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Comments
so i can't complain. :lemon:
I have had the torque converter recall done and i was shocked by the lack of grunt after the reprogramming of the ECM. I didnt know if anyone had any thoughts on my problem- if it could be only a turbo problem or if it could also be related to perhaps a mistake during the recall repairs.
The turbo doesn't seem to have that "kick in the pants" boost it had before. I don't know how the changes will affect fuel economy.
Gary
I have had the F37 done and find that it is easier to modulate the throttle from a dead start. The firmer shift is actually better for the trans in the long run (less heat and friction).
Farout
I for one cannot tell the difference in torque output. Did some long hills (10% grade over three miles) at 55 MPH and accelerated to 70 MPH and found that the pulling power in top gear was still there and seemed unchanged. FE has improved though up about 1.5 MPG. I find, as I mentioned previously, that modulating the accelerator pedal is easier than before.
I have not had the F37 done yet. I'm waiting until there is less chance of snow and ice before I have it done. Anyway, Winter2 may have a point, sort of. There may be another reason why you torque is down a little. Have you cleaned your boost sensor yet?
Over the past few months my CRD has been loosing power and economy - and smoking more. At first I thought it was due to ULSD, then winter ULSD, then cold weather. My last two road trips netted 24 MPG - all time low. After cleaning the boost sensor mileage jumped back up to 28+ mpg which seems about right for winter ULSD. The dirty sensor causes the boost to read low and the input air temperature to lag causing improper fuel metering/timing, probably.
It is easier to clean than changing a spark plug. It is located on top rear of the intake manifold on the driver side. It's right behind the fuel pressure sensor that is attached to the fuel rail. Just remove the engine cover and unplug the electrical connector on the fuel pressure sensor and the boost sensor. It's held on by one 4mm allen the goes straight down. It is sealed in the manifold by an O-ring that stays with the sensor when it is easily pulled out. There is a washer on the allen screw to watch for. The sensor cleans up easily with brake clean and compressed air or maybe just compressed air. Some use carb cleaner. I think that stuff is a little harsh to use on plastic but they say it's okay.
After cleaning there is almost no black smoke - less than new. On a flat highway the engine rattles again running 60 mph since it's under such light load. Hasn't done that for months. :surprise:
I took our CRD into our selling dealer yesterday to have the electric mirrors and the rubber gaskets around the doors checked to see if they needed adjustment or replaced. They have a new service writer a real smart butt! I went to see how the tec was doing, as it had been 1 1/2 hours and no word. That service dude came after me like I was fresh meat and he was a hound dog. He told me to go back to the waiting room as this was not for customers. I have done this many times before with no issue. When the Jeep was done the guy said that as a good fellow he was ordering 4 new rubber gaskets and a new switch, and it was because we bought it there. I said you ought to take care of it, and I expect it. (we bought the Max Care 100,000 mile service contract) The vehicle has the 36,000 mile warranty. So his line I did not buy. Then he tells me unless I change fluid in the axles and T case my warranty is no good. He infacticly says this is to be done every 12,000 miles. The cost was $279. US. I told him I would consider it next time I have it serviced. (But not by this place) I looked and under schedule A you just check it never change it. I an not a schedule A or B, so I split it, I change my oil every 7,500 to 8,000 miles. I have towed a trailer three times for a total of 400 miles. So what do you think? I think he believes I am a rider on the back of a turnip truck that just came in. Any ideas?
Farout
This was a good place to go for service until this kind of high pressure guy entered the picture. I will return to the Dodge dealer I have used for a good number of years. There I can even request the Tec I want to work on my Jeep.
Farout
Farout,
You can clean the sensor easily. Just make sure you have enough light because there is a 20mm long M5 screw with a flat washer to hold the sensor against the manifold. This is very close to the firewall, meaning difficult to illuminate and to get your hands around the job.
First, disconnect the common rail and the boost sensors.
I used a normal 4mm hex key on it's long side to reach behind the wiring harness and the engine cover holding structure. A small tube or box wrench is a good way to twist the hex key. The screw is quite tight and "snaps" as it gets undone.
