my thinking. Maybe just as we have heard. He has not been in the news since his interview with the sheriff's office. The account does not surprise me. People at the front desk answering the phone rarely have a clue. She could be partially responsible for the deaths of 4 people. Along with who ever was responsible for the wrong floor mat.

fintail · October 2010

That thing is pretty clean design wise ,although a bit of a toaster...but at least it is better looking than the horrible mess that replaced it. But, I somehow just can't get excited over a big non-performance coupe.

I will agree spoilers are lame. Few cars that wear spoilers look better with them than without. To the unwashed they mean sport and performance...as their 4cyl FWD shopping trolley dawdles from their office to the mall to the tract house...livin on the edge!

iluvmysephia1 · October 2010

and keep up with me, fintail! The 2012 Toyota Celica is going to be a RWD car, I am looking only at the 4-door model of that. I want the 6-speed, thereby keeping the price lower than the automatic tranny. Are you starting to get it? Or is there still some dangling participle that's cornfusing you? Your anger over anything Toyota is peculiar, I have decided that the problem with the SUA is for large part the fault of very dumb and/or very lame Americans who are too stupid or too crooked to properly drive the Toyota they've decided to either use as a tool to slice money off of Toyota or they, like the dork who tried the Prius brake thing, are so dishonest and crooked and actually think what they are doing will work. Pathetic. It has become painfully obvious what is going on.

Of course, as currency markets are random and manipulated, things could change...but you aint gonna get AWD with fancy wheels and a wacky futuristic interior for 20 grand. Funny faces aren't a component of sport to me anyway.

Those are weird words for you to say, fin. First of all, if you haven't noticed, Toyota is really good at decontenting. They want to produce a viable vehicle, but Mr. Toyoda doesn't want to lose the 18-24 y/o's who don't have a lot of money.

Bingo! There you have it! The $20,995 2012 Toyota Celica 6-speed base model should come in right around that price. If it is up to, oh, I don't know, $22,995, I will still pursue buying one. But Dale White Motors will need to offer fair market value for my 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS. I'll leave that at that. It is over a year from now that the Celica first hits American Toyota stores.

Check this article's information out.

Journalists all over are buzzing about the announced "low-cost sports car" being hatched by Subaru and Toyota. Each brand will sell its own version with specific styling on a shared rear-wheel-drive platform with a Subaru-sourced horizontally opposed 4-cylinder engine. Subaru has already confirmed U.S. sale for its entry, name to be determined. In an interview with Digg.com conducted in February 2010, Toyota USA President and CEO Jim Lentz confirmed the company's plans to produce an "affordable" sports car for the U.S. market. Lentz cited the Toyota FT-86 Concept shown at the 2009 Tokyo Motor Show as "a joint-venture product between Subaru and Toyota...(that) will be coming to market." Both models are rumored to come in at under $20,000 and likely closer to $17,000 if the dollar/yen exchange rate doesn't go completely haywire.

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2012-toyota-celica.htm

Where are you guys getting hit head-on by the monorail here? fintail-have you rode the monorail lately? And is there ever talk around there of Seattle getting a NHL hockey team? Please be upfront and let me know. I'd love to know about them.

iluvmysephia1 · October 2010

The Basics

Vehicle Type: sporty/performance car

Drivetrain (CG estimates)

Drive wheels: rear

Engine: 2.0- and/or 2.5-liter horizontally opposed 4-cylinder

Horsepower: 170-175

Torque: 170-175 lb-ft

Transmission: 6-speed manual, 6-speed automatic

Dimensions (FT-86 Concept)

Wheelbase: 101.2 inches

Length: 163.8 inches

Width: 69.3 inches

Height: 48.2 inches

Base curb weight (CG estimate): 2,450 pounds

Toyota has stated a targeted base price of $17,000 for the production model based on the FT-86 Concept, but the 2012 Celica will likely cost a bit more.

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2012-toyota-celica3.htm

iluvmysephia1 · October 2010

In right hand drive form

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2012-toyota-celica2.htm

1975 Toyota Celica

I fully expect the 2012 Toyota Celica to provide extreme amounts of value for the money. Fully-completely-good and hot. And fast, and driftable, and fun to drive.

gagrice · October 2010

I am looking only at the 4-door model of that.

