Honda Civic vs Mazda3

ex_tdier · May 2006

Are you in the USA? Do you have climate control in your 3? How often do you use your A/C and at what setting?

Considering the lack of customer service and acknowledging or dealing with issues with their vehicles, it is safe to say that there others like me who will not own another Mazda again. According to the lemon-aide guide, Honda is one of the few auto makers that may cover you even if you are out of warranty if item.

jme99 · May 2006

I am in the US. No, I don't have climate control. I use my A/C regularly in the warmer months (Northeastern climate).

I can't agree to having any negative dealings with Mazda's CS. This is my second Mazda and I was happy with the first one as well (MX-6); although that car served bare minimum transportation purposes (spare me the responses everyone that was not a fan of the car). I wasn't asking it to do a lot in the way of performance or features.

My dealership is clean, courteous, and timely whenever my car goes in for servicing. I can't speak on any Honda experiences because I've never owned one. They make nice cars, but when I drove a Civic while shopping it left me wondering if something else was out there with a little more...energy. When I drove the 3, it just seemed like a better product.

thegraduate · May 2006

Hey, I'm just glad you didn't have to tell people you paid for a Probe (the Mazda MX-6 clone). That just sounds like you like uncomfortable medical procedures!

ex_tdier · May 2006

jme99, you must be carrying a horseshoe around or some other form of luck. :surprise:

carfanatic007 · May 2006

Honda has quality, reliability and engineering on its side. Honda is known world wide for its excellent engines. Mazda has struggled financially for years and is owned by Ford Motor Co. I have driven the 3S and to me the Honda equals its performance. Plus, I like the interior much better. The AC is very COLD. I don't think Mazda will be in business much longer, maybe a few years until they are absorbed by Ford completely. Don't get me wrong, the 3 is an improvement over the Protege (which I owned a 2001 ES). For people comparing the digital speedometers to Buick, your obviously just making comments to insult Honda. Everyone who owns one loves them. While the 3 is more "sports tuned" in the suspension, how come must kids buy hondas to tune? Mazda has a bad reputation, not entirely deserved, but it does have one. The Mazda 3 is a good car, but the Civic blows it away for most drivers.

thegraduate · May 2006

I doubt Mazda is going anywhere anytime soon...

Mazda has quite a boom going on right now, especially now that it is about to release two new SUV models. The 3 sedan has better performance than the Civic, but can't match the Civic's economy. It's a tradeoff that people have to choose between, but there is no "wrong choice."

Most kids buy Honda's to tune (or used to, anyway, I'm not seeing many tuner Civics from the 2001+ model years) because of the massive number of parts available, mainly because they are best-sellers (the cars, not the parts). More cars sold = a larger market for potential tuners. The sportier car to drive is definitely the Mazda 3s.

I've driven a Civic, a 2006 EX Sedan, and it left me hungry for a little more low-end kick. I'm a Honda guy through and through (I'm a 2-Accord owner currently) but I certainly see the appeal of the Mazda 3, and think due to the appeal of the Mazda's sporty nature, i don't think Mazda will be any less of a company 15 years down the road, as long as they keep things going well like they are now.

Now, as far as a car company being absorbed by Ford...well, we'd need to take that over to the Mercury boards.

mongoose65 · May 2006

Have to disagree almost completely. I drove both with an open mind and the Mazda was sooo much more fun to drive and was more stylish. I truly HATED the digital dash on the Honda. I could not find anything in all my pre-purchase research to suggest in the slightest that Mazda has a "bad reputation." In fact, I found just the opposite.

The bottom line is resale value. If it weren't, Hyundai and maybe even Kia would be much more highly rated these days. It's the poor resale that holds them back. Historically Honda and Toyota are the kings, but it's Japanese cars in general. I matched up 2004 Cicic EX's and Mazda3's with similar mileage and found them to have nearly identical resale values. The only ones better in the class were the Mini Coopers (big demand, little supply) and the Acura TSX (much more $$$).

So far so good with my Mazda. I felt like a total shnook in the civic. My Mazda gets compliments from my friends with Infinitis and Beamers. They are shocked at how zippy it is and how it handles for the price. And it looks pretty sharp, too.

As always though...civic and mazda3, both great cars for under 20k.

thegraduate · May 2006

I felt like a total shnook in the civic.