Once the screw gets freed from the thread, it can fall behind the engine if you don't pay attention and you won't find it anymore. The screw is made of stainless steel, so forget about the magnet to pick it up.
Remove the screw and washer before twisting the sensor to remove it.
Put the screw and washer on the sensor to put it back. Normally there is no problem to insert the sensor while holding the screw and washer with a finger.
Reconnect both sensors.
That's it. :shades:
Here is a view of the thing:
Just as a note I have called 6 major dealers, even one in Phoenix, Arizona, and Toledo, Ohio and not any of then knew a single thing about the boost pressure filter! This filter is listed in the owners manual as needing to be cleaned or replaced every 12,000 miles, but no one knew what it was. I even called DCX customer care, and they are trying to find out where it is located, and if we have such a filter. One service writer told me it was a brake booster filter, and my jeep does not have one. Why are people so reluctant to say "I don't know."?
May I say that I deeply appreciate your sharing the knowledge you have! Thank you very much.
Farout
Boiler
Two other things that might help. First, the big enclosed wiring harness on top of the engine can be slipped upward off the mountings and moved forward about an inch giving you plenty of room. Second, the plastic plugs on the sensors are press to release. If you warm up the engine before removing the plugs, the plastic releases on the plugs are more pliable and easy to release with no chance of breaking them off as when cold.
No fuel will come out when you remove the boost sensor. It's mounted into the intake straight down, not on the fuel rail.
I sent an email to my service Mgr at Woodhouse in Blair NE and he acknowledged this issue. Thanks for picking up the charge Caribou1. This is definitely an issue that needs to be taken care of periodically.
I am now reading 37 lbs maximum MAP after cleaning the sensor. The maximum reading prior to cleaning was 32 lbs maximum. That's 5 lbs increase in the reading! - not actual boost. The computer had to be confused about how much fuel to inject. The temperature part of the sensor now changes readings much faster. Mileage has improved and incidental smoke is gone.
But, I have noticed a shorter response time of the torque converter lockup. I think this makes sense because the dirt 'blanket' could have been delaying the response of the sensor. Under constant load I cannot understand how delaying the signal could affect mileage.
The change of maximum pressure reading in your case will be significant. My sensor had never been cleaned until I hit 90,000 KM. Time will tell.
I agree that the delay on the temperature part of the sensor would have little affect on mileage. I suspect the temperature sensor has more to do with engine warm-up and it would read accurately when the engine is cold and warm-up is probably slow enough that the sensor responds adequately.
You might want to read my post on the LIBERTY DIESEL forum. I made a mistake, and a real good one at that. Thanks for your patients and help.
Farout
I am assuming that you looked at the picture posted by Caribou1 and you know exactly what it looks like. The 4mm hex screw that holds it in place is behind the sensor right by the firewall. After removing the screw, it pulls out easily with your fingers being held in only by and o-ring at that point. Just wiggle it back and forth with your fingers and pull it up and out. The first electrical plug goes into the fuel sensor and the back plug goes into the boost sensor.
Before the recall I got an intermittant "shudder" as I came off of an acceleration up to hiway speeds(above 60mph). The vehicle had been in twice for this problem before the recall. The first time they didn't even drive it, they just hooked the computer up and cleared "Error Codes" caused by the transmission. The second visit the stated could not duplicate. Funny it did it on the way home. The shudder got worse over time. The recall came and I had it done. Now I get intermittant hard shifting at the same area (60 MPH), reduced fuel economy, reduced power at highway speeds, the engine is louder than it was before, more smoking and it starts like a big diesel truck if it is cold outside (never did this before)(sounds like the little CRD is going to come apart for about the first 10 to 15 seconds). Anyway it is going back on Friday. The dealer agrees that they may have messed something up. My wife normally drives this vehicle and she notices these problems. I drive it rarely so I really notice if there is a change in the vehicles behavior. We sat down and made seperate lists of what we noticed about the vehicle after the recall and both of us had almost identical lists. She fuels it up so her list included the fuel economy drop.
