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Toyota on the mend?

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Comments

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    "super-legal"

    above legal speeds. Use of "super" would be like "super"script, e.g.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Take a deep breath and settle in. We're going to be here for a while.

    You know you love it. Edmund's has been dead since C4C. This gives it new life and new posters. More people discovering the top automotive website on the NET. :)

    This time Toyota suffers last time the tax payers.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    "We're going to be here for a while."

    Interesting that this is working out as I had felt from the beginning meaning there was a problem somewhere in firmware/software or something electrical affecting the computer.

    The discussions have firmed up now that we don't have screaming that there's nothing going on and it's just toyota haters posting bad things.

    How is that "kaizen" working out for toyota, I wonder.

    I spent much of today in the car and when I heard Ray laHood had openly said toyota owners shouldn't drive them, I knew he would have to retract that statement. That fits right in with Emanual's "f*#$&% retards" statement. It won't fit with the PC crowd.

    The problem is laHood is right. toyota put this off too long and dug themselves a little cesspool.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I thought the same thing about the LaHood statement. Do we know it was not planned that way? Will the retraction be as widely publicized as the original statement? I had this picture of 7 million Toyotas all headed to the various dealers en masse. :sick:

    I do feel for the decent Toyota dealers out there. And the people in the factories that are laid off while Toyota gets their act together.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    This gives it new life and new posters.

    It is nice to see the new posters. But Toyota buys ads from us so that could hurt if they have to shift ad money to legal. Not to mention all the employees they have in the US building cars and trucks who could get laid off. And all their US suppliers.

    After all, what's good for Toyota is good for the US, and vice versa, right? Same guy said "the price of progress is trouble". (Time)

    Of course, that same guy set the military back decades after he left GM to run DOD.

    I will be watching the stock. When Ford was written off, some of us bought in and doubled our money. You wouldn't know anything about that, would you? :D
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Up another quarter today. Best stock pick of my life. Up 561% since I bought in. As long as Toyota is flailing I think F is a safe haven.

    I do feel for the working stiffs screwed by this Toyota debacle. I hope the upper management is sweating blood.
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 526
    You are lucky to have had such a positive experience with your
    Toyota vehicles. Unfortunately there are many unlucky Toyota
    owners over the years who had sludged engines that siezed on
    them while driving, who have had truck frames rust to the point
    where their vehicles were undrivable, and who have been scared
    witless or worse when their cars went out of control.

    By the way I looked under my 4 year old Chevy Silverado and
    there isn't a hint of rust. It runs and rides great too.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Those owners are a small, albeit vocal, minority.

    You can't say "my Toyota had this problem so ALL TOYOTAS SUCK" and have that be a true statement.

    You can't even say, "Toyota had to recall x.xx million cars so ALL TOYOTAS SUCK" and have that be a true statement.

    All automakers have occasional quality and design problems. That's why the recall system was created.

    Anyone who negatively changes their mind about Toyota quality because of the current issue is making a mistake.
  • kenymkenym Member Posts: 405
    Unfortunately there are many unlucky Toyota
    owners over the years


    I believe this could be said for ALL vehicles produced. Both foreign and domestic. :sick:
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    Plenty of people, over the years, have had to listen to 'Your car is not a Toyota, so it sucks'. I don't have a Toyota, but i still enjoy the vehicles I own and drive.
    I don't mind Toyota taking one on the chin, but the mob mentality is a little scary.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >Plenty of people, over the years, have had to listen to 'Your car is not a Toyota, so it sucks'. I don't have a Toyota, but i still enjoy the vehicles I own and drive.

    Over the last few years some have spent much time and effort doing just that posting into the GM threads on this forum. They had free reign. I personally feel it's a case of what goes around comes around.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    But Toyota buys ads from us so that could hurt if they have to shift ad money to legal. Not to mention all the employees they have in the US building cars and trucks who could get laid off. And all their US suppliers.

    Well, according to posters on some of the GM boards, all of the profits go back to Japan, so Toyota's troubles couldn't hurt US jobs anyway, right? ;)
  • revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    List of vehicles affected by Toyota’s recall

    In an effort to help consumers, Leftlane has compiled an easy-to-read list of Toyota vehicles affected by the automaker’s pedal and floor mat recalls. If your vehicle is listed, make sure you contact Toyota or your local dealer to have the issue rectified.

