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Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    When I was in high school in the early 90s, I knew two girls who both had Prelude Si with 4WS (how many of those have survived?). One car belonged to her mother, the other was a spoiled daughter of a doctor - but she was nice, and both cars seemed super cool at the time, sporty and high tech. D3 had nothing close.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I just got tired of the mind-bending drop in resale value as you drove your new GM onto the street for the first time.

    I'm glad the UAW is feeling the heat. Hope all of the southern state plants that are non-uaw STAY non-uaw. Another layer of cost that customers do not see value from.

    Regards,
    OW
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    When I was in high school in the early 90s, I knew two girls who both had Prelude Si with 4WS (how many of those have survived?). One car belonged to her mother, the other was a spoiled daughter of a doctor - but she was nice, and both cars seemed super cool at the time, sporty and high tech. D3 had nothing close.

    My friend's was a SI 4ws too. Definitely high tech cars. Ford and Chrysler finally came around with the Probe and Talon etc. Granted those were full of asian DNA.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    One was a 90 or 91, the other was the all new 92 which was even a degree cooler as it seemed very modern for the time. The town I lived in was fairly small with the only dealers within an hour being D3 and Toyota/Honda - in the bizarre relative scheme of things, Hondas had the status of BMWs there.

    I also knew a girl who had a Talon AWD, would have been a couple years old, and a guy who drove his mother's Probe all the time...the latter especially didn't seem as interesting. I remember the MSRP on that 91 Probe was something like 19K though, not cheap.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    the latter especially didn't seem as interesting. I remember the MSRP on that 91 Probe was something like 19K though, not cheap.

    No, the original Probe was not cheap, particularly a GT. The Probe really didn't get interesting until the '93 redesign. They held the price down, made it a lot better looking, and used Mazda's awesomely smooth 2.5 DOHC v6.

    The town I lived in was fairly small with the only dealers within an hour being D3 and Toyota/Honda - in the bizarre relative scheme of things, Hondas had the status of BMWs there.

    I don't think that's to surprising. IIRC, certain model Hondas were hard to get particularly back when the dealer network was more spread out. I remember when one of my uncles ordered an '87 CRX Si. He was on a waiting list, he ended up with silver because he didn't want wait for red.

    That CRX just blew me away. I was used to driving Escorts and Tempos. That CRX Si was like a Ferrari in comparison. I'd never driven a 4cyl that revved so fast and so smooth. Plus it was actually quick, it didn't just make a bunch of noise and vibration.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    The UAW is upping their Ford strike rhetoric. They want a raise. Ford needs to wake up and follow Caterpillar's successful moves. First, start expanding in Mexico and Latin America plants and second, prepare to lock 'em out when they strike and hire replacement workers. Caterpillar had no problems doing this. The work isn't that complicated and lots of people will move right in and replace the UAW strikers. I guess we'll see if Mulally has a set on him soon.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    Thank goodness my Neon had manual windows. One of the few parts that never failed was the manual windows and the power door locks.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    1994 Honda Prelude Si 4WS = TMV of $2,602

    1994 Ford Probe = TMV of $960

    1994 Talon = TMV of $1,294.

    I think the dollar and cents tell it all. Enough said as to which car is far superior.

    Not even within 100% BIG 3!
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,093
    As Chris Farley would say, "La-de-freakin-da".

    As if the resale value of three 17-year old cars would guide me one way or another.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    As if the resale value of three 17-year old cars would guide me one way or another.

    I like to point out that some people would be willing to pay more for a sticky accelerator from a crashed Toyota than most 17 year old domestic vehicles.

    While the foreign makes retain long term value thanks in part to long term reliabiilty.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,677
    To be fair, by 1994 a Honda Prelude was a much more substantial, upscale car than an Eagle Talon or Ford Probe. A Prelude was a car a well-off, middle-aged guy who was fed up with domestics bought for himself as a fun toy. The Probe or Talon is what he bought his spoiled daughter as a reward when she managed to graduate high school without getting pregnant, and as a sort of bribe for continuing into college.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    To be fair, by 1994 a Honda Prelude was a much more substantial, upscale car than an Eagle Talon or Ford Probe.

