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Toyota on the mend?



  • corvettecorvette United StatesPosts: 5,712
    Could have been a bad respray job on the Accord.

    One thing I've noticed is coated interior plastics that don't hold up to wear and cleaning. On my mother's Volvo S80, there was a panel on the bottom part of the dash that looked like it had some gray dirt on it, so I started to scrape it off with my fingernail, and the "dirt" got bigger. I was actually removing the ivory-colored finish of the dashboard! #@)$#()!!!

    On newer cars, I also see a lot of painted silver interior trim pieces (yuck, they're tacky and they're in every new car now) and soft-touch coatings that don't hold up.

    Not every cost is being cut, though. I see that Honda has seen fit to delete the prop rod and include gas-pressurized hood struts on the current Accord, but only if you get the V6. Could HID headlamps and a six-speed automatic be next?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    The biggest fallacy in your thinking is the real cost of labor. It has gone down overall the last 2 decades compared to the cost of automobiles. So the higher priced vehicles is only making life worse for the working man. Why has the cost of cars risen. Why did they go up this year when NO inflation was detected by the Feds. No COLA for SS recipients because no rise in the COL. Yet cars are priced higher. Automobiles have gone up more than any other main stay in our economy. Technology should cost less today. Most of the electronics used in automobiles should be far cheaper today than 10 years ago. Yet they keep going up. Sounds like greed in the auto industry to me. Why is the ECU more today when a computer is far less for a much better unit? We are getting screwed by the auto industry. Both via the government and the automakers.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 7,640
    I just got my renewal quote on auto insurance and it is up almost 35% over last year...and nothing has changed. I have been with the same company for 4 years, no tickets, no accidnets, and an 800+ credit rating. Maybe Obama should be taking this over instead of healthcare !!

    This increase is hard to explain in light of other prices going down. I have a call in to my agent !!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    Now is the time to get quotes with other insurance companies. You'll be surprised at the variance in costs.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,043
    Could have been a bad respray job on the Accord.

    I used to think that a few years ago, but I see too many cars with bad orange peel for them to all be Earl Sheib specials. I think it's mainly the darker colors where I notice it the most, though. My '76 LeMans was repainted at some point in its life, before I bought it, and I'm not too crazy about its paintjob. Looks good from, say 10-20 feet, but when you get up close you can see the orange peel texture. However, a year after I got that car, one of my friends got an '06 Xterra in dark gray, and the orange peel on that thing was so bad that, suddenly, my LeMans didn't look so bad anymore!

    Also, it may just be how the light happens to catch it. And I notice it more on the sides of cars than I do on the hood/roof/trunk.

    I also hate that dulled-down, painted silver plastic crap they use in cars. I think it looks worse than that chrome trimmed plastic they used to least until that chrome crap starts peeling off!
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    I thought my insurance was bad on the Sequoia going up $60 this year. That is about 7% increase. However insurance on the Sequoia is 25% less than it was on the VW Passat which cost half of what the Sequoia cost new. SUVs and PU trucks are cheaper to insure here in San Diego than cars.

    07 Sequoia $900 per year
    05 GMC PU $850 per year
    06 Mercedes Sprinter RV $450 per year
    05 VW Passat TDI $1200 per year

    With a totally clean record. And I have $240 deductible on Collision. It was $500 on the VW.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,043
    My insurance, up for renewal in March 2010, is currently $1,464, for my Intrepid, Silverado, and two '79 New Yorkers. It had actually fallen slightly, from $1,497 the year before. Hopefully I won't be in for a shock this coming March!

    I don't know how much bearing this would have on it, but my homeowner's insurance, which is with the same company, just came due. It was $706, up slightly from $702 the year before. And that's STILL down overall. 5 years ago, when I first insured the house with my car insurance company, it was $759.

    Anyway, I'm hoping my car insurance takes a trend similar to the homeowners!
  • doggrandmadoggrandma IowaPosts: 144
    Trucks and SUVs are almost always cheaper to insure, because they are larger and the occupants of the vehicle are less likely to be severly injured in an accident. I have a small car, but even though it is older than my husband's car and has side air bags, it is more expensive to insure than my his Ford 500.

    Our auto insurance went up this time, too. I called our insurance company and a rep told us that all rates are up for our state. The real problem is inflation. Since the government went on a spending spree, the dollar is rapidly dropping in value. Things don't cost more; our dollares buy less. :(
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 7,640
    I don't feel so bad now. Even with the increase my annual cost is as follows:

    1. 2007 Lexus LX 470- $579
    2, 2006 Lexus LS 430- $690
    3. 2005 Chevy p.u. $637.

    Still, it has gone up considerably in the last 2 years.

