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Lincoln MKX

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Comments

  • fleurdelisfleurdelis Member Posts: 9
    You are right about giving up the 3rd row. But our youngest son is a senior in high school now, so our days of hauling the kids to soccer games is finally behind us. The shorter MKX is even making parking lots more fun, as we can zip into a space with no backing up and straightening out. Comparing the MKX to our old GMC Envoy XL, my wife said the Envoy XL "drove like a tank"
  • ottavottav Member Posts: 31
    I was just reading in Edmunds that the 2008 Mazda CX-9 is going to have a 3.7 liter 270 hp engine. Can someone explain to me why Lincoln, which should be your top brand, does not get this engine, unless maybe it is in the plans for 2009MY? Why does Mazda get this engine and not Lincoln?
    In order for better brand differentiation between Ford and Lincoln, you would think this makes sense. Comments?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Simple - it's not the same engine. Mazda is creating it's 3.7L engines in Japan with different engineers, manufacturing plant, etc. Even though they share the block and possibly other parts it's not the same engine.

    Ford's 3.7L will debut with the MKS next summer so it's only a few months behind.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Yes. It's like Mazda getting the CX-7 out well in advance of the Edge. Similar vehicles with some sharing of bits, but they are not the same platform and Mazda took some things and went its own way.

    Mazda can be quicker than Ford to pull a project to Job 1 because it is not going through all of Ford's bureaucracy in designing and executing a product. But I hear Ford is working on getting things to market more quickly too.
  • dt63944dt63944 Member Posts: 66
    I looked at some MKX's on the lot today and although the seats look comfortable, I once had a car with hard-plastic armrests that were very uncomfortable and was one of the reasons I got rid of the car.

    The armrests on the MKX look like flat slabs of hard plastic. How comfortable are they? Is the hand grip in the armrest a place where one's elbow could fall in?

    Thanks.
  • bsmestadbsmestad Member Posts: 9
    Anyone know what changes are ahead for the 08 model? The wife's minivan needs to be replaced, and she likes the MKX. However, I'm not really sold as to me it sure seems like we can get more out of a MDX than a MKX for about the same price.

    I mean, it seems like the same gas mileage, but with HID headlights and a third row seat thrown in for the same price. Not to mention we like the Acura's green color better than the MKX's choices.

    But, I wanted to make sure. Figured you guys were the owners and salesmen of these. What am I missing?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I think you'll get more standard features with the MKX like cooled seats and the new Sync interface. Not sure about the rest - should be easy enough to check the features and prices.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,706
    Same price? I think the Acura's a bit more. I'm looking at the MKX instead for these reasons: price as I would option it is less (don't want sunroof, it's a deal killer for me, and don't need SHAWD in Dallas) is significantly less, and I do want (in Dallas) the a/c seats.
  • billsyrbillsyr Member Posts: 5
    Just wanted to share a few items on my new MKX
    * day time running lights didn't work on delivery
    * Front seats with A/C and heating is cool; but very uncomfortable
    * Headrests on front seats are terrible; they lean forward and push your head
    * Ride and steering are excellent
    * Backseat room is excellent
    * Too bad it's just like the Ford Edge; Lincoln should have not allowed that copycat
    * Gas milage is less than tested (what a suprise); we get about 19mpg
    * Pickup is excellent
    * Stereo is excellent however, auto volume control does not work (headed back to shop)
    * Car was delivered with less than excellent finish had to return to dealership for buffout; then returned again because front windshield was oversprayed
    Overall; good vehicle. Overpriced on window but deals can befound as you will see in these forums.
    Car purchased at Driver Village; North Syracuse.
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    No retail Ford has factory running lights on it when it leaves the factory. Accordingly they shouldn't work, cause you don't have them.

    DRLs are available to fleet buyers so a preowned might have them.

    I've already posted about the headrests. You really just need to recline the seat back a little then tip the seat bottom forwards/down. Just twist the seat control toward the front of the vehicle. This will change the geometry so that the head rest is not hitting your head but you are still in a reasonablely upright position.

    I agree though that the butt cushion is less comfortable than he Edge. But then the Edge doesn't have A/C in the seats.