    Should more vehicles be added to the recall, we’ll update this space. We’ve broken the list down into North American and European-market cars to best suit our audience, but it’s worth noting that other Toyotas across the globe have been recalled, as well. Some Toyotas intended for certain markets are also sold in limited quantities abroad. Again, if you have any questions, contact your local Toyota dealer for assistance.

    Key:
    P = Pedal recall only
    F = Floor mat recall only
    B = Both recalls apply

    Note: Some Toyota vehicles were assembled in both Japan and North America. Japanese-built cars, identified by a vehicle identification number (VIN) that begins with J, have not been recalled for sticking pedal issues. Some have been recalled for floor mats, however.

    North American market Toyotas affected by recall
    Avalon (2005-2010) – B
    Camry (2007-2010, except Hybrid, J VIN) – B
    Camry (2007-2010 J VIN) – F
    Camry Hybrid (2007-2010) – F
    Corolla (2009-2010) – B
    Highlander (2008-2010, except Hybrid, J VIN) – B
    Highlander (2008-2010 J VIN) – F
    Highlander Hybrid (2008-2010) – F
    Matrix (2009-2010) – B
    Prius (2004-2009) – F
    RAV4 (2009-2010) – P
    Sequoia (2008-2010) – P
    Tacoma (2005-2010) – F
    Tundra (2007-2010) - B
    Venza (2009-2010) – F

    European market Toyotas affected by pedal recall
    Toyota’s United Kingdom office announced a pedal recall only for a number of European-market Toyotas. Check your vehicle’s build date (found on a sticker located in the driver’s door well) to verify when your car was assembled.

    AYGO manual transmission (2/2005-8/2009)
    iQ (11/2008-11/2009)
    Yaris (11/2005-9/2009)
    Auris (10/2006-1/2010)
    Corolla (10/2006-12/2009)
    Verso (2/2009-1/2010)
    Avensis (11/2008-12/2009)

    Non-Toyota products affected by pedal and/or floor mat recall
    Citroen C1 (2/2005-8/2009) – P
    Peugeot 107 (2/2005-8/2009) – P
    Pontiac Vibe (2009-2010) – B
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think my favorite bumper sticker of all time fits this situation:

    My Karma Just ran over your Dogma
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    prior: "super-legal"

    your response: above legal speeds.

    So "super-illegal" is above illegal speeds? :D The author is a maroon, face it!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I've always received excellent customer service at both my Cadillac and Buick dealers. Their customer service and vehicles are top-drawer! The most surly service I received was at a VW and a Chrysler dealer.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >maroon

    Errrr, maroon is a dark shade of red. Might you mean "moron"?

    Now with this diversion from serious disagreement, back to the discussion.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    WASHINGTON (AP) - Americans should park their recalled Toyotas unless driving to dealers for accelerator repairs, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood warned Wednesday - then quickly took it back - as skepticism of company fixes grew and the government's probe expanded to other models in the U.S. and Japan. Questions now are being raised about the brakes on Toyota's marquee Prius hybrid.

    The Prius was not part of the most recent recall, but Japan's transport ministry ordered the company to investigate complaints of brake problems with the hybrid. LaHood said his department, too, was looking into brake problems. About 100 complaints over Prius brakes have been filed in the U.S. and Japan.

    Harried dealers began receiving parts to repair defective gas pedals in millions of vehicles and said they'd be extending their hours deep into the night to try and catch up. Toyota said that would solve the problem - which it said was extremely rare - of cars unaccountably accelerating.

    At a congressional hearing, LaHood said his advice to an owner of a recalled Toyota would be to "stop driving it. Take it to a Toyota dealer because they believe they have a fix for it." His comments prompted new questions and rattled Toyota stockholders, causing shares to plunge 8 percent before they recovered, declining 6 percent for the day.

    LaHood later told reporters, "What I said in there was obviously a misstatement. What I meant to say ... was if you own one of these cars or if you're in doubt, take it to the dealer and they're going to fix it."

    Adding to Toyota's woes, LaHood said his department had received new complaints about electronics and would undertake a broad review, looking beyond Toyota vehicles, into whether automobile engines could be disrupted by electromagnetic interference caused by power lines or other sources. Toyota has said it investigated for electronic problems and failed to find a single case pointing that direction.

    Toyota Motor Corp., in a statement, said if owners were experiencing problems with the accelerator pedal "please contact your dealer without delay. If you are not experiencing any issues with your pedal, we are confident that your vehicle is safe to drive."

    But the damage was done for many drivers.

    Meredyth Waterman, who bought a 2010 Toyota Corolla in December, said the alarming statements from Washington confused her and she planned to wait until her dealer told her to come get the fix to bring her car in for repairs.

