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You're beginning to sound like your fellow California 'dark clouder'. We're not even talking about the same order of magnitude. Even if every one of the 3.8 million vehicle owners did agree to swap out the gas pedals, very very unlikely, at a cost of $100 per swap then that comes to all of $380 Million.
3% interest on $5.6 Billion comes to...$168 Million...annually. SNAP.
The consumer pays $120/hour for labor. I bet the manufacturer pays at least $90.
The pedal won't be free, it comes with manufacturing costs, shipping costs, and associated accounting costs. That's only after it has been designed, for which there will be additional cost.
What if they have to do bodywork on 3.8 million vehicles to modify the floor pan? NHTSA has hinted that the design of the floor pan is one of the problems.
All I'm saying is you have no way at all to estimate the cost of this recall. But we can have a gentlemens' wager if you like: it will cost at least twice as much as the $380 million figure you propose.
As for "grandma"s remark above, it should be placed in the context from which it came: that person's tolerance threshold for cost-cutting has been exceeded by Toyota, and maybe by several other automakers also to judge from the way it was worded.
Toyota has pretty much exceeded my tolerance threshold for cost-cutting too. That has happened in the last 5-7 years. 25 years of buying Toyotas may have ended permanently for me unless Toyota does a drastic double-take in the next few years. That opinion has not been influenced at all by this latest floor mat thing, which I still say is at the limit of what the manufacturer should be responsible for (given that operator negligence and error seems to have occurred in every case).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Cost cutting is a way of life in business and manufacturing. It's a matter of fact and it's a matter of survival in the auto industry because we the buyers simply will not pay the price for a vehicle that was linked to the rate of inflation.
A 2000 Camry in Oct 99listed for ~$20000.. At the nominal rate of inflation from Sept 99 to Sept 09 prices have increased 28.63%. At that rate the current 2010 Camry should be priced at $25700!
This $25700 vehicle would be equipped with a
2.2L engine with 125 HP
It would get ~30 mpg on the highway real world
It would have two airbags
It would have an AM/FM CD tape player audio system
It would be the size of the current Corolla!!
It would have only the basic ABS system, sometimes.
Except for leather and a sunroof there were almost no other options
THAT's it***********
A 2010 Camry now lists for ~$22900. It has more equipment, more power, more safety features.
2.5L engine with 169 HP
It gets 36-38 mpg in realworld highway driving
It has 7 airbags and active headrest restraints
It has AM/FM, CD and AUX inputs
It is significantly larger and safer than the prior model
It has the Star Safety system that advances the ABS system to include BA, EBD, VSC and Trac.
all of these are standard in the basic price.
In addition many more features are now available. But the key point is that the vehicle is larger, safer, more powerful, more fuel efficient and most importantly the effects of inflation have been absorbed to the tune of ~ $2800.
There is no magic dust in the business of building vehicles. If all components like steel, oil, power, plastic, rubber and fabric are all going up at the rate of inflation how does Toyota - or any vehicle maker - put more into the vehicles yet keep the over all prices at half the level of inflation. With all these additions and improvements at a price that's nearly $3000 lower than it should be you can bet that efficiencies ( your term cost-cutting ) had to be employed. The other result is that you and I would be paying $20000+ for basic Corollas and $26000 for standard Camry's.
Why? Because we the buyers demanded that the makers - every maker - do this.
The former point: There is no indication that this will be anything more than a gas pedal replacement on a certain number of vehicles. Many won't even bother. I don't know the cost of the part might be but looking at the pedal it can't be all that much to replace it. The retail cost of shop labor might be in the $120 range...but internally?? I'll stick with $380 Million ...tops. This assumes that every vehicle gets done.
We'll know soon enough.
So....how much more are you willing to pay to 'stop this cost cutting trend'?
the big gorilla in the room is that most buyers can only afford to pay a certain amount.
that changes much slower than the progress of technology or government imposed standards.
Also, paint jobs have been getting worse, I've noticed, in more recent years. Either that, or my eyesight is getting better. Anyway, one day, I pulled up next to a 2006 or so Accord, midnight blue, in my midnight blue 1979 New Yorker. A car from what had been, until just the past couple years, from one of Chrysler's darkest eras. Yet, that new-ish Accord had more noticeable orange-peel on it than my disco-era dreadnaught!
