You Are What You Drive?

li_sailor · May 2006

That is a problem for all of us. It raises insurance rates across the board.

Ah, I see. Ok, so your suggestion is that everyone buy a PU or SUV to eliminate the problem of small car claims. Only a few problems there...everyone has to pay more, so a lot of folks get priced out of a vehicle, and probably a job. And when ladder-framed vehicles collide, the injuries are worse...greater forces involved.

Besides this, you are focusing on bodily harm, while in fact insurance rates are almost entirely based on vehicle damage and liability (fault-based, not vehicle-based).

Besides these problems, I agree with you completely

Of course, you are right that larger cars are safer. Trouble is that a lot of folks can't afford them and they are more car than most folks need. Better to pay for more active and passive safety than to get something too big that wastes gas (IMO)

Keep little cars off the main highways.

Well, at least now you're getting serious :=)

gagrice · May 2006

Better to pay for more active and passive safety than to get something too big that wastes gas

Many of the small cars do not get much better mileage than a large car. You can get a CamCord, Impala or Malibu that get over 30 MPG on the highway. It would be cheaper to buy a couple year old Malibu than a new whatever small car.

Part of that problem is financing. Folks are so far over their heads they have a hard time financing a used car. For some reason the car companies are happy to get people in over their heads on a new car.

Not that it has much to do with the subject at hand.

I'm sticking with my position just as you are. If you get the little unsafe cars off the highways. I will promote only getting as much vehicle as needed.

Have a nice weekend. Looks like good sailing here.

li_sailor · May 2006

Well, I don't agree about small car/large car mpg differences. While the mpg has improved for large cars over the last 30 years, rare is the large car (your list are more mid than large) that gets over 24 (the Crown Vic gets 21) and many small cars get 35 or more.

And small cars fill a need for certain vehicular requirements which won't be going away anytime soon.

Yeah, nice weekend, but had to put up a fence on the back yard that took most of it. Still don't have the mast up, but the raising is planned for tonite, finally. Hope you had a good weekend, too.

PF_Flyer · May 2006

The forums are place for discussion about the topics, not each other. It's OK to disagree with someone, but once it turns personal and comments start to be directed at each other, that's over the line.

Time to drop the personal shots now.

andre1969 · May 2006

IIRC, the Crown Vic is EPA-rated at 17/25, which is about where it's been for eons now. However, in the past 20 years or so, the Crown Vic has also picked up 300-400 pounds, is much improved in emissions, and is also much quicker. Today a stock Crown Vic can do 0-60 in about 8 seconds. 20 years ago you had to get the trailering package with a dual exhaust and a 3.55:1 rear end just to get 10.5 out of it. And I doubt if it would've gotten 17/25 with a 3.55:1 rear end! :surprise:

patrock · June 2006

Is a 1999 Chevy Cavalier Z-24

I'm 19 years old, and love american classics, however, I can't afford to insure one. So I needed an economy car. Not for gas, for insurance. My car does everything I need it to do, and has plenty of power for me. My problem, people don't know what Z-24 means, they see it as a plain old boing Cavi. It has an entirley different drivetrain than those cars. It's frustrating that I have to defend the surprising sportiness of my car!

PS: I'm also building up an old rustbucket 1966 Buick Riviera! That'll be 7.0 liters of Gas Guzzling fun once I get it on the road...without insurance...but it won't be my daily driver.

la4mead · June 2006

You will get over defending your car's attributes... Remember the only one you truly have to impress is yourself, others won't be by boasting. But you are right, of course. The Z-24 means the difference between a plain vehicle that isn't and a great car that is more than merely acceptable to you for what your needs are. Think of it as a "sleeper" and remove all the badges, if you want to leave some mystery and it suits you better.

Sounds like you found a winner, and I hope you enjoy it for a long time.

andre1969 · June 2006

a buddy of mine had an '89 Z-24 coupe, and, well, laugh if you want, but we all thought that was a cool car! Back then, the Z-24 had a 2.8 V-6 that had either 125 or 135 hp (can't remember now), and it was actually pretty quick. It was red with silver trim along the bottom, had cool wheels, and it really had a pretty nice interior.

