Toyota on the mend?

fintail · June 2012

If we can get a sustained period under $1.20, there's a chance I will be in Germany this fall. And next year might even be better, maybe I should just save.

I think some might see they have been too pessimistic about the US...the positives still outweigh the negatives here, even with issues of late.

lemko · June 2012

I believe it's Cyprus.

ateixeira · June 2012

Bingo, heard it on the radio this AM. Seems like every other day a new country jumps on the bailout wagon.

ateixeira · June 2012

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/118333-izzardkings-top-gear-special-t- - rying-kill-4runner.html

Hysterical....

ateixeira · June 2012

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/26/scion-iq-fails-dearly-to-impress-consumer-rep- orts/

They slammed the iQ, their second lowest score.

Ironically it best its only competitors, the ForTwo!

Must be a bias.

stever · June 2012

Someone needs to switch to high desert camping.

A little Bondo and that'll be good as new.

ateixeira · June 2012

That'll buff right out...

stever · June 2012

"After a terrible recent upturn in warranty costs directly linked to safety recalls and virtual hysteria over allegedly out-of-control throttles, Toyota's claims payments are now almost back to where they were in the fiscal year ended March 31, 2008."

After a couple of bad years, warranty costs at Toyota are getting back to normal (Warranty Week)

stever · July 2012

Thanks to Gagrice for posting this elsewhere on the site:

Toyota Prius Escapes Niche to Surge Into Global Top Three (Bloomberg)

"The Prius line topped other high-volume car models including Hyundai Motor Co. (005380)s Elantra, Volkswagen AGs Golf, Fords Fiesta, General Motor Co.s Cruze and Honda Motor Co.s Civic, according to the companies.

Its the phenomenon we saw with Chrysler and minivans: It brought out the first minivan and after all these years, Chrysler still is minivan sales leader, he said. Prius was the first hybrid on the block.

Kind of funny that the Prius "brand" has accomplished what Scion was supposed to do.

nippononly · July 2012

Also kind of funny that Prius continues to receive the accolades for what Honda was ACTUALLY the first to do: bring out a hybrid. Who here remembers the Insight Mk I? :-)

But in a way Honda shot themselves in the foot by making their first hybrid an ultra-weird-looking, not-very-practical, 2-seat coupe. Prius was the first livable hybrid, even if with four seats and doors it was still tiny and very very slow.

What amuses me is that if they just designed regular gas-powered models to be as slow as Priuses, they could come very close to the Prius's stratospheric fuel economy without all the gadgetry and added expense. The Prius V is like TWELVE SECONDS 0-60 mph and a quarter mile in TWENTY, all to make 40 mpg....make a regular gas-powered wagon with a small low-powered engine and you would get mid-30s mpg for $5000 less in asking price......

stever · July 2012

Mid 30s. Around town too?

The 40 MPG Club club (gasses only, no hybrids) is growing but I don't think any of them are as big as the Prius V.

Going to the group that gets 35 to 45, per Motor Trend, of the 16 they list (all gassers and hybrids, and several that don't appear to meet the criteria), six are hatchbacks.

Toss the small Volt hatch and the iQ and the CR-Z, and you wind up with the Insight (Honda learned, no rear wheel skirts

), the CT 200h and the V.

So, what other mid-30s cars am I missing? Going from a minivan, I'd like to keeps something relative in size to my old Outback. Diesel isn't an option in this household.

Slow it may be, but the Prius owns the market at this point. I think one of my links said it was the Caravan of hybrids (Caravan "invented" the minivan and still sells the most 30 years later).

Oh, we went from a 100 hp Voyager to the '99 Quest and it does 0 to 60 in 11.1 seconds. Felt peppy from day one and still feels fast (it's torquey off the line, which help the illusion of speed. 170 lb.ft. vs 153 for the V).

Moving back to the mountains could be a concern and you definitely have my interest if I can save $5,000 or more. Looking at ~$31k OTD for a V Three.