The paints do hold up better these days, but they seem to be put on much more sloppily. Unless maybe it's just because the shine is deeper, and with the clearcoats and such these days, it makes any flaws that much more noticeable?
But, while there are those little pitfalls, the cars are still steadily improving, for the most part.
We as buyers have made our preferences known as a group; 'stuff' or top quality materials/fabrication? We've opted for 'stuff' and we're willing to listen to the occasional rattle or put up with a mismatched panel.
That being said I think that both midsized autos and compact autos have reached their maximum size level for the NA market. How big can a Malibu or Accord or Camry get before it becomes a Town Car? Safety features are adopted almost as soon as the IIHS proposes them. Interior features? How much content do we actually want/need inside 3000# vehicle moving at 75 mph? A movie theater for the driver and passenger?
My own guess is that vehicle makers now will be cranking down on the production quality and improving the quality of the interiors as prices go up little by little. JMHO.
One thing I've noticed is coated interior plastics that don't hold up to wear and cleaning. On my mother's Volvo S80, there was a panel on the bottom part of the dash that looked like it had some gray dirt on it, so I started to scrape it off with my fingernail, and the "dirt" got bigger. I was actually removing the ivory-colored finish of the dashboard! #@)$#()!!!
On newer cars, I also see a lot of painted silver interior trim pieces (yuck, they're tacky and they're in every new car now) and soft-touch coatings that don't hold up.
Not every cost is being cut, though. I see that Honda has seen fit to delete the prop rod and include gas-pressurized hood struts on the current Accord, but only if you get the V6. Could HID headlamps and a six-speed automatic be next?
This increase is hard to explain in light of other prices going down. I have a call in to my agent !!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I used to think that a few years ago, but I see too many cars with bad orange peel for them to all be Earl Sheib specials. I think it's mainly the darker colors where I notice it the most, though. My '76 LeMans was repainted at some point in its life, before I bought it, and I'm not too crazy about its paintjob. Looks good from, say 10-20 feet, but when you get up close you can see the orange peel texture. However, a year after I got that car, one of my friends got an '06 Xterra in dark gray, and the orange peel on that thing was so bad that, suddenly, my LeMans didn't look so bad anymore!
Also, it may just be how the light happens to catch it. And I notice it more on the sides of cars than I do on the hood/roof/trunk.
I also hate that dulled-down, painted silver plastic crap they use in cars. I think it looks worse than that chrome trimmed plastic they used to use...at least until that chrome crap starts peeling off!
07 Sequoia $900 per year
05 GMC PU $850 per year
06 Mercedes Sprinter RV $450 per year
05 VW Passat TDI $1200 per year
With a totally clean record. And I have $240 deductible on Collision. It was $500 on the VW.
I don't know how much bearing this would have on it, but my homeowner's insurance, which is with the same company, just came due. It was $706, up slightly from $702 the year before. And that's STILL down overall. 5 years ago, when I first insured the house with my car insurance company, it was $759.
Anyway, I'm hoping my car insurance takes a trend similar to the homeowners!
Our auto insurance went up this time, too. I called our insurance company and a rep told us that all rates are up for our state. The real problem is inflation. Since the government went on a spending spree, the dollar is rapidly dropping in value. Things don't cost more; our dollares buy less.
1. 2007 Lexus LX 470- $579
2, 2006 Lexus LS 430- $690
3. 2005 Chevy p.u. $637.
Still, it has gone up considerably in the last 2 years.
The p.u. is actually gone now, replaced by 2008 Infinity G37 Journey Coupe...I don't have the premium for it yet but expect it to be higher than the p.u.
I like the co. I am with because they write an annual policy instead of 6 months so I only have to fool with it once a year.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2, 2006 Lexus LS 430- $690
I have a theory on why these two are going up. Generally, if a car gets into an accident, an insurance company will total it when the cost to repair exceeds 60% of the book value. Well, let's say a car was $50,000 new, but is now down to $30K. If that brand new car got into an accident that did $18K worth of damage to it, the insurance company would fix it, and be out $18K. However, if a $30K car gets $18K of damage, that's at the 60% mark, and now the insurance company is out $30K, as they've totaled the car.
