Toyota on the mend?

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  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusMember Posts: 13,118
    dturr....at least in the U.S., there isn't much faith that Toyota has a handle on the safety issues. Or, if they do, that they're being honest and forthcoming about them. That's not helping them.

    While the doubt lingers, Toyota is going to be hard pressed to make any progress with rebuilding their reputation, and get people back into their showrooms. Makes no sense to me. But, that seems to be their stance...cover up, deny, non-disclosure of the facts.

    I thought they had changed when they sent a software workaround to the dealers. But, if they won't admit to that change, they haven't really changed at all. And, they'll continue down the wrong road.
    2021 Acura TLX A-Spec-Platinum White Pearl
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 26,072
    >Yet, they won't tell the public what the new code is for.

    Long ago I mentioned that toyota might try to implement a software fix for a problem causing the acceleration and keep it hidden by alledging that the fix is only to update by adding a brake cancel accleration fix.

    There's a huge financial responsibility exposure with having to admit there is a software/firmware problem causing the acceleration. toyo has already shown they are not trustworthy when it comes to reporting the facts and the truth.

    Lots of money involved. I can see where the Japan headquarters would deem that it's worth a bluff to try to act like there's no known acceleration problem in the software.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    When in reality, there's just too much evidence from experts stating that it's most probably the code causing both braking and UA issues.

    "In a letter to the committee last week, Toyota attorney Theodore Hester said the company has carried out "exhaustive and robust" tests, and does not think there are any electronics problems with its vehicles, but promised to look into it again.

    "In the spirit of the recent commitment made by Mr. Toyoda that our company will review all safety issues and potential safety issues with renewed vigor, we will be re-examining these complaints," it said of reports of sudden acceleration."

    Toyota studies electronics again (Yahoo)
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    That statement bring s up the question of exactly whom is reviewing the electronics. If Toyota is itself doing the review, isn't it likely that the same people who wrote the code and designed the systems are doing the review? Sort of like having students grade their own test. :)

    Maybe another set of unbiased eyes are needed to review the code and systems?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    Well, we could let the NHTSA do it.

    And then, after Toyota gets a clean bill of health, the NHTSA engineer can go enjoy his new job at Toyota. :P

    That's one reason why I don't think much of tort reform - you need a shark to hire the experts to really get to the bottom of this stuff. But that's another topic.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusMember Posts: 13,118
    steve...good find. Therein lies the problem. No one knows what toyota checked. Further, if you put an independent oversight committee overseeing Toyota's testing (as Toyota has promised, but have yet done), there's plenty of former gov't agency people now employed by Toyota. That kind of defeats the purpose of an independent oversight committee.

    Still, Toyota is hurting no one but themselves with this behavior. The longer Mr Toyoda puts off talking to Congress, the harder it's going to be for toyota to get regulators to accept any plan toyota puts forth.

    As bad as this is for Toyota, this type of stuff only makes it worse on them. How they don't understand that, is beyond me.
    2021 Acura TLX A-Spec-Platinum White Pearl
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaMember Posts: 8,213
    Good work guys, I see you have managed to discern that there is definitely a software problem without any evidence at all !! A lot of suspicions and speculation, but no evidence. There are a lot of intelligent people working on the problem, but you have managed to upstage all of them. Congratulations !

    Now get to work on the economy, global warming, and that little Iran problem we are having. Using your technique you can knock those out in a few hours ! :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    lol!!! :P :shades:
  • carnaughtcarnaught Desert SWMember Posts: 3,183
    edited February 2010
    That's one reason why I don't think much of tort reform - you need a shark to hire the experts to really get to the bottom of this stuff. But that's another topic.

    As long as the "shark" is an unbiased source; i.e., not the plaintiff's attorney ;) . But, that's another topic.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    edited February 2010
    I think that's ok - the car company's shark will have their own expert. Once the blood settles out of the water, you'll come closer to the truth that you can otherwise.

    Of course, we still don't know about the Audi 500 - the jury is literally still out on it after some 22 years of appeals. But all the lawsuits did probably influence the five recalls of those Audis and such safety gizmos like adding a brake-shift interlock to their cars (if you can believe Sean Kane, who has his own sharks).
  • silvercoupesilvercoupe Member Posts: 326
    You took the words right out of my mouth!!!

