Best vehicle for $40,000

qbrozen · December 2006

yup ... totally forgot.

But since you've revived it in my subscriptions list ...

i say the 335i is the choice in this category.

circlew · December 2006

Cars are now a commodity. You are better off leasing instead of buying. If you stay away from the packages that add cost (as you point out), it pays to give it back before the warranty expires so 1) You have a new car 2) You do not add repair costs 3) You get to choose best configuration for where you are in life.

I was a religious "but to own" until repair costs became more expensive than major surgery.

The edge on the options are going towards the Japanese because they give you more techno in the base price than the Euro's. American cars bleed residual and you pay for it whether you buy or lease.

To each his own.

Regards,
OW

thegraduate · December 2006

Cars are now a commodity. You are better off leasing instead of buying.

Unless you drive a good number of miles each year (I average 25,000 miles a year - on a lease, that would kill me in overages). My family tends to keep cars for long periods of time also. This means, for example with our 2000 Odyssey van, it was paid off in early 2004, so we continued driving the car, without a car payment. Driving a paid for car is wonderful, and you can do it as long as you like. I currently drive a 1996 Accord that was paid off in 1999. 7 years without a car payment can save people some serious cash if you put aside the same amount you were paying on the car. At say, $400 a month, you've got approx $20k saved after 4 years of having your car paid off. That's enough to pay cash for some cars, or make a HUGE down payment on one.

For you, leasing may be best, but for me, I'll never lease as long as I keep putting big miles on my cars (I have 169k miles on my old Accord, and it has never left me stranded, so I'm keeping it until it threatens to do so!)

dhanley · December 2006

I think the lease vs buy comparison comes down to "it depends".

I'd *love* to lease, the idea of not having to deal with trade-in, small payments, etc, very much appeals to me.

In some cases, a lease may save money, but most of the time i've compared numbers, it seems to end up costing more. Now, if i pay an extra $1000, and add a lot of convienence, this may be a good trade-off.

One of the exceptions seems to be BMW leases with their high residuals and low interest rates. However, even in that case, buying worked out better for me. With the mileage i've put on over the past six years, i would have paid more for two leases and i have a car that i don't have to worry so much about banging up.

Of course, i've paid for repairs here and there, and it's more of a headache, and i don't have a crisp new car, so i understand, and might lease the next one.

scottm123 · December 2006

i say the 335i is the choice in this category.

Unfortunately, when I build a 335i online with the options I want, it's more like $46,000

circlew · December 2006

Mileage is definitely the key factor lease vs. buy. Since I keep it between 12-15K, It's good for me.

For you, you need miles. So, it makes no sense for you to lease unless you lease one car and own one for the excess mileage. Yes, the Hondas and Toyotas are reliable but I like to drive a more engaging ride. In 2 years, I will decide on another.

Regards,
OW

qbrozen · December 2006

mine is still under $40k. ;b

and, with Euro-delivery, I found out its under $36k! :0

scottm123 · December 2006

Personally, I want things that should come included in the price of my luxury sports sedan.
I like things like heated seats, metallic paint, bluetooth, leather.

Those things in the 3 series add up very quickly, and before you know it, your $34K BMW is $46K

qbrozen · December 2006

that's fine. And I understand. (by the way, bluetooth is standard on the 335i.)

But, my personal preference is typically function over form. If I'm presented with 2 cars at the same price, one has moonroof, power memory seats, leather, heated seats, bluetooth, and runs 0-60 in 6 secs, for instance, while the other has faux-leather, moonroof, power memory seats, and runs 0-60 in under 5 secs ... I'm choosing the latter. The faux-leather from the germans is actually quite nice. Looking at the standard equipment on the 335i, the only thing I'd miss is the heated seats.

ok ... so i just went through and equipped a 335i with metallic paint, comfort access, and the cold weather pack. The MSRP is still just $41,370. under Euro-delivery, it would still be well under $40k, and I'd have everything I could want in the car, personally. Real leather may be welcome, but paying over $2k for it is not worth it to me.

