Toyota Fearing Hyundai?

kingsalmon · March 2006

Hyundai's then CEO's name is Finbar O'Neil and he went to Mitsubishi but wasn't able to turn around that company so he left for Reynolds&Reynolds(some other company in the Auto field). I don't know what he's up to but I think the warranty idea was good and kinda forced Hyundai to drastically improve their quality.

Hyundai's quality is very good. I have owned a Honda, two Volvo's, and now a Hyundai and Hyundai is by far the best.
My father also owns a Bimmer and several parts are already broken. No problems so far on my Hyundai Elantra I bought two years ago.

iluvmysephia1 · March 2006

are reporting news like this on their Hyundai's. Kia has had a large amount of people report similarly, me being one of them. Kia and Hyundai are for real. You'd have to have your head stuck firmly...firmly...ummm...in the sand to continue denying this.

Stubbornness is one thing but stupidity is quite another, eh?

nvbanker · March 2006

The elantra is a great little bargain, and I buy a lot of them for my clients. But better than a Honda, no way. Better than any Cavalier, or Cobalt, you bet. Bimmers are not the same fruit - no reason to compare them, or Volvo for that matter. Hyundai may be the best deal on the planet right now from a cost/benefit perspective. You gotta like 'em though. The Elantra is too rough for me, the Sonata is really too. The Amanti isn't bad, but feels old fashioned. The Azera probably will fix that - I don't know if Kia gets one of those yet or not.... I speak of Hyundai and Kia pretty interchangeably, like I would Ford & Mercury. That's my perspective on it. YMMV, of course.

bottgers · March 2006

....what most people have a beef with is people claiming Korean vehicles are as good, or even more perposterous, better than Japanese vehicles. I don't think anyone who doesn't live under a mushroom will deny that Korean vehicles have vastly improved, but there's no proof whatsoever that states they're on the same level as the Japanese in terms of build quality and reliability.

snakeweasel · March 2006

but there's no proof whatsoever that states they're on the same level as the Japanese in terms of build quality and reliability.

Please clarify that statement, is there no proof at all? If so I would seriously challenge that.

Is there no proof that you will accept? If so that may be true but not proof to the contrary.

nippononly · March 2006

Check out the Azera and the '06 Sonata - you may be quite impressed. Pretty much up there with the Camry on most fronts. I would still take the Camry if I wanted that sort of thing - nobody makes a more perfectly executed smooth quiet ride than Toyota with the Camry, and that is still true despite the advent of the '06 Sonata!

And BTW, while Kia is owned by Hyundai and they do more and more platform sharing every year, Hyundais are now being built here while Kias are not, and the stats note a large difference between the two on initial quality, reliability, even APEAL. Kia is always low on the list, Hyundai has been above average in the last few years, even tops once or twice.

With the new Accent and Santa Fe this year, Hyundai has ALMOST eliminated all the old, very-Korean, inferior-feeling models from its line-up. Only the Elantra remains, which I understand is being updated soon by a second gen.

There is no question in my mind that Toyota needs to be keeping an eye on Hyundai, which will present serious competition within a decade I am sure. There is also no question in my mind that the very canny executives at the top of Toyota are doing just that, in addition to keeping an eye on the entire field and striving ceaselessly to be better.

bumpy · March 2006

Two things:

Hyundai and Kia have their own separate factories in South Korea. Hyundai has been implementing its production methods and practices in the Kia plants for the last few years, but it will take time for the Kia folks to become proficient and comfortable with the Hyundai system, so there will be a "catch-up" period.

