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The UAW and Domestic Automakers
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Maybe so. I just don't see why he'd lie about something like that.
Rocky
In the past it hasn't been that unusual for a company to require stock purchase with at least part of their matching funds for 401's, has it. Ethical, maybe not good since people learned with Enron; but somewhat company-centric for the extra money they're offering for investing in your own retirement.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
One good thing though was that GM did not require you to keep the GM stock in the 401. After at time you could transfer it to a bunch of Fidelity or other mutual funds. I never had much GM stock unless I felt it was at one of it's low points in the cycle.
Maybe so. I just don't see why he'd lie about something like that.
Rocky
Does he work at a plant?
OK, first of all he does not even work with GM. I am sure Delphi now has have different rules.
Two, plants are city based and often the plant manager needs to have his plant meet or contribute so much money so he/Delphi looks good to the city fathers. Matter of both pride and financial sense since the company needs to keep the city happy to help the company bottom line.
"EXPECT" their supervision to own/buy (X) amount of stock to prove they are loyal to the company. Yes they get stock options to buy the shares lower than market cost to make it a benefit.
Rocky
"EXPECT" their supervision to own/buy (X) amount of stock to prove they are loyal to the company. Yes they get stock options to buy the shares lower than market cost to make it a benefit.
Rocky, I worked for GM for 23 years. Never in that 23 years was I "expected" to own any GM stock. And I was in "supervision" for part of that. Perhaps our definition of "supervisor" is different. I do know that the lower levels of unclassified's are not expected to own any stock.
I do have stock options. They are not given at discount. You are given a certain amount of shares. Within a certain time period you need to "sell" these options and you get the difference between the option price and the selling price. So if the shares were opted to you at $50 and it is at $60 you get $10. However if it goes down you get nada. My wife and I have so many shares that are worthless.
The Wyoming plant is Delphi. I believe they make valve lifters. Fisher Body has been gone for about 20 years.
So 62, while YOU may not have been in that position doesn't mean it didn't happen. But you are right, lower levels were not expected to by stock, could have been that it was felt the lower levels weren't going to buy that much anyway, don't know.
But Rocky is right as well, just because it was a Delphi plant, it was still considered under the GM umbrella, just as many people still think of Delphi is just the new name of Delco-Remy, AC_Delco or Delco. Just as people equate Visteon is being FOMOCO. May not be 100% true, but it is true to many. And how do you know, you were too busy removing all the colors from GM interiors and making everything gray, brown or black(from another forum)
Have a happy holiday.
Rocky
Is there even a program available to the Union folks that helps buy GM stock? I know they do not have a 401 available.
Your answer is wrong again. UAW doesn't have a sponsored 401K, but the workers do have a 401K along with their define benefit plan working for GM/Delphi. It also includes a company match. They also can use pre-tax dollars to buy company stock.
Rocky
Rocky
#1 The Big 3 management and engineers however will have to design cars that are of the "highest quality" to win back import buyers and never ever again skimp again.
#2 They need to get the Customer Service to the levels of Lexus. Even if Joe Six-Pack, is buying a Chevy, he better get treated like royalty.
#3 Will be cars that are among the most Technologically advanced vehicles in the world. But still have brands that produce cars for people like Loren.
Those are my Big 3 for the BIG 3 :shades:
Rocky
Some folks seem worried about tough times for the Big 3 and possibly going out of business, or at least shutting down production and plants in some cases, thereby putting many folks out of work.
Well... am I the only one that thinks these folks will just then be hired by the other manufacturers as they build more plants and ramp up production to sell more of their cars to make up for the lack of supply caused by the Big 3 in this scenario?
Then again ... seems to me the Big 3 will just increase their production at their Mexican plants as they close US plants. Lemme ask something: do the Big 3 pay the large tariffs on these vehicles that "foreign" manufacturers pay? My guess is no, in which case the only thing I can see the government doing to help the situation is charge these large tariffs on ALL inbound vehicles, regardless of manufacturer or country of origin. In this manner, the Big 3 will need to produce their vehicles, competitively, in this country, just like the foreign manufacturers.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Agreed. However, most people don't understand economics well enough to have this discussion. Emotions rule these kind of debates here.
Just watched Dateline story last night about Walmart pressuring manufacturers to move production to China to lower costs so Walmart can make more money--closing plants in US. Catch the program when it reruns. Parallel it to auto production companies in your thinking.
