Toyota on the mend?

210delray · February 2010

I think enough people have tried flooring the accelerator and then shifting immediately into neutral. No problems were found. I've tried it at 60 mph on my 2004 Camry, admittedly only while cruising, and it slips easily into neutral. I think panic was a big factor in the fatal crash.

Also requiring a 3 second or more push on the start button to turn the car _off_ is not logical. I read someone post that another vehicle brand has the off occuring if the button is tapped three times.

Two things: I read that Toyota will be incorporating the 3x tap solution for future vehicles with ignition push buttons. The question though is if 3 taps are more logical.

Also, I had previously reported that a read of the new Buick LaCrosse owner's manual made no mention of how to switch off the optional push-button ignition in an emergency situation while driving down the road. (The CX model we had at work had a conventional key, so I couldn't test it.)

dturr · February 2010

Hey my neighbour has struck a deal with his local dealer. He will lease a vehicle if they swap out the pedals getting shut of the CTS assembly and they agreed.
He would not do a deal with shims and stuck to his demand.

jeny08 · February 2010

I've experienced automatic full brake for seconds at the middle of the road while driving for just a gentle touch of my feet to the pedal. It sank for seconds then bounce back!!! I submitted the car for 2 days test but didn't come out. I'm driving Toyota Yaris 2008. My husband who's driving for more than 30 years experienced it too. I owned the car for one and a half year and submitted the said car twice for testing for 2 reasons: First, just like someone pulling the car back while driving... it became very slow, Toyota returned it ok. They said they didn't fix anything. Means can fix the problem, just use it again and again and it will turn okay? Second, pedal sank for seconds automatically then back to its normal position. As I said they didn't see a problem. I also got 5 yrs old Isuzu car but didn't experience yet any problem aside from change oil. Philippines is not included to the said recall. What will I do to my car? Sell, to pass the problem to someone else?

graphicguy · February 2010

imid....at 60 MPH, you're traveling 88'/sec. Let's say that each "button push" takes one second. That's traveling 264 feet before the engine stops. Then, you have to apply the brakes (which will have no power assist since the engine's off)...HARD, which will take another....oh...I dunno...another 150', maybe? Let's be generous and say it's going to take you longer than a football field to stop a vehicle suffering from UA (that is, if you're expecting it, and if you don't panic, which you probably will). That's if you're traveling in a straight line. If not, you won't have any steering since it's likely the steering wheel will hit the interlock, allowing no movement of it....unless, there's another button push that allows the steering wheel not to lock.

That's only if you only have UA up until 60 MPH...above that? Thing get even scarier than they already are.

Sylvia · February 2010

Just a heads up in case you need to file a complaint about your Toyota with NHTSA, here you go http://bit.ly/NHTSA

xlu · February 2010

In Jan 2010, GM beats Toyota in the sales volume in several key segments previously held by Toyota:

Family cars
Chevrolet Malibu: 16439
Toyota Camry: 15792

Crossover SUVs
Chevrolet Equinox: 9513
Toyota RAV4: 7894
(GMC Terrain: 4302
Note Equinox alone beats RAV4; GMC Terrain which is the same SUV adds additional sales)

Luxury cars
Buick LaCross: 4246
Lexus ES: 2923

anythngbutgm · February 2010

link title

Retail sales, including other brands, in the U.S. were 104,122 during the month. This represents a 10 percent decline from a year ago, driven by other brand sales  Pontiac, Saturn, Saab and HUMMER  that were 90 percent lower.

GM dealers delivered 42,703 fleet vehicles, comprising 29 percent of total deliveries for the month.

Fleet Sales Save Industry

But it's important to note the mix here: Retail sales of Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet and GMC were up just 3 percent; in other words, surging fleet sales provided the majority of the good news at General Motors, buoyed by continuing impressive numbers in the midsize crossover segment.

lemko · February 2010

Man, some people will spin something bad about Toyota into something good and something good about GM into something bad.

anythngbutgm · February 2010

No spin, just keeping things straight.

Some people on here can exaggerate the situation going on at Toyota, others are exaggerating Government Motors comeback.