    True, A Probe GT was probably still cheaper than a base Prelude.

    A Prelude was a car a well-off, middle-aged guy who was fed up with domestics bought for himself as a fun toy. The Probe or Talon is what he bought his spoiled daughter as a reward when she managed to graduate high school without getting pregnant, and as a sort of bribe for continuing into college.

    LOL, that pretty much sums it up:)
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    berri: " The work isn't that complicated and lots of people will move right in and replace the UAW strikers"...exactly, which is why it is called unskilled labor, and can probably be taught in a few days or less...why do you think they make them in Mexico???

    others: my first 1985 Prelude was purchased for $12,000...20 months later, with 20,000 miles, I sold it for $11,200...even the dealer offered me $11,000 to trade it in...try THAT with any American car almost 2 years old...

    My second Prelude was a 1988 Di 4WS, probably the best car I ever owned...bought it for $18,000, with navy blue leather and navy exterior...the 4WS was great around corners and parallel parking...put 185,000 on it in 13 years, and gave it to my wife's brother who wrecked it shortly thereafter...we almost cried when we gave it up, it ran well, handled great and the 4WS, which was a $1200 option, I would buy it again if they offered it...I think some Infiniti M series has it but I am not sure...that same year, 1988, the Mazda 626 (??) also offered 4WS, but the Honda was a nicer car, and built like a tank...

    Maybe Honda has its problems now, but back in the 80s, when the UAW and GM/Ford were rapidly going downhill, Honda made the best cars IMHO...taking advantage of the American market was like taking candy from a sleeping baby...Big 3 made junk and there were Honda & Toyota, probably in their prime, offering far superior cars from my own experience...
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,346
    For me it's not so much a bias toward foreign vehicles as it is the simple fact that the Big 2.5 don't build very many cars I enjoy driving. I love my 1999 Wrangler TJ, but I think Jeep really dropped the ball with the JK. Right now the only domestic I'd consider buying is a Boss 302.
    I don't lust after many Asian vehicles either- the WRX STi is the about the only new Asian sled that strikes my fancy. My 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 has overcome its teething issues and makes an acceptable commuter sled, but I seriously doubt that I'll ever own another FWD car.
    As for bikes, what should I do? Buy a Harley or a Victory?
    Even though I find baggers and cruisers about as entertaining to ride as a stationary exercise bike?

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    edited August 2011
    Gotta love the bias.

    Friends had a 2000 Jetta, IIRC, and it had windows dropping down into the doors because of poor parts. Known, widely known problem.

    The check engine light stayed on so much at first, the selling dealer had the car for weeks and loaned them a Villager to drive instead of their new Jetta.

    I think we all know that VW is not one of the more reliable brands.

    So much for the perfection of the foreign cars.

    Who is claiming ANY brand is perfect? I've seen posters talk about all makes where THEIR CAR was nearly perfect. But I haven't seen anybody claiming all foreign makes are perfect. Perhaps I missed it?

    Of course every brand has problems. Certain foreign brands have just been better than the D3. It's pretty widely accepted that that is the case. But no perfection in any brand.

    Lutz very clearly described it in his book. The buyer loves the foreign car and wants to feel his car and his choice were perfect. When a windshield wiper breaks, he rationalizes it as someone just not tightening a bolt on the assembly line and the car company shouldn't be penalized with a negative report to CR for same. Who wants to admit they bought a less than perfect foreign brand car???

    IMHO Lutz was an overpaid idiot. He denounced hybrids, didn't he? Then GM suddenly "got religion" and came out with THREE different types of hybrids. Do you expect Lutz to admit his own failings in his book? Of COURSE foreign car owners hide problems that might mess up their image of perfection of their cars. Of COURSE US brand car buyers are always forthcoming with problems with their vehicles. That's the real story. Right.

    Of course the foreign car makers had $4000 extra per car due to the improper valuing of the YEN to spend on replacing parts in hidden recalls, warranty, out-of-warranty replacements for goodwille, etc., in the past.

    That's been a common UAW story. Do you have any credible links for that claim?

    Go to Honda Odyssey forum here for transmissions and see how folks like their $5000 repairs on their out-of-warranty transmissions. And there are other foreign car discussions where things go wrong and the owners aren't being given freebies now; they don't like it.