When Clinton (past Arkansas governor)signed trade agreement to send our imports to China it really opened it up to Walmart to import more from China. China has bought next to nothing imported from US. Guess who gets taken in this deal. Jobs gone. Manufacturing gone to China. Third world county- us in US.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
In case you haven't noticed, many profitable car manufacturers are setting up shop in the Southern USA. The people here haven't learned that getting paid far better wages and benefits than they could earn anywhere else is a bad thing (even though the unions keep trying to explain it to them). Hopefully greed won't eventually ruin things here like it has in Detroit.
>In case you haven't noticed,
That's what I meant by southland. Just visited friends in Smyrna, TN, home of Nissan's huge plant and lots of employees. It's a hire for pay state. Hire and fire anytime employer wants!!! No problems with older retirees in the future; you just fire them when they start to get older and need more healthcare; there's always new bodies to put on the lines!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Ah, but my point is they won't. Since they are a "foreign" manufacturer, even if they build in Mexico, those vehicles would be charged with huge tariffs, the same reason they have built plants here in the US to begin with. At least, that's my uneducated understanding of the process. If anyone knows differently in regards to how these tariffs work, please chime in.
And this is also why I'm saying if US manufacturers were charged tariffs on the vehicles they import under their nameplate, maybe they would also find that building here in the US benefits them.
Wages to be "liveable"? are you serious? $40/hr is WAY more than liveable. I live in one of the most expensive states in the country (NJ) and I don't make $40/hr, yet I have a pretty expensive house, 2 car payments, a child on the way, etc, etc, and I'm not crying poverty by any means. I can't because everyone close to me is making even less, yet they are all still homeowners with car payments, etc, as well. NOBODY NEEDS $40/hr.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I agree. One good example was the Chevrolet dealer from which my girlfriend bought her Impala. I couldn't believe how nice and modern the shop was with a clean, well-furnished waiting room and extremely courteous staff. Shoot, I wish the Cadillac and Buick dealer could be as good as this Chevy dealer.
And this is also why I'm saying if US manufacturers were charged tariffs on the vehicles they import under their nameplate, maybe they would also find that building here in the US benefits them.
Not sure what the heck you are talking about. The only tariffs left are the 25% on trucks brought in from otside the NAFTA areas. Mexico and Canadian built vehicles imported to the US have no Tariffs or duties.
Their newest plant is built in Lansing at a cost of $1.5 billion over the past few years. There are 3 GM only plants in Mexico and 3 in Canada(soon to be 2) that "export" to the US.
I've never known anything different. It doesn't bother me. I am worth what I am paid, so my employer has no reason to fire me. I will have enough money to retire before I have to worry about being fired in my old age.
I already pay for social security and medicare for people who don't have enough of their own money for retirement. Why should I subsidize them further by buying poor-value American cars?
which is why I've already stated multiple times that I don't know what I'm talking about and am asking for those who DO know to help out the discussion with correct info.
So are you saying that a Japanese car built in Mexico has no extra tariffs to pay? If that is the case, why are they building plants in the US while American manufacturers are closing theirs down?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Very good question. Who know's the real answers?
Here are some reasons though.
Iacocca said they should build the cars they sell here, here in the US. They did that.
They can say they are "american" companies even though in the total costs of a car the place where it is built is a small part. They have to pay someone to build them. They have to buy the parts from somewhere. Yes they might costs a bit more than building them at home BUT, they still have the advantage of their home country paid health care and pension for the majority of their employees. They also have kept their US plants non union which helps in both costs and productivity by going down south where non college grads will work for less. Also many of their vehicles are still imported. Depends on which company. Toyota imports about a 1/3 of it's vehicles.
Why are the US plants closing down. Take a look at this forum for the last month. Overall reason in my opinion is that there is a lot more competition in this country than 20 years ago. New competition means that the big pie is cut up into smaller pieces. The old competitors lose parts of the pie if the consumer feels that the new guys give a better product at a fair price.
GM and Ford are going to get smaller. Time will only tell if they can stop getting smaller and get profitable again. As I said earlier GM is still spending billions of dollars on new plants and facilities to get competitive. One reason they lost all that money last year is due to huge investments in new plants and new product.
Bottom line is the domestic manufacturers have to at least catch up with the foreign manufacturers and follow their manufacturing methods.
They can say they are "american" companies even though in the total costs of a car the place where it is built is a small part.
Its not small if you are an out-of-work auto worker.