Just putting things into proper perspective. :shades:

graphicguy · February 2010

xlu.....thanks for looking up the numbers. I suspect that Honda, Nissan, Hyndai probably Ford could steal marketshare, too. This could continue for awhile. Hope that Toyota turns the corner at some point. Competition is always good.

smarty666 · February 2010

those numbers only look good from GM compared to Toyota, Nissan and Honda both did better in sales in Jan then GM:

Nissan Altima: 18,636
Honda Accord: 20,759

Honda CR-V still beat Equinox by a couple units 9,672

Plus Buick to me is an oddity; GM only had 3 models at the time of bankruptcy with Buick and once loaded up they intrude into several Cadillac model price ranges; Cadillac is GMs true luxury division, not Buick; GM should have gotten rid of Buick and kept Pontiac so that GM could have a sport division which could compete with the likes of Scion and others!

and keep in mind that the cars from Infiniti, Lexus, and Acura are typically several thousand more in price then Buicks and simply on economic principals, and especially the way the economy is, more people can afford to buy Buicks, since their prices are cheaper than a Infiniti, Lexus, and Acura

Here is the better comparison to see how GM compares in the luxury car segment:

Jan 2010: Luxury Cars
CTS: 2,565
MKZ: 1,340
G37: 2,680
ES350: 2,923
TL: 1,986
Genesis:1,670
3-Series: 5,418
C-Class: 4,028
A4: 2,763

So as you can see, GM is doing better than some but most of the Japanese and German companies are far ahead in luxury sales still then GM is!

graphicguy · February 2010

I think the full effect of this as far as shifting marketshare hasn't even begun to shake out where it will finally settle for a while yet.

I've seen prognosticators state that Toyota will lose 5% of the total marketshare. I've seen some say 4%. Fact is, everybody's looking into a crystal ball, but no one knows for sure.

I think it's fair to say that some of that marketshare will go to competitors. Who gets what is anyone's guess, though.

I doubt Toyota will lay down and let it be taken without a fight (or at least, they shouldn't). I expect at some point, they'll launch some sort of campaign to stem the tide of that erosion. Just some ideas...maybe extending their warranties, steep discounts in the form of "loyalty" bonuses, etc.

They'll have to do something to get bodies back into dealerships, though.

kenym · February 2010

Buick is really big in China. I think that's the market GM is really going after with Buick..

smarty666 · February 2010

don't get me wrong, I had two Buicks, years and years ago, and the new models are certainly nice looking but I just have never equated luxury with Buick; when I think of luxury and GM I think of Cadillac first!

xlu · February 2010

Just putting things into proper perspective

In China, now the largest auto market in the world, GM, which has been the No. 1 in market share, saw its Jan 2010 sales grew 97% over Jan 2009 to 219k cars! Ford also doubled its sales in Jan.

At the mean time, Toyota cars fell out of the Top 10 list in China.

smarty666 · February 2010

well, you would have expected that, right now Toyota is falling from grace almost everywhere and like graphicguy said, its going to take a while and aggressive campaigning by Toyota if they are to ever pick themselves back up again

I think for the immediate future, Ford, GM, Hyundai, and Nissan are going to benefit the greatest from Toyota's problems, in regards to sales, market share, etc!

xlu · February 2010

I just have never equated luxury with Buick; when I think of luxury and GM I think of Cadillac first!

A few years ago GM decided to use Buick as a luxury brand to compete the cars like Lexus which emphasis comfort and refinement over the sporty handling; and to use Cadillac as a luxury brand to compete with European cars like BMW which emphasis the sporty handling over the comfort and refinement.

Buick LaCross and Cadillac CTS are the exact results of that strategy. Buick LaCross exceeded Lexus in refinement; several magazines said the term "Lexus quiet" now being replaced by "Buick quiet". Cadillac CTS also won many comparisons against BMW 3 or even 5 series and praised for its superb handling.

smarty666 · February 2010

I think you just prove my point, if you load up the LaCross even a little bit, you'll be well into the low to mid 30k's, which is CTS territory; a fully loaded Lacross with all the bell and whistles is like 38-39k dollars; that is a lot of money for a Buick when for that price you can be in a well equipped CTS and now your in a true luxury brand, CADILLAC!

it doesn't make sense to me why GM would spend money to have two cars that compete for the same things; get rid of the Buick and spend all your money marketing and enhancing the CTS; the new CTS, and the rest of the Cadillac line are more then enough for GM to compete with BMW, MB, Infiniti, Lexus and all the other luxury brands!!