    Guess this must be a Toyota lawnmower:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Jj8_87VDHc
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 26,072
    >Now get to work on the economy, global warming,

    We already cured global warming years back; there ain't none. It was all a charade to make money politicially and literally for certain people. Oddly, we've not heard much from one of those people since his movie using erroneous nonfacts. The head guy of global warming has admitted there's been no warming since 1995.

    As for toyota, their past history makes people using logic on the information available more likely to discern there's something wrong beyond cheap plastic in a pedal and floor mats not done properly more likely to be right than the investigators doing their positioning in Japan.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    There's a huge financial responsibility exposure with having to admit there is a software/firmware problem causing the acceleration. toyo has already shown they are not trustworthy when it comes to reporting the facts and the truth.

    There's not a shred of hard evidence to show there's a software glitch; rather it seems to be pure speculation by ambulance chasers like Sean Kane's "expert" group and wishful thinking on the part of those who'd like to take Toyota down a notch or two.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Yep, what I just said -- no evidence of an electronics problem. But Toyota should be commended for continuing to investigate.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 26,072
    edited February 2010
    >There's not a shred of hard evidence to show there's a software glitch

    There's no explanation for all the accelerations during 8 years that don't fit floor mats catching on dangerously designed pedals and don't fit accelerator pedals that were catching on their pivot points due to friction caused by deterioration of cheap plastic specified by the car company to their CTS supplier (all car companies make mistakes on something). :blush:

    Did I mentioned there's a brake failure component in those UA events.

    I can recall when some were saying that floor mats was all that could have caused the accelerations that were unintended. They would tell people to move on and that there was nothing to all of those allegations. That was 2 months ago approximately. Times have changed.

    You knew we disagree on this. :) :blush:

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaMember Posts: 8,213
    Well, at least we agree on the global warming hoax !!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    edited February 2010
    Yes, I very much disagree on this. I would have no hesitation in considering Toyota again if I were to replace one of my Camrys in the future (not that I expect to do so soon; they've been exemplary cars). I've spoken with other Toyota owners who feel the same way. Maybe non-Toyota owners will shy away from considering the brand in the near- to mid-term future, but there's a very loyal owner base out there that hasn't experienced these problems and is not afraid of their cars. That's the reason I don't think their market share will suffer all that much.

    The brake failure is not really a "failure" per se, and pertains only to the current Prius hybrid models. There are allegations (from that shark-quack Sean Kane) that earlier Prius models are also subject to the same "failure," but I haven't seen any firm evidence.

    And no, I don't believe those who claim that they had sudden acceleration also had simultaneous, complete brake failure.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    edited February 2010
    Yep, what I just said -- no evidence of an electronics problem. But Toyota should be commended for continuing to investigate.

    There is evidence of more than just the floor mat and throttle control being a problem. Toyota has the fellow that brought his Camry in with WOT for the service manager to witness. No throttle failure. They changed the throttle body controller and a few sensors. I consider that a problem that Toyota has not addressed. A brake over ride system would cover any failure in the DBW throttle system. What is their hold up? Putting it in the 2011 models is not the solution for all of us with DBW systems. I plan to add to the list. I am tired of driving up my driveway only to have the engine stall for a few seconds as I top our hill and head for the garage. If I was not well aware of the anomaly I could very well drive through my garage into the house. More DBW design problems.

    PS
    It reminds me of the old days when you would get to the top of a hill and the Carb ran out of gas. Our 20 year old Lexus does not pause like that.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    edited February 2010
    Our 20 year old Lexus does not pause like that.

    If that was a major issue you shoud've bought one of these. :P
    image
  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusMember Posts: 13,118
    steve....I also see where Mr Toyoda is ducking meeting with Congress....that he's meeting with dealers only when he arrives here. I still believe he thinks this will all blow over. While I don't think Congress can compel a non-U.S. citizen to meet with them, considering the amount of money Toyota has invested in this country, their factories, all the dealers, etc. that he'd want to hear what they have to say. Clearly, at least for now, he doesn't.