    The p.u. is actually gone now, replaced by 2008 Infinity G37 Journey Coupe...I don't have the premium for it yet but expect it to be higher than the p.u.

    I like the co. I am with because they write an annual policy instead of 6 months so I only have to fool with it once a year.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,043
    1. 2007 Lexus LX 470- $579
    2, 2006 Lexus LS 430- $690

    I have a theory on why these two are going up. Generally, if a car gets into an accident, an insurance company will total it when the cost to repair exceeds 60% of the book value. Well, let's say a car was $50,000 new, but is now down to $30K. If that brand new car got into an accident that did $18K worth of damage to it, the insurance company would fix it, and be out $18K. However, if a $30K car gets $18K of damage, that's at the 60% mark, and now the insurance company is out $30K, as they've totaled the car.

    The car's value will continue to go down over the years, and eventually, insurance rates should drop a bit, once it gets to the point that that 40% difference isn't so great anymore. For instance, once the car's only worth $10K, and you get into that $18K accident, the insurance company is only out $10K. Of course, you could get into a $6K accident and get totaled out, but the ins co is still only out $10K.

    At least, that's my theory.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 7,640
    Thanks for letting us get off topic a little bit. We'll bring this to an end now. Anyway, I think Toyota is doing fine in 2009 ! :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • One question. Will this recall make Toyota the automaker highest number of recalls for 2009?

    I know that GM has led that statistic for years so it would be amazing that Toyota would the same year they took the top spot away from Government Motors. :surprise:

    The top spot is cursed I tell ya! :P
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    However, if a $30K car gets $18K of damage, that's at the 60% mark, and now the insurance company is out $30K, as they've totaled the car.

    Just one more off-topic point: The insurance company wouldn't be out the full amount, because they'd get a good deal of salvage value out of the car.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Again you miss the point entirely.

    It's not that 'the cost of technology should have gone down' in the last 10 years, it's the fact that these technologies never existed in basic midsized vehicles. They are complete add-ons in both capability and in cost.

    There were 2 airbags in the 2000 there are 7 airbags. 7 costs more than 2. Special technology for active headrest restraints never existed til recently.

    The vehicle is bigger in every way so there's more of every material. More material means higher costs. This I do know. I was in this business. The prices of raw materials are much higher today than they was in the 80s, 90s or even at the beginning of this decade. So more material at higher prices?.....that's not too hard to figure out.
  • corvettecorvette United StatesPosts: 5,712
    There were 2 airbags in the 2000 there are 7 airbags.

    Airbag, schmarebag. They deleted the tape player! If that's not a clear example of decontenting, I don't know what is. :P
  • berriberri Posts: 7,960
    I think you'd be surprised how many low mile Toyota and Honda's are totaled after significant damage even when repairable. The parts are worth a fortune which often allows the insurance company to reduce its cost, or even make a profit, by totaling rather than repairing.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    This insurance thread has got me thinking I shouldn't trade cars (or move). I'm paying $559 for two cars.

    That's for the whole year (one doesn't have collision).

    Not much Toyota news since everyone is waiting to see if the shortened gas pedals is going to be the recall fix. Unless you consider the Prius getting beat by the Focus newsworthy.

    Ford Fusion named Motor Trend car of the year (AP)
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    That is a fact. The local shop got a salvage early 1990s tail light lens for a Camry and he handed the kid from the wrecking yard $90 cash. I wonder what he charged the customer for that red piece of plastic.
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    What's Motor Trend? Are they still around?
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    I agree with all you've said in this post and the preceding ones. But the Camry doesn't yet have active head restraints, like the Corolla and new Prius. It's likely the next redesign (in model year 2012?) will.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 9,848
    Time to take those blinders off, anythngbutgm. In either 2005-06-07, Toyota recalled as many cars as they built...millions.

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    HUH??? More faulty logic.

    From 2002 to 2009 Toyota built 3.8 million vehicles? Your knowledge of the auto industry is severely lacking my friend. Try this statement for accuracy: in those 8 years in the US alone they sold 20-25 million vehicles*. Now you're in the ballpark.

    Accuracy is important.

    *This of course doesn't include China, Japan, Germany, all of Europe, the rest of Asia, all of the midEast, all of Central and South America nor any part of Australia. Just try to keep it accurate.

    Missing the mark: Not a single model from the world's biggest automaker by sales is represented among this year's winners. Toyota and its Lexus and Scion subsidiaries had a strong showing in 2009 with 11 winners but were shut out for 2010. Four other manufacturers whose vehicles have earned Top Safety Pick in the past didn't have a qualifying vehicle for 2010: BMW, Mazda, Mitsubishi, and Saab. The Honda Accord picked up the award the past 2 years, but the 2010 didn't earn the required good roof strength rating to qualify (the roof is rated acceptable). The Ford Fusion is another midsize car that dropped off the list for the same reason.

