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Comments
SemperFi06
The dealer did a software update and that was the end of that. The dealer had to call Star people because they had trouble getting the controller to accept the update. It has been fine since then.
nescosmo///
spete
I would venture to say as many as ten others have mentioned getting names and VIN numbers, and I think one actually started a place in these EDMUNDS forums to collect the information. Let me say that this is useless effort unless there is someone who has the organized skills, and has a backbone, and the time to follow it through. Then there is the responsibility to keep the people who sign in with the information, secure to them self. Submitting the information is not an easy task either.
I have also watched several others threaten law actions, and they too have just petered out. One single person can't fight a giant like DCX, the way they ignore and pass you along is an endless maze. Only by reporting this to an agency that deals with consumer issues can really be of much help. But, what consumer agency? That is perhaps the biggest question.
I know I sure don't put my information in a spot where anyone can just take it and misuse it, and that does happen.
I would be interested in helping get this moving, but there needs to be some way to communicate first that is safe, and keeps out identity secure. I would not doubt if retaliation could happen by interested parties who would want such a movement stopped.
I look to hear from you soon.
Farout
i have an '02 liberty, i bought it new sometime in '01. one thing i loved was actually the gas mileage. i live 7 hrs from home and could almost make it there without having to fill up more than once.
about a year ago i started having bad gas milage (i could tell a difference).. i've had my fuel injectors flushed which helped for about a week.. still having this gas problem.
last september, i had to be towed to a dealership, and was told my power steering pump was out, and i needed a new one. (im a girl, and daddy is far from here, so i'm hoping it wasnt just a leak)
earlier this week, car needed to be towed again, couldnt move the steering wheel at all when i woke up to go to class. was told the power steering "cooler" was out. -- needed a new one. (anyone ever heard of this???)
when i left the dealership, i heard kind of a whistling noise coming from the passenger side under the hood. i hear it when i'm at a stop. -- took it back, and they couldnt hear what i heard.
two days ago, i left my car running and walked around the back to dump my trash, i heard a constant clicking, or knocking sound coming from the rear of my car. i can hear it best when i lean down by my back tire. my friend thinks this is the fuel pump needing to be replaced???
i hear a "grinding" noise that seems to come from my front breaks when i come to a stop. doesnt happen all the time, but it's a scary sound. took it in, and they couldnt find anything wrong with my breaks.
thanks for any information!! :confuse:
PS) my liberty has about 70,100 miles.. and when its not having these problems, i still love it.
1. Change the fuel filter yearly in a gasser. The quality of all fuels in this country are marginal at best. Stick with a name brand like Chevron/Texaco or Shell. In spite of what everyone says, they are right that the base stock of gasoline is the same, but it is the additive package that makes the big difference. What about the air filter? Has it been changed regularly?
2. Use a good fuel additive. There are many good ones out there and they are cheap insurance. Consider Techron products from Chevron or products from Redline.
3. A "clicking" sound could mean tappets/lifter issues. Do you have adequate oil in the engine? What kind of oil are you using? If you have changed your oil regularly and the top end of the engine is clean, consider using a synthetic oil. A knocking sound might be a bearing in the engine. Do you hear the "knocking" when you are underway?
the clicking sound only comes from the back, i cant hear it anywhere else unless i get out when the car is parked, and stand or lean down by my back tire or by my back hatch. i dont think its anything to do with my oil, as i've changed it lately.. i don't think its anythingunder the hood, i think its something in the rear. when the car is parked nothing is moving around where i hear this noise, there arent moving parts. (i dont think). i'm sure it keeps on while i drive, but i cannot hear it.
thanks
PS) can someone explain what "tappets/lifter issues" are?
As to the oil, just because it was changed recently, does not mean it is full. When it was changed, it could have been have been over filled or under filled. Have you checked the level?
Which back tire are you talking about when you hear this "clicking" sound? Have you ever opened the hood with the engine running to see if you can hear the sound coming from the engine? If you have not opened the hood with the engine running you need to do that. Many engine sounds/vibrations can travel down the exhaust system and it can appear as if they are emanating from the end of the exhaust system when the source of the sound may be from the engine or engine accessory under the hood.