I have sat and driven in the new Buick LaCross and while its a nice car I did not feel it surpassed Acura or Lexus in regard to refinement or quality; my test car had several squeaks/rattles, and a few misaligned body panels and gaps; one piece of cheap plastic on the center console was even loose; I found none of this when I test drove a ES350! now, when I test drove a CTS, that was a whole other Beast, it was 10x more fun and much better refined than the LaCross and I enjoyed driving it much more than the ES350; there were no squeaks/rattles in the CTS basin, no gaps or misaligned body panels; plus, the ES350 and LaCross can't even touch the kick [non-permissible content removed] sporty exterior body style that the CTS has!

I realize all this is subjective and personal taste but that is how I feel after driving them

xlu · February 2010

I guess everyone is different. If everyone is a big BMW fan like you and I am, no one would buy Japanese cars (except probably the Infinity G37). I think GM is trying to use two brands to hit two distinguished different crowds.

revit · February 2010

Toyota thought they came up with a fix for one of there many safety issues they are having. They tried to fix the Sudden Acceleration issue with linking it to the pedals, but as we all know, that is only part or none of the problem. Therefore, Toyota will be retrofitting all Toyota's built in the last 5 years.

Here is an example of the 2010 Toyota Camry:

anythngbutgm · February 2010

ROFLMAFAO!!!!

Thanks for the Friday afternoon laughs man! That just made my week!

houdini1 · February 2010

Gotta hand it to Toyota. Where can I get one ?

anythngbutgm · February 2010

Coutesy of Edmunds :shades:

Complaints

smarty666 · February 2010

I don't think that would fit in my garage now :P

driver56 · February 2010

SWEEEEET!!! THANKS FOR THE LAUGH REVIT!

Mick

xlu · February 2010

Check out this Chinese vehicle; it yields infinity mile per gallon!

driver56 · February 2010

Ya' still have to feed it though.

smarty666 · February 2010

I was just reading an article on Car and Driver about this whole Toyota Circus and they had this picture on there that made me laugh when I saw it and I'd thought you guys would enjoy it as well

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/news/car/10q1/toyota_- - recall_scandal_media_circus_and_stupid_drivers-editorial/3216752-4-eng-US/toyota- - _recall_scandal_media_circus_and_stupid_drivers_-_editorial_cd_articlesmall.jpg">link title

here is a link to the article as well if anyone wants to read it; I think it puts a lot of things in perspective and describes a little bit of what might happen to Toyota because of their problems!

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/10q1/toyota_recall_scandal_media_circus_and- _stupid_drivers-editorial

poncho167 · February 2010

Hopefully the trend will continue because those vehicles that knocked Toyota off the top of those segments are better vehicles.

I hope they tank because what comes around goes around. I still wonder why American's support Japanese companies when we have as good or better here. Lazy dumb American's I guess. If they only knew where their money was going - Japan.

Yes, I know that people will get upset about my comments but I don't care because this is a great time to exploit this company who has tricked the public all these years and now the truth is starting to come out on how American politiicians have been protecting this Japanese company because they have vested interests to protect. Sort of like our former president who went into an illegal war and made a lot of money with stock based in construction, weapons, oil, and who knows what else.

Love it!

andres3 · February 2010

Let's say that each "button push" takes one second.

You obviously have not played any video games, it should only take you about .4 seconds to push a button three times (less than half a second).

Also, panic is driver error and unacceptable for drivers to panic on our roads.

andres3 · February 2010

No suprise on the list of most complaints for each car company.