    That said, if Congress gets serious, they can certainly make it very uncomfortable for Toyota to do business here. I wonder if that would get Mr Toyoda's attention?

    But, you can look at the timeline and see how Toyota has tried to..... blame floormats for their UA. When that didn't work, and UA continued, they said it was the accelerator pedals from a supplier. It's going to be a longer, and even harder road, the first time someone has an issue with UA and they have new floormats and a refitted accelerator.

    Then, there's the "mystery code" being installed, that they've trying to keep very secretive. Some of you may be right. They're hiding, to the best of their ability, what their new code is, and what it does. It may be a liability issue, but what if it turns out that this bit of code is at least a workaround for their code glitches (or as we suspect, installation of at least a brake over ride system that offers a simple solution for those who experience UA). My fear is that this code is prevalent in many, many more Toyota cars, over the course of many model years. That certainly would have liability implications, and probably have insurance companies reopening many files of accidents or injuries that were dismissed by Toyota as "driver error". I'm sure there would be criminal implications, too....especially if Toyota knew about the code errors, which it looks like they do.

    Again, it all still comes down to Toyota, and Mr Toyoda in particular, to meet with Congress. Be open and completely forthright. Then they can begin the long and difficult process of first fixing all of the affected vehicles. And then, tackling their quality problems.

    To add to their woes, none of this even begins to address their braking issues (which is code related, too), and the more "minor" issues of braking steering parts in their trucks.
    2021 Acura TLX A-Spec-Platinum White Pearl
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    edited February 2010
    First off the LX570 was not available when we bought our Sequoia in 2007. How do you know the LX570 would not show the same problem? You can believe in ToyLex and their DBW systems. I am not a big fan. It makes me especially nervous creeping along fire trails with a drop-off of several 100 feet on one side. A sudden surge in acceleration could be disastrous.

    Also the LX570 is shorter and less comfortable in the second row seats. You give up about 4" of leg room. The LX is a decent vehicle. Nothing to make it worth $35k more than I paid for the Sequoia. The only way ToyLex will get me into their show rooms again is if they offer a diesel version Tacoma sized PU or Land Cruiser. That I think the SUVs from 08 on are butt ugly.

    I would not count on the LX570 to save Toyota's bacon. It is cramped in back, ugly and gets 12 MPG on Premium Gas. Strictly an Urban Cowboy rig.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    edited February 2010
    Toyota has the fellow that brought his Camry in with WOT for the service manager to witness. No throttle failure. They changed the throttle body controller and a few sensors. I consider that a problem that Toyota has not addressed.

    Yes, but that was one car. Where is the evidence this is a widespread problem, other than supposition? Even the total number of sudden acceleration complaints is small compared to the total number of allegedly affected Toyotas on the road.

    A co-worker had his water pump fail before 50K miles on his 2004 Camry. Does that one instance mean anything if most others have not had the problem?

    BTW, both my Camrys have throttle-by-wire. I'm not scared that anything untoward is going to happen, and my wife and I know how to shift into neutral if by some chance something does happen. Even if the cars were recalled, I don't know if I'd bring them in for a re-flash; maybe only right before I sold them as assurance to future owners.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    edited February 2010
    It's going to be a longer, and even harder road, the first time someone has an issue with UA and they have new floormats and a refitted accelerator.

    On this I agree, but not for the same reasons as you. I have no doubt that a few unscrupulous types will blame any future crash on sudden acceleration, if they can get away with it.

    Then, there's the "mystery code" being installed, that they've trying to keep very secretive.

    Maybe I'm mistaken, but isn't Toyota simply retrofitting the brake-override system in some of the recalled cars. I think people are suspecting some kind of conspiracy, and the brake-override system will paper over the "real" problem. Where is the evidence? And even if it does mask the putative real problem, does it matter? From now on, once people step on the brakes, the throttle will be cut off.

    I can see Mr. Toyoda being hesitant about stepping into the congressional "lion's den," with all the posturing and grandstanding that our legislators will put on for show. I don't expect much truth to come out of these hearings, just a lot of hot air and footage for their re-election campaigns.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 26,072
    > I don't believe those who claim that they had sudden acceleration also had simultaneous, complete brake failure.