    Mark
  • dt63944dt63944 Member Posts: 66
    Could you elaborate on what you found uncomfortable about the cooled seats? I understand these will be standard on MY 2008. Thank you.
  • fleurdelisfleurdelis Member Posts: 9
    Your experience is at often at odds with ours:
    * day time running lights
    I agree with mschmal's post on this point.

    *Front seats with A/C and heating is cool; but very uncomfortable - - plus - - * Headrests on front seats are terrible; they lean forward and push your head
    These items are very dependent upon your body size and shape - by contrast my wife and I find the seats to be very comfortable - plus A/C seats is something I never thought I would want, but have already gotten used to having, and the head rests - again no problem - in fact more comfortable than my prior vehicle.

    * Ride and steering are excellent
    * Backseat room is excellent
    We agree fully with you on this one.

    * Too bad it's just like the Ford Edge; Lincoln should have not allowed that copycat
    In my opinion, this is an unfair statement. After all, a great number of crossover SUV's bear a striking resemblance no matter what make you select. Because of that great similarity, what is left to distinguish one from the other? - The front end. And no one can mistake a Lincoln MKX with a Ford Edge from the front. On top of that, the MKX distinguishes itself from just about every other crossover SUV with its attractive full vehicle width rear tail lights).

    * Gas milage is less than tested (what a suprise); we get about 19mpg
    By contrast, we took our first 6 hour hiway trip this past Sunday and got 21+ mpg

    * Pickup is excellent Finally one item where I am less optimistic, because the V6 /transmission combo downshifts too easy for my taste - but then I am very likely spoiled because my prior SUV was a V8.

    * Stereo is excellent however, auto volume control does not work (headed back to shop) Everthing works on our stereo.

    * Car was delivered with less than excellent finish had to return to dealership for buffout; then returned again because front windshield was oversprayed
     After personally handwashing our MKX 2 times in our first week, I can confidently say the finish on our MKX is perfect. There were some water spots when we got it but those came off in the first wash.

    *Overall; good vehicle. Overpriced on window but deals can be found as you will see in these forums. By contrast, we feel that Overall Lincoln MKX is an EXCELLENT vehicle and not overpriced.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    In my opinion, this is an unfair statement. After all, a great number of crossover SUV's bear a striking resemblance no matter what make you select. Because of that great similarity, what is left to distinguish one from the other? - The front end. And no one can mistake a Lincoln MKX with a Ford Edge from the front. On top of that, the MKX distinguishes itself from just about every other crossover SUV with its attractive full vehicle width rear tail lights). Sure, a lot of CUVs look similar...they are after all the same type of vehicle. But you miss the point. The MKX can be easily mistaken from the side (the largest visual part of any vehicle) for an Edge, and it almost the same from behind. That is because, unlike say the Highlander and the RX 350, the Edge and the MKX use the same window glass, doors and body profile. That is too close to the badge engineering Ford does to distinguish Mercury: add on a different front end. Thankfully, they did a bit more than that with the MKX, but bottom line, Lincoln deserves more exclusivity than what it got in this vehicle. However, it doesn't bother you and the car is a deal within the class, so what's the problem? When Lincoln does get around to giving it its own look (and this complaint of some folks is gone), sales, already very good, will likely be even better.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I still don't understand how you can say that a Camry and ES350 look nothing alike while the Edge and MKX are dead ringers.

    I understand the side profiles are identical on the fomoco products - but so are the Camry and ES350 (to my eyes) plus the front and rear are much more alike than the front and rear on the Edge and MKX.

    I think the average consumer would not even know the Edge and MKX share a platform, much less side profiles. Just like most consumers don't know the 2003 Aviator and Explorer shared a platform and side profiles. They just don't pay attention like we do.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Oh, geez, I didn't mean to start this again! I accept that you see the Camry and ES350 as looking alike, and yes, they do. However, they do it with different bodies. Why then do they look so much alike? You got me. But Toyota goes to the length of giving its mainstream/near-luxury "twins" exclusive bodies whether or not they look alike. And Toyota more or less seems to know what it is doing.

