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Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    You can offer lower corporate taxes when you aren't a policeman enslaved to the military-industrial monster controlled by offshore entities, and don't offer endless pity me policies for the top few.

    I doubt many of those sell at all, it's fast - but just a little odd, and isn't ostentatious.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The price of $1.2 million does limit the buyers. However it will sell out the 29 units they plan to build with no problem. We have a lot worse problems than our military industrial complex. One of the few industries still providing good jobs to Americans.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    Selling those all might take time - the typical show off royalty supercar driver wants bling, a Veyron or Pagani etc.

    Those "jobs" are subsidized by the taxpayer (aka debt and deficit) and exist only because of our idiotic foreign policy. They most certainly are not legitimate free market jobs. Rand and Mises and the rest of the dreamers would not approve.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    You can offer lower corporate taxes when you aren't a policeman enslaved to the military-industrial monster controlled by offshore entities, and don't offer endless pity me policies for the top few.

    If there are lower taxes then I'm sure it's a bananna republic overrun with executive criminals. :P
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    Or at very least, a parasite moving ahead thanks to the effort and expense of someone else. These nations are no more legitimate than college kids with a parental free ride pretending to be independent adults.

    When one lacks the cojones to name the tax shelter, I guess it is moot ;)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think it is far better looking than the Butt ugly Veyron. I would still prefer a Porsche Carrera in my garage.

    image

    image
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    These nations are no more legitimate than college kids with a parental free ride pretending to be independent adults.

    Aren't we talking England here? I guess we all have different definitions of legitimacy. ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    edited February 2013
    How long did we subsidize their defense or otherwise come to their aid? It aint free. Oh well, the sun has set there - they'll take any money no matter how bloody. I suspect they also tax their "job creators" higher to compensate for any corporate tax benefits.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    edited February 2013
    Kind of different price points there, too - could buy a dozen Porsches for the price of the SuperElise.

    If I had 7 figures to blow - Pagani Huayra. Ugly as sin, but amazing engineering, amazing interior, Mercedes-AMG heart.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For 7 figures....I'd spend half to pave a track on private property and then buy 5 different $100,000 cars. Then invite friends to race 'em. :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    If I could afford to blow 7 figures on a toy, I'd already have my own track and underground bunker full of cars :shades:
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    How long did we subsidize their defense or otherwise come to their aid? It aint free. Oh well, the sun has set there - they'll take any money no matter how bloody.

    Now we're talking bloody? I thought this was about American cars. :P

    There certainly are no (real) British cars left.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    underground bunker full of cars

    Like this guy?

    http://youtu.be/3t_1f0SXBsI
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    These beloved tax havens seem to practice ethics on par with so much of our should-be-hanged FIRE industry leaders.

    No 100% British mass market car, but there are still some small volume hangers-on.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    Mine would be more like Leno's - I wouldn't be scared to let people in to look. Maybe even operate it as a museum with proceeds going to charity.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I know it sounds boring, but having a bunch of identical cars would be neat because then it's purely up to the driver.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    I'd have a fleet of 190D fintails for the track, have fun with that :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Would be a test of who can preserve momentum best. Actually kinda sounds like fun.

    Or you could run a 24 hour format. Probably would not have a single break down or anyone running out of diesel.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    That would be a pro - easy maintenance, and no huge speed related crashes, too.

    I'll say my old car is more fun to actually drive than the AMG - as it takes more work, planning, skill. Conserving momentum and making the most of the transmission isn't the same as simply aiming and flooring it.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I'll say my old car is more fun to actually drive than the AMG - as it takes more work, planning, skill. Conserving momentum and making the most of the transmission isn't the same as simply aiming and flooring it.

    My first (used) car was a '66 Beetle. Talk about sporting! I needed tons of work planning, skill, and especially conservation of momentum to drive that car!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    edited February 2013
    I merged onto an interstate on a long uphill on-ramp. I got to the speed limit by the end, anyway :shades:

    Something even the worst American cars haven't had to deal with in a long time.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Ooh I think I struck a nerve. Then again, everything except the engine is done in England. I question the fact that it's an American car, despite being built by an American company.

    This is the same sort of question that faces us regarding Chevys built in Canada and Fords built in Mexico. How (United States of) American are they?