A shnook? This southern fella has never heard the term "shnook" before! A little help for the southern guy please?

By the way, everything else in your post made pretty good sense.

z71bill · May 2006

If you get a car with a problem they will not fix it -

I wish Honda would sell the Mazda3 as the Civic3 - then maybe I would be willing to take a chance on a 2007 model - but considering I know how bad Mazda treats CUSTOMERS that have defective cars it would be hard to buy another car from them.

aviboy97 · May 2006

Mazda has struggled financially for years and is owned by Ford Motor Co

They DID struggle, not anymore. If you check their earnings report for 2005, they had a monster year. Go to mazdaUSA.com to see for yourself. And so what if they are owned by Ford Mo Co? The Mazda3 is a [non-permissible content removed] car all the way. Built in Japan, designed by the Japanese. More Japanese then the Civic is (built in the US)

Mazda has a bad reputation, not entirely deserved, but it does have one. The Mazda 3 is a good car, but the Civic blows it away for most drivers.

Take a look at CR, and Mazda rates very high as a company, only Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura and Infiniti and Subaru rate higher. Besides, this forum is about Civic Vs. Mazda3, NOT Honda Vs. Mazda. The Mazda3 is one of the highest rates cars in the segment. Right there with the Civic. I don't know where you get your "bad reputation" from. If you are basing that on Ford influenced vehicles, why don't you take a look at the Honda Passport, wait, you might say that's not really a Honda, well, same goes for Ford derived Mazda's.

Most drivers concede that the Mazda3 blows the Civic away, performance wise anyway. Even Civic owners will attest to that.

It just comes down to which car fits your style better. For some it's the Mazda3, and some it's Honda. I have said a gabillion times, each car is a winner. And they are.

z71bill · May 2006

Think about it.

You say "Besides, this forum is about Civic Vs. Mazda3, NOT Honda Vs. Mazda"

So when you have a problem with your Mazda3 where do you take it to get it fixed? Do you take it to Mazda3? Or to Mazda? Its hard to not bring in some points about the company that is standing behind your new car -

I like the Mazda3 better than the Civic - but Mazda does not stand behind the cars they sell - this is not something I read in a car magazine - its something I know first hand - from owning a Mazda3 for almost 2 1/2 years -

I would love it if someone would prove me wrong - only one way to do that - post some information about how Mazda has finally stepped up to the plate and issued a TSB to fix the weak defective AC system. Someone please prove me wrong.

jpmccormac · May 2006

In the recent JD Powers ratings for initial owner problems Mazda was rated near the bottom (# 147 out of 150). Not good...

jme99 · May 2006

I don't think it has much to do with luck with the 3.

mrblonde49 · May 2006

I have driven the 3S and to me the Honda equals its performance."

Your impression is wrong according to hard data

samtheman1 · May 2006

I drove them back to back and I'm getting the 3s. You can feel more snap with the 2.3 and I'll gladly sacrifice 2-3 mpg to have the low end torque on tap. Also, I'd strongly recommend the manual over the automatic. But, as said before, drive them yourself and decide what you like.

carguy58 · May 2006

"In the recent JD Powers ratings for initial owner problems Mazda was rated near the bottom (# 147 out of 150). Not good... "

That is a 90 day survey I think which people complain about cup holders and their cups not fitting into a cupholder. People also list road noise as a compaint in those surveys. I have read about those 90 day surveys and they are not even worth paying attention too.

carguy58 · May 2006

"Mazda has a bad reputation, not entirely deserved, but it does have one."

Mazda does not have a bad reputation they (Mazda) just don't have a good perception of reliability when compared to Honda, Toyota, or Nissan. Mazda's are not known for being cars that can run into high mileadge like the Japanese Big 3 cars can. I still see plenty of 95-98 Protege's and 93-97 626's running on the road today though.

I have owned both Honda(acura) and Mazda products by the way and definately will be looking at both companies for my next purchase of car.

ex_tdier · May 2006

Mazda does not have a bad reputation they (Mazda) just don't have a good perception of reliability when compared to Honda, Toyota, or Nissan.

It's not perception, it's reality. That's also what these surveys from JD Powers show. Mazda's reliability is sinking fast. ONe day, Mazda will be known as the Japanese Ford.

z71bill · May 2006

No general statement will be true in every case -

In general - Honda & Toyota sell cars because they are known for excellent reliability - Mazda sells cars because they are fun to drive.