IIRC, the '99 Cavalier Z-24 used a 150 hp 2.4 4-cylinder that was essentially what the Olds Quad-4 had become. I had a '99 Olds Alero rental once with that engine, and even in that heavier style, it was a fun little car.

But in the end, just remember that the only one that your car has to impress is YOU! My attitude has always been the hell with whatever anyone else says. And trust me, I've had some cars that have taken some criticism! :P

patrock · June 2006

Well, I didn't buy the car to impress people. But I guess in reality I end up impressing more people than I would with a different car, because they expect less from it. I can easily pull away from just about anything that doesn't have a V8 or a turbo! Like they say, there's no replacement for displacement, but its a fun little car car!

explorerx4 · June 2006

my guess is nobody wants to bother racing a z-24.
doesn't mean you don't have a good car.
all the kids WANT to race my focus. i bought it to save gas. we are both misunderstood.

fintail · June 2006

A few middle aged guys in minivans and small pickups wanted to race my old 1989 S-class. I never understood that.

Now and then I'll find a kid who wants to race the C43...so far I've always played along for a few seconds....that's all it took

carlisimo · June 2006

There will always be people who say "yeah, but it's still a Cavalier." I hear it said more often about Civics and Neons, but the sentiment is the same. Nameplate is everything to some. (Or looks, which the Z-24 doesn't really have to its favor.)

patrock · June 2006

I agree, it is still a cavalier, a neon, a civic. Whatever. I know that 4 cyl.s are not built to be fast. Its not "fast" by my standards. It certainly is no sports car. But its faster than just about anything else anywhere near its class. The newer cars are faster, but technology has advanced since 1999, so they should be. I'm mainly refering to cars in its time, of similar equipment. The nameplate (z-24) really does mean a lot more than a spoiler and electric windows. Like I said before, its a completely different drivetrain than the standard cavalier. Better tires, better suspention, and bigger exaust too. All stock, no aftermarket coffee can muffler crap on my car like so many civics fall victim to.

Now as far as looks go, thats all opinion. I like the looks of my car. And it has a different front bumper with fog lights and different side skirts than the standard cavi. It looks a lot better. Civics (with the execption of the new one) are plain looking. The apitimy of genaric. Neons are not good looking cars. 9 times out of 10, people will tell you neons are ugly. I'm a huge dodge fan, but I'm not at all impressed with the neon. Now the SRT-4, although not the best looking car, I would love to have one

carlisimo · June 2006

Hmm... now you're pushing it a bit, putting down Civics that have few disadvantages compared to Cavaliers. Their equivalent to the Z-24 (the Si) was also much more than a spoiler and electric windows, but you've forgotten about it despite complaining about everyone forgetting about the Z-24.

patrock · June 2006

I never said the civic wasn't a good car. And the Si is quite a little performer, or so I've read. I was refering to the boring looks. And I'm not an expert on civics, there are so many versions. The new one is cool. There is a reason they have SO many cheap add on accessories to make the civic look "cool". And the mufflers that make your car sound like a weed wacker, I see most of those on civics, integras, and preludes.

Kirstie_H · August 2006

A book author is researching American attitudes about their vehicles. If you agree or disagree with the idea that your vehicle does or should reflect your individual personality, please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than September 15, 2006 with your daytime contact information and your thoughts on this subject. And, please put "for book author" in your subject line.

Karen_S · August 2006

A casting director seeks drivers who think of their cars as extensions of their personalities and are able to participate in a rally from Vancouver to LA for two weeks in October. Please visit http://www.carspace.com/bullrun for more information.

highender · August 2006

larger cars have always , in general, used more fuel , but in turn, gave greater protection and more room for the owner.

some merchant marine still pushing his snake oil, but good thing facts and the government, as well as pure common sense, refute the snake oil. :P

JUst got a ride in a Aston Martin DB7 ...went around Beverly Hills on Mulholland Dr......nice....

