Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

imidazol97 · February 2006

>afloat from slave labor Chinese vehicles produced by the Big 3

Are you saying we should allow Chinese immigration (legal or illegal) like the Mexicans have been allowed in and they can work in the US (japanese) plants so make cars cheaper here?
Maybe that's the way to keep GM producing in US.:)Heh he.

dieselone · February 2006

I'll stop by the dealer and take a look. I assume you are saying the 07 is poorer in look or feel than the 06? Or are you saying the 07 is improved the way the 06 (and earlier) should have been done?

The new Tahoe's interior better in every way regarding the feel and look of dash materials and switch gear. The window switches have a more precise feel to them, where as, in my Suburban it's about impossible to lower the drivers window an inch, because you can't tell how much pressure is needed to avoid the auto down feature.

Now, I haven't looked at GMs latest vehicles up close lately other than the Impala and Tahoe. The Impala is also improved, but not nearly as much as the Tahoe (IMO). Quite frankly, GMs truck/Suv's interior design has been horrid for a long time, but maybe the Tahoe/Yukon will be a sign things to come.

Ohh, and I guess I should correct myself. I should have said '05 Tahoe vs the '07 since I don't think their is an '06, but you would get the same results comparing an '07 Tahoe to an '05 or '06 Suburban.

rockylee · February 2006

:surprise: Don't go there ! Anything could happen. :sick:

Rocky

rockylee · February 2006

Do you like any of the Honda/Acura's cars ?????

Rocky

andre1969 · February 2006

My only complaint about the '07 Tahoe is that there's still too much hard plastic. However, they've gotten really good at giving it a nice texture and color, so it's not readily apparent that a lot of it is hard to the touch, until you actually rap on it (or bang your knee on it). It's a world of improvement over the '06 model.

I think there is an '06 Tahoe, but its production was limited. That way, GM at least had some brand-new models to sell, instead of relying on left-over '05's to hold them over until the '07's came out. Chrysler did a similar thing with the Intrepid/Concorde/300M. They had an extra short run of 2004's, the last of which was built in September 2003, and that filled the gap until the 300/C came out around March of '04, and the Magnum a few months later.

lemko · February 2006

Not really. About the only car they make that I find remotely attractive is the Acura 3.5 RL and it is hamstrung by a ridiculous price and a puny V-6. For techno-toys, I could buy a Civic Hybrid or an Insight. I prefer either of them to the mega-dorky Prius.

daryll44 · February 2006

I know that they've brought "next year's" models out early for years. But it seems to me that bringing an '07 out in February is almost fradulent. Why not just sell an '09 now? Isn't there some law about this?

rockylee · February 2006

Well maybe the Rumor V-8 will make things more interesting in the RL. Especially if they add a stick.

Rocky

andre1969 · February 2006

I'm not positive, but I think that legally, the earliest you can bring out a new model year is January 1 of the calendar year before. So legally, an '07 could come out as early as January 1, 2006.

I agree though, it's really silly. I thought it was a bit much when I saw 2005 Chrysler 300's starting to show up in March of '04. Before that though, it seemed like April was usually the earliest a new car would come out. The 2000 Neon was rushed out in April of 1999, because Chrysler wanted to claim that they were building the first new car of the new millenium. Big whoop.

In the past the 1980 Citation and 1965 Mustang were also April deliveries. I believe the 1970 Maverick was, as well.

rorr · February 2006

"In the past the 1980 Citation and 1965 Mustang were also April deliveries."

Actually, the earliest Mustangs released (in April of '64) were (are) referred to as the "64-1/2" Mustangs.

So maybe these should be the 06-1/2 Tahoes??? :P

dieselone · February 2006

I just received my march issue Trailer Boats magazine. In it is a tow test of midsize SUVS. The 06 GMC Envoy 5.3L DOD, Jeep Commander 5.7, Ford Explorer 4.6L, Toyota 4runner 4.7L, and Nissan Pathfinder 4.0L v6. The test load was a 23' 5,920lb boat.

The 5.3L Envoy was the slowest in every category when compared to the other v8 models towing and nontowing. It was quicker than the Pathfinder towing, but nontowing is was slower in 0-60 and 40-60 times.

The Explorer actually could beat the hemi powered Commander 0-60 towing, but was slower than the Commander in every other category and the Commander pretty much ran away as number 1 in this comparison. On the 6% grade portion, the hemi walked away from everyone and the Envoy and Pathfinder struggled to pull the grade more than the others.