The car's value will continue to go down over the years, and eventually, insurance rates should drop a bit, once it gets to the point that that 40% difference isn't so great anymore. For instance, once the car's only worth $10K, and you get into that $18K accident, the insurance company is only out $10K. Of course, you could get into a $6K accident and get totaled out, but the ins co is still only out $10K.
At least, that's my theory.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I know that GM has led that statistic for years so it would be amazing that Toyota would the same year they took the top spot away from Government Motors. :surprise:
The top spot is cursed I tell ya! :P
Just one more off-topic point: The insurance company wouldn't be out the full amount, because they'd get a good deal of salvage value out of the car.
It's not that 'the cost of technology should have gone down' in the last 10 years, it's the fact that these technologies never existed in basic midsized vehicles. They are complete add-ons in both capability and in cost.
There were 2 airbags in the 2000 model...now there are 7 airbags. 7 costs more than 2. Special technology for active headrest restraints never existed til recently.
The vehicle is bigger in every way so there's more of every material. More material means higher costs. This I do know. I was in this business. The prices of raw materials are much higher today than they was in the 80s, 90s or even at the beginning of this decade. So more material at higher prices?.....that's not too hard to figure out.
Airbag, schmarebag. They deleted the tape player! If that's not a clear example of decontenting, I don't know what is. :P
That's for the whole year (one doesn't have collision).
Not much Toyota news since everyone is waiting to see if the shortened gas pedals is going to be the recall fix. Unless you consider the Prius getting beat by the Focus newsworthy.
Ford Fusion named Motor Trend car of the year (AP)
Bill
From 2002 to 2009 Toyota built 3.8 million vehicles? Your knowledge of the auto industry is severely lacking my friend. Try this statement for accuracy: in those 8 years in the US alone they sold 20-25 million vehicles*. Now you're in the ballpark.
Accuracy is important.
*This of course doesn't include China, Japan, Germany, all of Europe, the rest of Asia, all of the midEast, all of Central and South America nor any part of Australia. Just try to keep it accurate.
Missing the mark: Not a single model from the world's biggest automaker by sales is represented among this year's winners. Toyota and its Lexus and Scion subsidiaries had a strong showing in 2009 with 11 winners but were shut out for 2010. Four other manufacturers whose vehicles have earned Top Safety Pick in the past didn't have a qualifying vehicle for 2010: BMW, Mazda, Mitsubishi, and Saab. The Honda Accord picked up the award the past 2 years, but the 2010 didn't earn the required good roof strength rating to qualify (the roof is rated acceptable). The Ford Fusion is another midsize car that dropped off the list for the same reason.
New rollover and roof crush standards knocked the top safety pick list from 94 to 27 cars.
ALL 27 WINNERS
Large cars
Buick LaCrosse
Ford Taurus
Lincoln MKS
Volvo S80
Midsize cars
Audi A3
Chevrolet Malibu built after October 2009
Chrysler Sebring 4-door with optional electronic stability control
Dodge Avenger with optional electronic stability control
Mercedes C class
Subaru Legacy
Subaru Outback
Volkswagen Jetta sedan
Volkswagen Passat sedan
Volvo C30
Small cars
Honda Civic 4-door models (except Si) with optional electronic stability control
Kia Soul
Nissan Cube
Subaru Impreza except WRX
Volkswagen Golf 4-door
Midsize SUVs
Dodge Journey
Subaru Tribeca
Volvo XC60
Volvo XC90
Small SUVs
Honda Element
Jeep Patriot with optional side torso airbags
Subaru Forester
Volkswagen Tiguan
I am surprised they put the C30 on that list and not the V50/S40 as they are all basically the same car.
Ahh I see what happened the S40 needed to be able to handle four times its weight in the roof crush test and only made it to 3.92 times. The C30 while it uses the exact same platform is just a little lighter so it managed to get above four times its weight.
http://jalopnik.com/5407052/bmw-toyota-dont-make-iihs-2010-top-safety-list/galle- - ry/
Not to once hopeful Presidential candidate Al Gore. Here is his statement on Conan. If Gore can be so far off on facts why should you hold us fellow posters to such a high standard of excellence. Toyota has recalled more than 3.8 million vehicles over the last 8 years. Many small recalls never make the news.