THere are lots of nice rides in that area...and also some toyotas and hondas....

Richer people may or maynot buy nicer cars...but the temptation will always be there....

highender · October 2006

is the way for a greener environment...or that it conserves fuel... I was one of them.

but that is only true during the middle, usage phase. Hybrids use more barrels of fuel and energy and resources to build, and at its end stages, uses more energy and resources to take it out of circulation....

Are Prius owners honest about wanting to save the earth..Yes...I think so. But they do not realize that they are spending large sums of money and resources upfront , to save a few barrels of oil in between, during the usage phase, and then society has to spend more barrels of oil to deactivate the hybrids....

Maybe we should all get diesels..eh ?

gagrice · October 2006

If we just stretched out the length of ownership a couple years it would make a tremendous difference.

highender · October 2006

I agree....

rockylee · November 2006

Stereotypes not true, poll shows

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061126/BUSINESS01/611260543/10- 14

Rocky

highender · December 2006

Thanks Rocky for the post.

Most younger people aspire to dream cars first...so mustangs, civics souped up with after market items, used bimmers , etc, are driven by younger drivers....with a whole range in there.

Most Prius drivers are over 45..that makes sense, since they are generally more financially secure than younger people about to start working or starting families.

But more Republicans ? Wow...what happened to the left leaning green democrats ? ;-)

I tried to get a Prius...but wife would not let me...she opposes putting our children into a small car so unsafe...that is her stance.

nvbanker · January 2007

Like it or not, you are what you drive to many, many people, and usually the ones that count. After I interview a potential employee for a job, I watch out the window to see what they drove in. If the guy is 42, and is driving a 10 year old Cavalier all beat up, I know he's never been successful in his life, so why would he be good for my company? I won't usually hire him if nothing else has overly impressed me. OTOH, if that same guy gets into an E-Class of recent vintage, I think he's got some talent to be able to afford it, and some pride in his appearance, which are good for the image of my company. It adds points to his application. Like it or not, you are what you drive.

When many people think of a successful doctor, attorney, banker, etc. etc. etc. they see them wearing a certain type of clothes, driving a certain car, living in a certain type of house, etc.

& there are people out there who will base their business decisions on how a person looks, what he's wearing, etc.

Not saying it's right or wrong. It's just reality.
You are hired on appearance. The appearance of your resume, what it represents you to know and be. The appearance of your persona - how you look, act, speak, appear, carry yourself, attitute. What you drive is just an extension of that, and certainly not the only, or pivital criteria for the hiring decision. Just one of the impressions you may make. For certain jobs, it matters - for others, it doesn't.

Taking it one step further - when I'm buying a car from a salesperson - I'm much more favorably impressed if the salesperson drives one of the cars he sells, or at least an older model of one, indicating that he likes the brand. And I always ask the person what they drive. If it's something else, I ask them why they don't drive what I'm thinking of buying.....a very telling question. The answer had better be that they desperately want one, but can't afford it yet or something like that. It had better not be that they like Brand X better....

So, be somewhat particular about what you drive, if your career requires it. It's a reality.

seminole_kev · January 2007

ehhhh. NVBanker, I gotta disagree. A person defines the person, not the car. For a lot of people, a car is just an appliance to get them back and forth. I enjoy 'em too much to be in that group though.

The guy in the Cavalier might dump his money into smart investments and property rather than a rapidly depreciating asset like a car. Who knows? but I'd have better luck reading tea leaves than using a person's car to define what kind of person they are.

fintail · January 2007

I think to enthusiasts 'you are what you drive'...but for better or worse, the vast majority of people aren't enthusiasts.

About old vs new cars...I think vehicle condition is more important than age if you want to guess about attributes of the driver. A nicely maintained 20 year old generic car is more impressive to me than a battered 3 year old Civic.

trimaster · January 2007

Great topic!

To an extent, yes, you are what you drive. And certain cars will bring out certain reactions in people.