I also had a problem with the tilt steering recently. You know how you tend to settle into the seat over a drive and pull yourself up. I placed a small amount of force on the steering wheel to pull myself up and the steering wheel dropped to the lowest setting. I thought maybe the tension lever may have been loose so I tried it again but it was tight and the wheel drops without much effort. Very dangerous. The wheel will wobble when it drops. Don't get caught off guard!
and am bothering my hubby for lifts everywhere.
Call me silly but this car is self destructing. The lemon law only lasts 1 year in Alaska. It must have known it had to make it till then. After 7 plus flats, etc, etc, etc,
this is getting old. Especially in minus degree weather.
The rental car I had from Chrysler's check engine light came on; they told me not to worry until it flashes. Tire sensors went off. Shift stick wouldn't shift.
Mighty fine autos they have. 5 star dealer.
Jeepster in North Pole, AK. :lemon: :lemon: :lemon: :lemon:
As for the results:
before: road test this am, 22F, 58 MPH, 21.9 MPG :sick:
after: road test this pm, 19F, 58 MPH, 28.0 MPG
Farout
farout
Can't believe the difference. No more black smoke! Even when I shove the accelerator through the floor board (emergency manuever yesterday). I can't verify increased mileage due to constant use of 4WD in conditions you should be be happy you can move...not complain about the mileage. I cannot believe how much soot was on the boost sensor. Pure speculation on my part, but I am beginning to think that this soot build-up made the engine/computer run in an over-rich condition which further exacerbated the problem.
Has anyone ran their vehicle on ULSD and re-checked the sensor after 6-10k miles yet? Does the Provent discussed eons ago prevent this situation form re-occuring.
jamesl76470@sbcglobal.net
Garu
The sensor is behind the EGR system, so exhaust "solid" matter is mixed with remaining oil fumes. I strongly believe we may have to clean out the manifold after some time. It's just too cold to work outside right now!
I remember seeing VW manifolds clogged by faulty EGR valves on another forum. We should be in the same case.
After my blooper of putting 11 gallons of Karosine in the belly of the "green Beast" it just runs like ready to run the "tour De France" (hope I spelled it right. Spelling is not my good point)
We have snow again! (we love snow and it's one reason we settled here) The only thing we shovel snow off is our steps in front and back which total 5 steps. We have several bags of salt that rids the ice pretty fast.
Yesterday I paid $2.26 for diesel (ULSD) at WalMart. I get the best mpg with this fuel of any place. How can WalMart have the better fuel? I have checked and by adding the PS anti gel/Cetane booster/ lubercant I get at least 1 mpg less! How would think that happens?
The news on Mikes Tottaly Free Jeep News says that Dr. Z is in serious talks of selling off Chrysler Motors with GM. There is big doubts this will fly because GM is not stable in its own finances. China is also looking at this too. Also Nissan-Renault are entering into the talks too. Wouldn't it be crazy if KIA or some other 3rd world country bought Chrysler? Frankly what all vechile makers fail at is a vehicle that gets 30 mpg, is mostly utility designed, and affordable for the higher Low income people can afford. The VW Thing was pretty close to that. They say the Smart Car will be sold here next year. I doubt it will be much of a seller, except in the cities. I drove a Versa recently and Zi was really impressed with the quality and the great front and back seats room for your feet. It had a very nice ride and power was good.
farout
We should stay away from polemics: Kerosine cannot be used on the Tour de France because it has less BTUs (understand testosterone) than diesel fuel!
(BTW Virenque is on tv right now :lemon: :lemon: :lemon: )
Dr Z wants to sell Jeeps and Smarts? We have them here!
When people drive bumper to bumper at 80 mph under pouring rain or just after the snow plough cleaned the road, what's your pick? When you have 3 grocery bags, what's your pick?
When trucks (70 mph) and DC prestige cars will no longer threaten those who must share the asphalt, then the Smart may call it a day.
It took me a long time and re-reading some of these posts and those at another (LOST) site before I got the nerve to clean the sensor.
