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Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    Excellent summation, as usual, andre.

    When the Caprice came out mid-year '65, it was called the "Caprice Custom Sedan" and was an option package on the Impala Sport Sedan, but no "Impala" nameplates or emblems were anywhere on the car.

    No one who was around at the time would conclude that Chevy stopped calling the entry-level full-size in '86, the Impala, because of bad associations with that name. It was simply, as most all manufacturers had done at that time, pushing down the top-line trim name of Caprice, as Bel Air had been pushed down when Impala was introduced in '58.
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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    I think Chevy also just decided to fall in line with everybody else, rather than using different names for what was essentially the same car. For instance, Plymouth called all their full-sized cars "Fury" starting in 1965, just with different trim levels of Fury I, Fury II, Fury III, Sport Fury, and Fury VIP. Ford finally dropped the Galaxie after 1974, going with just LTD. Although eventually they'd add a Crown Victoria trim level, then call them all LTD Crown Victoria starting in 1983, and eventually dropping the LTD prefix for 1992.

    Dodge played around with both Polara and Monaco for awhile, but for 1974 they called all their big cars "Monaco", and then "Royal Monaco" once they started calling the midsized "Monaco" in a lame attempt to make buyers think they were downsizing.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Agreed, man Andre you know your stuff!

    So, wasn't the Impala a car that sold like 700,000 or some ginormous figure for a few years? Was that before the downsizing or after, cause I could have swore it was around that 77' - 78' timeframe.

    But what do I know, I was only 5 years old at the time lol.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Heck, in the mid-60s all the "low-priced" full-size cars had their upscale versions:

    Chevrolet Caprice
    Ford LTD
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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    Thanks!

    There was a couple years, I believe, in the mid-1960's, when Chevy actually sold over 1 million Impalas per year! And that was JUST Impalas...didn't include the cheaper Biscayne or Bel Air. And I think they broke wagons out separately in those days, so I think that total was just Impala sedans, coupes, and convertibles.

    In 1977-78, the market was much more diverse, and the imports were bigger game players, but I think the full-sized Chevies still managed around 650-700K per year. By that time though, they grouped Caprice and Impala together. For 1979, I think it was down to around 500K or so, but in 1980 big cars in general took a beating, and I think the full-sized Chevies were down to around 250-300K.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I do wish, though, that the L.A. Times would stop calling the Impala a "muscle-car icon"---it was no such thing.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    So, Impala has not had a continuous run year after year for decades as has the Corvette and Suburban. As was pointed out by gagrice, Ford F150 has had a continuous run for decades and has remained true to its original design intent. Probably only a handful of vehicle brand/models remain true to their original design intent with only one in the world today that still has a strong resemblance in style to the original. The 911.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    To me the 1958 Impala was the rich kid's car. My buddy got one his Junior year in HS. I was driving my first car a 1947 Pontiac convertible with no top. Paid $60 for that car with my lawn mowing money. I admit I was envious of him. They looked good as long as you did not put that grotesque continental kit on them. The 1959 and 60 were not too bad looking. Last of the real classics in my opinion. By 1961 the hot rodders were buying the lighter Belair models with high performance 409 engines and 4 speed transmissions. They were very fast for that time period.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    IIRC, the '58 Impala started at $2693 for the hardtop coupe and $2841 for the convertible. However, when you consider how a'la carte cars were sold back then, the typical out the door price for a 'vert was around $4,000. Not exactly cheap.

    My grandparents sold a house in 1958, for about $5800!

    The '58 did have a ritzy, upscale look about it, IMO. Even the regular DelRay, Biscayne, and Bel Air models were pretty nice looking.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    There was a movie in the early 70's, American Grafitti, where the rich high school kid had a 58 Impala. Think it was colored white. Later in the movie, a tough guy comes into town with a bad black and fast Chevy. Was that a 56 or 57? He was Harrison Ford driving a Chevy.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    It was a 55:

    image
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    "He was Harrison Ford driving a Chevy"

    Yeah, I can't remember the color, wasn't it something like "a cross between pi$$ yellow and puke green";)
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    As was pointed out by gagrice, Ford F150 has had a continuous run for decades...

    According to wiki, the F-150 designation was introduced in 1975 to circumvent emissions regulations. It was designated a heavy duty half ton. The F-100 stuck around until 1983 when it was cancelled in favor of the Ranger which was introduced in 1983.

    Technically F as a model designation has been around since 1948 and the F-150 has only been offered since 1983.

    Sorry, the anal retentive attorney/engineer/mathematician in me just had to point out the difference. :)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited September 2013
    My friend's 58 Impala was a white 2 door hardtop. I can still see it the first day he drove into our HS parking lot. Surrounded by a bunch of kids. His folks owned a lot of property in our little town. Including the Piggly Wiggly grocery store. Houses around here were more expensive than Andre's area. We had just bought a very modest 3 br house for $19k. When it sold in 1962 it was still only worth $19K. The big housing bubble did not hit So CA until 1970s.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You are right. My 1956 Ford PU did not have any kind of markings to designate what model is was. Just a plain old PU truck. I traded it in on a new 1964 Toyota Land Cruiser. Dumbest car purchase of my life. That TLC gave me nothing but problems. The old Ford PU just ran and ran. All over the back country of So CA. My Lady Barber just sold a 1956 primo Ford PU to a buyer in Sweden. I think she got over $20k for it. Her's was a V8 mine was the I6. I also owned a 1981 Ford F100. I loved that little PU truck. My Ex got broadsided and it was totaled. That is when I bought the 1984 Ford Bronco. That was also a great vehicle with a 300 inline 6 and 4 speed manual. I put a lot of miles on that vehicle traveling between CA and Lake Havasu AZ.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    Yeah, I never really considered "FXXX", "CXX", "DXXX" etc to be real model names. Just like in the old days, cars usually came in two trim levels, "DeLuxe" and "Custom". I think Chevy called them "Custom" and "Master" for awhile.