Of course, its all personal preference. Some people prefer to spend their money on non-performance options. Heck, if such buyers didn't exist, Lexus may have never been successful.

scottm123 · December 2006

I won't argue that the BMW handles better than most of the other cars in the segment, but I still refuse to consider the BMW 335 a vehicle under $40K

I have a hard time basing my decision only on what car gets me to 60 mph faster... and we're not comparing a 5.2 second with a 9.2 second run.
Your example is a 1 second difference.
You at the track that often?
I spend more time enjoying the luxuries of my luxury sports sedan than I do the 0-60 excelleration. (not that I don't enjoy that too)

The bottom line is that when you compare the vehicles in the segment, most include what I want "out of the box" while BMW continues to "nickel and dime" us to death.
And for what, their remarkable reliability?
What good is the one second advantage when it's sitting in the shop... free maintenance or not.

And by the way, the Bluetooth 'option' is not standard here in the states, it's $750-

I just built a BMW 335i with the options I want in my car.
It came to a grand total of $53,265

I then built an Infiniti G35 Sport with the exact same options.
It came to a grand total of $41,200

I made sure not to add anything on the BMW that the Inifiniti didn't offer... wanted to be fair.

The question is, is the BMW worth an extra $12,065?

In my case, absolutely not!

dhanley · December 2006

"I spend more time enjoying the luxuries of my luxury sports sedan than I do the 0-60 excelleration. "

To coin a phrase, you can't even spell acceleration.

Some people place a value on performance. Lot of buick drivers out there will think you're nuts for getting a g35. So it goes.

ivan_99 · December 2006

My vote goes with qbrozen.

I'd take the exhilarating on ramp excitement over a power passenger seat any day.

I just can't imaging having my brother fly in...and me pick him up at the airport and then say look at what this baby can do! and then reveal the awesome power side mirrors.

Of course this illustration is a little ridiculous...

I suppose there are reasons why cars like the ES350 sell so well.

My ideal 335 is also under 40K.

I'm not sure...but I think this original thread also had a stipulation that the vehicle achieve 30mpg (highway); which I'm pretty sure the 335 won't be able to do (previous 330i's would achieve higher than their EPA rating in rag tests)

qbrozen · December 2006

I just built a BMW 335i with the options I want in my car.
It came to a grand total of $53,265

Wow. You and rocky should shop together. Both of you like to load up with every option possible. Actually, you must have left something small off because EVERY option comes to $53,865.

According to bmw's website (bmwusa.com), the long list of standard features includes the following:

8-way power front seats with 2-way manual headrests and driver memory with 2 pre-sets for exterior mirror and seat positions

Leatherette upholstery

3-spoke leather-wrapped multi-function steering wheel with audio and Bluetooth® phone3 controls

Front seatback storage nets

Burl Walnut Wood trim

scottm123 · January 2007

Sorry for the typo...

The bottom line is that I also like that excitement when hurling myself from an exit ramp or being lucky enough to be first in line a a red light.
I like having that power as well, but also enjoy the luxuries the car can also offer.

The G and the 335 both land within the 5 second range.
We're talking about less than a second difference.

When looking at everything... power, handling, luxuries, reliability... the BMW falls short when compared to other cars which actually fall into the $40,000 price range, which the 335 (loaded with toys) does not come close to doing.

In my example above, I only added in the options necessary for bringing it to the same level as the G.
Leather seats, heated seats, navigation, etc.
The things I would personally like in my next car.

I wasn't trying to bring in argument.
The fact is that I'm about 2 months away from my next car purchase, and I'm trying to stay within the $40k range.
That made this particular thread of interest to me.

The BMW 335i is a very compelling car and it does come in under $40k.
I just wish it offered some luxuries to take along for the ride, without breaking the bank.

qbrozen · January 2007

I don't think of this as an argument. So don't sweat it.