What was somewhat, but at the same time not that surprising was the 5.3 powered Envoy was the worst performing v8 at towing even when compared to the 4.7 in the Toyota 4runner . This is probably due more to the only vehicle in the test with a 4speed auto. Even with DOD, it couldn't match the nontowing fuel economy of the Toyota, but was better than the Ford & Commander.

bmk32 · February 2006

Just out of curiousity, if GM makes a profit on their Chinese operations, where do you think the profits should go? Should they go towards expanding their Chinese operations, R&D on future/better Chinese market products (to compete with offerings from Toyota, BMW, VW, Ford, DCX).

Orrrr......do you think that GM's profits from Chinese operations should come back to the U.S. to help with their domestic operations?

Does it matter what I think GM should do with their profits ? No, it doesn't. I'm a consumer, not a CEO.

GM is a global company with global R&D, they operate in four different regions around the world, North America, Europe, Latin America and the Asia Pacific. I'm quite sure their goal is to be successful and profitable in all four regions. They are competing with all of the global automakers who make the very same investment decisions every day.

I do hope they are successful.

captain2 · February 2006

As BMW, the 'Japanese Big 3', the Koreans and others continue to move large percentages of their actual production facilities into this country (because it is cheaper)and the traditional 'US' manufacturers move into Mexico, Canada, and the Orient (again, because it is cheaper) - the fact is there is no longer any such thing as an American car, a German Car, a Japanese car etc. etc.
The new Toyota Avalon, designed in Calif, built in Ohio by good ole American workers. The Chrysler 300 probably designed in Michigan but built in Canada. The same type of situations exist with the Sonata (US) vs. the Focus (Mexico), the Accord (US) vs. the Lacrosse (Canada).
Ignoring any issues I might have with the actual build quality of any of these cars - which one SHOULD I buy, if I also have some sort of overriding concern for the economic welfare of this country??? If your answer sounds a little 'foreign' - you'd be right!

bmk32 · February 2006

"What I have a problem with is the faux patriotism (sorry for using a French word on an American car thread) associated with the Big 2.5, when these companies are simply multinationals fighting for market share, as is everyone else."

"This apple pie/God/country/Chevrolet talk is just the byproduct of an ad campaign of old, it is not rooted in reality. And the portion of the discussion here that verges on racist makes me queasy to read, as I thought that these dinosaur attitudes died out some time ago."

I don't really see that "faux patriotism" thing, but you're entiled to your opinion. Ford is actively advertising their American roots, and the last time I checked, they were a multi-national company too ! I bet they don't advertise that way in Eurpoe though.

Toyota is celebrating their 15 millionth vehicle produced in North America in the last 20 years (check Toyota.com), but I bet they don't play that up in Japan.

rorr · February 2006

"Does it matter what I think GM should do with their profits ? No, it doesn't. I'm a consumer, not a CEO."

Nice sidestep. Personally, I think it would be wise to reinvest your profit where you MADE your profit so that you stay ahead of your competition in that market. Particularly when the amount of profit you make in that market would be of little REAL value propping up your company in another market. Otherwise, you risk losing ground in a brand new market and end up bleeding red ink there as well.

"GM is a global company with global R&D, they operate in four different regions around the world, North America, Europe, Latin America and the Asia Pacific."

Yes, just as Honda/Toyota/et al are all global companies with global R&D and operate (essentially) in the same markets.

And like GM keeping profit from their China market reinvested in China (R&D, design studios, new/expanded plants), wouldn't it make sense for Honda/Toyota/et al to reinvest THEIR profit they make from their N.A. operations back into the N.A. market? We can see this by the R&D centers which are in operation in the U.S., the design studios operated by the various 'foreign' nameplates in the U.S., the new/expanded plants the 'foreign' nameplates build in the U.S., and the growing list of American suppliers of parts for these 'foreign' nameplates. This ALL takes investment and this investment comes from profits the 'foreign' nameplates make in the U.S.

bmk32 · February 2006

Trying to understand your point as there is no new information or knowledge gained from your reply ? It's all the reality of the global automotive business....

andres3 · February 2006

Case in Point, the Dodge Neon from 1995 to 2005. How in the world do you build 10 consecutive years of miserably unreliable, poor build quality, and short term durability cars? My 1995 Dodge Neon is the reason I will never buy another American made/designed vehicle. Not only was it a complete lemon, it showed that they purposefully designed the vehicle to only last 3 years, or 36K miles.