That is why the best case would be a "Mazda" that is sold by Toyota or Honda - it would not have as many problems to start with - and if something did go wrong with the car you could take it to the dealership and they would fix it. Which is something Mazda will not always do - even for obvious defects. I don't understand why they will not stand behind the cars they sell - my guess would be - they see it as an expense - When Honda and Toyota have problem cars (which they do) they see it as a threat to their hard earned reputation of building reliable cars - so they have much more to lose - so they jump on the problem and fix it.

People that buy based on reliability will not keep buying the same brand if they have unresolved problems -

But people who buy a car because it is fun to drive will accept more problems - they see it as the price of having a fun car. Just like they will accept tires that wear out after 20K - if they provide better cornering - and less MPG for more speed / power.

pat · May 2006

Let's get back to comparing the Civic to the Mazda3. We've spent enough time on the companies themselves.

leavenfish1 · May 2006

"But people who buy a car because it is fun to drive will accept more problems - they see it as the price of having a fun car"

Just what constitues 'fun' about the Mazda 3, say compared to the Civic?

richml · May 2006

Just what constitues 'fun' about the Mazda 3, say compared to the Civic?

The driving experience.

mrblonde49 · May 2006

"Just what constitues 'fun' about the Mazda 3, say compared to the Civic? "

This offers a nice description:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=108601

carguy58 · May 2006

avoid talking about brands and just talk about the cars themselves.

Anyway, I could understand if a buyer who is looking to buy a compact car is concerned about the 3's A/C problems and they felt more comfortable purchasing a Civic instead. The Civic has been around for many years and the car itself does have a great reputation.

gib11 · May 2006

I would wait before buying a first year new gen civic 2006. Go check the 8th gen civic forum site, You'll see what I mean. Very bad reliability for its first year. Recalls, TSB, name it!!!

ex_tdier · May 2006

Good point about waiting to get the civic, i forget to mention that. That's also why I didnt get the civic. Right now, I have to tough it out for a few years since the depreciation is the highest in the first few years. Maybe 07 or 08, by then the bugs will likely have been ironed out of the new civic. this is true not just for honda but ALL manufacturers.

And remember, your honda may not be free of problems, but it's how honda handles them and does what they can to remedy the situation, unlike Mazda. honda wants to keep their reputation, Mazda aka Nippon Ford, just doesn't care.

audia8q · May 2006

unlike Mazda. honda wants to keep their reputation, Mazda aka Nippon Ford, just doesn't care.

Thats just goofy....if they 'just didn't care' explain why they are selling more cars and making more money than they ever have before?? People don't reward companies that just don't care do they?? Perhaps not caring is a successful business model?!?!?

aviboy97 · May 2006

If you go to www.mazdausa.com, and go to the news section, you will see Mazda had a monster year in sales and profit for 2005. I would say a lot is due to the Mazda3, and it's popularity. I don't see any decline for Mazda, or it's reliability.

Also, I know what I am about to say is beating a dead horse,I apologize to the Host, but, if you look at CR you will see Mazda is near the top of reliable cars. CR talks about longevity and durability. JD Powers is initial 90 day quality ratings. Who here buy's a car on it's quality rating's for just 90 days? If there is anyone here who would, I would like to know.

ex_tdier · May 2006

A lot of people who know how CR works dismiss the CR's findings and go with JD Powers which is the opposite. Just because something is popular or is selling doesn't mean it's good or reliable. It's not about product it's about Marketing.

z71bill · May 2006

I don't think so - maybe the reason Mazda is making money is because they are NOT FIXING THE DEFECTS in the cars that they have already sold.

Don't honor your warranty - don't fix obvious problems - just say they are within spec - in the short run - these are things a company does to increase profit.

In the long run this type of business philosophy always ends up losing out to the company that actually has happy REPETE customers.

aviboy97 · May 2006

Just because something is popular or is selling doesn't mean it's good or reliable

I agree, but, I never claimed popularity=reliability. Popularity=Higher sales, which in turn usually equals high profits, like MY 2005 was for Mazda.

Look at the Pontiac Solstice, that is popular, but, I would say it's to early to think it is reliable. However, the Mazda3 has been reliable overall. I know there are a few in the forum that have had trouble, but, show me the perfect trouble free car, it does not exist. Not even Honda can claim they have never had reliability issues with their Civic, because they have.