    Anyway, that Venom GT is most definitely NOT "Made in the USA."
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,027
    I'm pleased to see and hear that some Chevys that have been built in Canada (and are even available for purchase by a retail buyer!) are moving to U.S. production--Camaro and Impala (at least some of Impala production).

    The Fusion will be made in the 'States soon, which is only a good thing (and for those who'll say Mexican assembly quality is better, CR had some issues with that in the March issue).
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Consider the gradations of virtue in buying American. There are Japanese models that are built in the U.S., so it may actually help the U.S. economy just as much or more to buy a Honda built in Indiana as it would to buy a Chrysler built in Italy. But then there is the question of where in the U.S. the car was built. I am much more supportive of right-to-work states than I am of union-monopolized states, so on that basis isn't it more pro-American to buy a Toyota built in Alabama than a General Motors vehicle from Michigan?"

    'Buy American' isn't as easy as it used to be. Then there's also the 'buy right-to-work state' urge (WSJ)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    Hmm, Chryslers built in Italy and sold in the US...lots of those come to mind!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I agree with you. Now that Michigan is RTW you may see some movement. The UAW stranglehold is broken or at least forced to do their job representing the workers. This site has the COO stats:

    http://www.nhtsa.gov/Laws+&+Regulations/Part+583+American+Automobile+Labeling+Ac- t+%28AALA%29+Reports

    Looks like for 2013 most of the Chrysler Mini Vans are Canadian made.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2013
    You agree with who? I just pasted a op-ed piece to generate some more conversation. Doesn't mean I agree with any of it. :P

    It did summarize most of the arguments. The sidebar about having kids doesn't have anything to do with buying an American car and I don't know why she went there.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I did not notice the quotes or see a byline. Just kind of thought you had a change of heart on Unions and RTW. I am always glad to see someone see the light. I did not read the article. Just thought you were looking for a mini van again. The Odyssey & Sienna are both 75% USA content. Too bad the Honda is SOOOOOO ugly. Last one was a decent looking van. Sienna is not much better looking. Not on my radar without diesel.

    The 2013 GC is 68% US content. Not sure about the 2014. Cannot find any data on new models. Engine from Italy and transmission from Germany. Has to be about a 3rd of the content.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    had a change of heart on Unions and RTW.

    There you go again. I can understand most of the pros and cons and have lived in both kinds of states and have even been a union member (briefly in TN, of all places). My "position" hasn't changed in many decades - I don't want to be forced to join one. But seeing how far the pendulum has swung toward corporate rights, I may just change my mind.

    My UAW built Nissan assembled in Ohio has been a gem.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I would be more like Harold LeMay:

    image
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I was a union member for most of my 46 years in the workforce. And I know what is good and not good about Unions. Of course the worst in my opinion are the Unions forced onto the tax payers.

    American workers are as good as anywhere else if properly motivated to do a good job. That is the job of management. That pendulum swing was a result of lousy management that slopped over onto the trades. Big corporations do what they have to do to compete. The fat cats found it was much easier to get rich contracting with foreign factories than building their own with all the regulations and crap inherent in our devolving society. Without government subsidies the D3 would be building far less vehicles using UAW labor. Even the Foreign autos built here get subsidies of one sort or another. In the end the consumer and tax payer get screwed.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2013
    VW's experience appears to say just the opposite. Heavy regulation, strong unions, government involvement (including partial state ownership), stagnant economy at home. And yet they are blowing the doors off at home and in many other countries, compared to most of the competition.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,027
    edited February 2013
    My bias is showing, but here's the only museum I'm a member of:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/sjb4photos/6988205662/in/set-72157629908925901

    The lettering are restored letters from the Newman and Altman dealership in town. This is a vestibule in the center of the building.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Looks like a fun place to visit...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,027
    I love it, but of course wish it was even larger. They have about 70 vehicles on display.

    I get a little frustrated when they bring other cars in, and other South Bend artifacts into display, but then I realize it's not guys like me they need to woo back in for repeat visits, but local people and others who aren't just Studey buffs like me.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    for those who'll say Mexican assembly quality is better

    I doubt many would claim that.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,027
    I was thinking dieselone had said that about a previous Fusion versus his wife's Taurus...but I could be wrong.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I said something like that. The 1st gen Fusion was rated among the best if not the best in the family sedan segment.