    New rollover and roof crush standards knocked the top safety pick list from 94 to 27 cars.


    Large cars
    Buick LaCrosse
    Ford Taurus
    Lincoln MKS
    Volvo S80

    Midsize cars
    Audi A3
    Chevrolet Malibu built after October 2009
    Chrysler Sebring 4-door with optional electronic stability control
    Dodge Avenger with optional electronic stability control
    Mercedes C class
    Subaru Legacy
    Subaru Outback
    Volkswagen Jetta sedan
    Volkswagen Passat sedan
    Volvo C30

    Small cars
    Honda Civic 4-door models (except Si) with optional electronic stability control
    Kia Soul
    Nissan Cube
    Subaru Impreza except WRX
    Volkswagen Golf 4-door

    Midsize SUVs
    Dodge Journey
    Subaru Tribeca
    Volvo XC60
    Volvo XC90

    Small SUVs
    Honda Element
    Jeep Patriot with optional side torso airbags
    Subaru Forester
    Volkswagen Tiguan

    I am surprised they put the C30 on that list and not the V50/S40 as they are all basically the same car.
    Ahh I see what happened the S40 needed to be able to handle four times its weight in the roof crush test and only made it to 3.92 times. The C30 while it uses the exact same platform is just a little lighter so it managed to get above four times its weight. - ry/
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    Accuracy is important.

    Not to once hopeful Presidential candidate Al Gore. Here is his statement on Conan. If Gore can be so far off on facts why should you hold us fellow posters to such a high standard of excellence. Toyota has recalled more than 3.8 million vehicles over the last 8 years. Many small recalls never make the news.

    Gore in an 11/12/09 interview on NBC’s tonight Show with Conan O’Brien, speaking on geothermal energy, champion of slide show science, can’t even get the temperature of earth’s mantle right, claiming “several million degrees” at “2 kilometers or so down”. Oh, and the “crust of the earth is hot” too.

    So accuracy is not as important as you claim. Only at tax time.
  • Huh


    Seriously what does Al Gore have to do with Toyota Recalls?

    I think that is going to be my new "and what does that have to do with the price of tea in China," meme.
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    The big winners this year are Ford (if you include Volvo), Subaru, and VW/Audi. Most of the others have only one or two winners with the exception of Chrysler -- but who would want to buy any those Mopars: Sebring/Avenger, Patriot, and Journey?

    Camry has one of the highest roof strength scores in all size classes (and good front and side ratings), but fell short in the non-life threatening rating, the rear crash (whiplash) rating. I'd pick a Camry over a Sebring in a second -- anyone else who'd really rather have Sebring? In the midsize car segment, the only class I'd look at, only the Subaru Legacy would be on my shopping list if I truly wanted one of the winners. I like the Volvo C30, but it's too pricey and seats only 4.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    Seriously what does Al Gore have to do with Toyota Recalls?

    Let me get back to you on that one. Just commenting on the stickler for accuracy comment. Since when does any blog site have standards of excellence? It would require a staff of at least 11 AP reporters to check everything we post for accuracy.

    None of us want to look ignorant. Though it does happen from time to time. Just a quick check tells me that Toyota has recalled over 5.15 million vehicles this year alone. Maybe someone knows of ones I have missed. Starting in January with 1.35 million cars with defective seat belts, that can cause a fire. Hmmm that is scary.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    I'm gratified to see that by leaving the Toyota brand this year (and going to Subaru) I stayed on the IIHS's top safety picks list....

    Toyota has to get back on the ball, although I'm surprised at some of the other omissions from the list - Honda Accord? Ford Fusion? Lots of manufacturers are dropping the ball it would seem. I wonder if this is another direct effect of excessive cost-cutting.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    No, it's not cost cutting. Manufacturers fell off because of the new roof tests. The Accord and Volvo S40 were very close to Good though, and along with the Fusion still earned Acceptable ratings. You can bet manufacturers will be working on this one, and some of the near-miss cars will be back on the list within a year.

    I've no doubt that if you went back to previous generation designs, the roofs would be weaker. Manufacturers have known for some time that the government would be strengthening the applicable safety standard, but they didn't know until early this year how high the IIHS would raise the bar.
  • Safety is one of the biggest reasons my wife and I both drive Subies now :)

    I don't think I have ever thought of Toyota being a leader in safety. Most of their offerings have better than average crash ratings but when I think safety, the first automaker that pop into my head are Volvo, the Germans (Merc, BMW, Audi), Ford and Subaru.
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