Toyota on the mend?

lemko · October 2010

Shoot, if these Hilux trucks are so tough and so respected by our enemies, why can't we get them here instead of these sissy poseur-trucks 'Yota sends us?

larsb · October 2010

"ALL YOUR TRUCKS ARE BELONG TO US" :shades:

fho2008 · October 2010

lemko you'd only buy GM anyway, shouldnt you be watching MTV?

explorerx4 · October 2010

they probably don't pass the safety and emissions requirements here.

iluvmysephia1 · October 2010

of the 2012 Scion FR-S.

For instance...one like this.

Unless this is some crap like a GM car when I test drive it in November of 2011, this will no doubt be my first Toyota product purchased. My son just sold the only Toyota a member of my family has ever bought, that being a 1987 Toyota Camry. I tell ya what, it was old, with 165,000 miles (that we know of) but it kept running, strong and solid for my son. He sold it to a young couple in little 'ole Willcox, AZ, for a tidy sum of $200. I am coming around full circle to liking and respecting Toyota products.

Come on, Mr. Toyoda will see to it personally that these cars are going to be built correct the first time and will kindly blow away any and all competition because he wants to restore some respect in real carbuilding to the brand. Watch and appreciate.

iluvmysephia1 · October 2010

If this recent report is correct, Toyota has green-lighted a sedan variant of the FT-86.

While details are scarce, Carsguide is reporting the sedan will be virtually identical to the coupe. This means we can expect a naturally-aspirated 2.0-liter Boxer engine, a six-speed manual transmission, ADVICS brakes, and rear-wheel drive. Eventually, the car could be outfitted with Subaru's 3.6-liter H6 engine and a hybridized Boxer powerplant.

According to sources familiar with the matter, the sedan is a "safety net" in case the coupe fails to be a sales success.

Set to go on sale in 2013, the FT-86 sedan would be positioned as a premium model. It would compete with the BMW 1/3-Series and the VW Golf GTI / Audi

Read more: http://www.worldcarfans.com/110090328223/toyota-ft-86-four-door-sedan-variant-ru- - - - - - moured#ixzz12lHkGKE9

FYI-the only tadbit of information I could find in that article that jumps out at me as being blatantly incorrect is that the car will go on sale in November of 2011, not 2013. That's preposterous. :shades:

Toyota has never denied that the 2012 Toyota FR-S will go on sale in November of 2011. Duh! Come on people, stay with me here!

ateixeira · October 2010

the base price of the HS250H is $34K?? Holy crap!

Not so fast...

http://www.insideline.com/lincoln/mkz-hybrid/2011/2011-lincoln-mkz-hybrid-first-- drive.html

$35,180 for a Lincoln MKZ Hybrid. And that's a Ford Fusion clone, while the HS is at least a unique model.

I'm not a fan of either, but Lexus' price is competitive.

nippononly · October 2010

The HS250H is more of a Camry Hybrid clone than the MKZ-H is a Fusion clone. But I get it - this is the going price for vehicles of this sort.

I still say the CT200H had better start under $30K or they won't sell ANY.

ateixeira · October 2010

I disagree - the HS uses an entirely different body, which shares not a single body panel with the Camry (not even the roof).

It uses just the powertrain from the Camry hybrid.

The MKZ-H shares both the body and the powertrain with the Ford Fusion hybid. Basically it's a Fusion hybrid dressed in a $7000 tuxedo.

There is much more similarity with the Ford/Lincon duo.

ateixeira · October 2010

I still say the CT200H had better start under $30K or they won't sell ANY

Let's look at its primary rival...the A3 TDI 5 door:

http://green.autoblog.com/2009/09/03/audi-sets-price-on-2010-a3-tdi-at-29-950/

You're right on target...I bet they come in right where Audi prices their green 5 door. It won't be any lower, and IMHO the A3 is very small, tight inside. I bet the CT is roomier. Again, not my type of car, but a prospective Lexus buyer would probably pick a hybrid over a diesel and the extra space will likely matter to them.

Let's remember that pricing has more to do with the market and competition than it does with the actual cost of production.

Having said that, the whole idea of an upscale hybrid has never really taken off. This may outsell the A3 TDI but it won't even touch Prius volume.

xlu · October 2010

Would it ever end?

More Toyota recalls

ateixeira · October 2010

Of course it will never end, recalls are a routine part of any automotive manufacturer. Duh.