    "If it is largely believed to be a rare instance, why would he tell people to stop driving their cars?" asked Waterman, of Burrillville, R.I. "It was an irresponsible thing to say."

    The confusion came as the world's No. 1 automaker dealt with fresh probes in the U.S. and Japan over the Prius, the best-selling gas-electric hybrid, and growing interest from congressional and other government investigators. Toyota has shut down several new vehicle assembly lines and is rushing parts to dealers to fix problems with the accelerators, trying to preserve a reputation of building safe, durable vehicles.

    Since October, Toyota first recalled about 5 million vehicles over problems with floor mats trapping gas pedals and now, in a recall announced Jan. 21, some 2.3 million vehicles amid concerns that gas pedals could become stuck or slow to return to the idle position. The latest recall involves 2009-10 RAV4 crossovers, 2009-10 Corollas, 2009-10 Matrix hatchbacks, 2005-10 Avalons, 2007-10 Camrys, 2010 Highlander crossovers, 2007-10 Tundra pickups and 2008-10 Sequoia SUVs.

    Lawmakers who are now digging into the recalls said they would also look into the Prius. Rep. Bart Stupak, chairman of the House Energy and Commerce investigative subcommittee, said his panel would request a briefing from Toyota officials about the hybrid.

    New York Rep. Edolphus Towns, chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, sought more information about the acceleration issue from Yoshi Inaba, chairman and CEO of Toyota Motor North America and asked the question on the minds of Toyota owners: "Is it safe to drive the Toyota models that have been recalled?"

    Towns' committee, which is planning a Feb. 10 hearing, also wants more details on how Toyota handled complaints about pedal entrapment, reports of stuck accelerators and electrical problems. Other panels in the House and Senate also are planning hearings.

    Many consumer groups have questioned whether Toyota's fix will work and have asserted it could be connected to problems with the electronic throttle control systems.

    Joan Claybrook, who formerly lead Public Citizen, a watchdog group, noted that Toyota told owners during last year's recall to remove floor mats to keep the accelerator pedal from becoming jammed. "I don't think that's what the issue is. I think it has to be electronic when it slam dunks and takes off and goes 120 miles an hour," Claybrook said.

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, meanwhile, asked CTS, the Indiana company that made the pedals behind Toyota's latest recall, if the same problem could exist for other automakers. CTS makes pedals for Honda, Nissan and a small number of Ford vehicles in China, but the auto supplier has said the issues are limited to Toyota alone.

    LaHood, who plans to speak with Toyota President Akio Toyoda about the recalls, said the government is considering civil penalties against the carmaker. But he also said that it appeared "Toyota is making an all-out effort to do all that they can to fix these cars."

    The Obama administration has been forced to backtrack on several statements during its first year, though LaHood's warning was particularly striking.

    Last year, when LaHood suggested the administration consider taxing motorists based on how many miles they drive instead of how much gasoline they buy, his comments were quickly rejected by the White House. Vice President Joe Biden triggered a day of backtracking after publicly swearing off trains and planes because of swine flu worries.

    LaHood's comments irked many dealers, who have been fielding calls from nervous customers for days. Most dealers are just getting the parts, a steel shim a couple of millimeters thick, to be inserted in the pedal assembly to address potential friction that could cause the pedal to stick.

    The secretary "has the best of intentions, but unfortunately we can't fix 100 cars at the same time," said Adam Lee, head of Lee Auto Malls and owner of a Toyota dealership in Topsham, Maine. "I'm sure he has the best of intentions but it may not be very constructive for us."

    Earl Stewart, who owns a Toyota dealership in North Palm Beach, Fla., said LaHood's comments "could instill panic." Stewart was expecting to begin making repairs - at half an hour per vehicle - later Wednesday.

    "We're leaving our service department open 'til the last customer tonight," he said. "After Ray LaHood's statement, it might
  • 2012aveo2012aveo Member Posts: 43
    Actually I have had a positive experience with both a 1990 Toyota Celica (still own) and 1981 Buick Regal ( traded for 2001 Mercedes C240) both bought new by my family and owned for 20 years. Sometimes I wonder if there are any other posters on Edmunds that have owned both a Toyota and GM car for 20 or more years and love them both like I do.

    There are many unlucky Toyota owners with sludge engines, transmission hesitation, and acceleration/ cruise control issues from about 1998 to 2010. But I think over those years and the decades before, there are probably more satisfied Toyota owners that did not have any of those problems. If the above problems were more prevalent, I am sure word of mouth would have reduced Toyota's market share considerably.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    The most surly service I received was at a VW and a Chrysler dealer.