The one I really want to see is the new C-Max.

fezo · July 2012

What? Are you getting happy feet again???

stever · July 2012

Heh, by the time the minivan really dies, someone will be selling a neutrino synergistic drive that you gas up once. It's tough having to read Chronic Car Buyers all the time (looks like Stick is ready to dump the Odyssey...sigh).

nippononly · July 2012

I didn't say they made one now - they would have to make gas-powered models as slow as hybrids, and then yes, mid-30s as a combined average rather than a highway estimate.

It's funny that hybrids get a pass for being as slow as they are, and no-one seems to notice that they are much slower than almost everything else on the market. Makes you wonder why someone doesn't just design a slow-small-engined car powered only by gasoline, stick some sort of green badge on it, and wipe out the hybrid market by undercutting it in price.

stever · July 2012

That would be the Echo. :shades:

Meanwhile the EV crowd is pushing how fast you can go. 0 to 60 in 4.4 fast enough for you? 443 lb.ft.? (WSJ)

nippononly · July 2012

Results are in and Toyota increased its retail sales by 55% over the same month a year ago. But for me that's not the big news, the Big 7's fleet sales as a percentage of their total sales is.

In June, 98% of Honda sales were retail, and 91% of Toyota's.

By contrast a full THIRD of GM and Ford sales were to fleets, and a quarter of all Chrysler sales.

In retail sales Toyota is very close to GM's sales pace, and well beyond that of any other automaker including Ford (and Honda).

http://www.autonews.com/article/20120716/RETAIL01/307169935/1422

ateixeira · July 2012

It's funny that hybrids get a pass for being as slow as they are

The volume Prius isn't really slow for what it is - some mags hit 60 in the low 9s.

Diesel fans brag about an 80mpg Polo TDI and then defend the 14 second 0 to 60 as adequate.

For a fuel miser, I don't think the Prius is slow. Nor does it feel slow off the line, with the instant torque from the electric motor (vs diesel turbo lag).

I think the idea of the Prius being slow has more to do with the driver behind the wheel trying to optimize fuel economy, and then it's a stereotype that just reinforces itself. Every time you see a Prius crawling it makes you think they're all that way.

Remember Al Gore Junior got nailed for going over 100mph on the highway?

LOL

ateixeira · July 2012

Toyota to expand production of Lexus RX in Canada

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20120724/OEM01/120729961#ixzz21Zl2peek

ateixeira · July 2012

Toyota had incredible results in June but I was on a sunny beach in Brazil so who cares. :shades:

Hey, I did see an UBER cool Toyota while down there. My brother is a judge and his best bud is as well. His buddy owns a Hilux SW4, but it's fully armored! The thing was a BEAST! I opened the windows, which only go down half way, and they were more than an inch thick. Bullet proof.

The conversion was amazing because I had *no* idea until I opened the window, then asked.

He's a labor law judge, and he's honest (unacceptable in a bribe-filled country). So you can imagine when his hammer drops either rich businessmen or poor workers are mad at him, so he doesn't take any chances.

fintail · July 2012

How can someone honest even become a judge in the paragon of ethics and human rights that is modern Brasil? :shades: I mean seriously though, they aren't elected, right? I'd wager probably 90% of the political/ruling class there probably deserves what they'd get if there were no such things as armored cars.

No Prius clogging the left lanes down there, I bet.

nippononly · July 2012

For a fuel miser, I don't think the Prius is slow. Nor does it feel slow off the line, with the instant torque from the electric motor (vs diesel turbo lag).

Ever try to get from 50 mph to 70 mph in a Prius? I have. My drive home on some evenings is on a rural highway with an inconveniently placed traffic light, after which I am trying to climb a hill and get to 70 MPH from a stop or almost stop.

In my Yaris I can be at 70 mph by the top of the hill. When I am in the loaner Prius from the dealership I can only get to 55 with it floored the whole way up.

NO power at speed in the Prius. Just lots of noise with that annoying CVT and the engine turning at 6000 rpm. Not that much power in the Prius, PERIOD, except perhaps that 0-30 spurt you make reference to with that instant-on electric motor torque.