Can you think of any that have never had recalls?

iluvmysephia1 · October 2010

even these latest recalls don't scare me away from chasing one of these babies in Nov. of 2011.

Bring this pup on Toyota, in Nov. of 2011, in 6-speed manual transmission form, Japanese monkey-back red, power w's, l's and m's, kickin' 500-watt stereo with 10" subwoofer in the trunk, A/C, 4 doors and $21,000 price tag.

And I will test drive one. And get back to you on that. The recalls are just that, recalls. Better than not fixing the problems, right?

BTW-the latest idea is that Toyota will sell the low end model, the one for $21,000, as a 2012 Scion FR-S. Due to Scion dealers in November of 2011. Stay tuned for the changes as we find them all out.

Oh, I almost forgot. Toyota will change the bodystyle of the FR-S just a tad in time for the Scion sales lots. I'd love to be a fly on the wall a the design house working on this right now. I'll git back to ya.

ateixeira · October 2010

Wanted to see if you've been following the latest on the Volt...

Iron block?
Premium fuel? Seriously?
Gas engine provides propulsion?

Is there an active thread for that topic? If so I'll move the discussion there.

larsb · October 2010

Volt forum is in the Hybrid Cars area.

ateixeira · October 2010

A-ha! And the first post is yours!

Link:

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1e3dc6/0#MSG0

xlu · October 2010

Of course it will never end, recalls are a routine part of any automotive manufacturer

It's a routine for an automaker to have recalls; however it's not a routine for anyone to have massive recalls one after another.

ateixeira · October 2010

Look at how many cars they manufacture...massive volume.

Not to mention the fuel pump issue was already discussed.

xlu · October 2010

Look at how many cars they manufacture...massive volume.

Last year Toyota produced 7.2 million cars worldwide; in the last 12 month they have recalled more than 11 million cars....

nippononly · October 2010

According to the news this morning, this recall brings the total to 10 million plus for vehicles recalled by Toyota in the last year.

A very high volume, even for such a high-volume manufacturer.

And has anyone besides me noticed that more and more now, these recalls are affecting Lexus models?

nippononly · October 2010

Well, we can niggle over this and agree to disagree, but the platform and guts are the same, and reviews of both read the same: boring, quiet ride, dead steering, little to nothing in the way of handling, and similar fuel economy.

People will view this as a good way to spend $10K more on a Camry Hybrid, in order to get the Lexus badge.

And what ever happened to Toyota's promise that the next-gen ES would NOT be a continuation of Camry cloning? Now we are seeing hints of the next-gen model, and it is not RWD as promised, and in fact looks a lot like another Camry clone.

Toyota will end up diluting the effectiveness of the Lexus line just like GM had done to Cadillac prior to the Art & Science rejuvenation ten years ago, if it continues on this path.

ben66 · October 2010

Do the Maths folks : toyota's worldwide volume is around +- 8 million or so. Their total recalls ? More than 10 miilion so far.

Nissan and Renault combined sold around 6 million or so. Their total recalls ? At most a few hundred thousands.

Honda is similar, total sales worldwide around 3 million or so. Their total recalls around hundreds of thousands too.

Not far behind are the often maligned by jd power brands like VW, etc whose worldwide volumes are also in the millions and yet their no, of recalls are also relatively " normal ".

So really jd power's, consumer report's " toyota no.1 bias " reports really make a mockery of reality today and mocks common sense. I would really put toyota at the bottom of the quality rankings. The numbers tell their own story.

Nobody comes even close to toyota. Forget about toyota decades ago, today, they have SERIOUS PROBLEMS deep inside the way they do business and the way they put profits ahead of quality.

ateixeira · October 2010

There's no doubt they've had a huge number of recalls lately, but they're fixing those issues, and in the meantime Lexus lost how much market share?

None.

So customers seem to think they're taking care of it, else they'd leave for other brands.

Read the other headlines, folks. Ford has failed to fix 8.4 million out of the 14 million vehicles they recalled for risk of engine fires.

Do they get a pass? Because they're domestic? Maybe they have good lobbyists to keep NHTSA off their backs?

Oh, no biggie, it's just an engine fire.

Stop, drop, and roll.

That'll buff right out.

These Fords are HOT I tell ya.

AN wrote:

even after the largest U.S. safety recall ever

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101021/RETAIL05/101029958/1- 254#ixzz136Xu96Bc

larsb · October 2010

They are Mending, all right.