    What an average consumer sees or doesn't see is also not the point. Until Ford cares enough to stop rationalizing their design shortcuts as acceptable because "no one will notice anyway," then they just do not get it. Some of us will notice that the emperor has no clothes, others will pick up on reputation (or lack of same for detail) and striving for excellence. The auto press will notice too. Cadillac is truly gaining in that regard.

    It is one of those things that will pay off, like improved tactile feel of controls pays off, as more and more people begin to notice they can have those things for the same money.

    I loved the Aviator concept. It looked exactly like a Lincoln CUV should look. That the MKX doesn't look much different from the concept is true, but therein lies the rub. The Aviator had Lincoln lines all around, not just in front. I am not the only one who was turned off by Ford's decision to use the Edge body panels instead (because after all, who will notice anyway?).

    I won't buy a new Lincoln again until they stop doing that. I may buy a used one, since with their depreciation being what it is, they are a good buy whether exclusive or not.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    So let me get this straight - you honestly think that Lincoln would sell more MKXs if they made some subtle change to the doors and roofline so that it was ever so slightly different than the Edge in side profile?

    Besides you - who has complained about this? I understand that's how you feel and that's fine but I can't imagine more than a mere handful of potential MKX buyers who feel this way. Certainly not enough to impact sales.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    You got it straight, yes.

    And yes, I get that to you it doesn't matter. And that's fine. But my question to you is why then do Toyota/Lexus and Nissan/Infinity and Buick/Saturn/GMC and VW/Audi (to name a few) bother with this level of detail? Are they not intelligent enough to realized that they could save these costs and not affect sales at all??

    And why is Lincoln now pledging to not do this panel sharing anymore? Perhaps they also lost their minds--or fired too many bean counters.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I didn't say it was bad or undesirable. Just that it wasn't the end of the world and changing it wasn't going to double sales overnight.

    I don't support making things different just to be different. I do support giving the designers more options by not forcing them to share body panels which is what I think you're really saying. So let's agree on that and move on.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    And I never ever said it WAS the end of the world, or would double sales overnight. Nor have I ever even thought that.

    I took issue with your insistance that "no one but you [me} notices these things." Designers and car companies of the world notice these things. Lincoln now notices these things. Thank God a lot of customers still don't.
  • mkxawdmkxawd Member Posts: 22
    Don't base your decision on inclusion of a 3rd row for a similar price. The question you should ask yourself is, "do I need (or want a 3rd row)?". The MDX is going to cost you more and one reason is the 3rd row. They don't give it to you for free. (They include it in the base price, which would probably be lower if there were no 3rd row). If you must have HID, don't buy the MKX. It's not an option. I have an MKX and I am extremely satisfied with it. By the way, the MDX runs on premium gas, the MKX, regular gas.... The MDX has a track record. The MKX is trying to build a track record... I think Lincoln has done well out of the gate... I'll have a little more detailed review later.. Good luck with your decision...
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    Average transaction difference between MKX and Edge is expected to be around $8,000.

    What are you getting for that $8k? I think what people are trying to say is that Ford needs to do a better job justifing the extra dough. I think in the future, the 3.7L V6 will go a ways toward that.

    The MKZ vs the Fusion. The extra 40 hp transforms the car.

    Mark.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    I hope that the MKZ will also get the 3.7 just as soon as the MKX does. Ford needs to drop the 3.5 into the Fusion/Milan soon in order to keep in competitive with its peers (Camry, the new Accord, Saturn Aura, the new Malibu). Ford is often behind in both hp and mpg, and that will only get more true the longer it relies on the 3.0 for the Fusion. (And why does the 3.0 not even make 30 mpg highway??)

    Anyway, Ford should not put the same engine in the Fusion and MKZ again, but to not give the Fusion the 3.5 to avoid that would be just another shot in the foot.

    Wait a dang second...what MK message board am I on?? :P
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Latest rumor is the Fusion gets the 3.5L in fall 08 which must coincide with the 09 model year refresh.

    If it doesn't there is a new version of the 3.0L tuned for 235 hp but better fuel mileage. It all has to do with the capacity of the engine plants to produce the 3.5L/3.7L.