    It gets murky separating symptoms written by people who aren't able to describe fully the conditions of the failure during UA in an analytical way.

    However, there's enough description in some to cause concern about it, even on cars that aren't hybrid where the brakes operate in a more complicated manner.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 26,072
    >Maybe I'm mistaken, but isn't Toyota simply retrofitting the brake-override system in some of the recalled cars. I think people are suspecting some kind of conspiracy, and the brake-override system will paper over the "real" problem. Where is the evidence?

    Where is the evidence that their code is only adding a software brake override? Toyota is not being forthright in their explanation. I predicted long back that the brake override would be opportunity to "fix" other problems that are suspected or found by toyo.

    Remember, there's a huge amount of money riding on determining the software/firmware/hardware cause of those other cases of acceleration. Replacing the computers would be very expensive in all those cars.
    Look at how toyota stalled on the CTS pedal plastic deterioration fix.
    Look at how toyota worked to mislead the NHSTA.

    What would they do to cover up an electronic control system problem which would mean huge costs and more like huge loses in sales from the public realizing for certain the public had been kept in the dark along with NHSTA.

    >conspiracy

    Toyota's track record on honesty about the acceleration, at least the ones that made it into the records, has NOT been good so far--they started in 2002? 2010. Let me see, 8 years.

    This isn't a matter of Elvis sightings. This is life and death for women and children.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusMember Posts: 13,118
    210...I guess we don't know what the new code does. If I'm an owner, that's what i'd like to find out. We know they're installing the new code when they're installing new floormats.

    But, if it's my car, I'd want to know what the code is for. What does it address (brake over ride is probably a good guess). But, what, if anything, else? Nobody is saying. I don't know if Toyota corporate has put some sort of "gag" on the dealerships to not disclose.

    Is it mandatory? If you don't want the code installed with the other recalls, does an owner have to sign some sort of waiver that they declined it? Or, is it being installed and the car's owner expected to just accept it, without knowing what it is?

    Again, maybe just me. But, if I'm an owner, I'd want to know what exactly is being done to my car, why, and what it's for.
    2021 Acura TLX A-Spec-Platinum White Pearl
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    I predicted long back that the brake override would be opportunity to "fix" other problems that are suspected or found by toyo

    Again, how do you know they're doing this? Do you have any evidence, or is it a hunch?

    This isn't a matter of Elvis sightings. This is life and death for women and children

    Aren't you getting a little melodramatic? Simply getting in a car and driving has much more risk than the odds of sudden acceleration actually occurring. You're sharing the roads with bozos who may be drunk or otherwise not focused on the task at hand.

    Must...get... back...to...work. More to come this evening.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    210...I guess we don't know what the new code does. If I'm an owner, that's what i'd like to find out. We know they're installing the new code when they're installing new floormats.

    Maybe I'm mistaken, but not all of the recalled cars will get any new code, just revised floormats and a shim in CTS-supplied gas pedals. Of course, the conspiracists think new code will be snuck in while the car is back in the service bay.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    Yes, but that was one car. Where is the evidence this is a widespread problem, other than supposition?

    There are at least 2000 complaints of runaway acceleration with ToyLex DBW vehicles. This one person showed the ability to bring it in at WOT to show a Toyota representative that IT DOES HAPPEN. To me it makes no difference that it is hardware, software or firmware. It does happen and not always with a jammed floormat or a defective throttle controller. I don't think they need to change out every sensor or device that can and will fail. They need some kind of over ride to protect those in the vicinity when something does fail. I don't think you can argue that Toyota does not have some issues with their DBW systems. People do not complain to the NHTSA for the fun of it. How many incidents have been reported to dealers and not gone any further? The dealer checks the car out and gives it a clean bill of health, and no more incidence occur.

    I followed the Prius threads very closely in 2004. Many complaints came in to Edmunds, and the faithful poo pooed any thing negative against the beloved Prius. It was not until the NHTSA came down on Toyota did they correct the stalling problem.