You are bringing up a very valid point, and one that many shoppers face. All we (all of us) are doing is showing the 2 sides of the coin. There are those who want more features, and those who want more performance. There are those, of course, who want both, but they'd have to be willing to spend more than we are.

dhanley · January 2007

"In my example above, I only added in the options necessary for bringing it to the same level as the G.
Leather seats, heated seats, navigation, etc.
The things I would personally like in my next car. "

I tried configuring such a car on the BMW site, and it came to $44,250. Do an ED and you're under 40K.

I think you've already decided that you don't want the BMW and are trying to "prove" your decision is correct.

ivan_99 · January 2007

True, if you like the options the BMW can get up there.

My wife also like options...our mini van was just shy of 40K (MSRP that is); still hurts if I think about it enough (the alternative sport sedans that could have been...)

scottm123 · January 2007

I think you've already decided that you don't want the BMW and are trying to "prove" your decision is correct.

Actually not true at all.
My friend has a 328 and I love it, and I absolutely love the new 335xi, although the reliability reports from other owners do have me a little worried.
My friend buys his used with over 70K miles and his current one now has 350k and runs very well... so I have seen both sides of the reliability coin.

I originally wanted the Lexus IS.
I test drove the 250 AWD wanting something good in the snow and was disappointed in the power.
I can't do the 350, as it's RWD only and I know my needs, that won't do for me.

I love the 3 series xi but the cost, when I build it with the options I want, gets way out of control.
I'll admit that I'm adding a lot of options, but I spend a lot of time in my car and love the toys.

I then found the G35x.
The 07, with the options I want, is just over $40k
Hopefully, I can get them under MRSP, and under $40,000, loaded with the toys, bells and whistles I wish to have.

I built the 3 series with the same options and got it over $50K.
I wasn't trying to throw in the kitchen sink just to make a point and my example was accurate, for my needs and wants... nobody else.

If I only wanted an engine, steering wheel and tires...
I'd go for the Ariel Atom.

-Peace

goodegg · January 2007

After you buy your G35, will you still frequent these forums (forae?). Cause you'll discover things about the car that all your research didn't uncover, or that you never thought would be an issue. The remorse sets in. You think "wow - for 10-15% more I could have just bought the ____ ".

Don't overanalyze this thing. I think you'll be happy with the G35, but also think you would also never regret buying the BMW, even if it is more money.

circlew · January 2007

I never could afford a BMW but always was interested in experiencing the so-called "ultimate driving machine".

Now I know. I knew it was different after the test drive, but the car really becomes an extension of the driver. You can talk and read all you want but the true experience tells all.

Regards,
OW

cklho818 · January 2007

Choice A Lexus IS 350 $29.9K - $40K+ (306hp) V6
Choice B BMW 335i $32.4K - $40K+ (300hp)Trb Chg inl 6
Choice C Infiniti G35 Sedan opt pkgs $31.4K - 35K+ (306hp)V6
Choice D Mercedes C 350 $29.6K - $40K+ (268hp)V6

*All models are base on Yr 2007 specs
*All models suggested above are RWD
*Pricings of each vehicles definitely depending on the options you want.
*Each of the models suggested also has lower models available for lower pricing, options, AWD.

www.lexus.com
www.bmwusa.com
www.infiniti.com
www.mbusa.com
for details

also check JD Power for diff types of ratings.

Hope this helps!

qbrozen · January 2007

Choice A Lexus IS 350 $29.9K - $40K+ (306hp) V6
Choice B BMW 335i $32.4K - $40K+ (300hp)Trb Chg inl 6
Choice C Infiniti G35 Sedan opt pkgs $31.4K - 35K+ (306hp)V6
Choice D Mercedes C 350 $29.6K - $40K+ (268hp)V6

???
There is no such thing as a $29.9k IS350. There isn't even such a thing as a $29.9k IS250.

Likewise, there is no such thing as a $32.4k 335i.

And, thirdly, there is no such thing as a $29.6k C350.

You got the Infiniti just about right.