    I don't have Chrysler experience, but surly at VW I can confirm.

    Of course the Mercury dealer also added a bunch of cr%p work to the routine maintenance for our van, yet didn't even flush the coolant or change the air filter like the schedule required. They invented their own maintenance schedule and ripped me off for it. But they had a nice attitude. :mad:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Have the Toyota workers been laid-off? I haven't heard anything about it but I assumed Toyota wouldn't have them standing idle in the factories all day or sweeping the floors.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    My co-worker has a 2001 Chevrolet Silverado with over 100K+ on it and he tells me he really loves the truck.
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    My worst experience was at a Buick dealership...Best were at Honda/toyota.
    And in luxury,Lexus was the best...So what`s the point ?? :D
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    I have owned Toyotas and driven a million miles on them...Saturn was the worst car I had So my experience says Toyota is the best and GM is the worst !! :shades:
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Errrr, maroon is a dark shade of red. Might you mean "moron"?

    I guess you weren't a fan of Bugs Bunny? Ring a carrot now? :D That's All Folks !!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Yeah, but Toyota would arrogantly proclaim their reliability, quality, fuel economy, and resale value and were unquestioningly supported by large following of fanboys and publications like CR that worshiped them like they were a god. Toyota had a cult of personality that made Josef Stalin look modest. They put on this magnificent aura of invincibility and infallibility and now look like the holier-than-thou televangelist who was caught in a motel room with an underage boy. Toyota was the gleaming diamond-encrusted golden idol that was finally knocked-off its towering pedestal and revealed to be quite ordinary and vulnerable. The gold was really 10K electroplate. The diamonds are glass.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    And you've owned 2 vehicles in your life? But worst and best infers 3+.
    I don't care if Toyota service people shine my shoes, and the car doesn't even wear out its tires ... it's as boring as eating cold spaghetti w/no sauce each morning for breakfast.

    I'm neither pro or con Toyota. But if this whole issue could be made-up and blown out of proportion, I think it would have happened years ago. Why would Toyota's enemies wait so long, to implement a smear-campaign if they could? If it was simply a smear-campaign against Toyota then you wouldn't see Toyota recalling cars and apologizing. If you were accused of robbing a bank, and you didn't do it, would you be apologizing and giving $ to the bank?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Oh oh. I just had my Mercury Grand Marquis LS in for service. I hope they didn't screw me. Well, they were very nice about it.
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    Maroon also can mean a loud firework.
    Now, what topic are we on?

    Mick
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Are you talking about Steve Wozniak's bogus conplaint?

    Do you only consider blogs you agree with as credible. I know you like to denigrate sources you disagree with in the media. So who is to say that Woz would not have his Prius in the EU where they have reasonable speed limits on many highways? The fact is the Cruise control is not operating properly. If it continues raising the speed when you let off on the control. With the shaky brakes on the Prius, not having a decent speed control adds to the danger. Maybe you can give us your theory on what Woz, a big time proponent, of the Prius has to gain by complaining to Toyota. Is it just possible he is trying to save Toyota from further embarrassment, and they are TOO STUPID to figure that out? That would be my guess.
  • kenymkenym Member Posts: 405
    Well, according to posters on some of the GM boards, all of the profits go back to Japan, so Toyota's troubles couldn't hurt US jobs anyway, right?

    This sort of mentality from some of the posters on the GM boards and other boards are probably why our Country is in sooo much trouble today. :sick:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    Back in November or December when I was searching the internet for acceleration problems, I found a link about another eastern country forcing toyota to fix the brakes on the Prius. There was something about an auxiliary pump to power the brakes and it failed in some way. I assume when running in electric mode, the brake vacuum is supplemented or are the brakes hydraulic on the Prius. There was a problem with that pump. I seem to recall that the country said they couldn't sell the cars there until that pump or problem was fixed. Talk about deja vu.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I've had many GM vehicles as has my wife. I was really surprised at how clean and modern and how professional the personnel and service was at the Chevrolet dealer from which she bought her 2001 Impala. The place could've shamed the dealerships of most upscale makes.

