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Comments
Dave.
I read in Automotive News that 46% of Toyota-Lexus-Scion vehicles were imported from Japan in calendar 2006, the highest percentage since 1994.
It is more costly to ship from Japan; therefore Toyota is planning to build up to 4 new assembly plants in North America by early next decade (not counting the already-planned site in Woodstock, Ontario and of course the newly opened Tundra plant in San Antonio).
Let's check back at the end of the year.
Meanwhile kdhspyder reposted the relevant Detroit News story for the last 3 years.
Toyota is sitting on a huge cash hoard -- they can spend a little to get Tundra sales moving.
I doubt you'll see $5,000 or $6,000 on the hood as Dodge has had to resort to.
BTW, both of my Camrys came with $750 rebates (plus 2.9% financing on the older one). Still a drop in the bucket compared to the Detroit 3's recent history.
The higher tax is the infamous "chicken tax" enacted in the early 60s to keep out VW trucks based on the Microbus. It was in retaliation to the Europeans taxing frozen chickens exported from the US.
Again it gets back to the statement I made. Hard to say the Tundra is NOT an American truck when it is MADE in AMERICA! (SAN ANTONIO TEXAS, which when I last checked is not in the republic of MEXICO)
Plus it would be nonsensical to make them in Japan, where such large trucks are totally unsuited. (However, I did see someone tooling around in a Dodge Ram when I was in Japan on business in 1999.)
The only reason Toyota is still importing anything from Japan is they haven't had the time or money to build enough plants in the U.S. to meet the demand for Toyotas. In fact, the mix skewed back the other way last year because the new Camry was so on fire that many of them were coming from Japan to make up the supply shortfall in the States. But still, as mentioned above, 54% of the Toyotas sold here were built in North America (the U.S. plus Canada; there are no Mexican-built Toyotas for sale in the U.S., although the Tacoma beds are made there and shipped to NUMMI in California for final assembly).
The new Highlander arrives in a couple of months and then we will see Toyota lay WAY off in revamping the biggest truck-based vehicles like 4Runner. Their sales are going down just as they are industrywide. Already they have put the Sequoia revamp on hold because of the gas prices and the fall in full-size truck-based SUV sales.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I for one did not say that. No one has denied Toyota makes money making cars. I have seen Toyota's (among others) profit picture in terms of average profit per CAR, in "The Economist". Again it is well known the highest profit and % is in the trucks, this is what I said and this is what I meant.
I personally hope the Sequoia will go away and the next 4Runner should be a crossover instead of truck-based with the size increases slightly to further differentiate itself from the Highlander. This case it could serve as the GMC Acadia/Saturn Outlook fighter for Toyota. Land Cruiser should be the only remaining truck-base SUV in Toyota's lineup with a strip-down version for some "real offroad" use. Oh, and I forgot about the FJ Cruiser, this one should be truck-based as well.
Here's my proposed lineup for Toyota/Lexus/Scion...
Toyota:
Car: Yaris, Carolla, Prius, Camry, Avalon
SUV/CUV: RAV4, Highland, 4Runner, Land Cruiser, FJ Cruiser
Minivan: Sienna
Truck: Tacoma, Tundra
Future model: Supra and possibly another FWD coupe around $20K?
Lexus
Car: IS, GS, LS, SC
SUV/CUV: RX, GX, LX
Future model: LF-A (the FR supercar) and another small crossover slotted below the RX since there is no doubt it is moving up in size. The GX should become a crossover as well just like the 4Runner.
Scion
Current lineup looks good maybe it could use a mini-ute? The size for that should be no larger than the first gen RAV4.
Given the direction of the market to more fuel efficient vehicles I'll add the following
Prius There was some talk about making it its own mini line.