I would go with CR over JD Powers. I own a car for more then 90 days, so, JD Powers means nothing to me. JD Powers is only a 90 day survey of initial quality. CR is longevity. Just as many disagree with CR, same goes for JD Powers. Heck, JD Powers rated the Chevy Malibu top of it's class for 2005. I don't buy it. Everyone is different, that's just my opinion. We are all entitled to one.

ex_tdier · May 2006

In the long run this type of business philosophy always ends up losing out to the company that actually has happy REPETE customers

I think this generally applies to North American manufacturers which tends to be borderline in this area.

When it comes to the Japanese cars, there will always be some poor unsuspecting consumer who will count on the Japanese brand name to make them feel confident about their purchase and the brand's reliability.

There is absolutely no incentive for Mazda to change, not at this point anyways.

richml · May 2006

unlike Mazda. honda wants to keep their reputation, Mazda aka Nippon Ford, just doesn't care.

I heard somewhere that this is stated in as yet unpublished chapter of The Da Vinci Code.

Can you tell us, of all the brands that Ford is involved with, what ones do they choose to support, and what ones they don't?

mongoose65 · May 2006

The postings get more and more bizarre.

So far the only recurring beef I hear about with the Mazda3 is a problem with the air conditioning (not malfunctioning, just not strong enough). I guess if you live in Arizona, you might have wanted to test that out before making a decision.

As for the rest of the posts, it appears to me the new Civic has 4+ recalls so far. The Mazda3 ZERO. Resale is dead even and ratings have them 1 and 2 respectively.

The rest is personal choice. I went with the Mazda and so far am quite happy. When I see a Civic go by I say, "hmmm, I know it's a good car, but I like mine better." Then I tap the gas and merge onto the highway with relative ease. That's the best part. No hesitation, no winding engine, no tach spiking. Just smooth response and plenty of pep. The Mazda keeps amazing me. I never thought a 4 cylinder car could perform like this (at least not one for under $20g).

Best to all.

forbes3 · May 2006

So why is that the Lemon Aide guide has not been recommending Civics and other Hondas for at least 5 years now? I seem to recall their recommending the Mazda 3 though.

thegraduate · May 2006

Never heard of this Lemon Aide thing...Who is it and where can it be found?

ex_tdier · May 2006

If one truly believes the only problem with the 3 is the A/C then needs glasses. For example, the most current posts at Mazda Problems and Solutions thread discuss other issues like the dangerous (life threatening), intermittent unsolved dying or stalling of the car. More posts at various Mazda forums. That definitely should tell you something.

Equally important and once again an attempt has been made to dismiss or overlook is poor the support of the product. Mazda just doesn't care. Is Mazda the worst car maker out there? NO, that's not the point. In comparison to the other Japanese auto makers, I would say it probably is the worst Japanese auto maker. It's the worst in customer service, service delivery and support when comparing it to Toyota, Honda, and probably Nissan.

Those that happen to be the lucky ones can never understand what those unfortunate souls have to go through unless they experience it for themselves. And sometimes, people are so blinded that they can't see what may be wrong with their car even if a mechanic told them; while other times, positive comments or posts are actually "plants" or moles from the dealership or car manufacturer.

For those that have bad experiences or lemons and there are many, we will continue to voice our concerns with the problems with our Mazda. We want others to know so they don't make the same mistake we did. And we're not going to stop voicing our issues despite the hijack attempts of the Mazda reps or those with a personal interest with Mazda North America.

There is no reason to trust the likes of Mazda. Look at what happened back 6 years ago. Mistubishi was implicated in 2000 in a cover-up scandal that resulted in the belated recall of about 600,000 cars and trucks, but company officials said they had resolved problems and repeatedly blamed poor maintenance by the trucks' owners.

A raid on Mitsubishi offices in 2004 ago yielded the evidence that exploded into one of the largest corporate scandals ever in Japan. Authorities say seized documents, and subsequent admission of fault by Mitsubishi Motors Corp. and a spinoff, Mitsubishi Fuso Truck & Bus Co., indicate that since the 1980s, the automakers systematically hid defects involving 800,000 vehicles. Among the hidden flaws were defective front axles on the same type of truck as that involved in a death.