The Japanese reputation for bulletproof products didn't fully develop in the US until the early-mid '90s, when enough people had racked up 200,000 miles on their mid-80s Accords and Sentras. We won't know until the end of the decade if the "good" Hyundais can duplicate that feat, but the indications so far are that they just might do it. If so, they can expect a similar burst in sales that the major Japanese makes enjoyed in the '90s.

bottgers · March 2006

I haven't seen any. What have you seen? All I have seen is initial quality reports, which is proof of just that....INITIAL quality. I have yet to any long term testing that's shown the Koreans have completely closed the gap.

snakeweasel · March 2006

I haven't seen any.

until you open your eyes you will not see any. Many people are getting 150-200+ miles on their Hyundais, they are out there look for them.

iluvmysephia1 · March 2006

my '01 Sportage has 110,455 miles on it now and it's purring like a kitten. Maintenace is the key and I plan to have it in for it's flurry of 120,000 mile service items. Included among those will be the 120,000 mile timing belt replacement.

Which, it sound funny, has me thinking trade-in now for a new one to avoid all those expenses.

Of course, I'll get the maintenance done if we hang onto the Sportage because it always helps keep rigs running smoothly longer.

There's just one example, our Kia, running up the miles and doing just fine. There are skads and skads of owner accounts on the net of their Kia's and Hyundai's lasting well into the 100,000's. It's not hard to discover them, either.

snakeweasel · March 2006

I have to ask, did you have any non routine maitenence work on it? If so when?

bottgers · March 2006

Many people got/get that kind of mileage out of their domestic vehicles too, but that doesn't mean they're built as well as a Japanese vehicle.

snakeweasel · March 2006

Ok so thats it. They get the same amount of mileage, they have fit and finish, the same repair costs and frequencies but they are not built as well. As I said there is no proof for those who refuse to see.

nvbanker · March 2006

I have the opportunity to inspect, drive & buy cars at the auction every week. I have not driven the newest Sonata or Azera, and they may be pretty awesome, don't know. The Sonata and Elantra of last year or so, are good. But not as good as Japanese cars, Mitsubishi excepted. I suspect though, they will be closing the gap.

kingsalmon · March 2006

What I meant by my Elantra being better is ofcourse from my particular perspective. I've owned a '99 civic, driven a 2005 civic, and currently own a 2005 Elantra. I do like the driving dynamics of the Civic a bit better, but for the price, you cannot beat the Elantra.

I also like the stiffer feel of the Elantra's handling. It may not be as sporty, but I feel a lot safer than that of the Civic. I've actually got into an accident on the Civic because of the steering wheel being too flimsy.

The Elantra's engine is much more peppy than either of the two Civics and seems to have more power. '99 Civic was an LX with a little over 100 horses.

In terms of what I get, Elantra wins hands down. I have everything in the Elantra that I had in the civic, and I got extras like sunroof, trip computer, leather seats, leather steering wheel, and a much better warranty.

I havent had anything break from my Elantra thus far, but the Civic wore down very quickly. The power windows were not very powerful and the back windows would stop going up after opened. The sun shade on the drivers side tore off after three years and the paint started peeling off from the back bumper. The hood paint also started to wear off. The power-train was okay although the transmission started to have brief outbursts of power. I felt very uneasy driving the car towards the end and ended up selling the car for much less than Blue Book price.

This is just my personal experience and who knows. The Elantra might not prove to be the better vehicle in the long run, but right now, I have no complaints with it. It still runs as if I bought it yesterday. My 2cents.

iluvmysephia1 · March 2006

my Sportage, bought in Sept.'01, has had the check engine light come on(fixed by replacing the gas cap with another Kia gas cap, under Warranty), the left rear power window regulator went out(fixed under Warranty by replacing the power window regulator for that window), the fuel filler door refused to open so a new filler door locking and opening kit had to be installed, under Warranty and the radiator was found to have a corrosive spot on it near the filler top and so it was replaced under the Warranty as well. All of these were done by the 19,500 mile mark.

Since then I have had my brake light switch go out and my alternator go out. The alternator going out did strand me and the brake light switch went out about 5,000 miles after the alternator(88,000 miles and 93,000 miles). The brake light switch was not a strandable offense, just a scheduled appointment type of thing.