Do I have to be concerned about this soot building up elsewhere in the manifold. If I remember many, many posts ago, you disconnected your EGR sensor. While i do not think that I can do this without throwing a code and light, is the Provent a necessary evil?
Boiler
Farout
I believe the Provent will help the EGR Airflow Control Valve to survive, at least postpone the problem. I mean the rotary sensor/potentiometer and other contacts of the butterfly flap.
I haven't installed mine because I found no reason to worry, since I only have the boost sensor along my intake path. I passed the 91,000 KM mark and my engine oil level is desperately stable. My EGR valve must be a solid chunk of soot by now, but if I have time this summer I will open the manifold for inspection. This engine has an excellent mechanical concept, it's just what's put around it that can cause problems.
Well, I discovered that disk wear is not really proportional to the mileage. It seems that once wear reaches 2/3rds of the way it is no longer predictable.
The same applies to the ball joints. They had 1/3 of the play they have today after only 5000 miles.
To conclude, it's time for 2 disks and a set of ball joints at 57,500 miles (92,000 KM). I have a bit more than 1mm play both sides.
To those who don't know how to recognize a worn ball joint:
- Lift the truck as described in the manual and let the complete wheel stay 3" off the ground
- By lifting the wheel you can feel, see and hear the play!
I did this once by hand and once with a lever. It's easy to do and a long depth caliper helps to measure the travel of the wheel against the fender.
Boiler
http://richard.fortin.free.fr/KJ_diesel/wornballjoint.tif
Notice the following:
- The protective boot is not altered and made from PUR translucent material (best known so far for this application),
- There is a lot of black grease inside the spherical chamber that looks like "Molykote",
- There is a plastic liner around the ball, and this is deteriorated at the neck of the ball,
- A fold of the protective boot is deteriorated over 1/2" or less and this gave way to humidity that you can see on the picture (where the grease is shiny),
- The groove of the ball assembly where the protective boot is fixed shows traces of rust but no corrosion got through yet.
To my understanding, the plastic liner of the ball didn't support the combination of grease and humidity. The only deterioration I can observe is the "collar piece" that is fixed onto the stem is chewed by compression against the outer wall of the spherical housing. When new, the plastic liner is an anti friction material inserted like a sock along the stem of the ball joint and protects the side of the sphere where the pressure is applied.
Conclusion:
It's the plastic liner around (and below) the ball that broke possibly due to the acidity of the grease and water mixture. Only the boot shows a 'pinch' that can let humidity in. The play of 1mm that I observed was in fact the thickness of the 'missing' plastic material. The ball itself is still in perfect condition and full of grease. But for how long?
This picture is taken when the top piece (steel pusher cap) is removed. You can see the plastic lining:
http://richard.fortin.free.fr/KJ_diesel/wornballjointtopoff.tif
This picture is taken when the upper plastic pusher is removed:
http://richard.fortin.free.fr/KJ_diesel/wornballjointinsidetop.tif
Here is the sphere with it's chewed collar and damaged lining of the housing. The lining is shaped like a barrel and the sphere is held captive in the grease just by pressing it in. It's difficult to see everything in detail because I'm doing this with a flatbed scanner
http://richard.fortin.free.fr/KJ_diesel/wornballjointliningbelow.tif
Finally here is the plastic lining seen from above. Notice the grease distribution slots:
http://richard.fortin.free.fr/KJ_diesel/wornballjointlining.tif
I'm keeping this stuff for the sake of curiosity. I'm pretty sure someone out there will be as interrested as I was :shades:
I think we can assume the cause for excessive play of these ball joints is that the plastic sleeve 'gives in' and flows until it hits the 'collar' piece mounted on the stem that is used for keeping the boot from collapsing and letting humidity in. Do you have any other ideas?
If your rpm's and mph are correct that means ours is really way out of normal. Let me know please. I will double check ours today to make sure that I may be messed up, as we older citizens get older the memory sometimes plays tricks on the recall part.
Farout
Gary
Farout