My other problem is that I've found through research that 95% of Neon buyers ended up with lemons, and 5% ended up with cars of only slightly subpar reliability.

In 65K miles I had to tow the vehicle 4 times, and I mean had to. I had no choice, as going to the mechanic's shop the car would break down, or it simply wouldn't start.
Problems list:
1) head gaskets
2) Air Conditioning Compressor (and that burnt my timing belt)
3) Windshield cracking for no reason while parked with nothing hitting it.
4) gas tank/o ring leaks
5) alternator belt snapping
6) serpentine belt snapping
7) Auto tranny dying out at 60K miles.
8) windnoise, seals, moldings, glue problems.
9) rattles, squeaks, and generally low power to performance ratio along with poor gas mileage.
10) Yes, I maintained the car well, treated it like a baby, and got oil changes every 3K miles.

andres3 · February 2006

Oh, I forgot to mention:

11) Battery terminals and starter cable wires corroding, and dying out. This was still during warranty (car was relatively new), and I got several oil changes at Dodge because it was having warranty work done so often at Dodge Dealerships. Why was the battery and terminals replaced, only to have the starter cables and wires completely corrode out 2 years later.

bmk32 · February 2006

"My other problem is that I've found through research that 95% of Neon buyers ended up with lemons, and 5% ended up with cars of only slightly subpar reliability."

Where can we fnd your "research" ?

bmk32 · February 2006

You do realize that the company that makes the Neon is German owned ?

fintail · February 2006

Of course, the Neon predates the Daimler interest by many years

A relative of mine had a Neon "Expresso" coupe...the best thing that happened to it is when he got t-boned by a Caddy and got another car. A real nail.

marine2 · February 2006

And like GM keeping profit from their China market reinvested in China (R&D, design studios, new/expanded plants), wouldn't it make sense for Honda/Toyota/et al to reinvest THEIR profit they make from their N.A. operations back into the N.A. market? We can see this by the R&D centers which are in operation in the U.S., the design studios operated by the various 'foreign' nameplates in the U.S., the new/expanded plants the 'foreign' nameplates build in the U.S., and the growing list of American suppliers of parts for these 'foreign' nameplates. This ALL takes investment and this investment comes from profits the 'foreign' nameplates make in the U.S.
Replies to this message:

What if a company has no profit in a country? Which gives them no money for R/D there. Instead they are buried in red ink. Should they not try and improve their cars in that country by taking some profit money from a country they are making a profit in? Or should they just keep going with the old designs and drive trains? If they keep putting all their profits back in new plants and R/D, what about the share holders? They expect dividends on their investment.

captain2 · February 2006

My 1995 Dodge Neon is the reason I will never buy another American made/designed vehicle.
By this logic, then, you will also never buy a Corolla/Camry, Civic/Accord, or Sentra/Altima - to name a few? Where a car is made makes little difference, anymore - it ALL has to do with HOW it is made (meaning production and raw material standards) and, to some degree, the abilities and pride that the assemblers have in their work.
American workers can and do build good cars (Toyota has built millions of cars here) but maybe not for Chrysler, Ford or GM.

rorr · February 2006

"Trying to understand your point as there is no new information or knowledge gained from your reply ? It's all the reality of the global automotive business...."

The point is that the profit which Global Car Manufacturer 'A' makes in Market 'B' STAYS in Market 'B'.

Makes no difference whether it is profit GM makes in China, or Toyota makes in the U.S. And THAT is the reality of the global automotive business.

So, which is better for the U.S.? The profit GM makes and reinvests in China? Or the profit Toyota makes and reinvests in the U.S.?

You've stated you hope GM does well. So do I. But it's more along the lines of 'root for the home team' vs. actual impact to the U.S. economy.

andres3 · February 2006

Funny, that when that German company (that owns the company that makes Neons) combined with Chrysler, their reliability plummeted as well, instead of Chrysler's going up, Daimler's went down to the pits! Must be contagious.

andres3 · February 2006

Look at user reviews of the 95 Neon on MSN Autos, 95 Plymouth Neon or 95 Dodge Neon, Look at Edmunds user reviews too.