Land Rover being #1 in complaints makes sense based on the bad word of mouth I've heard about that company. They are #1 to avoid. Chrysler has a lot of complaints too I see..... Honda and Toyota are tops. I don't get Mercedes though, if you factor in Chrysler complaints, maybe they should, it hasn't been that long they were the same group. I know I won't buy a Mercedes due to their former associations with Chrysler.

mnf · February 2010

Interesting lets wait and see I am sure there is some kind of cover up going on lets see someone can copy and paste pictures go along with the graphs.

revit · February 2010

Toyota to expand disclosure amid pressure on CEO

Toyota said today it's planning a new level of disclosure about car problems beyond what the automaker is legally required to reveal as it seeks to rebuild consumer trust.

The move comes amid intensifying pressure for the automaker's president Akio Toyoda to testify before the U.S. Congress about safety lapses at hearings scheduled later this month. Presently, the highest-ranking company executive slated to attend the hearing is Toyota's North American head, Yoshimi Inaba.

Experts say it's vital that Toyoda appear at the Washington hearings to reverse the perception that the company has been slow to recognize and tackle the safety problems that have led it to recall 8.5 million vehicles.

imidazol97 · February 2010

It sounds to me that toyota has decided to quit testing how little they have to actually admit to the government, or to the drivers of their cars, about what isn't right with them. It's like a CPA I used long ago. He talked about the gray area in tax rules and said he usually tests the lower limits of how things can be handled. Then it's up to the gov to show that those don't work.

Toyota got caught. Now they want to show how well they can do. Hmmmmmm.

graphicguy · February 2010

revit...I'm just wondering what Mr Toyoda is going to say, that he hasn't already said?

"Yeah, most of our cars have problems. Yeah, we've got some serious safety problems with UA and braking issues. Yeah, we're trying to fix them as fast as we can. Yeah, we're sorry."

Other than that, what more would they want to know?

Maybe take their pound of flesh from him? But, the recalls have already drained a sizable chunk out of Toyota's cash reserves....and will continue to as at least some of the myriad of lawsuits will drain them even more.

Toyota's reputation is shot all to hell. If they ever get back to where they once were, it's going to take years. Everybody's going to be watching them like a hawk, consumers, gov't agencies, etc to see if they do indeed keep to their promise of building safer, higher quality vehicles.

So, what more do they want?

revit · February 2010

Toyota mulls fixes for more vehicles amid pickup recall

Toyota said Friday it will consider upgrading more of its older vehicles with software designed to override the accelerator pedal if the brake is pushed and will also review complaints of sudden acceleration in its Tacoma pickups.

The news came as Toyota announced yet another recall, this time for drive shafts in 8,000 Tacoma pickups.

The pledges from the Japanese automaker came in response to questions from the U.S. House Oversight committee, which is scheduled to hold the first congressional hearing on the automaker's recent recalls on Feb. 24.

Toyota has been under fire after issuing four recalls and expanding a fifth over a few weeks, topping 8 million vehicles worldwide.

Meanwhile Friday, Toyota dealers in metro Detroit began offering an additional $250 to $500 in rebates to keep current customers and pare swollen inventories as the automaker continues repairing about 50,000 gas pedals nationwide every day.

So-called customer loyalty rebates on 2010 Corolla and Camry models increased to $1,750, effective Friday, said Mike LaFontaine, owner of LaFontaine Toyota in Dearborn.

In other Toyota news:

 Inventories of certain recalled models more than doubled from the end of December to the end of January, according to Ward's Automotive Reports. Ward's found that Toyota dealers had an average of 100 days' supply of the Camry sedan as of Jan. 31, up from 40 days a month earlier.

imidazol97 · February 2010

>The news came as Toyota announced yet another recall, this time for drive shafts in 8,000 Tacoma pickups

That Kaizen they implement in their factories and the whole business must not be working very well.

>in metro Detroit began offering an additional $250 to $500 in rebates to keep current customers and pare swollen inventories as the automaker continues repairing about 50,000 gas pedals nationwide every day.
>So-called customer loyalty rebates on 2010 Corolla and Camry models increased to $1,750, effective Friday, said Mike LaFontaine, owner of LaFontaine Toyota in Dearborn.

So as a few criticize other companies for offering discounts to toyota owners who don't want more of the same, it's okay for toyota to swell their discounts?