    Now they have close to a 1000 complaints on the 2010 Prius Brakes. So Toyota quietly implements a fix on the new ones coming off the line in Japan. That is IF they truly have a fix. The 2010 Prius may be the worst yet for complaints on several systems.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    Of course, the conspiracists think new code will be snuck in while the car is back in the service bay.

    Are you saying that Toyota does not issue TSBs on faults they find, and not tell the consumer they have taken care of it? That has been a common complaint. What happens if a person does not want to pay the exorbitant price for routine maintenance at the Toyota dealer? Will they get a letter on all TSBs offered for a given vehicle? I think not.

    My 2007 Sequoia is not on any recall list. I would like to know if something were to fail in the DBW system causing UA, that I could stop the vehicle by over riding the stuck throttle with braking alone. It is nice to be aware that I may have to shift into neutral to save my skin. I think ToyLex is negligent if all DBW vehicles do not get equipped with brake over ride at some time in the near future.

    My inclination is to sell this vehicle while it is on the No Recall list and get a German made SUV with diesel and put Toyota in my past.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    edited February 2010
    I think ToyLex is negligent if all DBW vehicles do not get equipped with brake over ride at some time in the near future.

    What about all of the other automakers that don't have brake overrides, like GM, Ford, Honda, Mazda, Subaru, and so on? Are they negligent too?

    As for TSBs, a person can find out about them if he/she has a problem by searching internet forums like this. Some independent shops also subscribe to services providing TSBs, such as AllData. You don't have to go to the dealer (I certainly never do if I can avoid it). And Toyota is by no means alone in issuing TSBs.

    My inclination is to sell this vehicle while it is on the No Recall list and get a German made SUV with diesel and put Toyota in my past.

    Your vehicle has been reliable thus far and fits your needs. Why would you jump from the frying pan into the fire? Plus you're fully capable of shifting to neutral if the absolute worst happened.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    edited February 2010
    There are at least 2000 complaints of runaway acceleration with ToyLex DBW vehicles.

    Food for thought:

    Any idiot can go on http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/ and file a complaint. The complaint goes in the database. If I would write a report saying that my friend’s Corolla drove in a bus, the bus did burst into flames and 100 people perished, you would have 100 additional deaths in that database.

    Note that 13 alleged deaths came out of the woodwork in the last three weeks alone. This database is meaningless, save for reading public opinion. Or the rapid typing skills of a few.

    There is a real database covering fatalities. It is called FARS. It gets extremely detailed input from police officers. So where are the FARS analyses?


    Also:

    Can anyone provide any links whatsoever to actual fact regarding these UA deaths? All I ever see are people complaining that Toyota’s car have caused the accidents. Have any companies (crash reconstruction) verified any of the deaths? If not this is just plain ol regular scare-mongering.

    More here.

    I should note that FARS (Fatal Analysis Reporting System, by NHTSA) is only as good as the police reports that underly its analyses.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusMember Posts: 13,118
    edited February 2010
    Well, brake override is somewhat taking care of Toyota's UA problem (not one shared by the other manufacturers you mentioned). It's not a fix, from where I sit. But, it's a solution that addresses, but not fixes, Toyota's UA problems.

    Toyota's negligence is more revolved around what I consider incomplete, inaccurate, and misleading causes of UA. Since this issue is Toyota issue, I don't expect any other manufacturer to offer brake over ride. Now, they may choose to do so, or may already be doing so. But, Toyota is the company which MUST address this.

    Last I heard, there were 19 deaths, about 800+ accidents and a wealth of even more complaints surrounding Toyota's UA issues.

    As Toyota has done, you can dismiss the issue, you can ignore the issue, you might even come up with a "less liability" perception as a fix.

    From the beginning, Toyota has spun up their PR to minimize the damage. The damage is still there, though. And, it could still be hazzardous, if they don't become more forthright.
    2021 Acura TLX A-Spec-Platinum White Pearl
  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusMember Posts: 13,118
    In what I thought would end up in a plant shutdown because of tepid sales and massive recalls for Toyota......

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100216/ap_on_bi_ge/us_toyota_recall_us
    2021 Acura TLX A-Spec-Platinum White Pearl
  • silvercoupesilvercoupe Member Posts: 326
    In what I thought would end up in a plant shutdown because of tepid sales and massive recalls for Toyota......