I asked a few aquaintances and friends that dealt with Neons how they were, all had problems. Look at the consistency of reported problems from Neon owners on these user reviews. They are consistent, and similar. Across the board, all of the cars should have been recalled in their entirety. I'd have to be refunded my entire purchase price in order to ever consider an american vehicle again. In my lifetime, I feel I got off cheap.... for about 15,000 dollars. (although probably went over 20K all together with repair bills).

marine2 · February 2006

Funny, that when that German company (that owns the company that makes Neons) combined with Chrysler, their reliability plummeted as well, instead of Chrysler's going up, Daimler's went down to the pits! Must be contagious.

Since Chrysler and Daimler merged, the quality of Chrysler cars went up and Daimler cars in Germany went down.

ubbermotor · February 2006

Interesting, my '96 saw 100,000 miles with no problems. I work with a guy that has a'98 he bought new, and didn't so much as change the oil the first 3 years and its still running strong with no problems. In fact over the years I must know some 30 poeple that have had Neons, and only one of them has anything bad to say about it. Here complaint is that its a stripper (Its a 2001 she bought new and its the only car shes ever owned). 95% lemons? I must know the entire other 5%.

imidazol97 · February 2006

The research data was obtained by the same people criticizing plastic in GM cars and design of buttons and switches in GM cars. :P

andres3 · February 2006

You are correct, after the 95 Neon debacle.... I drove a 95 Camry for awhile (parents loaner). I then decided to get as much the opposite of the Neon as I could, the 2003 Honda Accord LX V6 Coupe. I wanted to go from least reliable, to most reliable, from low quality and inefficient, to high quality and very efficient. Therefore, my two choices were another Toyota or a new Honda, the Honda redesign for 2003 sealed the deal. Yes, my Honda was built in the USA. I didn't like that fact at all. Turns out their are problems with an american assembled vehicle, even though they use supremely high quality parts and fit and finish stadards/specifications/tolerances. The car is excellent, and is light years ahead of any American rental I've driven since 2003 to date (Malibu, Cavalier, Hyndai Elantra, Kia, LeSabre). Although there were/are problems with letting Americans assemble high quality Japanese designed cars:
1) rattles from the beginning (very minor, but still annoying at times, sometimes fixable)
2) window molding rippling
3) Auto Tranny needed replacement at 42K miles, after warranty, but Honda was embarrassed, stepped up, and stood behind their product, ordered a new Auto transmission assembly overnight on Monday, had me back on the road Wednesday evening at no charge. They even paid for the rental. They seemed genuinely embarrassed that a major component had failed (only mechanical defect to date in 53K miles), and fixed the problem.

I remember asking the Dodge dealership why my car kept breaking down (to ask both why it was a lemon and/or why there repairs didn't catch things that were on the verge of breaking down miserably) Reply: "Parts just break down, cars just break down." That's when I made my final decision never to buy American "branded" cars ever again, not once, not ever.

Tell my friends and families in their Toyota's that car parts JUST break down!!!! They won't understand you, as between them all they might have a million mechanically problem free miles (4Runner, 2 Camry's, Tundra, T1000).

marine2 · February 2006

Has anyone seen the replacement for the Neon? I would say just in looks alone they are very different cars. With Chrysler's quality coming up so fast, I would say the trouble people had with the Neon, won't be repeated on the Caliber.

ubbermotor · February 2006

In all fairness the 1/2 designation was added to differintiate the early series engine models (200 I-6 and 260 V-8) from later models (250 I-6 and 289 V-8).

andres3 · February 2006

Famous last words.... about not repeating history. History is meant to repeat.

I was sold on the "NEW Dodge" the new and changed and improved reliability of Chrysler. The NEW factories, the new company Headquarters, the New Dodge marketing campaign. Back in 94 they sold me on the Neon based on this hype that they wouldn't have the reliability problems of their past, but proved to not be true whatsoever.
I don't see any signs of change as Consumer Reports gave the 2005 Neon 29 pts. out of 100.

marine2 · February 2006

You are correct, after the 95 Neon debacle.... I drove a 95 Camry for awhile (parents loaner). I then decided to get as much the opposite of the Neon as I could, the 2003 Honda Accord LX V6 Coupe

The two cars are in different classes. You had to pay thousands more for an accord over a Neon. Neon is more in the Civic class.

marine2 · February 2006

According to the 2006 CR, the 2004, last year rated on all cars, Neon was rated better than average. Before that, they were less than average.

master1 · February 2006

You are right -- but Mercedez-Benz apparently doesn't care. I guess poorly made cars are a Dodge tradition so they want to keep that! But, reviewers, and from Mercedez ownership, they actually have problems too. Not soo much the engine, transmission, but more like the computer going crazy, and doing silly things. Consumer Reports gave Mercedez very bad reliability ratings.

marine2 · February 2006

I'd like to see a reply to this one.