As to lifters/tappets, these devices are basically the same. They are intermediate devices between the camshaft and the valve that transmit the force of the cam lobe to an intake or exhaust valve opening and closing it.
ill check the oil...
i've opened the hood, it isnt coming from there only hear it when i am at the back of the car near both tires. it sometimes takes the car being on a minute or so until it starts and stops the exact time the engine is off.
i have a feeling my friend is right about the fuel pump.. i'll let you know when i take it in for the recall. i'm going to have them check this sound out as well.
thanks
For whatever mileage you have on the vehicle, DCX will say that you drove that amount of miles. It makes no difference by Ford, Toyota, Jeep, or whom ever, they all demand you pay for the miles you got use out of. Even if 1/3 of the miles were to and from the dealer for repair, you used their miles (if they buy it back then it was their vehicle you were driving, and you used their vehicle and put miles on it) so you become a renter. I fully expect the miles you drove will cost you $ .50 cents a mile. If there is some very unusual circumstances they can adjust the cents per mile all the way down to no money for miles driven.
If you have not followed the Lemon Law as it is written in the Jeep Bag in your dash, you won't stand a chance! Lawyers don't bother DCX or any other vehicle maker in the least! Remember these makers have a fulltime staff of lawyers and many are assigned specfic areas to defend DCX.
I had a Caravan and we had it for 9 months and put on 21,000 miles. We were towed so many times and in some very hard to find areas. We waited several times for up to two weeks waiting for transmissions, motor flange that held the motor in place in the back near the fire wall. The power steering hose broke, the power steering pump and the rack and pinion went out twice. Water pump, two computers, ABS sensors went bad, timing belt broke, just to mane a few things. We were in the shop more than 22 times, and nearly most required over night stay.
The Service Manager was really getting really tired of my being irritated and complaining so much to him. I was really upset but really did not know what to do. He said we was going to get a "pilot" and then I would drive with it for three days. This did take place. About ten days latter I got a call from the Business Manager, asking for my wife and I to come to his office that evening. When we got there, the Zone rep had a brand new Caravan sitting there. He said because of the many problems we had he would swap ours for the new one just like ours or pick a different one. The replacement cost us $12.50 for the State paper work.
I want to tell you we had every piece of paper that had ever been done to the caravan, and even the Tec's name who worked on the vehicle, and any comments that any dealer worker said about the Caravan.
We never got rude, and we always said to whomever that all we wanted was to be treated fairly.
I know the system works as long as you have proof of what you say, and a record of what others who work with the vehicles have said. Facts can't be discredited, and if the facts are backed up with written proof it is a locked tight situation they can't worm out of.
I have been aware of sever who attempted to follow the Lemon Law who got no where because they did not have everything they said backed up and organized. In a real way you have to be as well prepared as their Lawyers. Sad to say very few owners can be cool and relaxed, have what they are going to say well rehursed, and be able to find the materials when asked to furnish evidence for what has been said.
The expert Lawyers vehicle maker have, are well trained to make you look like a foolish owner who was responsible for what ever went wrong with this vehicle. So know your presentation, have the facts in order, and have some humor ready to smooth over the rough spots.
Good luck.
Farout
Do you have the correct dipstick for the engine? I have read somewhere that the incorrect dipstick may have been put in some of the CRD engines.
Have a reliable diesel mechanic check the CCV system to make sure it is working properly.
Check for external leaks!
Find another dealer. They sound like losers.
Call the Customer service line at 1800-992-1997 and make a request for some help. But avoid what kind of jerk told you oil useage like that was ok...It just an't so..
Farout
One way could be to limit wide open throttle (fuel flow). But that does not make any sense since at wide open throttle engine rpm is high and torque is already low compared to maximum available. So that would not do much good. But, It would not hurt our mileage since we do not run at wide open throttle when getting good mileage.
Another way could be to back off on the timing. That would cut torque and horsepower over the entire range. And, I think that would affect our mileage and performance.
Another way could be to reduce the power temporarily during shifts. That might reduce performance and fuel economy in town but not affect fuel economy on the highway.
Still another way could be to reduce the maximum boost. That might reduce all out performance but not affect fuel economy during normal driving.
And finally, it could be a combination of all or any of these or something(s) I havn't thought of.
Whatever, it sucks the big one because we paid for 295 lb ft of torque and DC should not be able to take that away. How much do they want to take away? It would seem like it would take a 10 percent reduction to do much good and that's 30 lb ft. What makes no sense to me is that I have never been able (as far as I can tell) to use full torque anyway (maybe at 1800 rpm in low gear) because the tranny runs away from maximum torque, usually before WOT.