Prius hatch 1.8L +HSD ( Gen3 scheduled for Oct 2008 )
Prius minivan 2.4L +HSD( Estima from Japan already has a hybrid option )
Prius midsized CUV 2.4L +HSD( smaller than the new Highlander, more radical than the RAV4 )
Prius super economy sedan 1.5L +HSD( Yaris hybrid? )
There is something going on in KY. They've offloaded 100,000 Camry's to the Subaru plant in Indiana and they are taking the Solara out of production. What's going to fill that space? It could be the US-made Prius or it could be a new hybrid CUV or both.
I would drop the Matrix, I just failed to see its place in Toyota's future lineup.
Instead of making Prius it's own miniline why doesn't Toyota just create a Prius for every model? For instance, instead of Camry Hybrid/Highlander Hybrid, call them Camry Prius and Highlander Prius. The orginal Prius can be called "Prius Classic"
I don't suppose we will have the next-gen Land Cruiser here in the States. Sales have been next to nil for a long time, this model has priced itself right out of the market. Maybe they will develop a more basic model with a diesel for the States and surprise me, but I doubt it.
And the next 4Runner should just merge with the FJ line - take on its styling and smaller size, and let the Highlander fill the 7-seat mommymobile role.
There could be 2- and 4-door 4Runners again! And it is too big right now for much serious trail and off-trail work, so all the heavy-duty running gear is wasted.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
After spending a day between the local Toyota and Honda dealers, I think Toyota needs to rework most of it's entry level vehicles. My wife and I were looking at the small sedan's, 5 door hatchbacks, and small SUV's. All of the Toytoa's seemed dated compared to their Honda couterparts.
Exampes:
Civic-Corolla
Fit-Scion Xa/Matrix
Element SC-Scion Xb
I think most of them are due for a refresh next year, maybe that will change.
The only one that seemed new was even less impressive: the FJ Cruiser. Worst blind spot I've ever seen, crumby ride, didn't seem to have anything under the hood. Probably great offroad, but I doubt 5% will ever see the edge of the pavement.
Scion xA will be replaced by xD. I still don't see the need for Matrix. How does the Matrix sell this days anyway? Scion xD
New Scion xB is expected to hit the showroom late these year. new Scion xB
So you are right, most Toyota's small cars are outdated and apparently Toyota thinks so too.
...NA ..... Japan ... Total
365,000 .. 83,000 .. 448,000 ( includes Solara )
For the Corolla..
335,000 .. 52,000 .. 387,000 ( includes Matrix )
Maybe the Subie plant is just taking over the vehicles that KY can't produce and thus are needed to be imported. Good catch.
I think the LC will remain even in its very limited scope. It's a halo product. The FJ has taken over that basic 'go anywhere' function. I agree too that the 4Runner/Sequoia are at a critical juncture.
With the GM Lambda's being very well received and being bigger and more in line with today's market all the BoF SUV's need to be reconsidered. GM is apparently doing away with the Trailblazer/Envoy, Ford is making the Explorer a unibody SUV and Nissan is making the next Pathfinder a unibody vehicle as well. That leaves only the 4Runner/FJ, the Wranglers and the Durango as the remaining BoF off roaders.
Diesels anyone? Isuzu to the rescue on the next 4R, FJ, LC and Sequoia?
If you guys are having issues with the FJ, then Toyota may've over-extended themselves. FJ is too big to compete with Wrangler, too small to compete with Xterra.
I've read Jim Press as saying Toyota had a choice, bring back the Supra or make an FJ.
Since Toyota had 5 SUVs already, I was hoping for a Supra, since Toyota has ZERO sports cars, but the FJ won out. :sick:
I vote leave 4Runner alone. If it can stand up to all this competition, and still sell over 100k consistently, there is a loyal market there, and should be worked. I learned to drive on a 1992 4Runner, so I'm a huge fan.
DrFill
I am pretty sure one way or another, the Supra is coming back. There are way too many rumors about the "future Supra" and rumors don't start with nothing. Also, since now Toyota has the 2GR-FSE and the 4.0 V8 that's suppose to go on the IS-F it all now makes sense for them to bring back the Supra.