I recall back around the turn of the century when people bragged about how toyota and Honda didn't have to have any discounts because they were so _good_. At least there weren't any that were public, because it seems there were dealer incentives that allowed dealers to pass a dollar or two on to the end customer if they felt like it. If they didn't feel like it, the dealer could just keep the whole discount and the customer paid full freight if they were willing.

Oh what a feeling.

graphicguy · February 2010

revit....just saw that about the Tacoma recall. Everything that's happened in the last several weeks points to some fundamental flaws in Toyota's engineering depts, and the processes that were once ballyhood in the way they build their vehicles. They're going to have to reassess everything, from top to bottom, in the way that they engineer, manufacture, build, buy, communicate....everything.

Now, Japan as a country is worried about how this affects their relationship with the U.S. If the Toyota issues were serious before, they're critical, now!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100212/ap_on_bi_ge/toyota_recall

gagrice · February 2010

So, what more do they want?

Toyota has not spent a fraction of what this Congress has spent to rescue the Domestic auto industry. I would say about a $40 billion loss for Toyota should level the playing field. Then Congress can say OK, now you can sell cars again.

Has the NHTSA given the OK to sell the recalled models with the phony Shim Fix? Are the factories here back up to speed? That seems to be hushed up. I should stop by the Toyota dealer and try to buy a Camry.

graphicguy · February 2010

gagrice....I don't know what Toyota's losses are going to be this year, or what's likely to be a loss next year, too. But, I think they will be staggering.

Not certain about Toyota getting the "OK" for sales of cars with the alleged "shim" fix.

But, it seems they're (quietly) going about with the brake over ride workaround. While I personally think Toyota is going to have eventually rework the code that has caused the UA and braking problems, the brake over ride will at least give owners a relatively easy option if they're engines ever surge out of control.

Also, it sounds like it's a code issue with their Toyota/Lexus hybrid braking problems, too.

So, whichever Toyota dept is writing the code for the acceleration and braking systems, well....if I were Mr. Toyoda, I'd like to have a long chat with those folks.

I still can't figure out why Toyota is being so secretive about installing new code? Moreover, what the new code does. If I were an owner, I'd like to know what they're doing to MY vehicle, why, and what to expect from it. I get the suspicion it's more than just a brake override workaround, though.

Maybe those are some things Congress can ask Mr Toyoda.

tomjava · February 2010

voluntary recall while the trucks are still on the way to dealer. Another lousy quality from an american supplier, DANA that was also responsible for rusty frame on earlier Tacamo model.

gagrice · February 2010

In addition, NHTSA need to do their job, which they have passed back to the automakers to do. It is like letting the Fox watch the hen house. I still cannot believe they ignored the complaints and accidents with longer UA. It had to be cronyism with the past employee that went to work for Toyota. We have so many loopholes in our laws dealing with conflict of interest.

The Japanese culture is in direct conflict with what this administration promised. Open government. That should include dealings with business where the consumer's welfare is concerned. This daily new recalls from Toyota, shows a real breakdown in their QC department. So allowing them to submit any data that is not verified by the NHTSA is not in the interest of the US consumer.

As a side note. I don't think the NHTSA has ever safety tested the Sequoia models from Toyota. Did they get assurance from Toyota they were safe? Being an owner of one I would like to know. With all this break down in quality and reliability, I could be driving a death trap and not know it until it is too late. Such as front suspension falling apart at highway speeds. Drive shafts falling off causing catastrophic accidents, as with the 2010 Tacoma.

gagrice · February 2010

I have had vehicles with Dana parts decades ago with no failures. It could be a P*** poor Toyota design and beating the supplier down to lower the price and material quality. The CTS throttle is by Toyota specification. I am sure the mandate was "make it cheap". Americans don't know the difference.

carstryke · February 2010

Thats because us North Americans are cheap.......look how much more standard stuff we have nowadays in automobiles and car pricing hasnt drastically risen or hasnt risen at all..... North Americans are cheap cuz we want a $40,000 vehicle but we only wanna pay $20,000

paul3637 · February 2010

Although they have not announced it on the news, Toyota USA FINALLY issued a full recall on over one million vehicles (called a customer satisfaction campaign) for its faulty oil lines that cause engines to seize, vehicles to catch fire, and brakes to fail when oil covers the brake pads. Toyota Canada & Lexus already did so last fall, but apparantly to avoid another crisis, they decided to avoid another public relations debacle. See:

http://sites.google.com/site/toyotav6oillinescandal/

(Toyota V6 Oil Line Scandal)

graphicguy · February 2010

gagrice....I don't know that the NHTSA tests vehicles, do they? Don't they just respond and investigate safety issues?