If you like to gamble and be a risk taker then go for the Mazda.

z71bill · May 2006

Honda is making a mistake - the should offer the Si engine with an automatic tranny.

This would solve the lack of power problem - and even things up with the Mazda3 - maybe even pull ahead.

I just do not understand it - why only offer a manual?

I would be willing to bet - if the had both auto and manual in the Si they would sell MORE AUTOMATICS. This would be even more the case with the 4 door.

Just because I want an auto does not mean I don't care about performance - I just do not like to sit in traffic for an hour or two with my foot on the clutch - been there - done that. As long as I live in a heavy traffic area it will be auto only.

mcswine · May 2006

I'm not sure how well an automatic would work with the Si. From what I've read, the real power lies between 6000-8000 rpm with a redline shift on the manual putting you in that powerband in the next gear. While it may not necessarily be undrivable, it probably wouldn't be much fun. That said, I can certainly relate to sitting in traffic with my foot on the clutch...I do it every day in my 3, and it gets tiresome.

tazereli · May 2006

how it it that Mitsubishi's problems make Mazda look bad? To me it's like saying its raining outside because I have coffee in my mug. :confuse:

mrblonde49 · May 2006

Those that happen to be the lucky ones can never understand what those unfortunate souls have to go through unless they experience it for themselves. And sometimes, people are so blinded that they can't see what may be wrong with their car even if a mechanic told them; while other times, positive comments or posts are "actually "plants" or moles from the dealership or car manufacturer. "

I'm sure there are negative plants by competitors as well. Or hadn't you thought of that?

"If you like to gamble and be a risk taker then go for the Mazda. "

It's a reliable car, according to almost all sources. You got a bad one. All car companies have them

z71bill · May 2006

Good point -

what I was really asking Honda to do is produce a Civic with an automatic & a little more power under the hood.

I was looking ahead at the 2007 RSX - but just read that Acura has killed it -

Too bad Honda can't just put the 2. L from the Accord in the Civic - the extra weight would be a negative - but seems like the extra power would more than make up fit it.

aviboy97 · May 2006

In comparison to the other Japanese auto makers, I would say it probably is the worst Japanese auto maker.

So, you would put Isuzu, Suzuki, Mitsubishi, and Nissan ahead of Mazda? I would have to disagree.

To remain on topic, this is a Mazda3 forum, not the full Mazda line. The Mazda3 is a top ranked vehicle in reliability and customer satisfaction. This is fact. Yes, there will be people to experience problems, as every car has them. Also, I see some have had issues with Mazda customer support. I don't think that EVERY person that has ever delt with Honda customer service has NEVER had a complaint.

Mazda just doesn't care

Everyone has a different experience. I have heard great thing's. And like you and zbill, I have heard bad.

ncgull · May 2006

Here I was, thinking that the Civic Coupe EX was THE car for me, and had put the fondness and excitment I'd had for the Mazda 3 5-door (because it reminded me so much of my '73 Gremlin) right out of the running...and now all THIS discussion!!

I HAVE to buy a new car in the next two weeks, and this is killin' me. I am so scared of making a big mistake. The info here and on the Honda Civic Coupe board is scaring me to pieces, but then I read about the stalling out problems with the Mazda...I have no $$$ to spare when it comes to buying a car (trading it in after a year or so, etc.), and my boss has no more patience with my "car problems" after constantly being out of work dealing with my '98 Malibu LS.

How in the WORLD is anyone supposed to make a decision with all this pro-and-con chatter going on? HOW is this really helping people like me who are in a one-(modest)income, no-guys-to-depend-on situation and are looking for REAL advice and guidance on buying a NEW car?

I'm gonna cry now...excuse me....

:confuse:

backy · May 2006

Take a deep breath, maybe splash some cold water on your face. Feel better?

First, to make a decision like this you have to keep your wits about you. Crying won't help. You seem to hold reliability above everything else in your car buying decision. Have you done research on the most reliable small cars, e.g. Consumer Reports and/or the J.D. Power long-term reliability studies? If so you know that historically the Civic, Corolla, and Impreza (if you need AWD) have been very reliable, with the Mazda3 and Scions not far behind. One thing to consider is that the Civic is an all-new model, and new models (even Hondas) typically have some first-year glitches. The Corolla, Mazda3, Impreza, and Scions are proven designs. So is the Honda Fit, which just became available in the U.S. but has been sold around the world for five years. If you like hatchbacks, that is another car to check out. Any of those cars have a high probability of being reliable. Of course, there are lemons, and the Civic is in its first year, but the odds are in your favor with those small cars.