I sure hope you are not holding your breath on that one. You are expecting Toyota to offer a RWD 4 door sedan that will compete in the performance market for $21k. If they offer one it would compete against their Lexus IS250. Not to deflate your enthusiasm. That car with 4 doors would be ugly. Photo shop it for yourself as see. Unless they use the goofy doors like the Mazda RX8.

iluvmysephia1 · October 2010

true, they're gonna have to show what the 4-door will look like. They'll nail it. I won't buy it if it doesn't look aesthetically pleasing, silly.

1990-1993 Toyota Celica...finally it starts to somewhat look like the 2012 Celica

6th Generation Toyota Celica (1994-1999)...getting warmer

7th Generation Toyota Celica (2000-2006)

fintail · October 2010

Is there any hint of a 4 door model yet? Any concepts? I thought this thing was going to have Subaru DNA and therefore AWD...I guess that's what I get for assuming

I agree about SUA...there is a huge if not complete driver error issue at play here...I can look at the typical Camry or Prius driver and understand why it happens.

Oh yeah, since that article was posted, the Dollar/Yen relationship has gone haywire. No way this thing will be able to be built in Japan for 20K unless it has 16" steelies, no radio, and Corolla seats. 23K base for any normal level of content is about as low as you'll be able to go unless Toyota sells these as some kind of loss leader.

I haven't been near a monorail since I was a kid, and Seattle stands about as much chance of getting a NHL team as it does having decent traffic controls...they are lucky to get over 2500 to attend a T-Birds game and they have no suitable venue. The taxpayers aren't going to buy yet another toybox for some irresponsible rich [non-permissible content removed].

fintail · October 2010

I loathed those 1990 models when new, but I can tolerate them now, as an example of period design. The others...that's when the Celica really made like the Prelude and chased down the 45 year old secretary crowd.

obyone · October 2010

To meet the $20K pricing toyota could revive the original 18R motor.

Yes I had one of these back in '74. Had to change out the cam lest you wanted burnt valves at no extra charge.

iluvmysephia1 · October 2010

2012 Toyota Celica thought-for-the-weekend is that this base 6-speed Celica is gonna come in at around $23,000. And ya know what? I'm starting ta believe you're right. If you remember, I stated that $22,995 is my upper '12 Toyo Celica purchase price limit. So there ya have it. For now, we all are in agreement that the 2012 base 6-speed Toyota Celica will price in at around $23,000.

Toyota is still cash-rich, right? This is the most captivating thing in new automobiles to hit since I wondered about 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS pricing round about Feb. '07. $18,995 for the manual-trannied '08 Lancer GTS. Not bad. Been a great car, and there's a really good chance that I will keep it and flog it's automatic CVT mercilessly. I can't find a fault with it. That's what I'm talking about.

The automotive world is ripe with great possibilities. As long as you buy Japenese built 4-door sedans built by either Mitsubishi and Toyota. No one else makes any business sense nor do they offer anything fun. Ahh....so that's what it is. The German cars are boring as all get out. Wait, no they're not.

What about V-Dub-L-You? Overpriced and won't hold up very long. Audi? Simply overpriced and not really that cool. BMW? Boring looking. You see where I'm going here?

Now there's another decent carmaker out there-they hail from South Korea. They are the future of automotive enthusiasts. It's either Toyota, Mitsubishi or Kia. Those three will only prosper further, the German cars might as well morph in to money for Seattle NBA basketball stadiums as we await some justice from David Stern and all his evil money-grubbing henchmen to make things right for Seattle sports fans.

They've already screwed over Seahawks fans in Feb. of '06 with their awful calls in Super Bowl 40 between the Seattle Seahawks and the Pittsburgh Stealers. And forever banned that set of referees from ever reffing another Super Bowl. Why would the NFL front office do that?

Set for stompin'

busiris · October 2010

I will be most interested to hear his testimony in the case if it gets that far. Something about that is just too convenient for my thinking. Maybe just as we have heard. He has not been in the news since his interview with the sheriff's office.

I guess I'm not that cynical about folks in general.

Today, we seem so flooded with info on those that try to gain from others' misfortune that we lose site of the many people who are decent folks...not looking for any personal gain and shun the limelight of the media.