    Never owned a Toyota so I can't really tell you how good or bad their cars or service are, but the sales experience is absolutely awful! I foolishly went with my girlfriend who is now my wife to look at a Camry and the salesmen were like sharks and barracudas zeroing in on a wounded bleeding seal. If we ever considered a Toyota, we would never again based on that experience alone. My co-worker, who owns a Honda, told me he had a similar experience at a different Toyota dealer.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I would trust Woz if he said something was wonky with the car's software or firmware. The man is practically a software guru. What has he to gain by downing Toyota? It isn't as if Priuses are built by Microsoft. Shoot, maybe Toyota should work with him to find out if the problem is really a software/firmware issue?
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    maybe Toyota should work with him to find out if the problem is really a software/firmware issue?

    Totally agree. Woz is a self made millionaire who doesn't need money from Toyota. He also is a proven computer guy. While the dealer can't drive it above posted speed limits, maybe Toyota should take it to a test track and see what's going on (and maybe do this in a hurry!!!).
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The NHTSA has been unusually critical of Toyota in this go-round of recall bashing.

    Obama officials step up pressure on Toyota (MSNBC)

    Surely it has nothing to do with this:

    "The US on Wednesday criticised guidelines issued by Japan for its “cash for clunkers” programme, as a disagreement over American carmakers’ access to the plan flared up again.

    Ron Kirk, US trade representative, said he was “disappointed” with Japan’s decision to judge the eligibility of US cars according to their emissions in city traffic only, instead of combined city and highway traffic. This, Mr Kirk said, would “limit the number of US auto models that qualify” for the programme."

    Fresh spat over ‘cash for clunkers’ scheme (Financial Times)
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Yep, have to agree with you that Woz has no motive to go after Totyota, and he's an expert. The reporter of that article 20-or-so posts ago looks foolish. He might as well go tell the world, that Peyton Manning doesn't know how to read a defense; or that Mario Andretti can't tell when a suspension is setup right.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Typically, Toyota will use down time in its factories for staff training, and I'm sure this time is no exception. It is highly unlikely that for a 10-day stoppage it would have laid anyone off.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Up another quarter today. Best stock pick of my life. Up 561% since I bought in. As long as Toyota is flailing I think F is a safe haven.

    Just remember you are buying stock in a company that is 30 billion dollars in debt. That said, I am enjoying the run up as well.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Interesting that this is working out as I had felt from the beginning meaning there was a problem somewhere in firmware/software or something electrical affecting the computer.

    And how are you so sure of this? Just because most posters are speculating the same thing?
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    they must mean that because of speculation that some of these people complaining of SUA had no floor mats in their cars at all. And so...then it could be the software discomboobulating somewhere, or, the floor pedal malfunctioning.

    So then why are they skipping over the possiblity that it's their accelerator pedal, then? Do some people already have the new pedals, perhaps not the brake-override system(they shouldn't have this yet, right?)and no mats on their floor and they're still getting crazy SUA?

    So that is leading the people investigating to think that Toyota software/ECU's might be at falut?

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Do you only consider blogs you agree with as credible. I know you like to denigrate sources you disagree with in the media.

    I have been reading The Truth About Cars (ttac.com) for at least 4 years now, and I find them to be a very credible source, and I DON'T agree with them on every issue. I would put TTAC on the same level as Edmunds.

    Yes, I have been bashing Sean Kane and his company (SRS) as a bunch of ambulance chasers that only compile complaints about cars from consumers, the media, and NHTSA. They don't do crash investigations, and seemingly just take all complaints at face value. They are the source of the number of deaths from sudden acceleration at 19. I'm still waiting for someone to defend them and their methodology. (They're not a media outlet in any case, in the typical sense of the word.)

    Woz is just latching on to the hysteria by whining about his Prius' cruise control and getting himself some free publicity. I'm sure he has the dough to get the cruise or the whole car replaced. Kind of hypocritical to buy a gas-saving vehicle and then go faster than any legal limit in the country. (I don't believe he lives near Utah or west Texas to be in those 80 mph zones, where 83 mph would be within "tolerance.")

    And do you really think he ships his Prius over to Europe when he goes there? C'mon Gary, you can do better than that!

    Also, the brake problems are for the new-gen 2010 Prius only.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Yes, some complaining of sudden acceleration have said that their floor mats were out. But the gas pedal stiction could have caused the issue. I believe the stiction recall begins tomorrow, and the floormat redesign/gas pedal shortening just started a few weeks ago.

    So there hasn't been time for anyone to have had sudden acceleration AFTER both recalls have been performed. I think all the speculation that it must be the soft/firm/hardware is routed in people's bad experiences with their Microsoft-based home or work computers
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Colorfully stated, but definitely exaggerated.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Woz is just latching on to the hysteria by whining

    Bloomberg says Woz owns four Priuses, but doesn't say where they are parked.