    Looks more like a "break in production". This is common in todays tough economic times. The Honda plant near me (Lincoln, Alabama) has scheduled numerous "non production" days and weeks in the past 18 months.

    I don't know about the Texas plant, but I suspect that The Georgetown, Ky plant is using the non production time to gear up for production of the 2011 Camry.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusMember Posts: 13,118
    slivercoupe....way too early to do a shutdown in Georgetown for 2011 production. That plant is about an hour away from me. They don't do their model change over until summer. Toyota has 100+ days of supply on the ground....and rising. Over half of it still has to be retrofitted by the dealers. So, they can't sell them, yet.

    The Honda plant hear me (Marysville, OH) is running full bore. So is the Ford Transmission plant near me. I'm in SW OH, so a lot of these plants employ people I know.
    2021 Acura TLX A-Spec-Platinum White Pearl
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaMember Posts: 8,213
    This isn't a matter of Elvis sightings. This is life and death for women and children

    What, men don't count? :)

    All this sounds familiar, hmmm, Audi comes to mind.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • silvercoupesilvercoupe Member Posts: 326
    slivercoupe....way too early to do a shutdown in Georgetown for 2011 production. That plant is about an hour away from me. They don't do their model change over until summer.

    The 2011 Camry will be hitting dealers next month.

    Toyota has 100+ days of supply on the ground....and rising. Over half of it still has to be retrofitted by the dealers. So, they can't sell them, yet.

    I did not dispute that there is an oversupply at the current time. I stated that "non production" days are common place.

    The Honda plant hear me (Marysville, OH) is running full bore. So is the Ford Transmission plant near me. I'm in SW OH, so a lot of these plants employ people I know.

    I was referring to the Honda plant in Lincoln, Alabama. I live 30 miles away and used to work there. I know for a fact that they do schedule "non production" days and weeks at that particular plant.

    Also, test production runs for the upcoming model year are done as much as 8 months prior to the actual model year introduction. I know, because I helped to assemble many of those in years past.
  • silvercoupesilvercoupe Member Posts: 326
    Toyota has 100+ days of supply on the ground....and rising. Over half of it still has to be retrofitted by the dealers. So, they can't sell them, yet.

    Not sure what you mean by "retrofitted by the dealers". Can you elaborate?
  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusMember Posts: 13,118
    Sure....Toyota sent dealerships a template to reshape the gas pedals. They''re doing that while installing new accelerator assemblies, floormats and software workarounds.
    2021 Acura TLX A-Spec-Platinum White Pearl
  • chev3chev3 Member Posts: 5
    Who can anyone ever take Toyota seriously any more, let us start with Toyota USA in 1995-2000 they have had problems with SLUDGE in their Engines, and have they settled the agreement that went against them, “NO” and there Dealers are not honouring this Agreement either.
    So what do Toyota USA do to fix the problem, send all the Tooling to Australia and invent a new car from the old tooling that caused so much trouble in the USA, problem solved
    Now Australia’s Toyota built from this old Tooling 2000-2005 is having SLUDGE in there Engine problems, and by building less cars then the USA, are able to dodge any fall out and again blame the owners, as Toyota did at first in the USA.

    What a vicious cycle all this denying, Toyota Australia is doing, so to me Toyota is not the one bit interest in there customers in Australia, as long as they can sell new car, and make a profit, why should they worry about the Thousand of people in the USA and Australia, :lemon: what are thinking this is an honest and honourable Company, who silly are we, history keeps repeating it’s self, so I think it is time to stop buying their car.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 12,810
    never ever have any sort of problems with their own Toyota's, this UA issue will not affect more than 0.01% of its customers. Therefore, I see the impact of this issue not mattering to 99.99% of the public.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    By Drew Johnson

    The Toyota Tacoma has already been at the center of one recall this year, but another could be on the way for the popular compact truck. Following a number of customer complaints and added pressure from the federal government, Toyota has announced it will re-open a safety investigation involving 2004-2008 model year Tacomas.