Personally, I doubt this thing will ever make it to court. Far too easy for the dealership to lose, especially in front of 12 jurors who can usually be easily influenced in their judgment. My guess...the dealership insurance company will take over and force a settlement. After all, in the end, that's who will be making the decisions in this matter for the plaintiffs.

The account does not surprise me. People at the front desk answering the phone rarely have a clue. She could be partially responsible for the deaths of 4 people. Along with who ever was responsible for the wrong floor mat.

Oh, I quite agree. And, I'm not sure how this issue can be fixed. A company employing a thousand excellent and caring employess can be destroyed by the ineptness of a single careless associate.

fintail · October 2010

My brother has an old Toyota pickup with a 22R...keeps going and going and going...

fintail · October 2010

I can believe 23K, although the spec sheet won't be remarkable.

Some of us don't yearn for a Japanese or Korean sedan. They usually define "boring" styling and very few of have ever had what anyone could call a balanced suspension. This is where the Germans continue to rule the roost.

Which Kia is for car enthusiasts? I must have missed that model :shades:

gagrice · October 2010

I don't think the US market get the good Japanese sedans. They send US a toned down version of the Mitsu Evo and Subaru WRX. The UK version of the Evo puts out 400 HP with 0-62 times of 3.8 seconds. I think the best one they sell in the USA is under 300 HP. And it still tops $42k before TTL. The FQ-400 sold in the UK would probably be $50k+ here.

My point being is you get what you pay for in most vehicles. If a top EVO is $40k here in the USA, trying to make a competitive sedan for $22k or even $32k is just not in the cards. Corners will be cut in the drive train and suspension. As well as interior. Safety features will have to be kept to pass inspection.

tlong · October 2010

Iluv, you'd better be careful. You're starting to come across like a foreign car-version of Rocky!

:surprise:

jimbres · October 2010

BMW? Boring looking. You see where I'm going here?

What I've seen for a long time is someone who can change his mind in a nanosecond if he sees a pretty face.

Someday you'll spend some time - an hour should do nicely - behind the wheel of a BMW or an Audi. Then you'll fill Edmunds with posts proclaiming "GERMAN CARS RULE!". There'll be no shutting you up. I'm certain of it.

You won't be able to help yourself. That's just the kind of guy you are.

xlu · October 2010

As long as you buy Japenese built 4-door sedans built by either Mitsubishi and Toyota. No one else makes any business sense nor do they offer anything fun.

There's a Chinese saying called "the frog on the bottom of a well": a frog lives at the bottom of a well; the small round sky over the top of the well is what all it can see and it believes that's the whole sky.

iluvmysephia1 · October 2010

that's not correct, xlu. I see what I have studied, and what I have studied is that the best bargains and also the most exciting cars, are fully completely Japanese. In that I mean that Mitsubishi and Toyota make the best cars out there for fun and relaxation and...sportiness. Here's two examples.

2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

I'd be a dern fool to trade this car in. It rides like a champ. Handles like a champ. Gets 32mpg on the highway and 25mpg in the city of Elko, NV. Always starts right up, accelerates without a glitch, stops on a dime and looks fantastic. BTW-it is my humbly-held belief that the Lancer GTS from 2008 and on and the '65 Ford Mustang are the best bodystyles in the history of motorcars. Because I believe that is truth, fellow car nuts, it is truth.

Gorgeous hindquarters, huh?

Then along comes this megamonster from Japan, only it's not Gamara, it's the 2012 Toyota Celica! This car may be my favorite bodystyle ever, though I haven't decided on that call just yet. Give me time. Like fine wine, quality takes time to develop.

xlu, you have it wrong, my fellow car nutopian. I see what is the best. The Germans fall pitifully short, try as they might and try as they may. The South Koreans, mostly Kia Motors, are really right there right now as a new world order leading car manufacturer, and they top that Hostess-O off with a generous Long-Haul Warranty. If I could find a fault with buying a new world order Toyota right now it might be that they have crappy Warranties. But if the 2012 base model 6-speed manual transmissioned Toyota Celica does indeed come in at about $20,995, I'll forgive them in a heartbeat. This car changes everything.

fintail · October 2010

Please give me a list of Kia cars that have any enthusiast appeal. You do realize "new world order" is usually used as a slur, right?

