Wouldn't Be Caught Dead Driving One

ontop · December 2005

I have seen many many many Hondas and Toyotas go the distance with no problems. And I'v seen many Hyundais disappoint their owners.

Hyundai's reputation is dirt compared to Honda and Toyota. Get your head out of the ground and see what people want out there. It ain't Hyundai.

Go ahead and pick the sludge thing against Toyota, and try to convince the rest of the world they're mistaken buying a Toyota. Then ask em about Hyundai and get ready for the snickers.

danf1 · December 2005

before this turned into "I hate Hyundai, You love Hyundai." That's got to be a new record.

nayeric · December 2005

Any car with a stupid name that only last for 1 year. For example, element, beetle, passat, etc.

Currently, driving 2006 denali and 2002 gs 300 lexus
Previous cars
1998 BMW 318 Convertible
1994 Pathfinder
1988 Chevy Nova

I loved all my cars which I purchased all new.
However, I will take a ride in anything but purchasing is something different.

nippononly · December 2005

By coincidence I just finished reading Autoweek's annual round-up of the year, and Tribeca made an appearance in a funny piece where they basically suggested that gluing a dead weasel onto the grille would substantially improve its looks. And I'm not sure I disagree! LOL

bottgers · December 2005

There's nothing wrong with admitting you bought a car because it was cheap. However, there's a big problem buying a car because it was cheap and then trying to make yourself feel better by trying to convince everyone you bought it because it's built better, or even as good as something else when it clearly isn't. Instead of making yourself look bad by continuing to make ignorant statements, why don't you do a little research so in the future, you can post some credible statements?

john_324 · December 2005

"before this turned into "I hate Hyundai, You love Hyundai." That's got to be a new record."

Yeah, what's up with that?

I guess I'm weird, since I have no strong feelings about them one way or the other.

But I'll add another car to my list:

- GMC Yukon Denali

The closest SUV to the Simpsons' "Canyonero F (for "Female") Series" out there..."see Homer, instead of a cigarette lighter, it has a lipstick holder..."

snakeweasel · December 2005

Remember reputation is mostly perception and in many cases perception is not based on reality. My sister who takes her Toyota into the shop for non-routine stuff maybe three times a year talks about how reliable her car is, when its really not so.

I am truly convinced that if every Honda and Toyota fell to pieces two blocks from the dealer people would still be proclaiming how great they are. Its a cult type mentality.

Most people who actually buy Hyundais stand by them and would buy another. That does say something.

FWIW I know two Hyundai owners who used to have Toyotas that will not even look at toyotas due to the engine sludge problem.

snakeweasel · December 2005

I didn't buy the car because it was cheap, I bought an inexpensive car that everyone that I talked to that owned on was raving about. I bought a car that even back then everyone was proclaiming had really increased their quality. Being inexpensive did not sell me, what sold me is what people, especially those who drove the same car, were saying about it.

You see if I am interested in a car and I see someone at the gas station filling one up or lading something into it in the parking lot I ask them about it. These people raved about their cars so I took a chance. So far (130k miles) it has proven the correct choice as I put zero dollars into it other than routine maintience. My sister cannot say that for any of the toyotas she has had.

Will I buy another? Maybe, maybe not but I will have the Sonata on my short list for sure.

I have done my research and I stand by my statement that they make cars as well as anyone else even the Japanese. If you do your research you will find that others say the same.

andre1969 · December 2005

is simply that too many words in the English language have more than one meaning. For instance, "cheap", can mean low price, shoddy construction, low perception, low content, etc.

So I'd call a Hyundai a cheap car, but I wouldn't intend it as an insult. It is a low-priced car, so it does fit in that sense. As for shoddy construction, I dunno...I don't think I've seen a crappily put-together Hyundai/Kia in some time now. At least, looking at them new they seem okay. I see used ones that have been torn to hell, but I blame that on the owner and the way the car was treated moreso than how it was built. Low perception? Well, I wouldn't be ashamed of one, but I realize that others might be. If I like a car enough, I'm not going to care what others say about it. And low content? Definitely not in this case...usually Hyundais and Kias pack an awful lot of content and features into their cars for their given price point.

bottgers · December 2005

I guess you don't care about posting credible statements.