I'm going to seriously drag my feet on getting this done. However, I am afraid that DC will try to void my warrantee on the tranny if I wait too long to get the torque converter done and the tranny fails in the mean time. :mad: :confuse: :sick:
Thanks for your input. I am going to make an appointment with the local dealer tomorrow to have this done. I will call Chrysler though to see what this really entails. As I get information, I will pass it on to all in this forum.
What I do suspect is that the RFE545 trans we have on our Jeeps is a junior version of the RFE545 they put on the Dodge Ram trucks with the hemi. DCX has been making junior and senior versions of transmissions for many years. The difference between the two versions is not only size but also the toughness of the internal parts. What I learned was that the issues of the senior transmissions are usually found in the junior sibling.
According to the recall notice, it should take the dealer 5.5hours to perform the service. If they find that there is more damage beyond the torque converter, then it will take them 6.5 hours. If the latter is the case, then I will ask them to put a Transgo shift correction kit that is available to fix some issues inherent to the RFE545.
On the recall I wonder if they change out the TC can we say no to the re-flash? I am not a fan of DCX's re-flash ideas. I believe I am calling the Customer I D C number and finding out what the re-flash is going to do. (I D C is I don't Care) We do not deserve any better, because we were so trusting we bought a CRD, with no discount, to be part of a 11,000 member "Test Market". We trusted DCX that they would treat their customers better than the Yugo treated their customers. I think DCX used Yugo's how to rip consumers off, and make them pay extra to be a part of a "test Market". Recently DCX called the CRD an experiment Why were we not informed? I must have a had a sign on my forehead that said DUMMY. I like the CRD but DCX's tactics are less than ethical!!!!
Farout
P0299
P0410
done
I can only guess that these two codes or at least one of them is related to the dreaded EGR valve problem.
I will call the dealer in the morning to make arrangements to have this fixed along with having the PCM also replaced at the same time per Farout's experiences.
As to your comments, Farout, concerning the trans recall, I agree about the re-programming part. There is a company in Texas that does nothing but modify the RFE545. Their torque converters are made with brazed parts and they use carbon fiber and kevlar for the clutch material in the transmissions they modify. I would like to see if DCX will use their parts in my CRD.
According to DCX, the dealer will inspect the trans and TC. If no damage is found then they may or may not detune the engine but will reprogram the TCM.
I spoke to this performance trans place in Texas about this issue and they thought DCX's approach to the problem was back asswards. Their updated TC is only $450. They have a shift correction kit available for $45 from Transgo that I will ask the dealer to install.
you have to check:
air filter
air restriction
check air leaks
check the boots control vacuum supply
boot pressure actuator and
check turbo charger.
The P0410 don't know that one.
Nescosmo.
Farout
Thanks for the information. I will look at this on Thursday, my next day off from work.
I went to the local dealer yesterday and they could not find out what the P0410 code was about. Rather strange. As to the P0299 code, the tech did stated that the K&N air filter could potentially be problematic but did not explain how or why.
Nescosmo.
Dale
Farout
I think you are making to much out of very little. I suggest you have the F37 done and IFyou can feel any lose of HP or torque then take on.
Farout
I appreciate the info. I get mine done Monday.
Farout
Any advice - like did you have filters or anything else that would be good to have replaced while they were in there? Do they cover any of that? Thanks for helping us all be smarter before we do the F37!
1 more F37 related - Occasionally I pull 6x12 enclosed trailer with the kids trail motorcycles in it. I turn OD off. Can you tell me what rpm I may be running at 60 with OD off after the F37? Thanks - In Michigan w/ 2005 that I have put 30K on so far with no engine problems. Thanks!!!
Kind of funny though, the original dealer I was going to take the CRD to do this is not even aware that this recall exists so I had to find another dealer.
Farout
Got further info on the PCM (engine) programming from the adviser. According to him the torque will curve will be flattened and widened. He had no info about the TC. As to the programming of the TCM, it is whatever DCX decides to give us. The shift quality cannot be modified unfortunately. RATS!!!
I have a love/hate relationship with this car. I like the performance, but I have had it in for two recalls and an engine soft plug leak. My dealer continues to be superb----but I wonder who at DCX was in charge of this project. I have not had problems with the emissions system yet but I'm waiting. After purchase, I immediately installed a K&N filter and I have not used any bio-diesel------in spite of my strong desires to do so, and I wonder if that has been the difference.
The bottom line is that this is my last DCX product. My other car is an Acura---great performance---no problems---superb dealer support. I want to by American, but I'm having trouble with the quality of the product.