After you have narrowed the list down to 2-3 (which it appears you have), you need to drive the cars and think about all the other aspects of owning them. Are they comfortable for you and passengers? Do you like how they handle, and their performance? How is the ride--is it smooth enough for you? How is the noise level? How easy are the controls to use? How well does the A/C work (if you live in a hot climate)? How important is fuel economy to you--do a few more mpg matter? How's the cargo space, and how easy is it to load/unload cargo? Does the car have features that are important to you, whether it's a high-zoot stereo or moonroof or leather interior?

Once you've driven the cars and answered these questions, you should have an answer as to which car to buy. Hopefully you'll have more than one option, then you can go to dealers to negotiate and have an alternative if you can't find a good deal (e.g., discounts on Civics seem to be hard to find right now).

ncgull · May 2006

Thanks, backy...yep, the cold water helped (along with a bottle of Bass...), but won't solve my problem. I'm an online CR subscriber, but the Coupe EX isn't listed... I've done LOTS of homework, and thought I'd settled on the Civic Coupe until reading all the posts in Edmunds -- Honda & Mazda boards.

I've had the Mazda3 as a rental several times and LOVED it, but at the time, wasn't in the market to buy a new car. So, it was the first car I thought of buying when I found out my Malibu was DOA, but the Ford connection really bothers me. Minor, but irritating, things include the orange dashboard lighting (gross), and there's no iPod connection.

I tend to be conservative with my purchases these days after some emotional buys that resulted in a :lemon: (i.e, an '83 Firebird). I'll never forget the Pontiac salesmen LAUGHING at me when I brought it back complaining that the front seats were not latched down (you'd come to a stop and the entire back of the seat would move with you), finding a rusted screw driver in the engine compartment, and breaking down on the New Jersey Turnpike over July 4th because the car was wired through the fan which slowly cut the wiring in half...). I sold the car as quickly as I could (having it only about three months.) Buying a new car terrifies me -- and then hearing how Mazda isn't supportive, well, that harkens back to the Firebird disaster....

Test-driving and saying, "Oh yeah, I love the way this car looks and drives" really doesn't cut it for me. It's the long term dependability and service issues I'm concerned about...and after reading all these posts, I feel like moving into the city and riding the bus...to h*ll with a car....

:P

backy · May 2006

Well, you can save a ton of money by taking the bus.

Notice I said do the research first, narrow down your choices, then take the cars for a drive. If you are going to over-analyze this (e.g. the "Ford connection"), it's probably best to get something ultra-reliable like a Corolla. Not as much fun to drive as a Mazda3, or even a Civic coupe, but maybe the most reliable small car out there right now. And there are good deals on Corollas now. Great fuel economy, also, and decent crash test results with the side airbags.

BTW, keep in mind that you are buying a car that happens has a sound system. Whether a car has a built-in iPod connection should be far down your list of priorities, since you can get a number of low-cost iPod connectors at your local electronics store.

You say you loved driving the Mazda3. Did you love driving the Civic coupe also? If not, that should tell you something. If so, you have some options--which is a good thing. If a salesperson senses you want only one car, watch out.

If you think the Mazda3's orange dashboard lighting is gross and you won't be able to get past that, better to steer clear of the Mazda3 then rue the day you bought it every time you look at the gauges.

ncgull · May 2006

backy..I'm CONFUSED, not STUPID! LOL! Yes, yes...you state the obvious, but I truly appreciate your time and effort in addressing my questions and concerns. Wish I had someone like you to go car-shopping with!

ex_tdier · May 2006

In this situation, where you aren't sure of the car's reliabilty. There is only one real solution and I have been in your place. I would lease whichever car you prefer. I would go with the Civic. If it turns out to be a dud or lemon, your fine. If it's reliable without many problems, you can always buy it at the end of your lease.

Personally, I would stay away from Mazda. Customer service is awful and I no longer recommend Mazda. Maybe in a few years they [Mazda] will improve like VW has, kinda. But, in all likelihood, they probably won't.

jimmyt2 · May 2006

My friend Got a Mazda 3 and it doesn't run. Good job Mazda.

Honda Civic vs Mazda3

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