The Yaris is quicker than the Prius in all situations while returning 38-40 mpg. But of course it doesn't get the mystical magical 50 mpg of the Prius, although it does cost about $8000 less to buy....

fintail · July 2012

Friend of mine recently bought a Prius C, and that's his complaint - no passing power, and not easy to maintain high speeds. He lives in GA where rural interstate traffic often moves at 75+ - he says hills are a big obstacle. I've advised him to get running starts, similar strategy to a semi maybe.

ateixeira · July 2012

they aren't elected, right?

Nope - public exams. Dunno about how much cheating goes on, but my brother was Valedictorian and that guy was his study pal, so they earned it.

Didn't see a single Prius in Brazil. Odd because gas is pricey, about $6.50 per. Taxis use CNG conversions, though, that's real cheap there.

You'd hate driving there, no discipline at all. On a 3 lane road you end up with 5 cars side by side, and maybe 3 motorcycles also. Light turns green and it's a drag race. Crazy.

anythngbutgm · July 2012

According to Bloomberg, Toyota sold 4.97 million vehicles worldwide during the first half of the year. Government Motors reported last month that it sold 4.67 million vehicles during the first half of 2012 while VWs six-month sales count stands at 4.45 million units.

Not really a Toyota customer myself but seeing them back on top after last years disaster is impressive and commendable.

ateixeira · July 2012

Well, it is a city car. You're out of its element, up hill at speed...

Prius C even more so, it has a smaller gas engine. Funny thing is CR got better mileage overall in the bigger Prius. The C was better in the city but the Prius did a lot better on the highway and had a better overall average combined.

My pet peeve with the C is the tiny gas tank - 9.5 gallons? C'mon, the low fuel light probably goes on after you use 7 gallons or so. Range would only be so-so.

ateixeira · July 2012

So much for the haters who thought the tough times were permanent.

I'll admit I didn't think they'd bounce back quite so quickly, though.

fintail · July 2012

Maybe they just cheated really well

...and certainly none have ever been bought off...

It's funny that people who come from those wild chaotic traffic areas often drive like chickens with their heads cut off once they land here in the land of slow plodding oblivion. No Prius though, that might make the chaos worth it... :shades:

ateixeira · July 2012

Prius are easy to pass...never a concern really.

Plus, the Miata is low, I can see through a Prius with that windows on the back.

My concern is the lady in the Bimmer this morning who was applying mascara. Even while moving. :sick:

fintail · July 2012

Around here sometimes they will get in the carpool lane and pace the car beside them. And don't get me going about how they merge. There's valid reason those cars are loathed by so many enthusiasts.

A few years ago I saw a guy in an 01-06 Lexus LS using an electric razor while driving down the middle lane of I-5.

ateixeira · July 2012

Yeah but the lady with the mascara was using the mirror. Seriously.

fintail · July 2012

She was looking behind her. Safe driver!

ateixeira · July 2012

Funny how a domestic brand is treated so differently:

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/07/26/ford-recalling-485-000-last-gen-escapes-to-fi- x-unintended-accele/

Remember NHTSA has twice the number of complaints for Ford vs. Toyota before all the hysteria.

imidazol97 · July 2012

>domestic brand is treated so differently:

Naah. This was caused by a repair under warranty for an earlier cable problem. There haven't been any done with these repair items since 2006. Too long ago.

And Ford has reported theirs, rather than covering them up or reporting as a different level of problem, or using their contacts within NHTSA to try to gloss them over.

I think we need to have NASA give us a full report.

ateixeira · July 2012

99 incidents yet hardly any media coverage. Home field advantage is pretty nice.

fintail · July 2012

I wonder if it is driver error vs mechanicals for those. That's part of the story too. Let's face it, the Toyotas impacted by that scandal don't tend to be driven by the most capable motorists.

ateixeira · July 2012

Yeah, funny how it always tended to be the 87 year old grandma making claims that the car drove itself away.