No one expects a CFO of a Fortune 500 company to appear on MTV's hit show Pimp My Ride and get an old Honda Civic blinged out with 17 tv monitors and 20 inch rims in a metallic red or lime green. Imagine the reacion he received if he drove that to the annual shareholder meeting??

But let that same CFO drive up in a clean, new, factory standard,black luxury auto wearing an expensive suit and no one would think twice...

That's an extreme example, but people DO make assumptions on what you drive, what you wear, & the neighborhood you live in.

Certain cars have certain images no matter who's driving it.

trimaster · January 2007

For a lot of people, a car is just an appliance to get them back and forth.

For some true, but not all. What about the enthusiasts? Would the topic be relevant to them?

seminole_kev · January 2007

Even for an enthusiast, I think it would (at best) show what particular interests you may have, but again, wouldn't define who you are. People read way to much into cars as to what it "makes" the person behind the wheel. Sure there are people who buy cars to try define a certain image, but a lot don't.

Basically I don't think you can acurately look at someone's car, and decern "who" that person is.

pch101 · January 2007

If you drive a relatively costly car, it probably says something about your vehicle preferences (styles and brands), your (perceived) needs and your self image. If you drive a relatively cheap car, it may reflect your inability to afford better, or a lack of interest in cars, or a preference to put your money elsewhere.

The decision to spend or not to spend may have more to do with lifestyle and financial choices than anything specific to vehicles. Some people simply couldn't care less about cars, and don't put a lot of thought or money into whatever it is that they buy.

I'll tell you one thing -- when I owned a beater, I had a lot less to worry about, my vehicle-related expenses were a lot lower, and I parked whereever I wanted to. In some ways, I miss those days...

seminole_kev · January 2007

LOL at the beater comment. I once was given (by my Father) an old Cadillac. It was an old one he had that was in too bad of shape to really be worth anything to him, but it ran. He offered it to me one day, and for some reason I said yes.

It was fun having that puppy actually for its short remaining span on this earth. Park it in a bad part of town - Who cares? Some guy parks his coupe 1" away from your passenger door - Who cares? It certainly did make things "simple"

Apparently though I was one "type" of person when I drove it, and a completely different type of person when I drove my new car..... :confuse:

trimaster · January 2007

Apparently though I was one "type" of person when I drove it, and a completely different type of person when I drove my new car.....

Did you feel differet when you got your new car?

pch101 · January 2007

Park it in a bad part of town - Who cares? Some guy parks his coupe 1" away from your passenger door - Who cares?

Yeah, I'm at the point that I start having spasms whenever anyone parks within a quarter mile of my car!

Back in the (good) old days, I could react to a new door ding with just a shrug and an "Oh, well." Now, I find myself reaching for my phone to call my doctor about the sudden palpitations and intense chest pain. I'm not quite sure yet whether this was a good lifestyle decision or not...

seminole_kev · January 2007

"Did you feel differet when you got your new car?". Nope. I be who I'z be. If someone's silly enough to judge who I am by the wheels they see me get out of at that moment, what do I care?

I can see somewhat NV's point about if your car is much of your job (say a realtor, or a car salesman) that it is important for an image standpoint because people are shallow, but even then, it doesn't define who/what you are.

trimaster · January 2007

"Did you feel differet when you got your new car?". Nope. I be who I'z be. If someone's silly enough to judge who I am by the wheels they see me get out of at that moment, what do I care?

I hear U. So you have never looked at someone when they get out of their car & form an opinion about them based on that initial encounter? I wish I could like & say I haven't but I have. :P

I can see somewhat NV's point about if your car is much of your job (say a realtor, or a car salesman) that it is important for an image standpoint because people are shallow, but even then, it doesn't define who/what you are.

Yeah, same here. That type of thinking is very tough for people new to their profession if tey are trying to cater to an upscale clientele. SOMETIMES, wealthy people prefer to work with people who look like them.

seminole_kev · January 2007

Was trying to come up with some scenarios where I would be embarrased to be seen driving a certain car and I've managed to come up with a couple.