    There's that Honda transmission citation again! We all know that Honda had tranny issues. Since no brand is perfect. ;)

    It's been interesting to watch the dynamics.

    It IS interesting.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    The problem with the transplants is that they are getting too Americanized - focus on cost cutting, generic and safe designs and short term financials. This gives D3 an opportunity, but hopefully they don't go the usual short term focus resulting in cars that fall back long term. Otherwise, the Koreans are at the doorsteps improving their product and quality.

    As for Lutz, I also think he's somewhat overrated and perhaps a revisionist in his memoirs? Now Mullaly has stepped up addressing product, but will he have the guts to take on the other side - labor?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,093
    Our 1973 Nova coupe, six-cylinder with floor-mounted three-speed and Rally Wheels, had a sticker of $2,625.00 in Oct. '72. When traded in Aug. '74, we got $2,700 trade-in on a new Impala Sport Coupe. The Nova had 12K miles.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited August 2011
    had a sticker of $2,625.00 in Oct. '72. When traded in Aug. '74, we got $2,700 trade-in on a new Impala Sport Coupe. The Nova had 12K miles.

    I guess that's the beauty of 70's style inflation. Who'd want a six cylinder dog tracking nova, which I guess is the cheap version of 4 wheel steering;)
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,093
    It was a cute car. Light green metallic, Rally wheels with chrome center caps and trim rings, whitewalls, floor shift, dark green interior, and the Exterior Decor package which included bright side window moldings and body side molding. Yep, and the bottom of the sticker was $2,625.00. Of course, it had no power steering and manual drum brakes. I don't think it was so much a lot of inflation from Oct. '72 to Aug. '74 as in the late '70's, but the oil crunch between those two dates. Where our dealer would stock a stick-shift Nova once in a year or so, by Aug. '74 he had several in stock and they were considered more desirable as a used car. It was certainly a nicer car than the same year Maverick or Hornet, although we could debate whether it was nicer than the same year Duster.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,093
    While the foreign makes retain long term value thanks in part to long term reliabiilty.

    With that thinking, shouldn't a '72 Toyota Corona be worth more than a '72 Nova SS350? Both in excellent, 'stock' condition? Somehow, I doubt it.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I bought a new Carmine Red 1994 Cadillac DeVille in November 1993. Drove it for 8 years and 96K+ miles and traded it for a new 2002 Cadillac Seville STS. I'd say I was satisfied enough with Cadillac to follow it up with another purchase. Funny he brought up the Ford Probe, Eagle Talon, and Honda Prelude. None of those cars were remotely on my radar at the time and all strike me as being distinctly "chick cars."
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'd hope a well-off middle-aged guy could buy a Corvette. A Prelude seems to be more the car a young, freshly-minted Staples manager would drive.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Shoot, try FINDING a 1972 Toyota Corona, at least around here! They all collapsed into piles of iron oxide dust over 30 years ago! The only way a Corona could've survived a Northeast winter is by hibernating in an oil bath.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited August 2011
    I'd say I was satisfied enough with Cadillac to follow it up with another purchase. Funny he brought up the Ford Probe, Eagle Talon, and Honda Prelude. None of those cars were remotely on my radar at the time and all strike me as being distinctly "chick cars."

    Well if we're going to be "stereotyping". Back in the 90's I used to autocross. Talons, Probes, Mr2s, Miatas, GTIs, Neons and other "chick" cars were what you wanted (GM cars outside of a vette or camaro were rare). A Cadillac is what you'd see at the pharmacy drive thru picking up little blue pills;) Back then a Cadillac on an autocross course would have been hilarious to watch and probably hazardous to those watching.

    But those "chick" cars were for those who liked driving involvement. Neither my wife or I drove a car with an auto transmission until kids came along and our needs changed.

    A turbocharged AWD Talon TSI was a beast of a car, they were tough to beat on an autocross coarse and they'd eat up a Mustang or Camaro. Probe GT's were great handling FWD cars. They MR2 would kill the occasional Fiero that dared to show up and could run the whole season without falling apart, unlike a Fiero.