    Ford engines have been sabotaged by Bill Ford's green thumb. Bill demanded better emissions over power and fuel economy. That's no longer the case and if you look at the 08 Taurus you'll see that Ford is quickly catching up in that department.
  • mkxawdmkxawd Member Posts: 22
    My perspective... The seats are not uncomfortable... I actually find the seats very comfortable. I have approx 900 miles on my MKX. I admit, I was concerned at first.. The actual seating surface (butt cushion ) is firm and for many that may seem uncomfortable. The cushions surrounding the actual seating surface are soft so your legs are sitting on the soft part of the cushion when driving... Good luck with your decision... The seats should not be a deal breaker...
  • brendaboobrendaboo Member Posts: 17
    I have to agree with MKXAWD. I find the seats really comfortable. The longest trip I took was a seven hour drive to the FL Keys and it was very pleasant. The air conditioned seats are wonderful when you first get in a hot car. I also haven't had a problem at all with the headrests that people have been complaining about. I'm 5'4" and mine is very comfortable with no adjustment needed at all.
  • dt63944dt63944 Member Posts: 66
    Thanks for the opinions on the ventilated/ac seats. Hopefully some will mention whether or not they found the door armrests comfortable or not; I had an Eclipse that had cheap, hard plastic armrests and my elbow fell right into the recess that you put your hand into to close the door, it was so uncomfortable and it spoiled what was otherwise a great little car. I just priced an X5 again last night and it's no trouble at all to push $70K with that car and around $43K for an MKX and I love how the reviews always manage to put a positive spin on the X5 when both are heavy vehicles. I realize that depreciation probably is going to be worse for the MKX, but saving around $25K upfront isn't something to be ignored, either, as long as one likes both vehicles...
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,706
    Good to hear. Sometimes seats that seem comfortable on a test drive can be bad long distance, and vice versa. I got to sit in the second row captain's chair in an Escalade (last gen) for four hours - first half hour they seemed soft and comfortable, but by the one hour mark the lack of firmness/support made them very uncomfortable.
  • sneakypiesneakypie Member Posts: 3
    A retractable cargo cover is available (in all 3 interior colors) for the MKX. Check lincolnaccessories.com (had to call Lincoln for this information). I ordered one through my dealer--who was as surprised as every other dealer I shopped--for my MKX.
  • mkxawdmkxawd Member Posts: 22
    Someone on this or another MKX forum mentioned that the add-on cargo cover is attached to the 2nd row headrests. Not a good thing if you're someone who needs to fold down the seats often for more cargo room.. What is extremely easy to do by a push of a button becomes very cumbersome (I assume)...

    Please let us know your thoughts after it has been installed in your MKX.. Shame on Lincoln for not including this as standard equipment. (SUV/CUV 101) ....
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    Cleveland engine was retooled for the 3.5 then idled because the demand for the engine wasn't there.

    appearently they didn't provide for enough 6F trans production.

    Mark.
  • magoo99magoo99 Member Posts: 13
    In response to brendaboo's concern about the armrests I can tell you that after 5,000 miles of driving I have not had any discomfort with them. While the inside door panel is a molded plastic, The top of the arm rest itself is padded. I find everything about the seat quite comfortable
  • mkxawdmkxawd Member Posts: 22
    Response to "Just wanted to share a few items on my new MKX "

    Mine: MKX, Pewter, Ultimate package w/THX & Sirius Satellite Radio

    * day time running lights didn't work on delivery
    >> Not an option on the MKX
    * Front seats with A/C and heating is cool; but very uncomfortable
    >> Seats are very comfortable for me. Just a little firm in the actual seating area. Fine with me..
    * Headrests on front seats are terrible; they lean forward and push your head
    >> Haven’t encountered any problems. I’m approx 5’10”
    * Ride and steering are excellent
    >> Agreed.. I was actually very surprised at how nice a ride… Even after test driving it 3 times and now putting approx 900 miles on it.
    * Backseat room is excellent
    >> Haven’t ridden in mine yet but certainly looks spacious.
    * Too bad it's just like the Ford Edge; Lincoln should have not allowed that copycat
    >> So what?…. I like the MKX very much… I didn’t even test drive the Edge because I did not like the interior..
    * Gas mileage is less than tested (what a suprise); we get about 19mpg
    >> Haven’t measured it. But I seem to be getting the same as my prior car, 2004 Grand Marquis. (v8 224hp)
    * Pickup is excellent
    >> I would say very good, not quite excellent.
    * Stereo is excellent however, auto volume control does not work (headed back to shop)
    >> Here I say excellent. No problems, yet…
    * Car was delivered with less than excellent finish had to return to dealership for buffout; then returned again because front windshield was oversprayed
    >> looks fine to me..