Everything else was routine maintenance and tires, lube-oil-filters, etc. Still, all the things listed in the first paragraph were picked up for free by the Long-Haul Warranty, and the work was done quickly. The appointments were usually (all but one) while I waited and averaged 1 1/2 hours at the Kia dealer. Time for marginal coffee and talking to the Kia salesmen about Kia's and Chevy's and Buick's(I bought at Jerry Smith Chev-Buick-Kia in Anacortes, WA).

The things I've had to pay for(besides tires, oil, etc.)cost me $325(alternator)and $85(brake light switch). That's for what is now about 4 1/2 years of ownership. As I have stated countless times on here I have yet to blow a lightbulb or headlamp bulb of any kind. I also got 102,000 miles out of my OEM Hankook SUV tires.

Now that, my friends, is good service from my Sportage 4x4 at very reasonable cost. Perfect? Hardly. Now, I will admit that I did have to follow up on my Sportage's early petty problems that were covered under Warranty. It takes some time to monitor the vehicle's performance early-on as it does with any manufacturer and then following up with any concerns and paying good attention to the rig as it goes through it's break-in period. Relaying information back to the service dept.in a timely maner, etc.

With TLC the Kia vehicle you buy will take good care of you.

snakeweasel · March 2006

I don't know about that track record. I didn't do a thing to my elantra except for routine maintenance until the 131K mile mark (almost 6 years). Before then nothing.

To be honest I haven't had that kind of trouble with any car I ever had.

If you have 102K miles I would suggest changing the bulbs, they have a tendency to dim over time.

iluvmysephia1 · March 2006

are you talking about the headlamp bulbs? Because they are bright as can be still, I'm now at 110,455 miles.

If I had stayed with Ford and bought an Escape I'd be on my 25th light bulb by now, no lie.

I know lightbulbs aren't what makes up a car, I'm just astonished at their longevity and the sure, straight wear of the OEM SUV tires.

Another thing great about the Sportage is the low noise level in the cabin. It's well-insulated from tire and road and engine noise.

snakeweasel · March 2006

are you talking about the headlamp bulbs?

Yes typically they dim over time, usually so gradually that its hard to notice. I thought mine were as bright until I changed them.

If I had stayed with Ford and bought an Escape I'd be on my 25th light bulb by now, no lie.

My Mustang went about 82K miles before the headlights went out. If that lady hadn't made that left turn in front of me they would have lasted longer.

iluvmysephia1 · March 2006

on our headlamps and turn indicator lights, oh yes they do. :surprise:

nvbanker · March 2006

>If I had stayed with Ford and bought an Escape I'd be on my 25th light bulb by now, no lie.<

Oh please.... You lose so much credibility with statements like that.

snakeweasel · March 2006

and it put stress on the car, it never ran right after that.

w9cw · March 2006

I fully respect nvbanker's opinion, but I've owned Hondas, including a 2003 Civic, an Accord, Mazda, Nissan, and Toyota products - but never a Subaru. I bought a 2006 Hyundai Elantra GLS for my wife for this past Christmas, and so far, it is far superior to the Civic it replaced. It rides better, is more quiet on the highway, and very well equipped. I must say that I'm surprised, but happily so. Will it be as reliable as the Civic - that remains to be seen, but it appears to be very, very well assembled, certainly as good as the Canadian-built Civic we previously owned. Yes, I know that's a bold statement, but I've been over every nook, cranny, and suspension bolt on this car, and it's put together very well. I spent over 6 months comparing, and I must admit that I came away most surprised.

w9cw · March 2006

A quick comment on the possible demise of the domestic auto industry . . . and, its effects.

I suffered through an effective collapse of an American-dominated manufacturing base in the '60s and '70s, and lived to tell about it. This market is effectively now owned by the Asians, and every one else, and has been for a number of years. What industry is this?? The consumer electronics industry.