Gore in an 11/12/09 interview on NBC’s tonight Show with Conan O’Brien, speaking on geothermal energy, champion of slide show science, can’t even get the temperature of earth’s mantle right, claiming “several million degrees” at “2 kilometers or so down”. Oh, and the “crust of the earth is hot” too.
So accuracy is not as important as you claim. Only at tax time.
Seriously what does Al Gore have to do with Toyota Recalls?
I think that is going to be my new "and what does that have to do with the price of tea in China," meme.
Camry has one of the highest roof strength scores in all size classes (and good front and side ratings), but fell short in the non-life threatening rating, the rear crash (whiplash) rating. I'd pick a Camry over a Sebring in a second -- anyone else who'd really rather have Sebring? In the midsize car segment, the only class I'd look at, only the Subaru Legacy would be on my shopping list if I truly wanted one of the winners. I like the Volvo C30, but it's too pricey and seats only 4.
Let me get back to you on that one. Just commenting on the stickler for accuracy comment. Since when does any blog site have standards of excellence? It would require a staff of at least 11 AP reporters to check everything we post for accuracy.
None of us want to look ignorant. Though it does happen from time to time. Just a quick check tells me that Toyota has recalled over 5.15 million vehicles this year alone. Maybe someone knows of ones I have missed. Starting in January with 1.35 million cars with defective seat belts, that can cause a fire. Hmmm that is scary.
Toyota has to get back on the ball, although I'm surprised at some of the other omissions from the list - Honda Accord? Ford Fusion? Lots of manufacturers are dropping the ball it would seem. I wonder if this is another direct effect of excessive cost-cutting.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I've no doubt that if you went back to previous generation designs, the roofs would be weaker. Manufacturers have known for some time that the government would be strengthening the applicable safety standard, but they didn't know until early this year how high the IIHS would raise the bar.
I don't think I have ever thought of Toyota being a leader in safety. Most of their offerings have better than average crash ratings but when I think safety, the first automaker that pop into my head are Volvo, the Germans (Merc, BMW, Audi), Ford and Subaru.
Gotcha Mr. Palin.
There were several near misses for cars on both the roof crush standard and the side impact test that I am sure will be fixed by the next model year or maybe even be a running production change for this model year.
The S40 missed out by just a tiny bit on the roof crush test and the side impact test. I bet the C30 did better because of the way the doors are set up being a coupe instead of a sedan. The C30 and S40 have the exact same wheelbase and the seats are in the same place too. It is just the back end that is cutoff to make it shorter then the S40.
That tear drop styling is mostly part of the four door coupe fad that is going on right now. Same thing with the little mail slot windows lots of cars get with the very high beltline. Some of it comes from trying to get better aerodynamics to get better fuel efficiency but most of it is just a fad.
The thicker roof pillars are partly because of that fad and partly because of trying to stuff fairly thick side curtain airbags into them. You don't need big thick pillars to get a decent roof crush test score just look at all the Subarus that did well and they have relatively thin pillars with frameless windows.
You just have to use good engineering and small amount of stronger allows in the core of the roof pillar.
Those reverse-slant C-pillars were common in the 50s also, but at least then the backlite wrapped around so you had only a thin pillar.
The IIHS ratings and TOP PICK rankings are constantly moving targets.
..first it was frontal crash test ratings
..then it was frontal and side crash test ratings
..then it was frontal/side crash ratings and Stability Control
..then it was frontal/side crash ratings, ESC and Active Headrest Restraints
..now it's all of the above and roof crush strength ratings.
This is one of the reasons that the IIHS is the more important criteria for automakers and buyers. Vehicles that were top picks in the past can suddenly fall out of the ranking because the IIHS changed the rules of the game. Nothing in the Accord or Camry have changed since these Gens were introduced. The IIHS unilaterally changed its own rules.
For example from 2010 to 2011 ...
..all pickups were suddenly wiped off the TOP PICK list
..all large SUVs were suddenly wiped off the list
..80% of all the midsized SUVs were suddenly wiped off the list.
None of these vehicles changed.
Nothing new to see here. When the next Gens come out they will incorporate the new equipment that the IIHS wants. It's really that simple. No cost cutting here except that these new safety measures DO cost something. If the total cost is going to remain the same but the vehicles have to add new equipment....then something has to give. Price goes up or content goes down.