    Notes:

    Standard equipment should have included:
    >> Passenger Assist Handles for the front (at least the passenger seat)
    >> Security Cargo Cover.

    Plus:
    >>> Lincoln needs to do something about their gauges. In some lighting you can’t read any of the gauges.
    >>> I want a digital MPH readout which I had on my Grand Marquis. (I prefer digital dashboards)
    >>> The flashing lights button is in a very bad place for the driver. Flashing lights should be quickly accessible and easy to locate without having to look for them.

    More likes:

    >>>> I think the adaptive lights are terrific… Provides better visibility on dark winding roads.
    >>>> Glad Lincoln didn’t make HID lights standard.
    >>>> Nice touch… Headlights come on when the Wipers are on. I had this on my Grand Marquis. Makes more sense to me than turning wipers on automatically when it’s raining. Hello … I know when it’s raining.
    >>>> Back up sensors work very well... Don't need visual display.
    >>>> I love the understated and easily accessible to the driver dash. (Actually this seems to have been passed on from the Aviator)
    >>>> MKX uses regular gas. I believe the competitors are all premium gas.

    >>>>> I am very happy with my choice of the MKX… My complaints are things I can live with.. I knew going in that this was a first generation CUV for Lincoln so I can’t really complain…. And the price comes in well under the Lexus, MDX, BMW, etc. w/similar options..

    >>>>>>Conclusion: Without a doubt… I would buy it again and, I just might trade it in 3 years from now when (or if) Lincoln improves on some of the items I mentioned.

    Overall; good vehicle. Overpriced on window but deals can befound as you will see in these forums.
    Car purchased at Driver Village; North Syracuse.
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,286
    Thanks for the review. I'd be also interested in hearing your complaints.

    "My complaints are things I can live with.. I knew going in that this was a first generation CUV for Lincoln so I can’t really complain…."
  • mkxawdmkxawd Member Posts: 22
    Minor complaints are included throughout the review ...
  • avlvavlv Member Posts: 26
    Can anyone point me to an article or web page which indicates that the MKX tires were switched to Michelins for better stopping distance.
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,286
    Thx. They must be very minor b/c nothing jumped at me as a negative/deal breaker. :)

    Thanks again.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    No, because they wouldn't advertise or admit that. But that's what the insiders are saying.
  • cocoaownercocoaowner Member Posts: 2
    I can't say that there is no such message/claim, because I do not know. But it is very unlikely. With ABS, "skidding," in the old sense, just about never happens. A different rubber formulation and belting can improve skidding for a non-ABS car, and grip while cornering and in the rain, but those don't seem to be your issues. What the Michelins almost certainly do is improve "noise" -- to make it an even quieter ride. They also likely last for more miles and may be more puncture-resistant. All those would be reasons to have good-grade Michelins, IMO. If you are trading from the Continentals, on the other hand, I recommend you also check out the Kumho Ecsta KH11 -- it seems to get very high marks at tirerack.com.
  • mkxawdmkxawd Member Posts: 22
    I've had Mercury Grand Marquis' since 1992 until purchasing the MKX this year. All those Grand Marquis' came standard w/Michelin Tires... I assume Lincoln was trying to save money by making Continentals standard on the MKX.. I expected to see Michelin's on the MKX...
  • dt63944dt63944 Member Posts: 66
    Thanks for your opinion on the armrests; I'm just window shopping for now and it was hard to tell. Are the handles reasonably out of the way of your elbows? I had a car once with armrests that my elbows would drop into when the seat was I had the seat adjusted just the way I liked it.