As some of you may know, all radio, TV, etc. manufacturing at one time was done here in the United States. Good names like Admiral, Magnavox, Philco, RCA, Sylvania, Zenith, etc. - the names are endless. Now, some only exist in name only as names placed on a product by a contract manufacturer in China.

Why did domestic consumer electronics manufacturing fail? Due to off-shore competition, first from Japan, then Korea, then Taiwan, then Hong Kong, and ulitmately China. Sound familiar . . . with some exceptions, the same thing is happening with the auto industry. Quality for a less expensive price is the driving factor, especially so with consumer electronics, and also so with the auto industry.

We live in a capitalistic society. The basic economic tenent of capitalism is an educated and informed consumer purchasing the best and highest-quality product for the least amount of money. Given our high level of manufacturing costs in the United States, this ultimately dooms our own manufacturing base since we are now - as compared to days gone by - in a worldwide economy. We must compete on a level footing with China, India, etc. Not a pretty picture is it?

Everyone should be concerned about the loss of not only manufacturing jobs in this country, but manufacturing period. We all can't work in the service sector. It's truly a serious problem, but it's also a textbook case of capitalism at work.

jlawrence01 · March 2006

Everyone should be concerned about the loss of not only manufacturing jobs in this country, but manufacturing period. We all can't work in the service sector. It's truly a serious problem, but it's also a textbook case of capitalism at work.

How many people really aspire to work in metal fabrication, welding, and most of the "hands on" work that our fathers and grandfathers did? PAINFULLY few. We have been trying to hire qualified MIG welders, fabricators and the like with little success.

Despite the demand, the local community colleges don't teach welding or many of the other shilled labor positions that are required by many of the remaining manufacturers. They claim that there is lack of demand. If it were not for the recent immigrants, most of our productions would be outsourced off-shore.

Most young people that I know are heading off to colleges, not working in a factory setting.

iluvmysephia1 · March 2006

to look at just one aspect of the foreign-built SUV I own, and marvel at that one aspect, nvbanker? I lose credibility with comments like that?

Oh, OK. My first car was a '65 Ford Mustang. I have owned a '66 Ford Fairlane and various Ford Escorts and one Mercury Lynx station wagon. I know that Ford's are notoriously crappy in the electrical department, and blowing bulbs is a Ford trademark. I know from experience with them.

And I lose credibility with statements like that? No wonder this nation is bloated on NASCAR and huge, ugly pickup trucks and ugly, large SUV's.

The success of Toyota shows that there are a lot of Americans that do see the attention to detail of foreign makers with their rigs of any and all sizes. Kia and Hyundai are two more that pay attention to detail very well in their building and light bulbs, however dopely small a detail they may seem to you, are a detail to be correctly fit and finished. Yikes.

Unclear still?

nvbanker · March 2006

I'm not disputing what you say. You have more experience than I do. Do you think the technology is as advanced on the Hyundai as the same year Honda though? I don't. It doesn't show when yhou drive it, but an inspection of the engine bay yields a lot of GM looking older stuff under there that will work fine, but the nuances of fuel economy, ULEV, and other such things seem to be absent on the Hyundai. People still love the Tahoe - but compared to Ford's Expedition under the hood, the Tahoe is back about 10 years in technology. Pushrods, plug wires, etc. The Hyundai is nowhere near that bad, I'm just drawing an analogy.

w9cw · March 2006

No, I agree with you on the technology differential. Hyundai's application of technology follows or lags that of practically all of the Japanese manufacturers. But in time, just as with the Japanese manufacturers earlier, this will no doubt change. The Japanese were originally followers as well; in fact, they were great "copiers" - but, the copy was most often better than the original!! Rather than followers, the Korean manufacturers in time will roll out new technology too.

However, sometimes there is an argument to be made of keeping simpler technology. As your Tahoe/Explorer comparison, there is really nothing wrong with a torquey pushrod engine for consumer applications. They're cheaper to maintain over the long haul, just not as efficient. There are advantages to both designs.