"Most people who actually buy Hyundais stand by them and would buy another."

My bother-in-law sells Toyotas and he would beg to differ with you on that one. He deals with customers every day who bring in their Korean vehicles (to include Hyundais) and can't wait to get rid of them because they absolutely hate them. On the other hand, he deals with many, many happy repeat Toyota owners.

Also, I'm not talking about perception, I'm talking about facts. FACT: Honda and Toyota has produced the most reliable vehicles over the last 20 years, not the Koreans. FACT: The Koreans were producing some of the most UNRELIABLE cars on the road as little as 5-10 years ago. FACT: while the Koreans have improve the quality of their vehicles, they have not achieved the same level of build quality as that of the best Japanese companies. It's possible they may never get there.

Keep making your ridiculous claims if you so desire.

nippononly · December 2005

Is everything OK, bottgers?

:confuse:

iluvmysephia1 · December 2005

for people like me. Toyota doesn't do squat for me. They try, but fall way short in the styling department.

Case in point: I, for a long while, decided that I wanted a Scion tC. Then, I realized that I would rather have a four-door rig, so I turned my attention to the Scion xA, mostly likely a purchase of a RS 1.0(used in Absolutely Red)or 2.0(new, in Blue Streak Mica). Well, those Toyota-built rigs are fine, but our 2001 Kia Sportage 4x4, which has never even burned out a single lightbulb, was treating us like royalty. Not only that but the OEM Hankook SUV tires lasted me 102,000 miles and still covered a nip of the top of Lincoln's head. These Kia's are tough and they are great snow-cruisers, too. It will take a better Kia than the one I have to get me out of my current Kia. That is what I am mulling over now, do I want the better gas mileage of the smaller 2006 Kia Rio5? Or the great 4WD capabilities and solid, rock-steady, reliable performance of our 2001 Kia Sportage 4x4. Decisions, decisions.

Needless to say, I dropped my interest in Scion automobiles. All the while, being a guy that constantly reads automotive news on the net, Kia was building their 2006 Rio5. I read about it and read some more and, lo and behold, the Rio5 came out and reviewers started driving it. Guess what? I started getting really interested in the 2006 Kia Rio5. Kia has done it again, offering a car that packs so much content into it that I can't ignore it. For a low price. Even if I pay retail for my Rio5, I will only give about $14,190. That is for a 2006 Kia Rio5 with a 5-speed manual tranny and hand-crank windows, non-power windows and locks. I look at that lack of power this way: those items will be reliable because they're manually-cranked, so it'a a plus for me.

Also, and this is how I think Kia has upped the Japanese, the body styling of the Rio5 is superior to anybody's bodystyling, anywhere. They are simply masters at their craft.

So, I get a car that still carries the industry's best Warranty, the Long-Haul Warranty, and I get a great looking little sparkplug in the new-world-order 2006 Kia Rio5.

Oh, why did I drop my interest in the Scion tC and xA, you might wonder? All kinds of ticky-tack problems, especially with the Scion tC. Scion doesn't back up their rigs with a decent Warranty, either. Why not?

So, Kia wins. Again.

Toyota is not good enough for me. Kia is. So, to me, Kia is the better carmaker.

nippononly · December 2005

A 3/36 B2B and 5/60 powertrain isn't "decent"? It is above the industry average. Of course, it aint no Hyundai Long Haul warranty. But nobody's is, except Hyundai and Kia.

If you drive stick, test drive the Rio5 before you get too excited. It has the sloppiest shifter I have witnessed in a long time. Apart from that, what you say is true: it's cute, has decent content for the price, and lots of safety equipment.

iluvmysephia1 · December 2005

a sloppy shifter isn't a deal-killer for me. Not in the least.