    Frankly, the professional reviews of the MKX haven't been that kind but I love it.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I think it had more to do with meeting EPA fuel mileage targets than saving money.
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    The conti's on the first MKXs might have just been a result of Michs not being ready yet.

    Lincolns usually have Michs or Pirellis.

    Mark.
  • mkxawdmkxawd Member Posts: 22
    I had reservations because of the "Professional Reviews" as well.. Then I took the car for 3 test drives at 3 different dealers.. I now have approx 900 miles on my own MKX. I feel this SUV was made for me. Are there things I would have wanted differently? Yes... But no deal breakers..... Use the professional reviewers as a guide but ultimately be your own judge. I will say be wary of the Camel interior. From my perspective too much glare...

    My review of my MKX is embedded within a response to another person that gave a review of their MKX ... Good luck ....
  • 57will57will Member Posts: 5
    Growing up in the South Bronx during the '70's, the Buick "Deuce & a Quarters" were quite plentiful, and from my observations, if you couldn't get a Cadillac nor a Lincoln, you got a "Deuce & a Quarter". I loved those cars. Also remember the Wildcats as well.
    Frankly, the LaCrosse is woefully underpowered, and very weak as far as acceleration goes. Rented a Lucerne once, and it was very smooth and quiet, I have to say. However, I happen to agree with you that Buick does need to get back to their distinctive "look".
  • cynhcynh Member Posts: 1
    We are trying to decide between a 07 Lincoln MKX with the elite and ultimate package and 10 miles on it. They are downt to $37,000. We have a Lincoln dealer in town. Going to look at a Lexus RX350 2007 with 14,000 miles on it tomorrow. Was a car belonging to one of the people at the dealership. This SUV has the premium package. However the dealer is 2 hours away. They are asking $36,900. It is certified so if I have problems they supposedly take care of it and getting it to their dealership. Would appreciate any advice or opinions on which to buy.
  • floridasandfloridasand Member Posts: 9
    We recently ordered the Rear Bumper Protector ($55) from Lincoln. It was a very thin piece of vinyl with adhesive backing that did not go the width nor the length of the bumper. Although it came with a small applicator, we opted to have the Lincoln dealer put it on. The serviceman did try carefully to put it on, but there are still lots of bubbles in it. Lincoln is ordering another bumper protector to try again. We liked the idea of bumper protection from suitcase scratches, etc. on our White Chocolate MKX. We wouldn't have ordered it, however, had we known the flimsy quality and inferior size.
  • avlvavlv Member Posts: 26
    I went with the bumperbib sold at costco. Velcros on . http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11101047&whse=BC&topnav=&browse- =&lang=en-US#
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    It should be standard equipment, like on VW bumpers...a clear plastic film that if badly scratched, can be replaced. They are a bear to get on later, as getting out all the air bubbles is not at all easy.
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,286
    My 07 Passat Wagon 4Motion doesn't have that. I ended buying a very nice bumper protector for $90.
  • sneakypiesneakypie Member Posts: 3
    Just had my cargo cover installed. It is certainly different from the retractable cover I had in my previous Subaru Outbacks. Here goes... It is a sturdy vinyl that attaches with three elastic bands around each of the rear-seat-headrest posts. Then a clip on each side of the cover fastens the center portion to the rear-window channels. The back is fastened by two elastic loops to rotatable "T" fasteners which were installed in each interior side. Because of its location, it covers from the top of the rear seats to the bottom of the rear window--really the whole, high cargo area.

    To fold down either of the seats, one unfastens the appropriate headrest band(s) and presses the seat-release button (or folds the seat manually). As long as at least one outer-headrest band is fastened, the cover is sturdy enough to maintain its flat surface and continue in cargo-cover mode. To fold both seats, the side and rear fasteners can be unattached and the cargo cover will collapse with the seats. Naturally, the whole thing can be removed; it folds easily and, though more awkward to remove than my previous retractable covers, does not have to be left behind because it is flexible--not attached to a bar.

    The height of the cargo area it allows is its saving grace. I can't think of many times I will need to remove more than one or two headrest loops. It is just so different, I will need time to form an opinion...
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