1racefan · March 2006

talk of lightbulbs indicating the quality level of the vehicle is a little crazy. I have a Hyundai (an '02 with 73000 miles on it). It has been a great car so far. I did go through a 6 month period a couple of years ago where one headlight (same one) burned out twice, and several side marker and license plate bulbs burned out (in some cases, the same ones). I had the altenator tested by the dealer to make sure it wasn't spiking, and it tested out fine. In each case the dealer changed out the bulbs at no charge to me, and told me that occasionally they get in a bad batch of bulbs (whether that's true or not, I don't know). I can say that I have not had another bulb burn out since then, and that was a couple of years, and 25,000 miles ago.

bottgers · March 2006

My eyes are wide open. It's all about the number of vehicles that go the distance. None of the manufacturers (including the Koreans) build as many vehicles that hold up as well over the long haul as the Japanese. That is the true measure of build quality.

snakeweasel · March 2006

My eyes are wide open. It's all about the number of vehicles that go the distance.

No your eyes are shut tight. Its not about the number of cars that go the distance its the odds of the car going the distance.

If manufacture 'A' makes 100,000 cars that will go for 200K or more miles and manufacturer 'B' makes 250,000 that will who has the more reliable car?

If they both make the same number of cars then manufacturer 'B' is more reliable. Now in manufacturer 'A' only makes 150,000 cars and manufacturer 'B' makes 1,000,000 then thats a different story.

bottgers · March 2006

....by the Japanese last longer than those built by other companies. How are you gonna spin that? Face it, Korean vehicles just aren't as reliable or as well built as Japanese vehicles.

lemko · March 2006

...about Korean vehicles until my brother bought a new 2000 Hyundai Sonata. My Mom told me that my brother bought a new car. I asked her what it was and she said, "I don't know. Something with an "H." I immediately thought it was a Honda, but she said, "No, not a Honda." Hyundai? I thought bro had gone nuts. However, his Sonata gave him 5 trouble-free years. It even survived a collision with a deer. He traded it last summer for an '05 Sonata. He wanted to wait for the '06, but when he saw it, he opted for the older car instead. The '06 looks to much like a rip-off of the Accord. I don't believe Toyota has much to fear from Hyundai if it's copying the Camry per the Azera. Why buy an imitation when you can have the original?

nippononly · March 2006

Today? Maybe not. I looked at an Azera, and with a starting price of $24 grand, I don't think it will be a serious threat to any of the other carmakers' top-of-the-line sedans like Avalon and whatnot. But I am sure they will sell some, as it is a reasonable deal, and Hyundai is finding more loyalists every year.

Ten years from now? Toyota should worry about the 2015 Hyundais. Which of course it does. Toyota worries about the competition all the time.

bottgers · March 2006

....the leaders are concerned about their competition (as all good leaders are), they will remain the leaders. It's the complacent ones that need to worry. It isn't like the Koreans have an edge in technology or R&D or anything.

socala4 · March 2006

It isn't like the Koreans have an edge in technology or R&D or anything.

Leadership isn't just about technology, but about whatever combination of features can be used to appeal to a given segment of consumers.

The problem for makers such as Toyota and Honda is that quality (meaning reliability and durability) has been one of their key differentiators from their competitors. If Hyundai ultimately proves itself able to provide similar quality levels at a lower price, then the larger players will have a good deal to worry about. The successful Japanese players all entered the US market by starting out with a good reliable small car, which created brand loyalty that then allowed those same companies to migrate consumers into higher margin, higher cost products, so Hyundai's business model is nothing new, just moving at a much faster pace.

The low cost products provide the gateway to future business and pave the way for brand loyalty, which not only helps to sell a car today, but more cars in the future, so it doesn't help Toyota and Honda to have a viable competitor who can grab the customer at the gateway. If consumers come to see Hyundai as being fairly comparable but at a lower price, Toyota and Honda are going to have find new ways to distinguish themselves, whether that be through styling, warranty, service, high-tech or something that resonates with the buying public if they are to maintain their growth paths.

krispykreme1 · March 2006

"I don't believe Toyota has much to fear from Hyundai if it's copying the Camry per the Azera. Why buy an imitation when you can have the original?"