    Separate from the defective drive shaft that prompted the recall of 8,000 2010 Tacoma four-wheel drive models earlier this month, Toyota says it will re-open a safety investigation involving 2004-08 Tacoma models for possible unintended acceleration problems. Toyota originally looked into the issue in 2008, but found that the reports were “related to minor drivability issues and were not indicative of a safety-related defect.”

    The NHTSA also launched a seven month investigation of the unintended acceleration complaints, but found no reason to launch a recall.

    According to Automotive News, the NHTSA has received 514 complaints of unintended involving Tacoma models since 2004. As of April 2008, 71 of the complaints if the complaints resulted in crashes with 17 injuries reported. No deaths have been linked to the alleged defect.

    Toyota recalled the Tacoma last year for defective floor mats, but several of the Tacomas involved in the noted complaints were not equipped with the faulty all-weather mats. Some speculate that Toyota’s throttle software could be to blame for the unintended acceleration complaints, but no hard evidence has yet linked the two.
  • revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    David Shepardson / Detroit News Washington Bureau

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    Washington -- Toyota Motor Corp. plans to shut down production again at two U.S. plants as it copes with the fallout from a series of recalls, a company spokesman confirmed today.

    The new shutdown of the company's Kentucky and Texas plants for up to 14 working days, total, will follow a week-long shut down of six North American assembly plants.

    That was prompted by the company's recall of 2.3 million vehicles for sticky pedals, which forced a halt on Jan. 26 in sales of eight of the company's models, or 60 percent of its inventory.

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    As a result, Toyota's January sales fell below 100,000 in the United States for the first time since 1999.

    Toyota spokesman Mike Goss said today the automaker will idle its Georgetown, Ky., assembly plant Feb. 26, and has tentatively scheduled a production hiatus for three more days in March.

    "That gives us some flexibility," Goss said, if demand for Toyota vehicles increases faster than predicted.

    Goss confirmed that the company will halt production at its San Antonio plant March 15-19 and April 12-16. "This is to keep inventory in line," Goss said.

    He said all workers will be paid during the shutdowns and are expected to report to work for plant improvement activities. About 2,000 workers are employed at the Texas plant, and 6,600 work in Georgetown.

    The shutdowns are likely to affect the company's engine plants in Kentucky and Alabama, as well. One shift was idled during the week-long shut down at both plants.

    Toyota has recalled more than 8.5 million vehicles worldwide in recent months, including 437,000 Prius and other hybrids last week. It also recalled 8,000 2010 Toyota Tacoma pickup trucks last week.

    The automaker also recalled 5.4 million vehicles over pedal entrapment concerns. Federal safety regulators have received complaints alleging 34 deaths since 2000 from sudden unintended acceleration in Toyota vehicles.

    Toyota said Monday that its dealers have repaired more than 500,000 vehicles and said that repairs have been completed on about half of the 112,000 vehicles in dealer inventory when Toyota was required to stop selling vehicles last month.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaMember Posts: 8,213
    edited February 2010
    In the end, be it good or bad for Toyota, all this will be decided by the black boxes.The info in those black boxes will eventually cut through all the hysteria, misinformation and scammers, so that we can get to the bottom of this fiasco.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    Not if Toyota has their way as they are doing everything possible to keep them confidential.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    perhaps a new law should emerge that states that all carmakers must fully disclose any and all black box information to a government group that watchdogs this sort of thing. For everyone's safety overall good.

    Sound reasonable? From this month of Feb. 2010 and on, eh?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    You could couple it with Right To Repair - A Hot Issue or Big Problem? legislation.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    I mean, doesn't it seem appropriate considering the Toyota fiasco going on? Seems to me to be appropriate.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusMember Posts: 13,118
    slivercoupe.....I respectfully disagree with you. 2011 Camrys won't be anywhere near a dealership until well into summer. The 2010 just started arriving a few months ago. And, there's a ton of them still sitting on dealer's lots, yet unsold, and mostly "unfixed".

    I'm sure Toyota would rather just forget about the 2010 model year (probably 2009, too). But, they can't change the past.
    2021 Acura TLX A-Spec-Platinum White Pearl
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