I believe, at least on the Benz, you are stating C350, but giving C280 pricing. I'd imagine you are doing something similar with BMW. But, regardless, they all fall under $40k, so it doesn't change your point. I just wanted to clarify for those who frantically looking for a $29k IS350.

cklho818 · January 2007

You are right, we can TRY to order one from the manufacturer with nothing on it but who's going to do that and whym right? :P

I drive an 2006 Lexus IS 350 RWD w/ Navi & ML Stero Lux Pkg for $40K.

Very nice car. Definitely different from the other Euro competitors especially the driving feel but I care more about the whole package than just the ultimate driving experience. (Oops, the heated/cooling ventilated seats are standard, I find them very useful in extreme cold/hot weathers. Place I live can go to low 30s and 100s in summer.

I tried to build a similar vehicle with all the features and options that I have in a BMW and MB...It's impossible to attain $40K. More like high 40s.

Infinite will be an alternative. The new 2007 G35 Sedan seems pretty competitive.

They have improve a lot this year.

scottm123 · January 2007

Q is absolutely correct.

These are absolute base MSRP prices, no dest. costs included...

Lexus IS250 - $30,255.00
Lexus IS350 - $35,705.00
BMW 335i Sedan - $38,700
BMW 335i Coupe - $40,600
MB C350 Sport - $38,775
MB C350 Luxury - $39,375
Infiniti G35 - $31,450
Infiniti G35x - $33,950

I loved the IS350, but need AWD, and the IS250 is very weak in the power dept.
I'm considering the G, and looked at the 3 series as well.

The G, fully loaded, is right around $40,000.
The very equally equipped 328xi is $47,665

I'm leaning toward the 07 G35x

jml7 · April 2007

I would go with the Volvo S80 sedan. Plenty of room, and one of the longest lists of safety features in existence. Feel free to point out its faults, as this is just my own opinion.

fedlawman · April 2007

I checked out the new S80 when it came out. It's the nicest Buick I've ever driven.

circlew · April 2007

My best would be the 335 at this point. The G car is getting interesting. The Merc needs further development. The TL needs something more visceral as does the I.

Let's see what the CTS can bring in the fall.

Regards,
OW

socalkid · April 2007

Does anyone take the new Pontiac G8 seriously? I was wondering if this is a car I should consider or will it be too unrefined (the hood scoops scare me!)?

Please give me some feedback.

circlew · April 2007

I would say the resale value is suspect vs. your 2 German considerations, 335, C350.

THe write-ups say it is a decent performer since it is from Holden division. Just a Bonneville replacement to me, FWIW.

Regards,
OW

fedlawman · April 2007

It's a porker (almost 4000 lbs?), but at least it's RWD...

dhanley · April 2007

"I would say the resale value is suspect vs. your 2 German considerations, 335, C350. "

Well, resale's only really relevant if the prices are broadly similar. Supposedly, the v8 g8's going to top out around 35K.

That being said, i'm sure the g8's going to be tuned as a powerful family car.

socalkid · April 2007

It sounds like the new C-Class will be "tuned more like a powerful family car" than the G8. I'm just not getting a sense of real "sport" from this C-Class. Correct me if you think I'm wrong.

Needless to say, the Mercedes interior will be superior.

I think they could have pushed this car futher. Everyone else is doing 300hp, why can't they? That's my big problem with Mercedes these days - too safe, too vanilla ice cream.

circlew · April 2007

Resale or lower residual value with repect to mileage/age is relevant if it's a U.S. brand.

Taking the price of a 2004 GTO with $33K price, 2007 retail is $20,255. A low optioned Merc holds a 2007 price of $23,800 assuming an out of the door price of $33K.

Not apples/apples but close considering the GTO is a Holden off-spring also.

Merc will always be higher as a relative percentage of price.

Regards,
OW

dhanley · April 2007

First of all, I said "don't matter unless the prices are quite similar" and you find two cars with the same sticker prices.

Also, that GTO almost certianly didn't go out the door for 33K. The resale is low because the cars sold for invoice-rebates, and most likely had low-interest financing as well. The GTO was a clear "miss" for the marketplace and were quite hard to move.