Also, that isn't what I've been reading in the reviews of the 2006 Kia Rio5 that I've read.

In contrast, they have described the shifter as being solid and sure, without a lot of poking around. I have read tons of reviews on the Rio5 and only one or two have said what you have said.

Once again, I think these things are up to the driver and how they feel about it. I wouldn't take what another driver says as being gospel about a shifter, anyway. A manufacturer's shifter's feel can vary from rig to rig, even within the same model, too. The Long-Haul would cover things like that and I would be owed a decent shifter if it didn't work right. I think that what you're talking about is shifter "feel" which is subjective according to driver. So, that argument sinks like the Titanic.

nippononly · December 2005

Hehehe, I LOVE your enthusiasm! Yes, of course shifter feel is subjective, but believe me when I say that my argument does NOT sink like the Titanic as far as how I feel about that model! Try it, and if you drive stick you will see what I mean. This would not be a warranty fix, by the way, it is just the way it is designed and built. I need to have a great shifter in the cars I drive, even if they are not sport-oriented models. It's just the way I am.

danf1 · December 2005

I can't remember where this was published, but 56% of Hyundai owners say that they will buy another. That lags only a few percentage points behind Honda and Toyota, and I believe ranks them in the top 5 among auto makers.

Edit
Just found the article. Its on Inside Line news posted on 12-9-05. They rank fifth overall.

lemko · December 2005

I don't see what is so hot about the Azera. The XG350 was far more attractive. The Azera looks like a Toyota Camry that fell out of the ugly tree, hit every branch on the way down, fell face first on the exposed roots, and then had the tree uproot and fall on it.

snakeweasel · December 2005

I guess you don't care about posting credible statements.

No I car about posting credible statements, I just don't mind if I post statements that you don't agree with.

My bother-in-law sells Toyotas

That says everything. I have worked enough in sales not to trust anything a salesperson says about their competition, especially if it is negative. If you want I can put you in touch with some Hyundai salespeople who will tell you about all the repeat Hyundai owners they have.

Also, I'm not talking about perception, I'm talking about facts. FACT: Honda and Toyota has produced the most reliable vehicles over the last 20 years, not the Koreans.

Last time I looked it wasn't 1985, who cares about how well someone didn't or didn't do 20 years ago. Check the latest reports, CR has the 2006 Sonata near the top of the list now thats a fact you can put in your pipe and smoke.

Keep making your ridiculous claims if you so desire.

I will make my claims but just remember just because they do not fit your narrow views of the world doesn't mean that they are ridiculous.

scramblinman · December 2005

Are you kidding? To me the XG350 looked like a cheap ripoff of a Jag to me. And ugly. Aren't they practically giving them away just to rid dealer lots of them? Had we not already bought our Maxima, the Azera would have definitely been on our short list of vehicles to take a hard look at.

lemko · December 2005

The XG350 was unlike anything the Japanese had. I've got to hand it to the Koreans. They build uniquely styled cars that might offend many, but they are certainly not dull. Heck, the Kia Optima looks nicer than anything Japanese and nobody else would have the guts to build something as bizarre as the Amanti!

Now, Hyundai is copying the Japanese! The Sonata looks like a rip-off of the Honda Accord and the Azera looks like an even uglier rip-off of the Toyota Camry. Why buy a cheap imitation when you can get the original? My brother was going to buy a 2006 Sonata until he saw what it looked like. He, instead, got the older-style 2005 model.

andre1969 · December 2005

it was hardly a beauty queen, but I at least thought it was kinda interesting to look at. I liked the frameless door windows and slim B-pillar, which gave it a bit of a hardtop look. I think the Azera's attractive too though. Maybe a bit more attractive than the XG350 was, but at the same time, not as unique...if that makes sense.

andre1969 · December 2005

I do see a bit of Camry in the front, but it makes me think of the '97-01 Camry. And those curves on the rear fenders, and the slope of the rump in general gives it a bit of a bustleback look. Not like an '80 Seville, but kinda like how many domestic cars looked in the late 40's.

iluvmysephia1 · December 2005

I totally believe that the 2006 Kia Rio5 shifter is not up to your standards on manual shifters. And, yes, I drive stick, I am on my 2nd Kia manual tranny in a row and I have found both shifters to be just fine.