How many parts of any car are manufactured here? Does anyone have access to some kind of master list that shows what percentage of parts are manufactured where? That would be interesting to add to the discussion. It must be out there somewhere.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
http://www.cfo.com/article.cfm/4267617/c_4266733?f=TodayInFinance_Inside
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
GM, Ford, Chrysler: 80%
Japanese: 31%
German: 5%
Korean: 2%
I can see WALMART selling Chinese-made cars within 5 years-as GM shuts down. the only thing i wonder-how will US workers buy a car on their $8.00/hour WALMART jobs?
And forget about Congress-the Chinese have bought them..ala Jack Abramoff!
The only Union I feel is absolutely necessary are the coal and mining unions. To buy American, I have 3 car companies to choose from if I want my money to stay here in America. So, what's the incentive for buying American? Am I buying a car or am I supporting an organization which might eventually destroy all of what American was built on? The Unions were supposed to counter corporate greed in favor of taking care of the blue collar workers. Unfortunately, greed has now spread through American industry like a virus and unions are right there contributing to the plague.
In 20 years, I don't want to be standing on the street corner holding up a sign written in Chinese, "Will work for Food"!
John
just found this, which I thought interesting:
2002 Honda Accord 2dr EX-L 2.3-4 4spd Auto
Japanese Owned
USA Assembly- Marysville, Ohio
USA Engine
USA Transmission
70% US/Canadian Parts Content
20% Japanese Parts Content
2002 Honda Accord 4dr EX-VC 3.0v6 4spd Auto
Japanese Owned
USA Assembly- Marysville, Ohio
USA Engine
USA Transmission
70% US/Canadian Parts Content
20% Japanese Parts Content
So, once again, here we have a foreign auto manufacturer that builds a car here in the US, with US employees, paying US taxes, owning US property, and doing so with 70% of parts built in the US by US employees, etc, etc.
Yet, at the same time, the Chevy Aveo is a rebadged Korean car. SO... I guess what I'm saying is, for those who want to feel patriotic and "buy 'Mericun" might want to look at the actual individual cars rather than just their nameplate.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Rocky
Rocky
In Japan it's union workers too though. I wonder if the UAW considers them cousins.
I'll check on that again though...
Actually all Acuras are imported except for the TL. Only some of the Civics and Accords are built here. All Accord hybrids are imported. About 10% of the Accords and Civics are imported. (automotive News web site)
Of course most of their vehicle volume is the Accore, Civic and TL!
http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA38181212.PDF
I've worked in a non-union auto parts plant - Johnson Controls Inc. I started out making $11.24 and over a years time I got a raise of .50 cents to $11.74
Over a 3-4 yr. time period you could make up to $14 and change-> WHOA !!!!! Big bucks :surprise:
I think my point is proven !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why should the fat cats make all the money ?????
Hey I don't neccessary hate people that have never belonged or grew up around a union. It's just frusterating when some one who's never belonged shoots of his or hers mouth on something they have no idea about. I would of never made a fair salary and benefits without a union. The other big advantage is you can raise safety issues to management without getting terminated or losing your current position which I've seen done in a non-union Job I had. Even if it slows down production or effciency. A union is only as strong as the members paying dues and supporting one as a united body. If you have cold feet as member, then the mssion will fail. I yes belong to a union and have worked for a few. I grew up in a UAW, IUE, IBEW, Teamster, household and family. I belonged to the UAW, RWDSU, UPGWA, and currently PGU member
So yes some of you are making good assumptions that at Toyota it will be a temporary job for most. Once your body breaks down from the years of wear and tear they will replace you with somebody younger. The whistle blowers at Toyota, Honda, that are getting older have came out of the closet and told the UAW that some of the people are getting fired for various reasons that are unexplainable. It's hushed, when the real truth has been leaked. The truth is a older worker is slower and not as efficient, has more vacation time, takes more sick days, and makes more money. He/She will be replaced easily by a new younger worker making less money and benefits. This sounds like a great place to work. Welcome to republican politics, corporate greed, and the loss of worker rights in this greatest nation on gods green earth. :sick:
Rocky
P.S. some of you understand exactly what I'm talking about since it's perhaps happened to you.
I hope your dad's happily retired now.
This is one of the problems with our auto industry (and other industries too). With union enforced seniority, we have the older, less motivated workers building our cars. Unions take motivation and creativity away from workers and base eveything on seniority.
"Why should the fat cats make all the money ?????"
Take some initiative, start your own company, then you can make "all the money"!
If these auto workers were to be compensated based on merit, we might have domestically built cars that are reliable!