Mending all their broken cars with recalls.
:lemon: :lemon: :lemon: :lemon: :lemon:

ateixeira · October 2010

Meanwhile Ford is NOT mending all their broken cars.

Which would bother you more? Be honest.

Car-B-Q?

Or a small brake fluid leak? The sensor actually works and warns you, so it wasn't ever a serious problem, even.

larsb · October 2010

Yep, that Ford story is pretty amazing. Seems like after the Ford Exploder problems, Ford might have learned a lesson, but maybe not.

ateixeira · October 2010

Thanks for acknowledging that.

It's a sad environment, really, when fixing something is seen as a bad thing. I've never seen recalls as bad, per se. Sure, they acknowledge a problem, but they also acknowledge a problem.

You see the difference.

Toyota called me in to inspect the chain that secures the spare tire, a just-in-case fix that wasn't even necessary. People see that and they're not going to have the reaction people here are having, far from it.

They'll go in to the dealer at the next scheduled service, check out some new cars, and drive home happy. No biggie.

Meanwhile, if that rear axle on your Ford literally breaks in half, and you don't live in the snow belt?

Sorry! No recall if you're not in the snow belt.

That makes Ford's recall totals look better. Ironic, no?

Would it make you feel better as an owner, though?

It's just a rear axle breaking in half, no big deal. Shoot, the engine will probably catch fire first, so it's not even your primary concern!

Who cares, Ford has fewer recalls this year!

Toyota is under the microscope and will fix anything and everything that goes wrong. Is that such a bad thing?

nippononly · October 2010

Too many things going wrong, that's the "bad thing". And it's always with third-party parts.

Honda is recalling half a million vehicles today for the same problem - defective brake master cylinders - that Toyota recalled yesterday. Odysseys and something else, some of them 6 years old already. It seems they got their brake master cylinders from the same place Toyota did......

The larger lesson learned, I think, is that the Japanese have officially joined the domestics in the club of automakers that have cost-cut too much - they have gone beyond the fat and even the flesh, and have started cutting bone. Recalls like Honda's today and Toyota's yesterday are proof positive as far as I'm concerned.

And with the giant profit margins on Lexus vehicles, you would think they could have avoided that pitfall at least with the Lexus line.

imidazol97 · October 2010

toyota advertises how their 2007 toyota camry is better quality than a 2010 Ford Focus and something else. Just wonderful, those cars are.

If you overlook the little problems of public recalls. And then there's the braking problem when the engines are running away. But the runaway engines just didn't happen, really, because it was a sticking floor mat or an accelerator pedal in the wrong place instead of computers and electronics gone wild.

And then we have brakes leaking fluid and posters want to talk about FORD?

GIMME a break. It was bad enough before toyota applied their fixes to enough cars that runaway computers aren't happening now when nobody would 'man up' to the reality of what toyota had been doing for years with hiding reality and using the NHTSA rules to misrepresent the runaaway reports. Now it's Ford's fault that toyota's master cylinders are leaking?

xlu · October 2010

in the meantime Lexus lost how much market share? None

Why do you refer only to Lexus market share? Look at the much bigger picture of Toyota; their market share dropped from 16.6% in the first 9 months of 2009 to 15.2% in the first 9 months of this year. Can you explain it?

Ford...even after the largest U.S. safety recall ever

Ford recalled 14 million cars for switch in a period of 10 years; Toyota already recalled 14 million cars in one year; that's already a record and you can bet on that they would refresh their own record in no time soon.

gagrice · October 2010

A NHTSA spokeswoman said that about 60 percent of the 14 million recalled vehicles -- or 8.4 million  have not been brought in for repair by owners.

Typically, about 30 percent of recalled vehicles are not returned for repair within a year-and-a-half of the announcement, said the spokeswoman, who asked not to be named.

Today's statement singled out used-car owners who may not know whether the vehicles they bought had ever been returned to dealers for needed repairs.