That's what I'm talking about. A shifter that is no good to one driver is just fine to another.

The 2006 Kia Rio5 is built so well in so many ways that I find it really hard to believe that Kia put a sloppy shifter in it. I'll have to test drive and find out for myself. Ahh...hah...there we go again. It always comes full circle to test driving ourselves and around we go, imports to domestics to F150's to wagons to small import sedans, not all that much has really changed in the automotive world in the last 50-odd years really.

Except the oldest automaker from South Korea that just seems to make them my way.

calidave · December 2005

this forum was more interesting before it turned into "Why I like/hate Hyundai/Kia"

it's funny how few (any?) people have said they'd never be seen in a Smart car.

I'd love to drive on of the ones that have been "souped up"

andre1969 · December 2005

a SMART car in the US? I guess it just never entered my mind because I didn't think you could get them here. Might not be a bad commuter/errand car. And offbeat enough to be interesting, but in my mind not stigmatized by any negative stereotypes yet.

bottgers · December 2005

You obviously don't care about posting credible statements because you've yet to post one. So now you're going to tell me the fact that Honda and Toyota has built the most reliable vehicles over the last 20 years means absolutely nothing compared to some initial quality ratings given to vehicles that are so new no long term reliability data could've possible been compiled yet? Wow, so I guess you're a profit because you can see into the future and tell everyone that the new Hyundais are going to be just as reliable as Hondas and Toyotas? Keep posting, everyone will be calling you a genius soon. LOL!

1racefan · December 2005

I think the topic is about cars you wouldn't want to be seen in - not which manufacturer makes the most reliable vehicles.

Case in point - I would hate to be seen in a Scion Xb (styling tries to be way too trendy for me), but I am sure it is a very reliable vehicle with its Toyota lineage.

iluvmysephia1 · December 2005

on the 2006 Kia Rio5 that have said good things about the Rio5's manual shifter, including this one:

http://www.autobytel.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_id_- - int/754

That says a lot to me when they mention that "those who enjoy driving will want the 5-speed manual that features a light effort clutch pedal and slick shifting..."

john_324 · December 2005

"I think the topic is about cars you wouldn't want to be seen in - not which manufacturer makes the most reliable vehicles."

Yeah, isn't there a "Love or Hate Korean Vehicles?" discussion this can all be moved to?

I'm more interested in who would want to be seen stepping out of a burnt orange-colored Honda Element... :surprise:

snakeweasel · December 2005

So now you're going to tell me the fact that Honda and Toyota has built the most reliable vehicles over the last 20 years means absolutely nothing compared to some initial quality ratings given to vehicles that are so new no long term reliability data could've possible been compiled yet?

Yes, you want to know why? Because I am not going to be buying a 1985 Toyota or a 1993 Honda. My next car would most likely be a 2007 or 2008 whatever. Many companies made great cars in the past and their quality has slipped, I am more concerned with whats going forward.

You said you wanted facts so I gave them to you and you trash those facts. I gave you credible facts and you dissed them. You are not interested in facts, you seem not to want to have a reasonable discussion on this. You just seem to want to bash non japanese (or maybe just Korean) cars and myself as well. You know the personal jabs are very unbecoming and tell more of yourself than of me.

nippononly · December 2005

now I wouldn't mind stepping out of a burnt orange Element. Although when I was looking at that car briefly, I was leaning more towards the greens and blues. The burnt orange would have been a close third.