And like GM keeping profit from their China market reinvested in China (R&D, design studios, new/expanded plants), wouldn't it make sense for Honda/Toyota/et al to reinvest THEIR profit they make from their N.A. operations back into the N.A. market? We can see this by the R&D centers which are in operation in the U.S., the design studios operated by the various 'foreign' nameplates in the U.S., the new/expanded plants the 'foreign' nameplates build in the U.S., and the growing list of American suppliers of parts for these 'foreign' nameplates. This ALL takes investment and this investment comes from profits the 'foreign' nameplates make in the U.S.
Replies to this message:

What if a company has no profit in a country? Which gives them no money for R/D there. Instead they are buried in red ink. Should they not try and improve their cars in that country by taking some profit money from a country they are making a profit in? Or should they just keep going with the old designs and drive trains? If they keep putting all their profits back in new plants and R/D, what about the share holders? They expect dividends on their investment.

andres3 · February 2006

Thats true, The Civic compares more closely to the Neon.

My fiance got a 2005 Civic EX almost 13 months and 15,000 miles ago. Zero defects, zero issues, zero warranty dealer visits (except to fix a scratch on the paint that she couldn't see buying the car once it was already dark outside). She got one where the Vehicle Identification Number starts with a J (for made in Japan!) You can tell the difference in build quality to my 2003 Accord where the VIN starts with a 1 (USA

)

marine2 · February 2006

I think you should go back and read some of the posts I put up yesterday on complaints and service bulletins on Japanese and American cars in 2005 on the NHTS. I think you'll be quite surprised. Two of them were the Honda Civic and the Accord.

perna · February 2006

Although there were/are problems with letting Americans assemble high quality Japanese designed cars:

It's one thing to not buy American cars, but this statement is so far over the top I couldn't let it pass.

So in your world, nationality dictates craftsmanship? Do you think we (as Americans - since you live here, consider youself included) sit around in auto factories all day, hitting each other with car parts and throwing them on the vehicles at random? At your job, do you automatically think you're destined to do a poor job just because you're working in an American business?

I hope for your sake you're 13 years old (and fabricating stories of car ownership) to have such a narrow view of the world.

manegi · February 2006

Housing material - I agree, though one of the problems in importing this has been the difficulty in transporting it to inner Japan (narrow roads, small trucks). Big cities on the coast (e.g. Tokyo) do not have much large single unit housing which is the sweet spot for US builders.
I am afraid the real competitor to US in agricultural products is actually going to be China - I estimate around 80% of the stuff in my neighbourhood supermarket now comes from China (meat, vegetable, processed food).

I think it comes down to branding and competitive advantage. Citibank, Intel, McDonalds, Starbucks, Hollywood movies - All these are very succesful and resoundingly beat Japanese domestic competition. Look at iPod, it is (in Tokyo stores) just steamrolling Japanese look alikes even from companies like Sony.

But Autos is tough. Japan already has seven domestic car companies (probably the most in the world) in a market where demand is stagnant. Only the high end market is growing, and that is not where US brands play well (except, as I have noted before, large SUVs and maybe Cadillac recently).

marine2 · February 2006

Although there were/are problems with letting Americans assemble high quality Japanese designed cars:

It's one thing to not buy American cars, but this statement is so far over the top I couldn't let it pass.

So in your world, nationality dictates craftsmanship? Do you think we (as Americans - since you live here, consider youself included) sit around in auto factories all day, hitting each other with car parts and throwing them on the vehicles at random? At your job, do you automatically think you're destined to do a poor job just because you're working in an American business?

I hope for your sake you're 13 years old (and fabricating stories of car ownership) to have such a narrow view of the world

I agree perna.These high quality Japanese cars he likes to brag about are mostly made here. Buick is considered one of the most high quality, trouble free cars on the market.

I just love these people that like ripping this country and what we make apart. We are the only country to land a man on the moon, we make the finest airplanes in the world and the finest weapons. We built the most powerful rocket ever built. We are leaders in developing many electronics. We have developed some of finest medicines in the world. And some don't think we can make parts for automobiles and assemble them good enough?

marine2 · February 2006

But Autos is tough. Japan already has seven domestic car companies (probably the most in the world) in a market where demand is stagnant. Only the high end market is growing, and that is not where US brands play well (except, as I have noted before, large SUVs and maybe Cadillac recently).