People continue to aspire to German cars more than those from anywhere else, and with what I can see for future models, that's not going to change.

jimbres · October 2010

In that I mean that Mitsubishi and Toyota make the best cars out there for fun and relaxation and...sportiness.

I've rented the Galant on a couple of occasions. It is, without a doubt, the most forgettable car on the market. An hour after you've driven it, you can't remember anything about it.

I hope that your Lancer doesn't have that rear wing. Nothing says "I'm 43 years old & still living with Mom" quite like a spoiler on a 4-door sedan.

ateixeira · October 2010

I do find it troubling that Toyota would dump on one of the first Lexus dealers in the USA

I think Steve's point was that it was the other way around - Bob Barker is dumping on Toyota, deflecting the blame.

Toyota already settled the case. They're no longer liable.

Bob Barker Lexus still is.

ateixeira · October 2010

A company employing a thousand excellent and caring employess can be destroyed by the ineptness of a single careless associate

Truer words have never been spoken.

fezo · October 2010

Nothing says "I'm 43 years old & still living with Mom" quite like a spoiler on a 4-door sedan.

Post of the day!

ateixeira · October 2010

Some of us don't yearn for a Japanese or Korean sedan. They usually define "boring" styling and very few of have ever had what anyone could call a balanced suspension. This is where the Germans continue to rule the roost.

Well let's be fair, when they've taken risks, you haven't liked those either. You're hard to please.

You don't like Hyundai's fluidic sculpture, OK, but sales of the Sonata cracked the top 10 so you may have a minority opinion on that one.

Plus - BMW has taken a ton of kicks during the Bangle era. Bangle even became a verb - "that design is all Bangled up" (ugly).

Audis were clean for a long time, but they recently got the LED bling disease, so now they all look like Drag Queens wearing glow in the dark sunglasses. Seriously.

Mercedes? Not bad, but I think they peaked in the past, and current designs don't really set hearts aflutter.

As for the "balanced suspension" part of the argument, let's just say that's a lot easier when you're selling compact sedans for $40 grand, vs. less than half that much.

Name a balanced German car for $20 grand, which buys you a very competent Kia Optima with Direct Injection, 200hp, and 35mpg. Does a base Jetta have any more balance? They just went back to torsion beams and 115hp 2.slow motors to cut costs.

Heck, I'd argue that the Hyundai Genesis does better at mimicking German luxury than a base Jetta does at mimicking Asian value.

I'll go one step further - the EVO and STI are much better at performance than that same Jetta is at delivering value.

Am I wrong?

Which Kia is for car enthusiasts? I must have missed that model

What timing:

Rumormill: Kia considering Mazda MX-5 Miata competitor?

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/04/rumormill-kia-considering-mazda-mx-5-miata-co- mpetitor/

Notice something very un-German about it? Yep...affordability.

Give them time - Kia will get there.

fintail · October 2010

Sonata sales...it's pretty much the Rentnata now...meh How risky was it to copy the CLS anyway?

You know I won't defend Bangle concoctions or Audi's LED embrace. I think a lot of Euro design peaked in the 80s and 90s - but it still beats much of the rest.

I didn't know price was part of the discussion. I see most new cars as made for suckers anyway. I can get a hell of a nice used Euro for the price of a nicely equipped new Sonata or Camcord. I can get a nice 07 S-class for just a few grand more than the MSRP on a Genesis 4.6. Which would I choose?

Jetta doesn't exist to mimic Asian value, it exists as a cheap way into the idea of having a European sedan. EVO and STi are performance machines...and pretty much not everyday cars for it. A coworker has an 08 STi...loves it, but prefers to commute in a 17 year old Legacy.

I've seen Kia concepts before. I'll believe it when I see it on my street. As it is now, Kia makes Hyundai look like BMW.

Hyundai won't do too much with Kia so long as it is still trying to develop its own brand equity and identity.

ateixeira · October 2010

You keep saying it's fleet sales but I see 7,853 Sonatas on the road every day and none are rentals.

Time for you to face the obvious: the Sonata is a certified hit! Hyundai sales were up 44% last month.