That "low optioned merc" for 33K is a c230 with very few options.

I used to buy the "depreciation" rationilization until i ran the #'s with a few of my own cars. Had the saab and the BMW, the bmw holds its value very well, the saab depreciated like a rock..etc. The cars had almost the same sticker (smidge under 40K as in this topic), but the saab was cheaper in the long run because of the thousands saved up front. And those savings also factor into taxes, interest, etc.

I think if you want to determine the real financial viability, you have to compute depreciation from "out the door" prices and factor in finance deals, etc.

civicguy3 · April 2007

I hear that the British version of the G8 replaces the British version of the GTO. So it will be more of a muscle car, I guess.

socalkid · April 2007

I'm really just thinking of leasing a car for 3 years. I just wanted a great car between 30k-40k but reading these forums has me totally depressed. People frequently bash all the cars out there. Here are some examples:

BMW 3 series: cold horrible interiors, cramped, punishing and stiff ride. Overpriced.

2008 Mercedes C Class: boring, quality has dropped, performance isn't there.

Lexus: My wife has a 2007 IS250. I like it but can't see owning two Lexus (Lexi?).

2008 Cadillac CTS and Pontiac G8: GM makes crap, etc, etc.

It goes on and on. I used to like cars but now all I see are flaws. I'm scared I'm going to panic and do something stupid.

My friend keeps telling me, "Dude, there just isn't anything inspiring out there. You should get the 2008 Accord sedan. 255hp, sweet design, great balance, nice interiors and gas milage. Forget everything associate with a Honda Accord, this thing will be amazing! You can get one loaded with nav, leather, etc,etc for 28K. Why pay more?"

What do people think I should do?

circlew · April 2007

Use what others say as only a guide. At the end of the day, follow your heart!

Regards,
OW

dhanley · April 2007

Honestly, there's no car in this class that's "bad." Ny feeling is that cars at the same price point are about as good, just built with different priorities:

Bmw: sedan that feels like a sportscar
Merc: super-solid and luxurious
Lexus: quiet and reliable
CTS: big and bold
G8: Dunno. Didn't drive it yet.
acura: lots of high tech gadgets for the money

There's a lot of variance even in models. A manual 335i coupe with sports package is pretty different than an automatic 328i sedan.

Just drive 'em and pick the one you like.

laurasdada · April 2007

"What do people think I should do?"

Be an individual. Be your own person, make your own decisions:

Don't base your decision on internet postings! It's your money. Go DRIVE each car that interests you. See how it looks, feels, tastes, smells, sounds and drives to you. Evaluate the cars and the value you perceive. Then decide. It does not matter one bit what anybody else thinks of the car that you choose and pay for, if it is the right car for you. Unless someone else is paying...

Does it matter if your friend is uninspired? Are you?

ccd1 · April 2007

I think you have to define what you are looking for before you can state what is the best vehicle. For example, in terms of pure performance, the WRX STI and EVO would be hard to beat for the money. However, few of us could probably accept the rest of the package.

If you want a sports car, there is the RX-8, Audi TT, and the 350Z.

If you are talking sports sedans, cars like the Audi A4, CTS, BMW 328 (the 335 in any flavor will end up over $40k), Acura TL Type S, Infinity G35, are in the mix.

You have to decide what you are looking for to even begin to determine what the top choices are for under $40K