I know land in Japan is very high. Are there any foreign automaker plants in Japan, like VW, etc?

kdhspyder · February 2006

Toyota has found that it's good marketing to bring out it's prime new models in spring..just before the stongest buying season March to August. They gain a jump on the main competitors who will 'wait' to bring out the new '07's in Sept as usual and miss this year's strongest season.

The '07 will be a little long in the tooth when it changes over to an '08 in August of 2007.

kdhspyder · February 2006

Tell my friends and families in their Toyota's that car parts JUST break down!!!! They won't understand you, as between them all they might have a million mechanically problem free miles (4Runner, 2 Camry's, Tundra, T1000).

4 Camry's from 1989 to 2005. The only failure was a faulty transmission on my '97 at 185,000 miles so I traded it in on a 2000 Camry ( for $2000 as-is!! ). If I fixed the tranny for $2700 I could have asked retail of $4100 for it. Each Camry went in excess of 150,000 mi with nothing except routine stuff like belts, oil, hoses, Never a brake replacement!, and some gaskets at 150K+.

kdhspyder · February 2006

Frankly the new Hornet that they just debuted in Europe looks very very sharp. It would be a big hit here in the Matrix / Fit / Scion / Mazda3 battle

bobst · February 2006

"And some don't think we can make parts for automobiles and assemble them good enough?"

Maybe the people who think that have their reasons.

For example, we bought a Ford Taurus in 1987 and it was by far the worst car we have ever owned. For that reason, we will never buy a Ford product again.

A friend of mine bought a Chrysler and then had to sue them because the car had many problems and Chrysler would not fix them.

On the other hand, our family has owned 8 Hondas and they have all been very good to excellent. Guess what kind of car we will buy next?

bmk32 · February 2006

"4 Camry's from 1989 to 2005. The only failure was a faulty transmission on my '97 at 185,000 miles so I traded it in on a 2000 Camry ( for $2000 as-is!! ). If I fixed the tranny for $2700 I could have asked retail of $4100 for it. Each Camry went in excess of 150,000 mi with nothing except routine stuff like belts, oil, hoses, Never a brake replacement!, and some gaskets at 150K+."

That is impressive performance and a good return on your investment.

For me, I've had 5 new GM's since 1998, never had a transmission failure, or any major mechanical failure of any kind, never been stranded, never had a tow. All 5 are still in my driveway, 2 are in excess of 120,000 miles with just routine maintenance (oil, hoses, serpentine belt, brakes, battery etc.)the kid's drive those now, another is at 50,000 trouble free miles but due for brakes soon (it's my daily commuter car), the wife's SUV-wheels are at 36,000 trouble free miles with just oil changes & tire rotations. The last one is an '05 model that I enjoy very much, at just 4,600 miles, I've only been back to the dealer for an oil change. The GM brand breakdown in my driveway is 3-Chevy's and 2-Pontiac's.

My next new vehicle purchase (when the kid's are out of College!) will be GM too.

bmk32 · February 2006

"For example, we bought a Ford Taurus in 1987 and it was by far the worst car we have ever owned. For that reason, we will never buy a Ford product again."

That is a shame. However, give Ford, GM or DCX another try, you might like what you see today, they've all come a long way from where they were in the 70's and 80's,and offer some really outstanding automobiles to choose from.

Remember, way back when (I'm going back to the 60's and early to mid-70's) the reliability of Japanese and German cars sold here in the U.S. was horrible, they were laughed at, and had a bad reputation. The Japanese in particular started turning things around by improving the quality of their product, but it was a long haul before things really took off for them. It's not unlike the struggle of the domestic's today, the product is a huge improvement, and fully competitive with Toyota & Honda, etc., Detroit just needs to get the word out and win back some of the loyalty they lost.

There will never be a day of 60% market share again for a single car company in the U.S., simply because the volume of major players went from 4 (or 3, depending on how ya remember it !) to what, 13 in the past 25 years ?

That's good for the consumer in the long run. But I'll NEVER be ashamed of rooting for the Home Team's !!

marine2 · February 2006

I would hope that anyone judging American cars, do it now after 2001 and up. America has made a lot of advancement in dependability in the last few years. No better example than two very trouble prone cars in the Ford Focus, Dodge Neon. Both have gone from bad to very good. Especially the Focus.

Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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