1) Driving a Pink VW Bug (or pretty much a pink "anything" would be embarrasing to me.)
2) Driving a car plastered/painted up with a rival team's colors and logos. (for me, having to drive around with a Florida Gator's themed car would be hell).

So I can think of a few, extreem examples.......even then, though, it still doesn't make who I am. Oh how that Gator's one would drive me nuts though :P

seminole_kev · January 2007

"I hear U. So you have never looked at someone when they get out of their car & form an opinion about them based on that initial encounter?"

Beyond maybe a "man that guy doesn't care about handling at all", that's about it. I can't look at a person's car and say "I think he'd be good/bad with children, likely to screw me on a business deal, or is a hard worker".

trimaster · January 2007

2) Driving a car plastered/painted up with a rival team's colors and logos. (for me, having to drive around with a Florida Gator's themed car would be hell).

LOL That's funny!

trimaster · January 2007

I can't look at a person's car and say "I think he'd be good/bad with children, likely to screw me on a business deal, or is a hard worker".

I agree with that.

One thing I have discovered is many people have more than 1 car. Sometimes they have a beat up work car & a really nice luxury car at home in the garage for special occassions.

My ex girlfriend's father drove an old Ford truck everywhere. You know the type: that old, semi rusted, 1985 F150. But go to his house with the well manicured lawn and he had a really nice late 90's Lincoln Town car in the garage. I'm not a Towncar fan, but it was in mint condition and looked really nice. Very clean & rode like new.

So on 1st glance, he looked like a guy who didn't care. But catch him on a day when he was dressed in a nice suit driving his Towncar & a person's opinion might be different than if they saw him driving his truck dressed "ultra casual...

Going back to the original post, if he was going to a job interview, which vehicle do you think he'd drive and why?

seminole_kev · January 2007

I always show up to interviews in the back of a police car. It normally is a great conversation starter. Forget those silly "what was the last book you read" interview questions....

lemko · January 2007

....would change from day to day depending on which car I drove. Heck, some days I even drive my girlfriend's LaCrosse.

fintail · January 2007

So does that say you are an out of town businessman in a car he got at the airport? :P

How about vehicle condition telling more of a story than the vehicle itself? And I don't mean faded paint, but more like if it has been washed in the past 12 months, if it has roadworthy tires and brakes, if the interior is full of garbage, etc. I think keeping a car relatively clean is akin to a person keeping themselves clean. It doesn't have to be concours, but a car with bald tires with a year's worth of grime, filled with fast food refuse says something...

lemko · January 2007

Well, if you want to talk about the condition I keep my cars in, all are meticulously cleaned, even my old Park Avenue. I even go to the extent of taking off the wire wheel covers off the car to clean the black steel rims underneath and give them a coat of wax. Any mechanical problems with any of my cars are dealt with immediately. Even a burned-out bulb in the interior drives me bananas. Eating, drinking, smoking, are forbidden in any of my cars.

nvbanker · January 2007

For a lot of people, a car is just an appliance to get them back and forth.

Absolutely true!! And that person will be found in a Camry or Accord, maybe an Elantra or Sonata. All very good cars and very good values. Even very good decisions! But those cars define that person as exactly what you said - they could care less about a car, would prefer not to need one, but they do, so they want the least hassle, best value, and most reliability - but excitement matters not at all.

When I see a Camry, which is probably the best "appliance for driving" out there, that's what I know about the person. You make my point!

seminole_kev · January 2007

"When I see a Camry, which is probably the best "appliance for driving" out there, that's what I know about the person. You make my point!"

NV, the problem is that doesn't neccessarly mean that is really why that person is in that car. That's a particular stereotype you brought to the table, the person could be in that car for an entirely different reason. What if the guy's sports car's in the shop for repairs and that's the loaner they gave 'em? What if his brother gives him a massive discount on the car? Maybe he's driving the wife's car for some reason? Who knows?