There were things I disliked about the Element, but none of them were in the exterior styling.

iluv: well, it is true that the Rio5's clutch is very light. No problem with stop and go, if that is in your weekly schedule.

andre1969 · December 2005

from long-term reliability data, because it at least gives you some insight into how a particular brand's vehicles traditionally have aged. However, you also have to take into account how those vehicles were used and maintainted. With used vehicles, that often matters more than whose name is stamped on the emblem.

Still, like any other data, you have to take it with a grain of salt. And as they say in the mutual fund business, "past performance is no guarantee of future returns." :shades:

fljoslin · December 2005

A 3/36 B2B and 5/60 powertrain isn't "decent"? It is above the industry average. Of course, it aint no Hyundai Long Haul warranty. But nobody's is, except Hyundai and Kia.

What is the Isuzu warranty?

1racefan · December 2005

"A 3/36 B2B and 5/60 powertrain isn't "decent"? It is above the industry average. Of course, it aint no Hyundai Long Haul warranty. But nobody's is, except Hyundai and Kia."

Mitsubishi's is as well - 5/60 B2B, 100K Powertrain.

chidoro · December 2005

To the original question...
I would never drive a chrysler 300, any jag, any bmw, or basically any pickup truck.

vwdriver2 · December 2005

I would never buy a(n)...
Impala, Aztec, Aveo, Cobalt, Tahoe, any Izuzu, any Subaru..any Buick...PT Cruiser, HHR, ..Ford 500, Mustang (V-6), (I like the GT's)...any minivan...(although the Oddysey is nice!)..that's it for now...

fljoslin · December 2005

A car built after 1975 with an "antique" tag on it. I live in Mississippi and you would not believe how many beaters from the late 70's are running around with "antique" tags on them. IMO when you put one of those antique tags on your car, you're saying to everyone that you are proud of your "classic" car, and quite frankly it scares me to think that anyone could ever think of a Gremlin or a Pinto as a classic.

I don't know what the laws regulating antiques tags are in mighty miss, but in most of the states that I have lived, they have very strict mileage limits. I think in WA it is about 2 miles per year. Just kidding. However, I believe that you are only supposed to drive to and from car shows and I believe that you cannot tow with an antique vehicle. In MO you are supposed to keep a log book with the car to show where you have been. You probably have similar laws in MS which the police probably choose not to enforce.

fljoslin · December 2005

Never say never.........
What do you like?

snakeweasel · December 2005

In Illinois you can only drive antique tags to and from a show, storage, or a mechanic. If you are just taking it for a spin you have to have regular plates. Not sure how they enforce it though.

andre1969 · December 2005

in Maryland, here it is straight from the horse's (DMV's) mouth...

A vehicle registered as an historic vehicle cannot be used for general daily transportation, or primarily for the transportation of passengers or property on highways. It can only be used in exhibitions, club activities, parades, tours, occasional transportation and similar uses.

So basically, you can drive your antique car on occasion, but not all the time. I think the only way you might get caught would be if you happened to drive your antique to work every day, and the same cop happened to see you on a regular basis and finally got suspicious. Or if you get into an accident or do something else to get a ticket, then the issue might come up.

Antique insurance is also very cheap. With the company I have though, they have a stipulation that you have to have a car with regular insurance that is your daily driver. I'm sure other companies have something similar.

I don't think the state of Maryland has a mileage limit. If they do, it's never come up with me. I've never had to sign or document anything. I think some antique insurers might want proof, though. However, mine doesn't.