I am not buying that story. I was a second owner on my 1999 Ford Ranger and they tracked me down and I went in for the CC fix. Took all of two minutes by the service guy and I was on my way. How many of those 8.4 million are not even on the road or the owners tossed the letter in the trash? I had also moved from the address I was at when I bought the Ranger from a private party. I blame the owners for most of those 8.4 million vehicles. What would you expect Ford or any other auto maker to do. I think some of the posters here claimed they were not going to have Toyota perform the throttle fixes on their cars.

berri · October 2010

All of the big ones have recall issues and seem to go through bad periods of time intervals. However, it seems to me that while the Fremont plant tauught GM a few things about quality and efficient production, Toyota caught a bad case of GM arrogance out of it. Personally, I believe Toyota is learning its lesson and will become an even better company from this.

iluvmysephia1 · October 2010

of the Toyota/Scion FT-86. Gorgeous shot of this new car from Toyota that is bar none the pertiest car body ever penned. Or spot-squarned from a computer's mouse. Lovely. And real. Coming to a Scion dealer near you in Nov. of 2011. Look at that beautiful monkey-back red shine gloriously!

This picture has me captivated and drooling

The only thing that'll slow me down is the 226 miles north to Boise! :shades:
Think I'll call Dale White Toyota of Elko to see if they could service my FR-S there so I don't have to drive 226 miles north to the purchasing dealer every time the car needs service. I'm checking in to the Big-O Tire store here in Elko tomorrow to get the Lancer GTS' oil changed. I noticed they sell Pirelli tires there. If I like them I'll just adopt them as my servicing dealer for most things Mitsubishi/Scion and just go to the dealers for brand-specific needs. The closest Mitsubishi dealer is also in Boise. I noticed Boise State is still #3 in the polls.

The Boise State-Nevada game at Nevada is Nov. 26 and I will be watching that one as Nevada has a very good squad this year.

Over. And out.

stever · October 2010

Ahem, even though I've moved away, I happen to know that Boise State is number 2 in the AP and USA Today polls. The BCS doesn't count for squat. :shades:

That FT's back end reminds me of another blunt end from some automaker. I'm thinking it was a Cadillac - CTS maybe?

fezo · October 2010

So you are saying they might stand a chance against Nevada?

stever · October 2010

Heh, Nevada is 6-1 and is playing good ball. You never know.

In other news, Toyota tells Ralph Nader "oh yeah?".

Toyota to Ralph Nader: We spent $8.9 billion on R&D (USA Today)

fintail · October 2010

If that's a real photo, I'm Mickey Mouse

iluvmysephia1 · October 2010

like a photochop-shop now that you mention it. I am really curious to see how the 4-door version of this car will look. Because that is the one I want. All we have is another photoshop of that to look at so far.

The coupe looking like it will actually look like...just photochopped in to this warehouse scene

A chop of the sedan for all of you all to view

The sedan needs a bit a work, as you can see. It would be cool if Toyota would release a pic of the sedan. I don't think they've built one of those yet, though, so it would only be a chop like this or a rendering. An artists's rendering would work, uh-huh.

ateixeira · October 2010

it's always with third-party parts

Toyota haters conveniently overlook the fact that suppliers CTS and Delphi are domestic. Wouldn't surprise me if those brake master cylinders were also made here.

But yes, I agree that the cost-cutting is in large part to blame.

ateixeira · October 2010

Ford is a point of reference to compare them to.

I'd rather have problems acknowledged and fixed, and yes, recalled if necessary.

In one breath you criticize Toyota for hiding and not fixing things (which has been corrected) and in the next you give Ford a pass for ignoring axles-broken-in-half.

The reason this hits home for me is that it affects minivans they marketed as safe, and I considered closely.

ateixeira · October 2010

They're buying them back!

I guess that's good, and better PR to take a hot mess like this taken off the road:

Beyond the axle (only being recalled in snow belt states!), check out the spare tire - you guys were up in arms when the spare tire holder in the Sienna got recalled for inspection. Ford has not recalled those! Yay, fewer recalls, they win! And what's that in behind the cracked axle, a panhard bar? Nice and rusty, too.

I love the part about "providing rental cars to customers to those with cracked or perforated axles noting it poses an increased risk of a crash". Talk about understatements!

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20101022/AUTO01/10220453/1148/rss25#ixzz13OUIRPmo"

This is the 5-star safety rated minivan, as they marketed it.

Now, why is this relevant?

Because you all are holding Toyota to a much higher standard. There was criticism here when Toyota recalled a spare tire carrier that might rust. And by the way, mine was not even rusty. Toyota has now taken a better-safe-then-sorry approach.

Yet Ford's vans are breaking in half and that's just fine. Call us if you crash and die.