I vote leave 4Runner alone.
4Runner is an excellent all around SUV. My dad has a 05' Limited and he's loving it everyday. The only down side of it is because of the BOF the interior space is a joke compare to its unibody competitors. I truly think in order to make the 4Runner competitive the next one should be a crossover. I vote for keeping the 4Runner and cut Sequoie if one really has to go.
We are sorry that many others (and I mean MANY) apparently don't share your experience.
-They breakdown like any Ford does.
-Their gas mileage doesn't come close to what they claim.
-Their resale value is only higher than domestics because they don't sell alot of vehicles to daily rentals.
-The cost of maintenance is outrageous. (Go for an oil change and see how much "required maintenace" gets tacked on.)
-And their TV ads constantly get pulled because they use false claims or they make a claim from 2001 data.. what a joke!
Well, they just sold one to me, as the only hatchback on the market that can seat four adults in ample comfort and have a little bit of sport built in, while averaging me over 30 mpg all the time (currently running about 34.5 mpg).
Not to mention the durable cargo area with quick-and-easy fold flat rear seats.
Fit, xA, and Versa, too small. PT Cruiser and HHR, a little too big (high roofs, tippy in turns) and I hate the interiors, not to mention the fuel economy isn't there. Tried out the Focus models, SO hard to find a stick, the powertrain always feels about two sticks away from giving up even in a brand new car, and I like the styling of the Matrix better anyway.
What does that leave? Oh yeah, the xB, which almost did the trick. I thought long and hard between the two, but in the end it was the little things - a bit more power and slightly better fuel economy in the Matrix, the Toyota rather than Scion name, the lack of a temp gauge in the xB, etc.
All of Toyota's small cars are VERY old at this point: Corolla, six years, xA, seven years (only two full years in the U.S., but this car is the 2000 ist from the Japan home market), xB, eight years, ditto xA and this car is the 1999 JDM bB, Matrix, same as Corolla.
The xA and xB have already stopped production, and the new xB arrives in two months, the new xA (called the xD) in five or six months.
The new Corolla and Matrix replacement arrive in about 11 months.
As for the 4Runner and Sequoia, I hadn't even thought of kdhspyder's idea, but it's not a bad one: merge the Sequoia and 4Runner lines, leave the 100% full-size truck-based SUV market to the domestics (sales are shrinking, as are returns on major R&D investments in new models), and continue the FJ for gen-II. Just eyeballing the dealer lots, it seems to me that FJ's run has ended - it was always intended as a niche vehicle, and it seems that most of the buyers in that niche have now bought their FJ. So it is left to fight rising gas prices and people's preference for four doors over two with a 16/20 EPA rating and rear suicide half-doors.
I will be VERY surprised if Toyota continues the LC line in the States - sales are at what, like 2000 vehicles a year now? The Supra was discontinued when sales dropped that low, and it was a halo vehicle too.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Both the "import lover's CR" and "domestic lover's JD Power" don't agree with you.
-Their gas mileage doesn't come close to what they claim.
Nobody's does.
-Their resale value is only higher than domestics because they don't sell alot of vehicles to daily rentals.
Their resale values are second only to Honda. Of course, all Luxury brands were excluded.
-The cost of maintenance is outrageous. (Go for an oil change and see how much "required maintenance" gets tacked on.)
My family has 3 Toyota (including one Lexus) and the highest amount I've every paid for my Lexus for regular maintenance so far (12K miles) is 70 bucks. The 2-year-old 4Runner and 9-year-old Camry were all being charged less than that for regular maintenance with no other charges tacked on. My advice is: try another dealer for maintanence or report that dealer.
-And their TV ads constantly get pulled because they use false claims or they make a claim from 2001 data.. what a joke!
Their new Tundra and all Lexus commercials are the best commercials out there. All cold hard facts without those "This is ourrrrrrr country" crap.
