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Honda Accord (1990-1993) Maintenance and Repair

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Comments

  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    The bleeding isn't soo bad, just a matter of making sure you get all the air out, starting with the wheel furthest from the MC. Oh, what model is it, EXs w/ABS have a separate reservour that I think requires being bled also, IIRC.
  • 397864397864 Member Posts: 8
    WHY GET RID OF IT ALL THE WORK AND MONEY YOU PUT INTO IT, I HAVE A 1992 ACCORD COUPE 5 SPEED THAT RUNS AWESOME AND LOOKS AWESOME, THINK TWICE. :)
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Bleeding is much easier with a vacume pump. Two other advantages of the vacume pump are you don't need another person, and the old fashioned way causes many master cylinders to fail. When the brake pedal goes to the floor, the rod is pushed much further than it usually goes, so if there is any corrosion on the shaft, it tears up the seals. This is the Honda recommended sequence.
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  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I am a tie rod changin' mad-man. I can't tell you how many people have come up to me and said they were getting a new car because of the steering not working right on their Accord. Many times its a clunk over bumps, sometimes its a cluck when turning, or vibration on the highway felt through the steering. Grab the wheel at 3 and 6 and wiggle back and forth. If it rattles, I would replace tie rod. The big thing to remember is how many threads it takes to unscrew it, so you know how far to put the new one on.
    45 minutes and <$100 later, they are on their way again. The other thing is the upper control arm ball joint. If you have your hands at 12 and can push pull, thats likely the culprit.
  • 1992rustbucket1992rustbucket Member Posts: 5
    Thanks Elroy. That diagram is very helpful. I've looked into vacuum pumps before and they seem to be priced for mechanics. Are there cheaper ones out there that aren't so expensive? Also, I read somewhere that you should pre-fill the master cylinder before installation but I can't figure out how the fluid would not leak.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    What I have is a small hand held vacume pump. I don't remember how much it cost, but if it would have been a lot, I would not have one. It also comes in handy for testing vacume systems (with the gauge). If you put the cap on the master cylinder, it should not leak out. I would not put too much in, just enough to bench bleed the MC.
  • FukuyamaFukuyama Member Posts: 75
    Hi all,
    I am thinking of doing the oil change. So many types and 5-30 10-40 I don't really know which one to put in. My honda has 133k miles. Some mechanics say the thicker the better, some other says put the oil the manual says....what do you think? :confuse: :confuse:
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    what the manufacturer recommends.
  • FukuyamaFukuyama Member Posts: 75
    thought about that but the manufacturer recommends Dextron for transmission fluid, and I learnt here, dextron makes shifting harder(i used atf-z1 from h-dealer :confuse: )...that;s why i am in doubt :confuse:
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    i've never ever known honda to recommend anything other than Honda ATF for their transmission fluid.

    but you asked about engine oil right, or did i misread your post?
  • mrbill1957mrbill1957 Member Posts: 823
    Actually yes, Honda listed it in the owners manuals. My 88 Accord says Dexron fluid for the transmission. I guess it was a useable substitution, but it did cause a harder shifting trans.

    For the question Fukuyama posted, I would go with what the manual says for the weight of the motor oil.

    Mrbill
  • FukuyamaFukuyama Member Posts: 75
    I have the owner manual for my 1990 honda accord and says transmission fluid----- DEXTRON only! thnaks god I knew this forum! so i followed your advice.

    on the oil change issue, I wonder if the mileage(133k miles) changes the type of oil to be used. any help on this? Should I use 5-30W or a higher grade 20-50W
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    The reason older Accord manuals say to use Dextron ATF is because Honda had not developed their own ATF Z-1 at that time. The new Honda fluid is better than Dextron. I would use the Honda fluid.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    on the oil change issue, I wonder if the mileage(133k miles) changes the type of oil to be used. any help on this? Should I use 5-30W or a higher grade 20-50W

    The grade of oil represents viscosity, kind of how the oil thickness (water has low viscosity, maple syrup has high viscosity).
    In the old days, the rings around the pistons and the seals around the valves would wear out and the car would burn oil (and the main bearings would wear, also). To minimize the effect of all this wear, thicker oils were used to cushion bearings and minimize oil burning from bad valve seals and rings.
    This shouldn't be the case with a maintained motor made in the last 20 years. The same way your blood pressure can go up with high cholesterol, thicker oil raises your oil pressure which can blow seals, etc. It also increases friction in the motor and can reduce fuel economy.

    Sorry for the long winded-ness but I would keep using what the manufacturer recommends, 5w30. Some of the "high mileage" oils have a slightly different detergent package and supposedly condition older seals and what not, but I am not sure. The Accord has had Castrol GTX 5w30 every ~5k or so for the last 150k (okay, 143k) and there have been no oil burning issues.
  • cstout73cstout73 Member Posts: 9
    I too have a 1993 Honda Accord that I think the Master Cyliner is going. I have replaced the pads and they are good but the brake pedal is soft. I dont think its the power assist (I followed the Haynes Book to check). I am considering buying a OEM master cylinder and replace it myself but I don't know how to bleed the brakes or change the brake fluid with ABS brakes. 1992RustBucket - Did you do it yourself? How did it go? Can anyone give me some tips?
    My experience: I haven't bleed brakes before. I have changed pads several times. I replace the radiator myself.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Here is a link that may be helpful. There should be instructions on how to bench-bleed the MC with the MC when you buy one. Good luck.
    http://syclone.motocrew.com/CG5/brakebleed.htm
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    The master cylinder usually goes out shortly after a pad change. If the fluid has not been changed often the moisture in the fluid will cause the MC shaft to rust. When bleeding the brakes, when the pedal goes to the floor, it pushes the rusted and mostly unused portion of the shaft through the seals, tearing them up. This is why I recommend using a vacume pump to bleed the brakes, instead of the old fashioned way of pumping the brake pedal.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    The master cylinder usually goes out shortly after a pad change. If the fluid has not been changed often the moisture in the fluid will cause the MC shaft to rust. When bleeding the brakes, when the pedal goes to the floor, it pushes the rusted and mostly unused portion of the shaft through the seals, tearing them up. This is why I recommend using a vacume pump to bleed the brakes, instead of the old fashioned way of pumping the brake pedal.

    Unless you are some totally anal freak who actually changes the brake fluid every 2 years or so :blush:
  • cstout73cstout73 Member Posts: 9
    Here is my plan - I am going to purchase a new Master Cylinder (I am assuming this is the reason for the soft brakes - 140k miles on the car & I have never changed brake fluid), get some new blake fluid, and install the master cylinder and replace brake fluid WITHOUT using the recommended ABS Checker/Scanner.
    Anyone see any issues with that??? Whats the worst that could happen? I am assume too that the booster is good.
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    I think you should just bleed the brakes. I've always done my own vehicle repair, and we have easily over a million miles on our vehicles over the years.....and I've NEVER had a master cylinder go bad.

    Had to replace and/or rebuild a number of brake cylinders, replaced a number of calipers. Master cylinders? Never even on our very old very high mileage vehicles.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I have replaced the MC, as has Elroy.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Honda maintenance schedule says to change the brake fluid every 3 years (no matter what the miles are). I plan to do it every 3 years, so maybe I will not have to change the MC on this car. The service manual for my 03 Accord says to bleed the brake lines only (not the abs). It does say to activate the abs (make the abs system activate), then bleed the brakes again. My fluid was not that bad (first 3 years of the car's life), so I decided that was not necessary this time. When the MC went out on my old car, the fluid was very dirty.
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    But if he has never bled the brakes, to change the fluid and get any air out of the lines....why would one jump to recommend a MC replacement? That would be the last thing on the list.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Yes, if he hasn't tried bleeding the brakes, he should try that first. Even if the MC does turn out to be bad, the lines will already have clean fluid in them.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Put me on that list, after about 160k miles on the car. (1996 Accord LX)
  • aoroaoro Member Posts: 1
    I have the same problem on my 1991 honda accord ,what was the fix on yours if you don't mind sharing thanks.
  • 2spic4u2spic4u Member Posts: 1
    I have a 1990 Honda Accord, after I park the car within 10-15 minutes the cooling fan goes on while the car is off... Its on for about an hour to two hours and makes a clicking sound near the relay... its stops momentarily..makes clicking sounds...then starts up again... & it doesnt stop until it drains my battery.. I changed the relay twice and realized that this isnt the problem...
    Anyone know what may be the problem?

    Any help would great!
  • FukuyamaFukuyama Member Posts: 75
    speaking a about brakes...I have never touched the brake fluid system in 6 years in my 1990 accord. though, I replaced the brakes pads/rotors or disk(where the pads press onto), a year ago... when you say bleeding the brake system is the same as changing the brake fluid?

    Another questions for the gang here...the manuals says I should put tires P185 70R14 87S with 29 psi front and rear...The new tires I put are P195 65R15 89T.....should I use the same pressure the manual says? or it varies depending on the tires? :confuse: :confuse:

    cheers :confuse: :confuse:
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    It's probably the fan timer, but you should read this link first, to make sure. Good luck

    http://techauto.bravehost.com/

    Click on "overheating" and scroll down.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I have the same problem on my 1991 honda accord ,what was the fix on yours if you don't mind sharing thanks.

    That was the M/C going out. Within a couple of days, it didn't matter if the AC was on or off, and it would always pull very hard to one side when it was close to stopped.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    If the brakes feel spongy, or seem to push back up on your foot, there is probably air in the system (need to bleed them). If the pedal sinks, you either have a leak somewhere, or the Master Cylinder is going out.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    So with the availability of summer gas, fuel mileage has returned. One tank @ 32 mpg and 1 tank at 35 mpg up from 27/28 on the winter stuff.
    T-stat is fine, the car runs at normal operating temp in the winter, and typically runs the defroster without the AC if its possible to get away with it.
  • FukuyamaFukuyama Member Posts: 75
    Another question since I am doing some mechanics... I had some oil getting into the spark plug's chamber(were the spark plugs go in). So I took my honda to the mechanic and he changed the gasket around the engine and put some sealant (two months ago). Back then Oil was leaking into three of the chambers. No I did the oil change and checked the spark plugs, I am still getting oil in chamber 2-3 (middle ones). Is that too bad? Did the mechanic did a lousy job? Can I drie the car like that?
    :confuse: :confuse: :confuse: :sick:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well if he put sealant around a valve cover gasket that's not too cool but if he's careful that might be okay (sealant goop can get sucked into the engine's oil galley's, which is NOT GOOD).

    But, presuming the valve cover gasket was put on properly, you might check your Positive Crankcase Ventilation valve to see if it's plugged up. If it is, you will build up excessive crankcase pressure and this will push oil out of the valve cover gasket no matter how much you goop it up.

    Also check the gasket on your oil filler cap.
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    When you say 'into the chamber'.....are you referring to inside the cylinder (inside the engine) where the spark plug fires?....or are you saying on the outside of the engine and outside of sparkplug at it's base?
  • FukuyamaFukuyama Member Posts: 75
    sorry for the confusion...no, not inside of the engine, but outside.where the spark plug is connected to the distributor through cables. sorry for my lack of technical words :(
  • FukuyamaFukuyama Member Posts: 75
    PVC was broken and was replaced at the same time as the gasket ....I will check it again ..thank you
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Also if the valve cover is tightened down too much that will cause the gasket to spread out and leak or worse, the valve cover to bend.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Since the gasket has been changed, and the oil is still getting in, it's probably the o-rings under the rocker arm assembly. If you look down the spark plug tubes there are two seams that the oil can leak through. The valve cover and the second seam is where the rocker arm assembly is. This is a much more difficult job than just changing the valve cover gasket. A mechanic who's worked on these engines before should have checked that out. :sick:
  • FukuyamaFukuyama Member Posts: 75
    hi el roy and shiftright,
    I followed your recommendation and after checking , I am impressed I drove from Florida to Canada like this.

    1. I checked the oil filler cap, and there is no gasket or o ring around. :sick:
    2. Since shiftright mentioned hte valve cover being too tightened down, Ichecke the 10 mm bolts and they were rather loose! :sick: so I tigthened them down for good(not to the extreme)

    3. I was oing to check the PVC. but I was in doubt on how to pull it off..so please let me now how to get it out. Is it screwed to the engine or just comes off by puling it out? I checked the hose and it is sucking air in??(makes vaccum).
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Ichecke the 10 mm bolts and they were rather loose! so I tigthened them down for good(not to the extreme)

    The little nuts on top of the valve cover are only supposed to be tightened to 7 lbft. If you try to tighten them too much, you risk snapping the little stud, which would be a major problem.

    I checked the oil filler cap, and there is no gasket or o ring around.

    The o-rings are under the rocker-arm assembly. You cannot see them unless you remove the valve cover and the rocker-arm assembly.

    What I was saying was to look down the spark plug tube (you may need a flashlight). There are two seams which oil can leak through (one for the valve cover, and one for the rocker arms). Since the valve cover gasket has been changed, and oil is still leaking in to the tube, the o-rings are probably the culprit.

    To check the PCV valve, squeeze the hose with a pair of pliers, if you hear the little ball rattle around the PCV is working.
  • FukuyamaFukuyama Member Posts: 75
    hi el roy
    To check the PCV valve, squeeze the hose with a pair of pliers, if you hear the little ball rattle around the PCV is working.
    i did the hose trick on the pvc, but the hose is not too flexible so i was afraid of breaking it. That is why I wanted to pull the pvc out. I could see some oil aroung the o ring under the pvc though.

    he little nuts on top of the valve cover are only supposed to be tightened to 7 lbft. If you try to tighten them too much, you risk snapping the little stud, which would be a major problem.

    there were too loose(I could move them with my fingers)so I tigthened them carefully(I had read a cooment about this on this forum, and the o ring issue you have mentioned before). I fit is that, there is nothing I can do but take it to a mechanic
  • cstout73cstout73 Member Posts: 9
    93 Accord SE
    I was bleeding my brakes per another posting and successfully did that but I noticed the passenger side outer CV joint boot was split. The grease was all over. I don't hear any clicking and haven't. I don't think I have been driving very long with it split. My thought is to just change all 4 boots now. The question I have besides how to do that, is should I change all for boots with replacment boots (Cheap option)? use a split boot to fix it (even cheaper), or replace both axles ($$??)? I plan on doing the work my self, I think, pending costs.
    Any thoughts? 145k miles on car.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    It depends how long you plan to keep the car. The best solution (and most costly) would be to replace the axle with the CVs already in place. As an over-simplification, pop out the old one, pop in the new one.
    A second choice, lower cost, more labor intensive and with slightly higher risk, is to remove the axle and rebuild/repack the CV and install a new boot. Once the boot breaks, all the grease is contaminated and you have to clean the old stuff out before you can put the new stuff in. Also, if the joint was damaged by driving with low/no/bad grease, it will never be 100%.
    A third choice is to wipe off all the grease you can, apply new grease and throw one of those "split-boot" covers on there. This is the cheapest, but also the riskiest and least durable.
    I have replaced an axle and rebuilt an axle, neither are particularly hard, the most challenging part for me was to get the axle nut off the hub.
  • cstout73cstout73 Member Posts: 9
    I want to keep it for a long time. I think I'll buy new a new axle. I should probably get one for the driver side too. Any suggestions on manufacturers? I checked the web and some sites are selling axles for $70 - which is great. I can't tell if they are new or rebuilt. I would like a new OEM one if possible.
    Lilengineerboy - Any tips with the hub nut? Long breaker bar? Any other tools I may need? Puller?
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I wouldn't worry about "preventative maintenance" with the axles. Just replace the bad one. The best deals I have found on OEM parts is from Majestic Honda (google it) and going through their parts selection thingie. Better still they show good exploded view diagrams. I wouldn't be overly afraid of a rebuilt unit, they are pretty simple devices and as long as the spec. for wear is met, they should provide good service.

    I broke a Craftsman 22" breaker bar with a 3' pipe over handle. That was ultimately why I got an air compressor/impact wrench. I have heard of people wedging the wrench on the ground and driving forward, but that wrench can break and fly off and hit someone or the car or what not. I believe the torque spec for the nut is <200 fl-lbs so it really shouldn't be *that* hard to get off.

    You will need a puller to separate the lower ball joint so you can get the axle through the spindle. I didn't need a puller for the axle itself though. The car has a manual transmission so the procedure might be different for an automatic, but I remember having to drain it before pulling the axle out (actually, on a previous vehicle I remember not draining it and it emptying on my face as I laid upside down under the car... :sick: I smelled of 100k trans fluid for a week.

    Oh, and make sure you replace the hardware on the axle (one of the cars used a clip on the end to snap into the trans, I can't remember which one now).
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    You can pull the axles, and then take the boots apart and clean out all the old grease. If the joints look good, I'd just grease them up and put new boots on them. If the bearing surfaces are worn(pitted) or discolored, then replace the shafts.

    The disadvantage to this approach, is that you won't be able to buy the parts ahead of time, until you figure out what you really need.....so the vehicle will be out of commission longer. The advantage is that you buy and repair only what you need to. If this is a 2nd or 3rd vehicle, then just take it apart to figure out what is really needed.
  • cstout73cstout73 Member Posts: 9
    UPDATE
    I bought the "Quick Boot" and tried that on. Its messy, doens't fit right, the steel bands are crap. Furthermore, the boot is too big, it seems. I think its going to rub on the fork while I drive it. OK - So I bought a new axle. Got the HUB NUT OFF! Not easy or safe. I am stuck on the lower control arm to knuckle ball joint. The Haynes book says use a puller to remove it. I have tried with not success. I think my puller may not be big enough. Any advice, tricks, tips?? I am so close.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    I have never tried this myself, but some claim they have cut two 2 by 4s and propped them under the joint, put the nut on to protect the threads, then wacked it with a hammer. You can easily screw up the threads or something else trying this, so use this information at your own risk. ;)
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Most autoparts stores (Murrays, I believe Kragen/Shrucks will loan tools (actually you buy them and return them, but they expect you to do this) and there is a "front end kit" that comes with the various pullers. I have always used that kit when I've done axles or anything with the front suspension (tie rods, shocks, upper control arms, etc). I guess what I am saying is get a better puller. That lower ball joint is separately replaceable from the lower control arm but needs to be pressed in, meaning the part is cheap but it requires some special tools to do it according to my manual, so its best not to mess it up.
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