The Azera was released way before pictures of the Camry even came out so Toyota actualy copied the design if you think the Camry and Azera look similar.

joe97 · March 2006

Toyota has publicly stated Hyundai is not too be taken lightly. If I'm not mistaken, the Sonata had something to do with the early release of the Camry, in the US market.

And, it's not just Toyota, other automakers are also on the look out...

rockylee · March 2006

The real question should be this :

Will Kia or Hyundai, be around for very long ?

I say unless they really make some big improvements, Geely and the other 3 major Chinese Car company's will put Hykia in BK.

I'm saying this with all seriousness. The Big 3 and the Japanese major stars have a real following. The Koreans haven't yet earned that loyalty-Yet ! Well maybe iluv, is a true fan, but he is one of the few. My prediction Hykia will go "belly up" somewhere around 2020 unless they can make cars "El-Cheapo" like the Chinese. :surprise:

Rocky

snakeweasel · March 2006

Will Kia or Hyundai, be around for very long ?

Yep they are here to stay.

Geely and the other 3 major Chinese Car company's will put Hykia in BK.

Thats a mighty big assumption, if they put Hyundai in BK they will also put others in there with them. But thats a big if, no one is sure how the Chinese cars will be accepted here or what their quality level will be. We just may be looking at the new Yugo.

The Big 3 and the Japanese major stars have a real following. The Koreans haven't yet earned that loyalty-

Actually they have, Hyundai has a high rate of repeat buyers and are now even taking customers away from Honda and Toyota.

Hyundai offers a competitive reliable car at a good price, they are not going away any time soon.

nippononly · March 2006

HyKia's path to avoiding the fate you predict for them will be to follow the Japanese upmarket to the point where they are NOT the "el-Cheapo" brand by 2020.

If the domestics clean up their act by then and downsize appropriately so that half their sales aren't market dumps to fleets, the way will actually be cleared for the Chinese, ironically.

But the way to long-term stability is not to be the "el-Cheapo" manufacturer on the block. Retail is another story, which is why WalMart has been so successful.

The domestics will sink further into the mire before they begin to rebound, and Bush is gone in 2008. We may yet see government intervention on behalf of the domestics as a new Prez hits the White House and the domestic carmakers' situations become more dire, in the form of regulations or at least preferential treatment (like the latest CAFE reform, which allows GM and Ford to have lower fleet mpg averages because they sell so many large pick-ups over 8500 pounds GVWR).

joe97 · March 2006

This isn't fantasy automotive world so the percise answer to your question is a big NO...

iluvmysephia1 · March 2006

the answer to your question is yes. I tend to respect Hyundai and Kia just as much as Honda and Toyota. I am lookng at buying a Toyota or Scion but something tells me I'll actually pick the Kia come pcket book time.

Hyundai and Kia are a real juggernaut and they are a new world, competent automaker.

The Chinese have a lot of proving to do. :surprise:

nvbanker · March 2006

Rocky: In my experience, once somebody buys a HyKia, they tend to get good service from it these days, for a cheap price. They tend to like 'em, and become a loyal customer. New people are giving them a chance every day. I think the US is on the way out in Auto Production, at least building them in the US. But it'll be a long time before the Chinese take over HyKia's new following.

rockylee · March 2006

Money talks and you know the rest.....

China will undercut the Koreans by a large margin and
"reverse engineer" the Japanese cars. China might get so good at building cars, you might have a Aston Martin clone for $35 or 40K :surprise:

Think I'm crazy ? maybe....maybe not...I just hope I'm crazy, because I fear the alternative. :sick:

Rocky

gasman1 · March 2006

KIA built the Ford Festiva (a MAZDA design). I owned a 1991 and it was a fantastic "cheap" car. I've lived in Korea for two years on two occasions (US Army). They are an industrious people and will copy anyone and anything. My experience also found that though the copies would look good, the quality was never there. Not to say that they aren't improving...