    I miss being part of SCCA Solo II. It was a blast to talk cars with a variety of people and actually watch drivers and cars compete with each other. Maybe someday I'll do it again. It would give me an excuse to buy another "chick" car.

    Actually, I'd probably get something like a Mustang, they aren't the best autocross cars, but they're a blast to try to keep under control on a tight autocross course.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    They all collapsed into piles of iron oxide dust over 30 years ago! The only way a Corona could've survived a Northeast winter is by hibernating in an oil bath.

    I don't know much about 70's asian cars. But I do know what you say about the Corona can also be said about a lot of domestics from the 70's. Fords rusted horribly back then. My dad's 73 Torino was completely rusted out by 78. Lots of bad cars in the 70's.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    My idea of the Nova was my Bro's '66, which he popped in a 327 out to 330 CI.

    375 horsies in a 2,600 lb. box was fun back in the day! Sold it for $3,000 in 1999.

    Otherwise, the 350 Nova as well as 396 were the gold standard of compact cars! :shades:

    Regards,
    OW
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    It would depend on trim level. The hot versions of the DSM cars and Probe were definitely not chick cars (although I had an eccentric old woman college professor around 1996 who had a mint early Probe turbo) - but the 4cyl slushbox models were definitely chick cars. I think the Probe that belonged to the mother of a high school friend of mine even had whitewall tires - silver with a burgundy interior and an auto, definite middle aged woman car. Prelude on the other hand, always seemed like something for either a middle aged secretary or a spoiled high school girl.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,093
    The first Preludes I remember seeing were usually driven by thin, well-dressed guys with lots of mousse in their hair. You know, the kind that make you want to just slap them.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    The problem with the transplants is that they are getting too Americanized - focus on cost cutting, generic and safe designs and short term financials.

    That might be because there's too many Americans out there that either can't tell or don't care about the differences between a Lexus ES and a Camry, or a VW GTI and Audi A3. If everyone opts for the cheaper plastics and build, then what is the incentive to make higher quality stuff?
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    Out here they bought lowline 3ers, today they lease base model 3ers and A4s.

    Actually, now that I think of it, I knew a guy in high school who had one of those first gen Preludes, the tiny ones that were more like a Civic coupe. It had belonged to his mother beforehand.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    but the 4cyl slushbox models were definitely chick cars.

    True, no different than a 4cyl Mustang, though the Probe had a much better powertrain than the rock shaker 2.3 in the Mustang. IIRC, the Probe used a 2.0L Mazda 4cyl (far more rewarding to drive than any domestically sourced 4 cylinder at the time).

    My wife had a '94 Probe SE for a while (basically same body cladding as a GT sans v6), though it had a 5 speed manual. It was a good car while she had it. Reasonably peppy and fun to drive and it was reasonably priced.

    Prelude on the other hand, always seemed like something for either a middle aged secretary or a spoiled high school girl.

    Even a base Prelude was a relatively expensive car. Not to many entry level young people could afford one.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    That might be because there's too many Americans out there that either can't tell or don't care about the differences between a Lexus ES and a Camry, or a VW GTI and Audi A3. If everyone opts for the cheaper plastics and build, then what is the incentive to make higher quality stuff?

    With the success of the "cheaper" Jetta, it seems apparent that size at a low price does best in this country. Which is why that has been the D3 model for quite a while. Myself, as a person who likes higher quality in a smaller car, has to go European or Japanese, as there has been pretty much nothing in that category from the U.S. Today the Cruze probably is the closest, although it's not that small.

    People who want high quality interiors, etc., end up buying expensive cars from other countries. But that's a niche, not mainstream.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    Seems all cars are expensive these days.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Honda too, in my experience treats their customers well and will extend warranties if there's ever an issue.

    Don't think that's necessarily true any more - check out the CRV A/C mess.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    "A Prelude seems to be more the car a young, freshly-minted Staples manager would drive."

    Or my 31 year old wife (ahem, back in 1985... :blush::blush: ...) uh, she ain't 31 no mo'
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Got the Expedition back from the dealer last night. Turns out the window actuator needed adjusted. No new parts were required and they didn't charge me.