....and all this is especially useless as to determine something relevent to a job interview.

nvbanker · January 2007

About old vs new cars...I think vehicle condition is more important than age if you want to guess about attributes of the driver. A nicely maintained 20 year old generic car is more impressive to me than a battered 3 year old Civic.

I agree totally, Fintail. But, there are qualifiers. For example, I saw a 1980 Mercedes 420SEL at the curb today for sale, in decent shape. Straight body, looked like it ran ok. Didn't stop so don't know much else, but the price on the window was $1,000. And unless that car was really cherry, that's about the value I'd ascribe to it. And someone who had it as their driver in this condition, I'd think was either an oddball, hippie, or person "in transition". But not my Stock Broker.

Now, between a 26 year old Mercedes and a 26 year old Honda in similar condition? I'd think more of the Honda owner, which is why I think an old old luxury car in distressed condition looks pathetic. And so does the driver.

nvbanker · January 2007

What if the guy's sports car's in the shop for repairs and that's the loaner they gave 'em? What if his brother gives him a massive discount on the car? Maybe he's driving the wife's car for some reason? Who knows?

I know, and when I'm in a Rental Taurus, I have a concern about showing up at functions or appointments in it, because people tend to make this judgement about me, and it would be erroneous in this case. In fact, I've done that very thing a few times, once a client of mine arrived at the appointment at the same time, seeing me get out of the Taurus rental, and said, "Oh no, this just will not do for you, you look like you're in trouble". This has happened to me numerous times in various situations, which is why I have come to believe, it matters what I drive.

Look, my Dr. went one day to visit with a Physical Therapy clinic to see if he wanted to refer patients to them. He happened to be in his daughters Subaru (yellow) that day for some odd reason. He's a big guy too. After the interview, he left, and they watched him get into this little yellow car, and made the determination that the Dr. must be wierd, because he was not a new Dr., had a thriving practice, yet drove a car that "just wasn't right for him". I was referred in to that clinic, and after the eval, the Dr. asked me how I liked my Dr. -- because he drove such an oddball car! I clued them in and they felt much better about him being "normal" after that.

I am not saying it's right - just that it's real, and I've come to believe it over years of experience.

seminole_kev · January 2007

NV, gotta say, if anything all that does is continue to drive people to the safe camcord. Take the safe option so no one assumes something negative about you.

Ugh. As a car nut, this is actually a disturbing line of thought/topic. Kind of dissapointing actually. God help you if you fell in love with a certain car at some time and pick it up later on in life (applies to me) or there is a particular feature or function that you demand/require that is only offered on a few, non-mainstream models.

Everyone must conform.......

nvbanker · January 2007

Basically I don't think you can acurately look at someone's car, and decern "who" that person is.

You can't reliably - but in certain cases, circles, professions, you can, and you expect it.

I pay car allowances for many of my employees. In exchange, I have some say over what they drive, and I demand that they keep it in good condition, clean, and fairly current. It portrays an image of their success, competence and of our company when they are seen in a business setting. I could care less what the neighbors think of it, but at lunch - it can matter. If one of the executive's cars starts getting old looking, distressed, aged or very out of date, I will ask that they update the car. I'm paying for it. I can do that.

No, you are not always right about a person from the car, especially in academia. It's a toss up. I have two tenured professors who live next to me, and she drives a Jag, and he drives an old Explorer. They could just as easily have an old Honda, you just can't tell in that realm, although, at the K-12 level, I sure see a lot of Cadillacs, BMW 7ers and Mercedes in the School Parking lot for Faculty!! What's up with that??

nvbanker · January 2007

I'll tell you one thing -- when I owned a beater, I had a lot less to worry about, my vehicle-related expenses were a lot lower, and I parked whereever I wanted to. In some ways, I miss those days...

It certainly is a less stressful way of life, isn't it? Honestly though, even though I now drive a Lexus (and used to drive a Pinto Wagon at one point), the car is still my servant not my master. I don't park it in special places, I park close to the door. I refuse to let the car own me. If it gets hit, I get it fixed.

You Are What You Drive?

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