Exception: Saylor, the retired cop.

ateixeira · July 2012

And Ford has reported theirs, rather than covering them up or reporting as a different level of problem

Are you sure? Mazda is just now recalling 3 additional model years:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120727/AUTO0104/207270427/1148/rss25

I said this early on, Ford's complaint level was double. I say their PR folks kept this nice and quiet. :P

berri · July 2012

You raise a good point. One thing I've noticed is that it seems to me that the Camry pedal placement seems to be kind of close between the accelerator and brake. May be a contributor?

ateixeira · July 2012

NHTSA is rejecting the "tin whiskers" theory and they still believe the likely cause was simply pedal misapplication.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120727/OEM11/120729908/1493-

People here complained a lot about how slow Toyota's response was, but the affected Fords date back as early as MY2001 and there was a death in January 2012, so it's still unresolved after more than a decade.

And they're still looking at RHD and Mavericks.

I think Ford stalled while Toyota was taking heat. Now they've got some 'splaining to do.

I called it. When the complaint rate for Ford was double that of Toyota, there had to be an explanation.

fintail · July 2012

For the easily confused with big feet, perhaps. Sadly, the first instinct of many when a car lurches is to slam on something - many times it just happens to be the gas. I suspect in places with better drivers training, these incidents don't exist.

fintail · July 2012

I suspect the Saylor tragedy actually was a combination of at least two of these: floormats, panic, unfamiliar car. I wonder if other similar cars have occasional incidents like this, but nobody decides to pay attention as the driver is clearly at fault.

mcdawgg · July 2012

Yes, I agree with ateixeira. Ford seems to have a big problem, I recall him pointing this out at the time.

Here's another one to show the strong performance of Toyota, much to the chagrin of the Toyota hate club:

link title

The good news is all makers are much more dependable than in the past, and the so-called USA makers are doing well, and I am happy for that. I may like Toyota the best, but I want everyone to do well (hint, hint).

stever · July 2012

Saylor owned the same car as the loaner as I recall. I also don't remember that he was retired.

obyone · July 2012

Definitely not retired as daughter was teen aged.

mcdawgg · July 2012

Saylor was a floor mat. The dealer loaned the car out a few days before with an all-weather mat from a different model car, or even with a mat on top of a mat - I can't remember exactly, but it was a floor mat issue. The guy that had it complained to the dealership when he returned it that the floormat interfered with the accelerator. The problem is the dealership did nothing, and loaned it out again with the wrong mat to Saylor.

obyone · July 2012

Remember how much Toyota paid to the Saylor family for the accident? How much was the dealership payoff? Really hard to believe that Toyota had such a bad design that another vehicle's mat would kill a family and that a CHP couldn't figure the solution prior to the crash.

imidazol97 · July 2012

>

Ten Million Dollars
$10,000,000

Paid to the families for the accident allegedly caused by the floormat pictures above.

"The accident called into question the quality of Toyota products, tarnishing the image of the world's largest automaker. It contributed to a spate of recalls in the U.S.

"It has also led to an unusual split between the Tokyo-based corporation and one of its longtime dealerships, Bob Baker Lexus."

But the dealership said, "Baker himself has dismissed such allegations as "crap." He believes the Sheriffs Department botched its probe by not fully examining possible manufacturing defects."

Even their own dealer keeps dawging toyota about the manufacturing defects.

ateixeira · July 2012

The family was still suing the dealership. IMHO the liability was theirs.

Of course they went against the manufacturer - to deflect the blame from themselves.

Toyota is responsible for training, though.

Ford's problems are only beginning.

imidazol97 · July 2012

>Ford's problems are only beginning.

Their problems were mechanical in nature. Hope they don't get dawgged by a bunch of niggling little things. They responded to the new problem quickly with the replacement linkages and changed the replacements. :shades:

ateixeira · July 2012

2001+ model affected, death in January 2012. I wouldn't call that quick.

All along I pointed out that double-the-complaint rate had to mean something and you all totally ignored me.

When you have two large manufacturers, i.e. a large sample, the NHTSA data was significant.

Toyota on the mend?

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