smu1976 · June 2008

2008 SAAB 9-3 Convertible
9-3 AERO CAB
Exterior: White
Interior: BLACK-PARCHMENT
Original MSRP: $51,325
Luxury Sale Price:
Stock #: 1300
Mileage: 8 miles
SAAB Downers Grove, Downers Grove (Chicago IL)
Try getting that off an Audi, CTS, BMW, Acura, Infinity? You will have to get a used one or beat to heck loaner, this has 8 miles, from just transport.
V6 Turbo power, higher torque, 4 year 50K bump to bump coverage, 3 year 36 all service (oil, tune, fluids) plus a Saab ragtop will hold their value against any of the above cars, not a sedan, not a wagon but a Saab ragtop. Plus, the number one car in safety, yes the SAAB convertible, none of the above can touch it in safety.
Onstar, turn by turn "live directions", why look at a T.V. map when I can talk with someone live? Car has own phone number which turns off the stereo and I can talk through it. NICE
Want a base Saab sedan, leather, 23-24K, way less than an accord, less than a HyundY better warranty, better safety, more room, foot, head, shoulder, rear set, trunk. Looks, you either love em or hate them, can't do anything about that.
On my fifth, will keep with them, been good to me and my family, with some hitting 150K (4 cylinders), 20 years ago.

smu1976 · June 2008

008 SAAB 9-3 Convertible
9-3 AERO CAB
Exterior: White
Interior: BLACK-PARCHMENT
Original MSRP: $51,325
Luxury Sale Price: $41,995 Click here to inquire about current leasing specials. Stock #: 1300
Mileage: 8 miles

thegraduate · July 2008

This forum died.

Can nobody afford $40k cars now that gas is $4 a gallon?

laurasdada · July 2008

My wife can, I can't... :sick: :confuse:

High oil and all that it affects, stock market, low interest rates for investments all conspire against us Joe Averages...

bvdj84 · July 2008

Well, when people look for cars, and when you can afford a $30-40k car, that opens alot of options up. Try not to make it so hard, honestly if you drove a loaded Accord and were completely happy with it, when compared to other cars, then just get the Accord. The price does not always mean anything, like MB, Cadillac, and even BMW, you are buying the name, and though a great car, it compares to many other models out there. Like for instance, for me, I would probably get a Acura TL-S model, and I think it is like the mac daddy of the Accord, and for me, is amazing! I would buy a BMW before buying a MB, because I think most MB's are ugly, and way overrated.but, hey thats me. Just look at the price you are paying for that. Sure, it would be cool to actually say that hey, I drove a MB for a few years.

It overwhelming looking for a car, but literally, drive all the cars you possibly could see yourself driving, and what makes you happy, and if it happens to be the cheaper cars, then who cares, and if it happens to be a G8, then go for it! After all, it is just a car! Not an investment, all cars depreciate.

Like for instance, I am leasing a loaded Pontiac G6, not by choice, but I am, and I am growing to appreciate its options, it really offers a good package, though, I am totally a Honda guy, and probably be right back to Honda later on, but I am learning to appreciate the G6, and appreciate the comparison between a G6 to an Accord.
It really is a great set up, but I can also list some things that it can learn from other company's as far as overall build. But, really, the resale values of cars are based on History, and I think pontiac is coming up a bit, but has a much to learn.

My next car, I am think of leasing a TSX or even a TL. That would be fun!! Its a car, have we forgotten how much money we really dump into our ride, in which takes us to point A to point B? I really don't need a new car, but I am. Just think how much more money we all would have, if we downsized to a car in our means.

laurasdada · July 2008

Actually, I do drive what some folks consider the uber-Accord, an '05 Acura TL. I quite enjoy it, a lot of car for the $$$. Still a great design imo...

thegraduate · July 2008

Regarding the TL,

I'd say (arguably) the best looking Honda product since the Acura Legend of the early 1990s.

laurasdada · July 2008

I agree and have oft posted as such. Honda/Acura, to me, has always been from the "handsome, but somewhat bland/inoffensive (e.g. Acura RL)" school of design. The original Legend Coupe, an homage to the BMW 633 of yore, was the only Acura that I thought to be a real "looker" until the '04 TL.

Good, reliable, well-rounded and built cars. But stylistically, generic... And my family has gladly owned several!

thegraduate · July 2008

I'd take that over this

laurasdada · July 2008

The ol' Legend certainly looks cleaner than the new TSX. But that Legend, and it's predecessor, to me were "generically" handsome. I've seen a couple of the new TSX, I think they look better in person than in print. Not the new "Shield of Acura" grille insert, however!

Best vehicle for $40,000

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