You got anymore? It's a slow day today so I'll be available to entertain you...
PS
Welcome to the forum....
OK, the next time I plan to build a giant steel see-saw, I'll keep the Tundra in mind. Good God, ALL commercials are crap!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Generally speaking yes...
But the new Tundra see-saw commercial and the LS460's "take off" commercials look pretty real to me.
My family has 3 Toyota (including one Lexus) and the highest amount I've every paid for my Lexus for regular maintenance so far (12K miles) is 70 bucks.
You are a lucky man. My wife has a folder on the LS400 since it was new in 1990. There is right at $18k in routine maintenance and repair. No major repairs. Most periodic maintenance with filters, lube and oil change were right at $1000.
Rarely watch TV so cannot comment on ads. This is all the entertainment I can stand.
Resale values of all cars is a real joke. You buy a Toyota and take it back to trade-in the next year. I guarantee you will not get the wholesale BB for it. We are conditioned to believe that our $30k car is only worth $15k after a couple years. When the warranty runs out it is near worthless.
It was not always that way. I bought a new Land Cruiser in 1964. Even with all the problems I got $2100 for it after 3 years & 50k miles. I paid $2400 for it new. The automakers are all laughing at our ignorance today.
You can't be genuine in saying that you think Toyotas break down as often as Fords?
That's just not correct.
Millions of owners know that.
Hundreds of studies and owner polls and surveys have proven that.
Sure, Toyotas break down just like other cars. Just FEWER of them do it.
And Toyota doesn't have "gas mileage claim" problems - All those tests are EPA certified, and if you are paying attention, you have seen that the EPA revised it's test this year FINALLY to show MPG figures closer to the real world of 2007 driving.
And maintenance for a Toyota is not proportionally higher than Ford. All dealer shops are out to gouge owners - none more than others.
I bet you've got the best-maintained 1990 Lexus in the world. It's important to keep all the records for high-end cars like that. I've got a binder for my Seville with all my receipts and maintenance records.
You got anymore? It's a slow day today so I'll be available to entertain you...
Wow. That's aggressive sounding.
As for the Tundra commercials, I was just the other day wondering what I could use to pull a large trailer over a teeter-toter. We have one here in Dayton and I need something to do. grin. I'd be turned off no matter what brand did that one-same for the platform appearing to be hanging out over the cliff. Is that one special effects?
The other commercials about apple pie and flag also turn me off. I'm wondering if those have a different impact on the different areas of the county. I'd say they ain't gonna work here.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The Echo I have now has 80K miles and has needed no repairs. The oil changes are $30 at my local dealer and include a car wash and fluid top-up. They are always done in less than an hour, usually in 30 minutes. I view that as an OK deal considering that when I get it washed it costs me close to $10 anyway, and the dealer does a slightly better job.
That car makes 40 mpg as a running average, and was rated 34/41. My new Matrix is rated 30/36, and my running average over 2000 miles is 34.5 mpg. In all the Toyotas I have owned, I have NEVER made less than the city EPA rating as my running average, and usually can get near the highway figure, exceeding it on highway trips. The other poster suggesting that they never make their EPA ratings has at least one piece of anecdotal evidence to the contrary! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
lemko, let's not kid ourselves here. We all know that there is no way in *beep* that you will ever buy a Lexus.