I sure am glad I got Toyota's minivan instead of Ford's!

gagrice · October 2010

Only two minor accidents as a result of broken axles. Hardly in a league with those killed by the front suspension failures in Tacoma PU trucks. Or the poorly designed throttles that have killed more than 100 people.

I think buying back the vans is a good move. They will sell more Fords and my stock will continue to go up. Toyota is still on the hot seat. Ford is doing what is needed to maintain their great reputation. :shades:

fezo · October 2010

Funny thing with the 5 star minivan.

When our Windstall started falling apart as you drove it and Ford stonewalled and acted in as ugly a manner as you could imagine I get fed up with them on the phone to the point where I'm just screaming back at them. My wife asks for the phone to be more civil.... Within tow minutes she's yelling "it's a good thing the thing is 5 star safety rated! It stops working in the middle of traffic!"

imidazol97 · October 2010

>Because you all are holding Toyota to a much higher standard.

Title of forum:
Toyota on the mend for 2010?

Notice the question mark at the end.

It's really odd that every time toyota gets caught again, Ford is thrown up as an excuse? Did this become the toyota isn't responsible because Ford did it? forum? :P

That would be like Edmunds blaming another car site every time the emotorcons don't work right (which is often)!!!

fezo · October 2010

Everyone goes through this phase. GM had several years when they recalled more cars than they made. Ford has this. Everyone has something.

On the two cars where I thought that the vehicle wasn't performing up to standard the companies treated me like trash. That has kept me from VW and Ford showrooms.

I've had excellent customer service from Honda and I haven't yet had an issue to take to Toyota.

ateixeira · October 2010

I'd say that recalling potentially rusty spare tire mounts because they MIGHT be rusting is "on the mend". Don't you agree?

Especially when the industry standard is fix it only when you HAVE to, and even then only in snow belt regions.

It's funny, people here were up in arms complaining that Toyota did not want to fix anything, and now that Toyota is fixing everything, even preventatively inspecting potentially bad items, the same people want to use that against them.

My minivan is fine, like I said - Toyota checked it "just in case" and I know it's fine.

Look again at that photo - if it were a Toyota, would people react the same way? Only 2 accidents, gimme a break.

Perhaps we should rename the topic "Let's all bash Toyota and apply double standards (no complaining about any other make, just Toyota)".

ateixeira · October 2010

LOL:

The leak concerns arise when customers don't use the original type of brake fluid. That can allow the seal on the master cylinder to fail.

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20101022/AUTO01/10220419/1148/rss25#ixzz13PG0WVIe

So owner error, really. A recall to install fault-tolerant seals makes sense, but that's another preventative fix, just like the potentially rusty cables holding the spare tires.

berri · October 2010

Personally, I think the auto company that seems to always get the easy pass is Honda. They had the same, or at least very similar, issue on brake fluid that Toyota did, but the media seemed to just treat it as an "oh, by the way", no headlines or big fuss. Read the Honda blogs and you see repeated complaints about potentially big dollar, serious stuff like engines, transmissions, brakes, A/C or steering racks, but again, little media coverage.

I guess Toyota was relegated as a media scapegoat when they became #1. I am not surprised because they treat Walmart differently even though their practices, salaries and the like aren't much, if any different than Target or Macy's. Same goes for McDonald's.

tlong · October 2010

Personally, I think the auto company that seems to always get the easy pass is Honda. They had the same, or at least very similar, issue on brake fluid that Toyota did, but the media seemed to just treat it as an "oh, by the way", no headlines or big fuss. Read the Honda blogs and you see repeated complaints about potentially big dollar, serious stuff like engines, transmissions, brakes, A/C or steering racks, but again, little media coverage.

I guess Toyota was relegated as a media scapegoat when they became #1. I am not surprised because they treat Walmart differently even though their practices, salaries and the like aren't much, if any different than Target or Macy's. Same goes for McDonald's.

Probably some truth in that. But realize there is no way you can tell the statistical frequency of those problems. If Toyota had 50% of their cars with serious problems and GM had 25% of their cars with serious problems and Honda had 1% of their cars with serious problems, you would still be able to read about serious problems on the Honda board. Not saying these are real numbers, just saying that it COULD be that Toyota has had a lot more trouble than Honda.

berri · October 2010

The one thing I'll say about Honda is that up until recently at least they would work with their customers when something unreasonable occurred after warranty. I think that is starting to change though. My experience with Toyota, Ford and GM was all the same - TS, its out of warranty!

Toyota on the mend?

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles