Wouldn't Be Caught Dead Driving One

fintail · May 2008

Pretty much, yeah. Seeing as how pointless they really are for 95% of their buyers...and those who actually do have a use for them aren't the ones showing off.

nwng · May 2008

throw in some more corollas, rabbits, civics, a few accord/camry size cars and you have pretty much what people drives in the rest of the world.

Oh, and execellent diesel engines.

whittonm · May 2008

- Pontiac Aztek
- Any GM vehicle with plastic slathered on bottom half
- Chevette
- BMW X3, 1 Series hardtop
- Geo Metro
- New Honda Accord
- Most Saturns, expecially ION
- 1968 Plymouth Belvedere (still emotionally scarred by using it to take date to the Prom)
- Lada (for you Canadians), also Hyundai Pony
- Lumina Minivan
- Ford Maverick
- Ford Tempo, Mercury Topaz
- Cadillac Cimarron
- AMC Gremlin, Hornet
- Austin Marina, turns into rust before your eyes
- Datsun B210

davethecarnut · May 2008

AMC Gremlin, Hornet

What???!! You liked the Pacer??!!

andre1969 · May 2008

I think the Pacer's kinda cool, in a reverse-chic sort of way. But I don't think I could handle a Gremlin or Hornet. Maybe if the Hornet was one of those performance models...I think they called them the S/C 360 or something like that?

I'm curious what the beef was with the '68 Belvedere? I always thought the '68-70 Plymouth intermediates were gorgeous. But IIRC, the Belvedere was the bottom feeder by that time, basically what they used for taxis and police cars. The nicer ones were Satellites, Roadrunners, or GTXes. And I guess, if it was a ratted-out used car by the time prom came around, it would be an embarrassment.

uplanderguy · May 2008

I am throwing myself out there for humiliation by others, as we own an '08 Cobalt XFE (purely for unbelievably low cost and good MPG) and a Chevy Uplander minivan in Sport Red (hey, except for the Venture look from straight on in the back, I think the best-looking minivan out there, mostly due to the bigger factory tires and wheels!), a car I just always hated was the '90's VW Jetta. And people loved it and thought it was a status symbol! I wouldn't necessarily say it was ugly styling, just a total lack of styling. Small wheel openings. Small tires and wheels. Rear door is a complete upright square cut-out. No styling in rear. No styling in front. UGGGGGGHHHH!

Bill

uplanderguy · May 2008

I think the 1968 (and to only a slightly lesser degree, the '69, and an even lesser degree, the '70) Plymouth Satellite is the most attractively styled Mopar ever built. I think there's not a bad line on the car. I guess this would cover Road Runners and GTX's too, and even Belvedere coupes. I even like them in that ubiquitous light urine-y green that seemed so popular!

Bill

andre1969 · May 2008

I am throwing myself out there for humiliation by others, as we own an '08 Cobalt XFE (purely for unbelievably low cost and good MPG) and a Chevy Uplander minivan in Sport Red

I know the Cobalt tends to take a lot of criticism, but there are a few things about it I like. Mainly the front seats. I've heard complaints about them having poor support, contouring, or whatever, but the Cobalt is actually one of the few small cars I could actually stretch out in. So just for that, I have to give the car some credit. Now on the downside, the back seat feels pretty cramped, but it's rare that I get chauffeured around in my own car, so I'd rather they put more effort into the front seat. What kind of fuel economy do you get with the Cobalt? It doesn't seem so hot, according to the EPA estimates, but at least you get a fairly powerful engine as a tradeoff. And then, like you said, there's the low price.

As for the Uplander, I really don't care for them, and that front end they worked onto them in the final years to try to make them look more SUV-ish. But then, I don't think there's a minivan out there that I can say turns me on. It's just the nature of the beast. They're not meant to be sexy. They're meant to be functional.

uplanderguy · May 2008

We have only 800-some miles on it so far (only have had it ten days) but it is EPA-rated at 25 city, 36 highway. All stick-shift LS and 1LT Cobalts built after 3/17/08 are the XFE model where Chevy played around with the fifth-gearing, computer mapping and put easier-rolling tires (read that as cheap Goodyear Integritys!) on it. Apparently even the cheapest Cobalts before 3/17 came with 'touring' tires. Supposedly the 36 highway MPG is highest in its class.

The invoice was $14,909--we started there. There was a total of $3,000 in rebates, my $1,500 in GM Card monies was upped to $2,000 until 6/2, and I got $2,400 for my old Cavalier with 112K miles. I think I did well.

Bill

fintail · May 2008

I don't see anything wrong with a Cobalt, inoffensive decent enough car....but those minivans have never won me over. Luckily I don't have a reason to buy a vehicle that size, so I'll never have to go there.

andre1969 · May 2008

So it sounds like this Cobalt ended up selling for about $7500? I'd say that's a helluva deal. Sounds like, for once, it was the dealer that did the squealing, more than the buyer.

uplanderguy · May 2008

Yep, $14,909, less $3,000, less $2,000, less $2,400 trade-in. Sales tax in OH is the price of the new car less the trade (in this case $12,509; the rebates are considered 'cash down'). My dealer charged a $250 document fee which I think is horse*hit; however, the Chevy dealer three miles down the road owned by another family charges the same thing. So out the door I paid $8,638.50, which was less than my '02 Cavalier with a similar trade-in. I am very happy with the car at that price, especially. The sticker was $15,465.00. Again, it's a 5-speed, and the only options I chose are ABS and the Protection Package (carpeted floor mats and body side moldings). A/C is standard, as is satellite radio now..at least for three months! The dealer had to get the car from a dealer five hours away, too, so I especially can't complain.

Bill

sixfive · May 2008

FOUR TWO - No way I'd ever been seen in one of those. Better gas mileage to be had from many many other cars that are also compact for city driving. What is the catch? Not the mileage, not the price, not value. Looks or cool factor? I say Diamler pulls the plug on the US Smart market unless gas goes to 8 buks.

JETTA - The best chick car ever! Hey I'm a dude

PLYMOUTH HORIZON, DODGE OMNI - no need to expound

K CAR and other 2.2 lITER DERIVATIVES (Lebaron) - Experiences via family ownership were horrible: blown trannies at 20k, burnt turbos at 25k and worst of all - they looked like trash and sounded like an old man wheezing when you pressed the gas. I can't believe they saved the company with this car...but they did.

PRIUS - It's not an anti-green thing, it's that I can't been seen in an automobile that is about being seen being green.

BMW 3 SERIES - Does everyone who needs to make a statment really have to buy the best car in the segment and then muck it up for everyone else. Great car, not the image for me. Never have met a car guy that owns one (sans M3). Maybe I'm more image conscience than the 3 owners with whom I attempt to disassociate with. Interesting. :shades:

NEW BEETLE: See Jetta above. Old beetles magically are cooler now that they are no longer made. In 70's - not cool.

hpmctorque · May 2008

So, what do you drive, sixfive? Also, which model(s) do you prefer to the 3-Series?

sixfive · May 2008

I drive a G35 Sedan, arguably a better driving (not interior lux) car at the time of the e39 platfom, which was aging at the time- at least that's what I rested my decision on 5.5 years ago. As well as the attitude the car evokes in my own world of dimented perception.

Just picked up a 2009 Murano as well - of course not a choice for sports sedan folks, but practical and fun toys galore. It drives ok, but we passed on an FX.

At least it's not a woody panel PT cruiser, which i should have on my list!

snakeweasel · May 2008

FOUR TWO - No way I'd ever been seen in one of those. Better gas mileage to be had from many many other cars that are also compact for city driving.

Sorry other than hybrids no other gas powered car comes close to the Smart in gas mileage. I found the Smart to be a fun car to drive.

PLYMOUTH HORIZON, DODGE OMNI - no need to expound

Had one, it was a good car handled pretty good and was somewhat fun to drive. Someone made a left turn infront of me and ended up getting another this time it was a GLH, that was a blast.

hpmctorque · May 2008

Nice!

sixfive · May 2008

The 4-2 has a hard core jittery ride. I guess I'd have to change my expectations about why you own a car - I don't live in the city. Also, the mileage is good but not better than some larger and SAFER cars. Safety in head on collssions and other potential disaster is an issue if you drive in the NE and sitting on the rear axle of a car is not for everyone. Also, the roads are horrible here. If I live in south FLA again, it could make sense.

The GLH was a great car among a bunch of lame compacts, except for the GTI. I used to love the turbo lagged punch the 2.2 could provide, for a while anyway, in that smaller lighter package. My sister had the vanilla omni and I remember not being able to pass a loaded garbage truck.

karsick · May 2008

Most cars are acceptable, but to me it's the add-on choices that speak VOLUMES about the owner/driver.

For instance, most plain-jane pickups project a positive image (no-nonsense, hard-working, sensible), but when tarted up with silly jacked-up pavement-queen bits (or slammed on hydraulics & Dayton wires), they are embarrassing beyond belief.

Honda Civics are nice, efficient transport, but when "tuned" by a pimply, hormone-enraged F&F fanboy, they become a buzzy, annoying tribute to bad taste & lousy driving.

I find most Tahoes & Yukons inoffensive, but if they're sportin' "dubs", limo-tint & necklaces hanging from the interior mirror, the IQ of the driver is magically lower than their shoe size, and you can count on them having the stereo cranked WAY up & the windows half-down so that we can hear there mindless FM-radio crap. :sick:

08blackrt · July 2008

Chickmobiles! My ex-GF had a VW Cabriolet, and I was totally humiliated driving it, or even being seen in it! She claimed to have never heard the term "Chickmobile" until I said it when I made the first comments about it. She currently has a Mini, another chickmobile, IMO.

Any tiny cars. Just for comfort's sake, and most of them are truly stupid looking on top of it. I have size 14 feet, and a lot of cars are torture for me to even be in for a short period. I use my feet as the first hurdle a vehicle has to pass when I consider buying one. A lot of them just aren't right for someone with big feet! I don't like my knees up against the dash either..

Small Pickups. All the problems of the tiny cars, with less gas milage, and a worse ride.

Any car or truck with huge wheels. A friend recently bought a Ford F150 at a great price, with 22 or 24" wheels on it. It looked ridiculous! He put the wheels on Ebay, and got a ton of money for them. He bought some sanely sized wheels and tires for it, and still had $600 left! 20" wheels are as big as I would ever want to go, on a car or truck. Giant wheels slow the vehicle down, are fragile, and ride bad too. They look even worse..

sixfive · July 2008

Anyone notice a gender tendancy behind the Eos wheel? It seems to fit in nicely where the Cabrio left off, and the waning beetle of course.

hpmctorque · March 2011

Those four door coupes from Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Volkswagen, Acura and Honda are among my least favorite vehicles. I think they're overpriced, for what you get, porky, and, to my eyes, ugly.

andre1969 · March 2011

Are you talking about those raised-up hatchback things that are sort of a reincarnation of the old hunchback '78-79 Cutlass Salon and Century? I agree, those things are ugly, fat, not that roomy, and for the most part I don't see their point. I remember at the DC auto show last year, when we first saw them, the BMW actually wasn't that bad. At least it was kinda roomy, both front and rear, and had some storage space. But the Honda and Acura versions just seemed useless in all respects.

Is Volkswagen making one of those things, too? When you said "4-door coupe", I was also thinking of car like the Benz CLS or VW Passat CC. I do kinda like those. They remind me a bit of the old hardtop sedans of a bygone era. Even though they come with a B-pillar these days, overall they're still pretty sleek compared to the regular sedans.

hpmctorque · March 2011

Yeah, those are the ones to which I'm referring. Sure, there's a certain similarity with the '78-'79 Cutlass and Century, although I hadn't thought of that until you mentioned it. It's an interesting comparison, but to me the the Cutlass and Century of those years were more logical than these new coupes, because, (1) the pricing premiums over their Malibu and LeMans counterparts were consistent with their pricing differentials were consistent with the brands, and, (2) they didn't sacrifice space efficiency or interior configuration (eg. headroom).

Come to think of it, the X-car models reversed the sedan/hatchback order, with the more popular priced Celebrity and Phoenix sedans being fastbacks and the more premium priced Omega and Skylark featuring notchback styling.

Although styling is largely a matter of taste, I prefer the looks of the BMW 5-Series, Mercedes E-Class and Passat sedans to their 4-door coupe counteparts.

It's late, so maybe I didn't express my points very logically.

hpmctorque · February 2013

The brand I'd least like to own is the Smart.

michaellno · February 2013

The brand I'd least like to own is the Smart.

+1 on that!

hpmctorque · April 2013

Do you think you'll ever own a diesel or hybrid? Yes, probably, maybe, never? Why/why not?

I could see myself owning a diesel, but not a hybrid, unless there's a major breakthrough in battery technology. Whatever I buy has to make economic sense, without government incentives, and be fun to drive.

qbrozen · April 2013

I want a diesel hybrid!
Really really want VW to give us that 3-row version they showed off at the auto show. That would most certainly be my wife's next vehicle if it delivers as promised.

stever · April 2013

We just happen to have a few posts about that very subject on the next block. :shades:

fintail · April 2013

Have a diesel now, it's a great car. 35.3 mpg yesterday on a mixed suburban/highway run, doesn't have 1000 miles on it yet so not even close to being broken in. Not a "fun" car in a sporty way, but it's a nice ride and has plenty of power.

Diesel hybrid sounds interesting, but a Prius is still probably too dorky for my delicate ego :shades:

lemko · April 2013

...you will really know the SHTF!

andre1969 · April 2013

...you will really know the SHTF!

Well, there is this hybrid...

I don't think they ran that ad for very long, although it did spawn a few bumper stickers. Just as the Cummins Diesel did. :shades:

fintail · April 2013

Nice. Like what I call the fintail hybrid - it burns gas and oil :shades:

andre1969 · April 2013

I used to hear jokes that "GTO" stood for "Gas, Tires, Oil". Would that make one a "Trybrid"?

I think cars have gotten to the point that I actually might consider a hybrid, but it would be something like a Ford Fusion, or possibly a slightly-used Altima. Something that looked like a "normal" car rather than dorky.

My driving habits would never justify one based solely on cost savings, but I do like the idea of having to fill up less often.

lemko · April 2013

Of course, there's a certain 1980 Cadillac Seville Diesel looking for the perfect victi ...er... I mean owner! :P

andre1969 · April 2013

I almost forgot about that Seville. I have a feeling that guy still owns it, too!

[Deleted User] · April 2013

1) 1990 Ford Festiva
2) 2012 Fiat 500
3) 1992 Plymouth Acclaim
4) 2002 Pontiac Aztec

Absolute, worst car ever: 1985 Yugo GV. It had a rear defroster, supposedly to keep your hands warm while you pushed it.

andre1969 · April 2013

I can sort of understand three of those four, as the Aztek is pretty ugly, and the Festiva is just too tiny and fragile feeling. And for me at least, the 500 is just too cute and little, and falls into the same category as a VW Cabriolet.

But, why the Plymouth Acclaim? Did you have bad a personal experience with one? I've ridden in and driven a few Acclaims and Spirits back in the day, and while there's not too much compelling about them, I don't remember anything out and out "bad" about them. They were supposed to be Chrysler's "midsize" car, taking over for the old Dodge 600 and Plymouth Caravelle. But they seemed to be sized as sort of a "tweener" car...a bit bigger than a Tempo or Corsica, but a bit smaller than a Taurus or Lumina.

Personally, I'd rather have an Acclaim than a Corsica or Tempo (one reason I hate the Tempo is that my stepdad had one, and it brings back bad childhood memories). I'd take one of a Lumina as well. Probably a toss-up between an Acclaim and a Taurus of that era, although I'm not exactly clamoring to re-experience either one!

I'll give you the Yugo, though! I can't think of one nice thing to say about that car!

uplanderguy · April 2013

First car that jumps in my mind would be a Renault Alliance or Encore, followed by an AMC Spirit, then a Gremlin, then a Hornet four-door. I'd find them embarrassing (and this from a guy who loves Studebakers!

)

I'd hate an Aztek too. Probably next on my list would be a Ford Aspire ('aspire to an Escort, next?') and a Geo Metro.

Current vehicles? As I've mentioned before, I think the Cube is the ugliest vehicle since the dawn of prehistory. I hate the Juke, although I have to say the Buick Encore resembles a chromed-up Juke in some aspects IMHO.

xrunner2 · April 2013

1) 1990 Ford Festiva
2) 2012 Fiat 500
3) 1992 Plymouth Acclaim
4) 2002 Pontiac Aztec

No doubt someone already mentioned Smart. That has got to be at the top of the list.

Not available yet, but the batman/batcar looking new Corvette needs to be added to the list. Who besides young boys, who can't drive or buy it, along with guys with gold chain necklaces would like the styling of this car? And, what about the safety of a Corvette in the event of a head-on collision.

fintail · April 2013

That Corvette will be a smash sales hit, just wait. It might be good that certain people don't work in the auto industry

The Plymouth Acclaim being mentioned earlier strikes me as odd, too. While a bland invisible car, it wasn't particularly bad - just a larger updated K-car. Can't say it is more objectionable than a Corsica or Tempo.

andre1969 · April 2013

I probably wouldn't drive most of those low-slung, sporty cars, mainly because they're hard for me to get in and out of. Plus, most of them tend to scream "LOOK AT ME", and I'm just not that much of an attention whore. I don't do a whole lot of driving these days, and usually don't go all that fast, so I simply wouldn't get that much use out of one.

As for crash protection, I'm sure the Corvette would score pretty well. Just as long as you don't go up under a truck or something!

uplanderguy · April 2013

I don't imagine the Corvette would be any less safe than anything else like it it's sold against.

I tend to not like driving real showy cars either (obviously!)--I call it the 'car as phallic symbol' thing. That said, I'm blowing myself out of the water on that one as I would enjoy owning a new Corvette at some point after the kids are out of the house, and my wife is even 'in' on that plan! I would buy as low-key a 'Vette as possible though--absolutely not red, yellow, white, silver, or black--I like 'Carlisle Blue' on the C6--and I'd buy the standard wheels and probably pretty much the standard car to keep the price down, although I'd insist on the glass top. And no personalized license plate!

It's definitely a 'car as phallic symbol' too, obviously, but I think its history and heritage and really, being the only American product like it (I link Mustangs to Camaros; also, Vipers compete but IMHO don't have the heritage and history), all that stuff overcomes that negative label.

Plus, what else would I take across Route 66? LOL

Again--it CAN"T be red, yellow, white, black, or silver!

uplanderguy · April 2013

The Plymouth Acclaim being mentioned earlier strikes me as odd, too. While a bland invisible car, it wasn't particularly bad - just a larger updated K-car. Can't say it is more objectionable than a Corsica or Tempo.

Agree totally. It looks like it would have been roomier inside than either a Corsica or Tempo.

I used to see oldsters driving them quite a bit around here, but can say the same about the majority of Studebaker Larks I remember seeing as a kid.

andre1969 · April 2013

The old Acclaim and Spirit were fairly space-efficient, and just to see how they stacked up, I pulled up the stats on Fueleconomy.gov.

Interior volumes were as follows:
Acclaim/Spirit: 97/14 (passenger volume/trunk space)
Corsica: 95/14
Tempo/Topaz: 89/13 (oddly, the 2-door was slightly larger, at 90/13 :confuse: )
Pontiac Grand Am: 90/13 (and oddly again, the 2-door was slightly larger at 91/13)

Interestingly, the old Dodge 600/Plymouth Caravelle, which the Spirit/Acclaim replaced, had the same passenger volume, 97 cubic feet, but a larger trunk, at 17. Somehow, the Spirit/Acclaim seemed smaller to me though. Maybe they were a bit shorter and narrower, but taller? Inside, they seemed to have a bit less shoulder room, but legroom was about the same. Perhaps headroom was greater, and that's what kept the interior volume the same?

I usually don't notice headroom differences in cars. It seems like I either fit okay, or I have to slouch. But once the clearance enough that I can lean forward without brushing my head against the ceiling, I really don't notice it. However, I do notice differences in shoulder and legroom more.

uplanderguy · April 2013

I notice legroom and headroom, but I don't really notice shoulder room. Even though our Malibu is considered a five-seater, for instance, I can think of maybe twice when we've had five people in it, and when we did we put a kid in that middle seat position in back.

With four people riding in it, shoulder room's not much of an issue for us.

andre1969 · April 2013

I usually tend to notice shoulder room, with regards to how jammed up (or not) I am against the door panel and armrest. However, sometimes a car with less shoulder room will have the seating position further from the door, then a car with more shoulder room. And, there can be such a thing as too much shoulder room. For instance, when the 1991 Caprice came out, it had something like 64-65" of shoulder room, whereas the 1990 was around 61.5". However, the seating position with respect to the center of the car seemed about the same to me. So, rather than making a roomier center seating position, it seemed like all it did was move the armrest out to where is was a bit too far away to be comfortable.

And, I was actually surprised when I read that the '08-12 Malibu only had 53.9" of shoulder room in back, I've been in a few, and I swear it seemed a lot roomier than that.

lemko · April 2013

I used to see a lot of those Dodge Spirits used as rally cars back in the day.

jipster · April 2013

The Mitsubishi V6 in the Spirit rental I had was fairly powerful from what I recall. Tore up those Smokey Mountains. :-)

andre1969 · April 2013

And for awhile, the Dodge Spirit R/T was about the most bang for the buck you could get. I think they got its 2.5 Turbo 4 up to something like 224 hp, and with a 5-speed stick 0-60 was around 5.9 seconds.

I guess that's still pretty impressive, even today. I'd imagine something like an Altima, Accord, or Camry can get close to that, with their V-6es. But, they're also using a lot more hp and torque to get those results!

Wouldn't Be Caught Dead Driving One

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