Thank you for reality. In many cases it's the level of maintenance that a car receives. As gagrice pointed out foreign dealers have been able, in this portion of the world, to intimidate customers more thoroughly into have all kinds of extra maintenance done. That extra maintenance often adds to the already high bill but it may help prevent failures that have an infinitesimally small probability of occurance down the road. Other things like aggressively selling oil changes to get owners back in help, IMHO, with future life of the vehicle. I've had coworkers talk about the techniques their dealer used to make sure they were afraid not to come back as told to--threat of not honoring the warranty, even though that's not true legally, is one. while other dealerships of other types may also do that it's not nearly as prevalent here through the last couple'a decades. As I said, I've listened to coworkers' stories and our friend who just bought a Corolla has had her 2nd 3000 mile oil change!!! in 8 months. The duty cycle of that car's usage indicates to me it's good for 6-7000 miles; many of the miles are long trips.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I know I know, the contracters Toyota hired to build the see-saw used Ford trucks. Let's just get that over with. :P
Hadn't heard that, but wow. It's like the PC folks critiquing the Macs years ago about how useless they were compared to the businessman's cheaper choice of PC Windows (it also ran LOTS of games for pasttime between work breaks!). The Mac didn't have as many games. So, the companies used Macs to make the commercials for PC/Windows machines. The local Microcenter chain (Columbus) used Macs to do their newspaper-sized advertisements. Really a hoot back then. BTW I now use 3 PCs and have an older Mac in the computer room for ???.
The particular ads don't seem to have a purpose for the Tundra's doing those things. I'd react more to pictures of a drive on a winding mountain road with a trailer to access that property where you haven't built a summer home yet. And I feel the same about any company's truck ads.
If the one with the cliff ramp is real, I sure wouldn't want to be the person driving the rig, unless that has been speeded up drastically from the actual taping speed-slowwwwwww. They could have added the sound to match a higher speed after the fact.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The last time we took the LS400 into dealership they gave her a list of things that they claimed were in need of replacement. The car had just over 72,000 miles. Over $5,000 if they did all the recommended repairs. I was able to find a Lexus independent that went over the car and repaired all that needed repair for $1100.
Do I think Lexus dealers are horrible? You bet I do. Maybe others are just as bad. I have never been ripped off by a Chevy or GMC dealer since 1988.
I've never changed a radiator or heater hose on my last 5 Buicks which went to 100K, 125K, 150K, 150K, and not srue about the two before that. Never had power steering anything fail or leak. The didn't have a heater control valve that turns off water to faciliate AC efficiency.
My neighbor with the 4 Acuras long ago started using a HonAcura only repair shop about 20-25 miles away. He doesn't get overserviced but the guy does do preventative service, apparently there are things that go back on Acuras--grin. Having your own mechanic for other than warranty on your Toyota would apparently be a big boon.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Good god man, you've kept a car for 17 years and are complaining that it needs repairs? You didn't mention how many miles you have on it, but I doubt that you would have been better served by a comparable car from the US or Europe.
As far as $1000 oil and filter changes, why on earth would you continue to go back to you're Lexus dealer. I'd have been headed to my local quick lube chain. Sure I wouldn't be able to get a Latte while I wait, but good God!
Resale values of all cars is a real joke. You buy a Toyota and take it back to trade-in the next year. I guarantee you will not get the wholesale BB for it. We are conditioned to believe that our $30k car is only worth $15k after a couple years. When the warranty runs out it is near worthless.
Resale values are less of a function of the automakers than they are the buying public. There's a glut of used cars thanks to the number of people who lease or trade up after two years. If you think resale values are so bad, feel free to pick up one of those heavily depreciated cars. That's what I did: 2 years old, 4,700 miles, and saved $5000 over a new car same model.
If you're keeping cars for 17 years, resale value shouldn't be an issue for you anyway.
From your rant you ...
...seem to have paid too much - too high payment
...out of warranty repairs are the ticking bomb on all new vehicles. 3-5 years from now don't be shocked if the public is up in arms about $4000 repair bills for electronic controls only covered by the 3/36 - from all manufacturers.
...HUGE maintenance is a myth of the past. It was costly back in the early 90's. Now it's next to nothing - or nothing at all....
...in all my Toyota's 4 Camry's, Prius, MR2, Highlander and Solara the acceleration has been better than any other vehicle I've owned. In every vehicle I drive, Import or domestic or transplant I always get just at or just above the OLD EPA values with no problem at all.
....You have your vehicle towed to a Toyota dealer when you get a flat!!!!!!!!!! Be serious now.