    I mentioned that my brother's 2010 Fusion sport has fit-n-finish quality that simply in another league compared to my wife's 2011 Taurus which was built in Chicago. But who knows, maybe the Fusion that came of the lot before or after his was horrible, and we got the odd Taurus that has odd gaps and poor panel alignment.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The new Fusion has a cramped footwell. I wasn't comfy in it. A shame because the hybrid model is a great value.

    My wife also had to duck to get in the back seat, but MANY big sedans have this issue nowadays.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,027
    edited February 2013
    I simply don't like Ford's styling. I can barely tell a Fusion from a Focus, except for size it seems. Not big on the fish mouth grille.

    In comparison, I think the Malibu is a beauty queen, and I think it looks less 'foreign' than the Fusion (but being from Kansas City instread of Mexico, I guess it is!). I think I'd be compelled to choose the '14 Impala though.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    The new Fusion has a cramped footwell. I wasn't comfy in it. A shame because the hybrid model is a great value.

    My wife also had to duck to get in the back seat, but MANY big sedans have this issue nowadays.


    For whatever reason, Ford has gotten into style over function. The Taurus is a prime example. It takes up nearly as much garage space as my Expedition, yet it feels cramped. It's awkward to get in and out of and it's just not very roomy considering how big the car is.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm the opposite, I love recent Fords. Fusion is the best looking sedan, Focus takes the C segment, and heck, Fiesta in the B segment.

    I liked the C-Max, too, but I took the family to the auto show and all 3 of them said "No" the back seat is so poor. I couldn't disagree. But it's a shame because the front is comfy, it looks good, it's efficient and a good value, too.

    And Ford sells a Panoramic moonroof as a stand-alone $1150 option. Brilliant. I wish others would follow suit!

    None of us liked the Dart. 200 is seven hundred years old and needs a refresh. Fiat 500 was too small. I didn't see a canvas roof on the 500L, but an Italian car made in Mexico? How soon before parts just start falling off by themselves?

    GM doesn't have a panoramic moonroof option in my price range.

    I'm not buying anything until I find exactly what I want.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I can barely tell a Fusion from a Focus, except for size it seems.

    I can say the same with the Cruze and Malibu. Exterior styling of the Malibu is boring and generic to me.

    The Impala has the potential to be a very nice car. My main beef with it is the base engine. My wife will be getting a new company car in a year or two. She can only get base cars, meaning a base engine. We'll see what happens, GM hasn't been on the list of cars her employer buys in several years.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,027
    edited February 2013
    Has a magazine even tested the Dart? I'm not aware of any, but then I haven't looked very hard at all. I can't think of a new car that's gotten less attention, for any reason, lately.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,027
    I haven't bought a car, ever, without a side molding. I like that the Malibu has the option of one...although I have a problem with the back seat myself. Does the Fusion, do you know?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,027
    Exterior styling of the Malibu is boring and generic to me.

    We can agree to disagree, but I think the rear of the Malibu is distinctive (and nothing remotely like the Cruze).
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    We can agree to disagree, but I think the rear of the Malibu is distinctive (and nothing remotely like the Cruze).

    Absolutely.

    Honestly, I can tell a Fusion from a Focus faster than a Malibu from a Cruze. But I still don't see many Fusions running around yet or new Malibus for that matter.

    Ironically, I find the front of the fusion to be quite a bit different than that of the Focus, but the rear of the Fusion and Focus appear similar. With the Cruze, I think from the front they are very similar. But in general every manufacture maintains a certain type of look through the lineup.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Dart didn't do anything for me. Free Dart! No thanks (can I sell it and keep the money?)

    That's a rare case of it looks worse in person.

    I wonder if the original Italian hatchback it's based on is any better?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There's nothing wrong with a family resemblance.

    Malibu should look like the Cruze's big brother, so when that owner has their 2nd child they move up.

    When they have their 3rd a Traverse should also look fairly familiar.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    I've been there. But, I was sick that day, and didn't stick around as long as I should. I need to go back, it's less than an hour from me.

    Cool thing about the place is that a lot of the cars are unrestored or driver quality, not trailer queens.
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