Once upon a time, Toyota was new to the US market. The US auto industry didn't respect Toyota, so they weren't concerned about them. I don't think for one minute that Toyota FEARs Korean brands, but I'm certain that they respect them and are concerned about them.

I've owned 34 vehicles over the past 32 years. Most of them were US brands, a couple were European (BMW and SAAB), and six were Japanese (2 Nissan and 4 Toyota). My garage currently houses two Toyotas ('05 Matrix and '06 Highlander).

I really wanted to purchase an American brand last week when we bought our Highlander. Although, I could have purchased any American brand for thousands off the MSRP. However, for me, their value just doesn't compare to the Highlander.

The bottom line is that Toyota has earned my business for now and the fore-see-able future. They still need to continue to research and to develop quality products in order to keep me. That's my 2 cents.

iluvmysephia1 · March 2006

Toyota is already all over that one(researching new fuel-efficient, energy-efficient vehicles). Watch their soar upward just keep going and going. I'm looking at the new Yaris sedan and also the Scion xA. The resale values would hold and I like their looks.

But, the value quotient in Kia rigs is a strong, strong, pull, and the new Rio's are great vehicles. So much fun to research when you don't have to pull the big 'ole trigger, huh, car nuts?

norne · April 2006

You have a major flaw in your logic. If the chinese ends up building such great cars at bargain prices, it won't just be the Koreans who will be out of business. Why would anyone buy Japanese when they can buy chinese brands for thousands less

Hyundai's repeat buyer rate is 58% which is the 5th highest in the US market.

Only 4 import brands sell over 400k units a year in the US. The group includes Toyota/Honda/Nissan and Yup Hyundai.

rockylee · April 2006

Here's why I think I'm correct. If you take the average novice car person in america and ask him where Japanese branded cars are made at, he would say here in the United States. The perception is about all of them are. Well actually alot of them are made here in the U.S.

I do think the Japanese know how to build a car, and yes they pay there workers pretty decent to avoid unions. I do believe within 10-15 years if the working conditions don't improve the workers will unionize.
(That's another topic I won't get into)
However due to this perception and now years of expierence, the Japanese have built a very loyal following (Toyota/Honda/Nissan) like many of the domestics. Hyundai and Kia are making much better cars, but I'm afraid it might be to late for them to absorb competing with Cheap Carbon Copy "MB C-Class Type cars". Why would you buy a Sophia, when you can drive a Geely or Chery Benz :surprise: I like fintail and lemko, will refuse such clones.

Will the rest of America ? I'd say many won't. Will Kia buyers still buy a Hyundai Azera at $27K or a Geely 750IL at $25K ???? I feel the Japanese will survive the added Chinese Players.

I do hope I'm wrong, because even I would rather see americans buy Korean cars over Chinese !!!!
I like GM and Acura cars alot. I even like Toyota/Lexus cars. I don't care much for anything else.

I hope I can still buy a 80% "american content" vehicle in 20 more years. If GM/Delphi continue to outsource and close plants here in the states, then my choices will be further reduced. I will for one be waving the Japanese, South Korea, and most importantly the American and Canadian flags to fight off the "Big Red Machine". These are America's Allies and we better support them. I hope other citizens feel the same way.

Rocky

nvbanker · April 2006

>I do believe within 10-15 years if the working conditions don't improve the workers will unionize.

Rocky - with all due respect, I don't think you get it. There won't be any UAW in 15 years because there won't be a GM or FORD in 15 years as they currently are configured. One BK action by either, would decertify the current Union contracts right now! They can strike if they want, but that's not going to get them jobs, when no cars are selling. It's over - only drastic changes will save the American Car Industry.

Toyota Fearing Hyundai?

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