    Some sites just say he owns four "Toyotas".
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Also, the brake problems are for the new-gen 2010 Prius only.

    Woz has 4 Prius. The one he is complaining about is a 2010 model. He is a greenie that promotes hybrids. I don't think he would do anything to harm the hybrid market. I just disagree with your premise. That he has no business going that fast. What difference does it make if the vehicle does not work properly at speed. By your logic cars should be governed to 80 MPH. And do you know if he owns a Prius in Europe? He could surely afford a home and a car over there. The reporter sounded like a jealous kid when someone has something they don't have. Like lots of money.

    I don't like my Sequoia lurching at idle. I keep my foot on the brake at all times when stopped as that is a trait with Toyotas I am told. Something to do with the AC kicking on. I would like for them to fix that. I'm not holding my breath or beating down their door. I have better things to do than hang out at a Toyota service center only to be told that is the way the vehicle is designed. Same for the NAV/CD player, Hydraulic tail gate lifts and junky OEM tires.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Repeating it over and over

    And that's what tipped us off. Not only is the 2010 Prius not subject to the accelerator pedal recall, but every report of accelerator behavior has essentially said that it was a random occurence.

    Instead, we think Woz didn't understand how Toyota's adaptive cruise system worked. Because we didn't either, when we first tested the car. Neither did an auto-industry friend of ours who asked to remain anonymous. Here's what he wrote [edited slightly for clarity]:

    Ohhhhh, this happened to ME!

    It's the way the cruise control in their hybrid cars works. I was driving the Lexus HS250h we tested, and I set the laser distance cruise control.

    Accelerating in 5-mph increments

    In every other car I've driven that has cruise control, when you press "ACCEL", it accelerates your vehicle for as long as you hold the button down. And it stops when you reach the speed you want and let go of the button or paddle.

    But not so, this Toyota system. As you hold the button down, a tiny little electronic counter in the gauge cluster is SETTING YOUR SPEED. With each click up or down, it sets it 1 mph faster or slower.

    But if you hold it down, it changes to increasing your speed in 5-MPH INCREMENTS. So as you hold it down at 55 mph, thinking you'll let go at 70 mph when you're at the speed you want, the system is in fact rapidly increasing your target speed.

    From 70 to 115 mph

    By the time you're at 70 mph and you let go of the button, the computer has set your cruise control speed at 115 mph. And it's now rapidly accelerating you to that speed!

    I had to have my passenger look in the owners manual while I was driving to see what I was doing wrong. I tried it a couple times before I realized what it was doing. I mentioned this later to [a Toyota executive]. He just quietly nodded, and looked perturbed...

    If we had to guess, we suspect Toyota will find that Woz's 2010 Prius works exactly as it's designed to do. It's just that its cruise control is designed to act in a way that's different to most others, and hard to interpret unless you focus on the digital speed indicator.


    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,584730,00.html

    Does that sound like a good design to anyone here? It does not to me. Why change something that has worked well for people for 30 or more years?
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    That sounds like the transition from analog to digital (throttle cable to computer-controlled throttle) to me - it used to be they had no option but for the cruise to work that way, but now in the computer-controlled age they can make it behave in lots of different ways.

    It's a bad idea for it to work that way, and I certainly wouldn't want my cruise to work that way. But I don't like ANY adaptive cruise. I will stick with good ol' DUMB cruise, thank you very much. ;-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    They could improve cruise control by allowing the car to slow down as it climbs a hill. I hate the way they downshift and waste a ton of gas keeping up to the set speed. I rarely use mine in the hills. Just long flat straight stretches to give my leg a rest.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Do you only consider blogs you agree with as credible. I know you like to denigrate sources you disagree with in the media. So who is to say that Woz would not have his Prius in the EU where they have reasonable speed limits on many highways? The fact is the Cruise control is not operating properly. If it continues raising the speed when you let off on the control. With the shaky brakes on the Prius, not having a decent speed control adds to the danger. Maybe you can give us your theory on what Woz, a big time proponent, of the Prius has to gain by complaining to Toyota. Is it just possible he is trying to save Toyota from further embarrassment, and they are TOO STUPID to figure that out? That would be my guess.

    Wozniak designed the hardware AND wrote the software on the Apple II. He also designed a single chip floppy controller, something that people said couldn't be done, affectionately known as the IWM (Integrated Woz Machine). I'll trust his judgment on electronic control systems. :shades:
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