Another stipulation my company has is that the car has to be worth, in their opinion, at least $3500. This helps to keep people from insuring beat-up clunkers to use as second cars and such. Still, they're pretty lenient on what they consider to be a $3500 car. For instance, I only paid $3K for my '76 LeMans, but I'm sure I'd have no trouble adding it to my antique policy. Only reason I haven't yet is because my garage isn't finished, so I can't park it in there yet. Now one that might be a bit more iffy is my '79 NYer. I only paid $900 for it, and they tend to not be worth much (not like a '76 LeMans is a goldmine), but it still looks good enough in pictures that they might let me add it to my policy.

harrychezt · December 2005

anything with the speedometer/cluster in the center of the dash. just something about it not to our liking here at our homestead.

never drive a truck based suv, or as i said in a previous post, anything over 20K.

If it cost 50% or more than our home, I ain;t buying it(not with the miles we put on a car...35 to 45,000 per year).

They become "throw-aways" by end of year 6, 250,000+ miles, to most people(for "resale" value) anyways.

harrychezt · December 2005

About Sonata: I agree. I like our 04's unique styling.
the 06? well, let me say No, unless they rework the front end, and a few other details.

Hyundai may have lost our business with these"me, too" designs they are coming up with.

They show decent concepts, then water them down, or do not make them at all any more. the Tiburon was a concept car...and it still is ok.

Kia Amanti won some JD Powers APEAL award, for 05,correct?

Saw some for 22,000, loaded like the 28K version(was the 28K version, on sale).
What is odd is at a hyudnai/Kia forum, those guys really dislike the Amanti, but others seem to like it(outside of the fan site)?

TC/NO
DAV
83-94

michaellno · December 2005

Funny, my folks own an '03 Sonata and my dad has commented on how he feels it looks like a Jaguar, both inside and out.

Of course, this was the first new car they had bought in 30 years (they tended towards used Toyotas for the most part), so their perspective might be slightly off. But, hey, they're happy with it!

As for me, when I went to buy a midsized V6 sedan a few years ago, I ended up buying a Saturn L300, mainly because it was several thousand less than a comparable Accord or Camry. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I find the looks of my car to be not too bad. My wife calls in the "anonacar", since it blends in with all the other sedans in a large parking lot (and the pewter color often hides it completely).

I'm sure that there are lots of folks who are now thinking "ewww, a Saturn? I wouldn't drive a Saturn". In 3 years and 40-something thousand miles later, I've had almost no problems with my car. Plus, the dent resistant side panels means that it still looks like new, even though it spends all of its time outdoors, even during our Colorado winters.

carlisimo · December 2005

I met a girl in college who drives a '95 Saturn wagon. Stick. She's one of the most passionate drivers I know, so my perception of Saturns is colored (for the better). I drove it and didn't like its steering at all, but nothing is better than a wagon in college, and her driving style belied the Saturn philosophy.

(One of the times I drove it, two bicyclists in tandem came out of the trees at a t-section and I drove right between them... things like that made driving in Berkeley much more exciting than the cars we had.)

If I had never tried out a current Ion, I'd have kept a favorable impression of Saturn.

rumc3 · December 2005

Any Hummer, Excursion, Expedition, Escalade, Land Rover, etc. I hate all those dumb-[non-permissible content removed] tanks.

Any car in that god-awful YELLOW that screams "look at me!"

Dream car: Porsche Carrera S, coupe, 6-speed, gray metallic. YES!

fintail · December 2005

I've had year of manufacture plates on my fintail since 1996 - although I used it as a daily driver for 5 years after that. It's an unenforced law indeed.

jchan2 · December 2005

I wouldn't mind driving a Saturn...

But now that they don't have those plastic doors I'm not so sure...

jimmy81 · December 2005

We bashing Kia again tonight? Count me in.

What happened to Daewoo and Daihatsu? POS?

iluvmysephia1 · December 2005

driving one of those Nissan Maxima's with the R2D2 taillights. Can you say ugly?

carlisimo · December 2005

Daewoo became an American Revolution (TM).

Daihatsu makes kei-cars for the Japanese market as a Toyota subsidiary.

I'd rather not be seen drive a kei-car here, even in an urban environment. They're to cars as mopeds are to motorcycles.

Wouldn't Be Caught Dead Driving One

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