I didn't know price was part of the discussion

Shouldn't it be?

You can talk about cars people aspire to, OK, fine, I'll stick to cars people actually can afford to buy.

Who aspires to own a used car? So, you can have your dream - if you wait 5 years?

Back to topic: Toyota sales were up 17% last month. GM gained 11%, Ford up 40%, Chrysler an amazing 61%, but keep in mind how poor they were doing a year ago.

fintail · October 2010

Half of them I see are rentals, or private owners who remove the license plate frames and put barcodes in the windows. Kind of an odd look to try for. To be fair, there are now a ton of Camry rentals in my area too, mostly SE models. Heck, yesterday I drove by the little Budget office where I have rented from before, and what was parked in front? A Sonata sans license plate frame.

Sonata is no doubt a success, but comparing sales over last year is as misleading as a similar comparison for Chrysler. Few people were lining up to buy the old lame duck model, and they were selling it at ridiculous discounts and even putting loaded V6 models in local fleets.

I certainly wouldn't mind owning many new high end cars in a few years. Let someone else eat the depreciation. I get to have my cake and eat it too. The cars people can afford aren't always what they really want, that was the context long ago when someone was harping about the Germans losing desirability. It's not happening.

I like to hope Chrysler isn't dead. They do seem to be trying a little more lately. If I was looking for a big heavy SUV, that new Cherokee would be on my list to sample.

gagrice · October 2010

Actually Ford sales are up for the month by 46.3%. They have also passed Toyota for the year to date.
Ford total sales = 1,439,213
Toyota total sales = 1,311,316
Not sure if Ford has passed GM for the year to date. Probably not. Number 2 ain't bad.

http://media.ford.com/images/10031/Sept10sales.pdf

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/document/September_PR_Sales_Chart.pdf

If I am reading the charts correctly Kia has outsold both Mazda and Subaru with 268k year to date. Making it a player for sure.

iluvmysephia1 · October 2010

you really speak with forked tongue regarding dull and unappealing German-built cars. Did I mention overpriced in regards to German cars, too? Well, I will then. They're pretty overpriced. And wait a while-while we still wait for V-Dub-L-You to produce a car that lasts more than 1 and a half years without suffering electrical gremlins. Mr. Yukko! Poisonous cars for the Eurpoean masses and the unwise Western masses. That's all they are. They have you duped.

2011 Kia Sportage

Now that's a South Korean SUV, penned by none other than Mr. Peter Schreyer, the Chief Designer Kia wooed away from none other than Germany's Audi Motors. Lovely new SUV, rocks the house big and so very large.

All the goodness comes from Asia now, it's plainly clear, that's my final decision.

gagrice · October 2010

C'mon Iluv. I would be embarrassed to drive that SUV. It looks like something out of a kid's Saturday cartoon. Clearly the styling in SUVs is all USA. Ford and GM have all the Asian SUVs looking ugly.

The Chevy Equinox is 13" longer. It will out pull, out haul and out run anything in that class from Toyota, Hyundai or Kia. And gets 32 MPG on the highway, which leaves the KIA along side the road 200 miles back. And what good is the warranty when they only give you 5 years on rust. For me it would be a big red pile long before I hit the 10 year mark on the drive train. If you want the best for your buck look no further than GM and Ford. If you want superb handling and performance go German. What the Asians send to the USA is pablum for the kids and unwashed masses.

gagrice · October 2010

I might add, Toyota builds PU trucks and SUVs that are world class. Just not the ones they sell here. Just like you could not buy the top of the line Mitsu Lancer EVO in the USA. We also get less than what the Germans have to offer here in the USA. When it comes to vehicles we are treated like the 3rd World.

iluvmysephia1 · October 2010

and it's a big butt. We did get the '65 Ford Mustang, and Lee Iacocca's creation remains the greatest car body design in automotive history. We get Mitsubishi's beautiful new world order Lancer series, and it goes down in history along with the '65 Ford Mustang as the two greatest car body designs in history.

2012 Toyota Celica

Now Mr. Toyoda enters his 2012 Toyota Celica into the fray and we are treated like utter, absolute royalty.