    The low tire pressure warning light came on on my way to the dealer, and they even fixed the tire free of charge. So I'm content for now, well at least until the next thing breaks.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    even good service only goes so far, it's still a hassle to deal with car problems all the time. I avoid it like the plague.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,093
    That is indeed good service. I know that in surveys I've read about over the years, although people seem to love their imports, their dealers are almost always rated lower than domestic brands.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Best service I ever received was at BMW dealer.

    Warranty repairs were met with a loaner....one issue needed 2 visits. The air bag sensor would not stay reset after first visit...got a loner while they ordered the entire wiring harness from Germany. Had the loaner 10 days.

    Even got a loaner for an oil change for the day!

    GM couldn't afford that, I guess. Only got one loaner for the 10 visits to GMC over the years!

    Regards,
    OW
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited August 2011
    GM couldn't afford that, I guess. Only got one loaner for the 10 visits to GMC over the years!

    Seems a lot of dealers don't offer loaners (non premium anyway). The dealer I use doesn't (granted I didn't buy it there either). First time I dropped the car of there and asked for a loaner, they said they'd call Enterprise for me. They give rides though.

    I've dealt with several different dealers of various makes and IMO, they've all been about the same.

    Granted I've never owned a premium vehicle. I would expect more from a MB dealer than my Ford dealer.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    edited August 2011
    My Audi A3 was built and assembled in Germany, but when I went to the dealer for service under Audi's old (used to be included in the price) maintenance program, yes, they'd always give me a loaner even if it was just an oil change (which was $99.95 with the coupon after the 50K maintenance interval).

    That being said, I keep my money in America by getting my service done by an Audi dealer located in the USA! :blush: All my oil changes have been done in CA! :P So my money is staying in the USA despite a German built car.

    Afterall, I could ship it to Germany to have service performed by more skilled hands! :shades: ;)
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I dunno. My Cadillac dealer always provides me with a Cadillac loaner when I have my car in for service, even minor stuff like oil changes and state inspections. Got to drive a new CTS the last time. Had an SRX another time.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    My Cadillac dealer always provides me with a Cadillac loaner when I have my car in for service, even minor stuff like oil changes and state inspections.

    I consider Cadillac a premium brand and would expect better service. I haven't purchased a new vehicle since '01. My Expedition was one year old when I purchased it from a Chevy/Cadillac dealer. They gave me a coupon for one free loaner. I'd imagine if I bought a new Escalade instead of a lowly 1 year old Ford, I would be provided with a loaner when needed.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,677
    A few months ago, for whatever reason, the Nissan dealer gave my buddy with the Xterra an Altima as a loaner. I don't think it's something they'd normally do, but this time, the maintenance he was having done might have taken longer than they were expecting, or something, so they offered it to him.

    I remember years ago, my uncle had his '97 Silverado at the dealer for some repairs, and he was lucky to get them to send a shuttle to come pick him up! One time they took so long he ended up calling them up, cussing them out, and then having me take him down there to get his truck!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    Local Caddy dealer always has several Enterprise specials sitting on his back lot, I assume as loaners. All of the other highlines around here have loaner fleets - usual suspects (3er, C, ES/HS etc)
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,346
    Best service I ever received was at BMW dealer.

    When new software became available for the automatic in my X3, I made an appointment at my local dealer to have the upgrade installed. It turned out BMW NA was dragging their feet regarding putting the re-flash online, so my service adviser gave me a new X3 3.0si Sport for the weekend and overnighted the ECU to Woodcliff Lake to get it re-flashed.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,093
    Several times over the years I received loaners from Montrose Chevy in Kent, OH (now gone). Even for basic stuff. It got to where I'd tell them I didn't need one, as the dealer was only one mile from my house (as was almost always the case with any Chevy dealer back then!)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,093
    That being said, I keep my money in America by getting my service done by an Audi dealer located in the USA! All my oil changes have been done in CA! So my money is staying in the USA despite a German built car.

    Keep telling yourself that. They're all great folks over there. That's what I used to hear from all the guys up and down our street who fought 'em.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I hear you talking about the Altima all the time. Did you get a chance to drive it? If so, what did you think?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Either I have a great dealer or I'm privileged. No "Enterprise Specials" for me!
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