It could be a country cultural thing. However, Toyota is multi-national. One would hope that they're familiar with the rules and regs of each country they do business in. The recalls cover a lot of different geographic regions, including Japan. Nissan doesn't seem to have those same "secrecy" issues. Nor does Honda, as best I can tell. Mitsubishi has had their own share of issues with that sort of behavior in the past, though.

Still, I think it's a Toyota issue, not a country culture issue.

I think hiding these issues is the real culprit in being called before Congress.

Just perusing the local newspaper's car ads, I do see where the Toyota dealerships are advertising new Camrys, Corollas, Priuses, etc. Looks like Toyota is doing some sort of loyalty rebate ($500) and offering 0% financing to boot. So, they're selling them, again (at least they're trying to sell them). I don't know how successful they'll be until the smoke clears and Toyota goes into full disclosure mode of how and what they've done to make the cars safe.

Regarding parts suppliers....all they do is manufacture the parts based on Toyota's engineering. If driveshafts are failing, someone within Toyota didn't do any stress analysis (or did it poorly) on the parts before sending it to the manufacturer.

Toyota tried to go down that road already with blaming CTS. That hasn't worked out so well for Toyota. I doubt Toyota will make that same mistake twice.

kenym · February 2010

I hope they tank because what comes around goes around. I still wonder why Americans support Japanese companies when we have as good or better here. Lazy dumb Americans I guess. If they only knew where their money was going - Japan.

This sort of mentality is why our Country is in sooo much trouble today. Lets start with the American manufactures. The vast majority of American vehicles are built in Mexico, Canada and now China. What this means to our country is simple. No wages for our people, no taxes for the government. However the profits from the American car manufacturing companies comes here....Oh wait there was no profits.

We had to subsidize GM and Chrysler 80 Billion dollars or they would go under. Ford also lost a lot of money for the year, so no profits there either. In summary the US automakers discontinued a couple of there major brands, closed countless factories putting thousands out of work, closed hundreds of Car Dealerships also putting thousands out of work ( they claim this will make them more competitive and keep prices of there vehicles up )
and received 80 billion of our tax dollars. And had the balls to say that might not be enough.

On the other hand even with problems Toyota and Honda have had of late. Toyota, Honda and Hyundai have invested millions of dollars in building plants and jobs in THIS country. The wages, Taxes ( property/Federal and FICA ) stay in this country. What ever profits they make after there initial investment goes to Japan or Korea . Isn't that the way our system is suppose to work.

American politiicians have been protecting this Japanese company because they have vested interests to protect.

Well Ya!!.. Like there jobs for starters .... How many hundreds of thousand of jobs have been lost over the past couple of years??..We can't afford to lose any more jobs in this country..Because I don't believe many of the lost jobs are coming back any time soon..If ever.

lilengineerboy · February 2010

Ford also lost a lot of money for the year, so no profits there either.

Just for accuracy:From Ford's record losses to Remarkable Profit

Typically, its better to use factual information in discussions such as these.

kenym · February 2010

Typically, its better to use factual information in discussions such as these.

You are correct about that and I apologize for the error.

tomjava · February 2010

No, it's DANA way to fool Toyota by not following its spec. Every manufacturer demands its supplier to cut cost. Toyota and Honda are much better buyers who will to help and teach the supplier on how to save cost than GM, Ford, or Chrysler

It's DANA frame that they didn't use proper rust treament that costs Toyota to recall earlier Tacoma and paying the owner 150% of KBB value. I take Toyota over any other car makers any day when dealing with warranty.

By the way GM Acadia had defective axle few years ago, and Dodge Ram too.

Toyota on the mend?

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