2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

1965 Ford Mustang

Life is good. Pop in Patty Loveless 'Nothin' but the Wheel' to the deck, fix yourself a tall Coca-Cola Classic and get prepared for the next foe of the Seattle Seahawks to nicely bite the dust. Life is good, real, real good here in these United States.

Now if Babwa-Wa-Wa would just bug the hell off and retire somewhere, I might even head over to the east end of town to Albertson's and get some Jose Cuervo Margarita, salt the top a the glass, put some vintage Foghat on the platter and not so gently rock out.

fintail · October 2010

My dull and unappealing boring Mercedes sedan could run rings around something like a Lancer GTS and not even break a sweat ...no spoiler either :P

Sales for the highline Germans are at pretty much record levels, in demand in virtually every market in the world. Too many diverse people to simply be "duped".

Is that Sportage another prepro pic? It appears to have the windshield with the funny top which I don't think has made it to production. I went to the Kia site to look at Sportage pics, and they were all cgi! Pretty lame. But compared to the insanely dull previous version, a leap forward I have no problem to admit.

Says a lot when they have to get dumptrucks full of cash to import designers from "dull" and "unappealing" German makers in order to liven up the previous dumpy KDM looks of their vehicles....

anythngbutgm · October 2010

The Chevy Equinox is 13" longer. It will out pull, out haul and out run anything in that class from Toyota, Hyundai or Kia.

I highly doubt these thraits are what buyers are looking for in 4-cylinder car based crossovers...

But I'm not sure there is a comparable Toyota or Hyundai to compare to the Equinox. The Chevy is a lot bigger and costs 5 grand more than the RAV4 or Tuscon, yet it's cheaper than the Highlander and Sante Fe which costs even more comparably equipped and have V6 powerplantss in those trim levels.

Plus, the Equinox is hampered with a turning radius that is over 5ft wider than the RAV or Tuscon and only 3 feet less than a Suburban. :sick:

link title

lemko · October 2010

My dull and unappealing boring Mercedes sedan could run rings around something like a Lancer GTS and not even break a sweat ...no spoiler either

Which one? The old fintail Mercedes, the E-Class or both?

Says a lot when they have to get dumptrucks full of cash to import designers from "dull" and "unappealing" German makers in order to liven up the previous dumpy KDM looks of their vehicles....

Or they can get Chinese designers for pennies and make blatant rip-offs of German marques.

ateixeira · October 2010

Ford sales are up for the month by 46.3%

Interesting, AN wrote "Ford Motor Co. posted a 40 percent gain", I'm sure they're including Lincoln and Mercury.

Very impressive given they've dropped a whole division.

Ford's strong results show that "if you build it, they will come" truly works. EcoBoost is a hit, and it's marketed well. GM has a DI turbo but they put it in the wrong models and noone knows it exists, i.e. there's no brand name.

Hyundai/Kia have had huge gains, too, and their DI turbo Sonata is launching now. The stats are a sucker-punch to the mainstream sedan segment, check it out:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/04/2011-hyundai-sonata-turbo-priced-at-24-145/#c- ontinued

Does anyone doubt Hyundai is going to steal market share from just about everyone? Buick/Ford/Chevy have to get to work - 17/18 mpg city no longer cut it in that segment, even for the big engine.

Nissan/Honda/Toyota are in trouble, too. Hyundai has 3-6 highway mpg on all those.

Like Ford, Hyundai's turbo runs on 87 octane. That's the killer blow. Now let's see an Ecoboost 4 banger in the next Fusion.

gagrice · October 2010

I was disputing the claim that all the innovation and great vehicles are coming from Asia. While my last time renting an Equinox was far from good. I understand they are better now than four years ago. If I was in the market for a small SUV I would check it out. It seems that a 4 banger in that big of a vehicle would have to work too hard. They are trying to please the government that owns them with high mileage over any other concern. The turning radius would also be a problem. Though I am used to that with my Suburban and now the Sequoia. If I sell this Sequoia, the ML350 blutec or X5 diesel will be on my short list. The ML is longer than the Equinox and over 2 feet less turning radius. I would not consider another Toyota. I think the Germans are still the leaders in overall driving pleasure and refinement. Their electronics cannot be any worse than Toyota's.

Toyota on the mend?

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