    Sometimes I'll go to the parts store for my '85 Silverado, and they can't pull it up in their computer. That's when my memory gets jogged, and I'll tell them "C10".

    Dodge used to be D-100, D-200, etc. The little Mitsubishi-based compact was called a D-50, but I do remember my grandparents' '81 did have a Ram logo on it.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    I like '58 Chevys, too, generally.

    There are only two things I don't like about the Impala that year--the striped upholstery, and that bright-metal 'comb' on the rear quarters. I like the added length over a Bel Air, and the three taillights on each side, a tradition that lasted for decades.

    The first car of my grandparents' I can remember was a '58 Brookwood station wagon, light green and dark green two-tone. It was traded on a new '63 Bel Air wagon.
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  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    If you want to talk about a rich kid's car, my then-girlfriend got a brand-new 1982 Cadillac Seville for her high school graduation! Her's was a silver-maroon two-tone.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The move was set in 1962, so the Impala was 4 years-old. It could've been Pop's hand-me-down that he hot-rodded. Harrison Ford's character drove a 1955 Chevy. The rich kid's girlfriend had a 1958 Edsel Citation. Richard Dreyfus' character had a Citroen 2CV.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Heck, my parent's mortgage payment was $50. They bought their house in 1969 and paid it off in 1981. You won't see that again!
  • guido65guido65 Member Posts: 25
    I have changed my spending habits to try to purchase American products whenever I possibly can. Buying American products and services just makes sense. Keep money here at home to put an American to work, a worker that pays taxes, feeds his family, strengthens communities. I also know it is for my own good to try to purchase American goods and services. My financial future, financial stability depends on it. I believe more Americans are realizing this and understanding they too are in this economic chain.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    And the lusted after blonde drove a Ford Thunderbird. Suzanne.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    "American Graffiti" is a car enthusiasts' dream movie.

    Others:

    The Pharoahs drove around in a chopped 1949-51 Mercury.

    The girls who threw a water balloon at John Milner, but hit Mackenzie Phillips' character drove a 1960 Cadillac.

    The man whom Toad backed into while driving his friend's Impala was driving a 1959 Plymouth.

    The police car that got wrecked was a 1961 Ford.
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  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    edited September 2013
    Two of the three '55 Chevys used in "American Graffiti" were leftovers from the cult classic "Two Lane Blacktop"- that movie also featured a 1970 GTO Judge.
    The '55 that was rolled at the end was a salvage car; you can spot the single exhaust and the painted-not chrome-wheels...

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  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    "American Graffitti" - Great movie. Have it, will have to watch again soon.

    Think it also had some great music of the era depicted.

    Remember the guys got underneath the police car, tied up with chains(?) the differential to a utility pole.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Too bad we don't have good movies (plot, character, diction, melody, spectacle carefully blended) with American cars featured as we did years ago. Bullit, American Graffitti, Vanishing Point, Smokey and the Bear, French Connection, Seven-Ups, Thunderbird and Lightfoot, Crazy Larry and Dirty Mary, Godfather, etc.

    But how could we when there are no decent actors to cast such as Steve McQueen, Burt Reynolds, Gene Hackman and similar?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    edited September 2013
    Smokey and the Bear, but no Smokey and the Bandit? :)

    Not to mention This classic filled with interesting American cars - also plot, diction, spectacle, etc.

    This one also has long scenes with a 55 Chevy 2 door post - maybe a leftover from the previously mentioned movies?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    edited September 2013
    Smokey and the Bear, but no Smokey and the Bandit?

    When I was a kid, my Dad took me to the movies one day. I wanted to see whatever Herbie the Love Bug movie was out, but Dad wanted to see "Smokey and the Bandit". I was only 7 at the time, didn't know what a Smokey was, only knew Bandit as the dog on Jonny Quest. I thought it was about Smokey the Bear!

    I think I threw a little bit of a protest but Dad said no, trust me, you're gonna love it! And, I did. I still remember that we walked in on maybe the last 5-10 minutes of it, the final police chase just before they got to the Georgia Fairgrounds, where police cars started coming out of the woodwork. But, we sat through the end, and waited for it to come on again, and I loved it!

    IIRC, I managed to see it two more times in the theater. I think I got Mom to take me, and Granddad.

    For some reason, I had a premonition that first link you posted was going to be "It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World"! :p I caught an episode of Newhart last night, and George Utley the handyman said that when he's depressed, he likes to rent that movie. But then when he thinks about all the actors in it who have died since then, he gets depressed again...
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    But how could we when there are no decent actors to cast such as Steve McQueen, Burt Reynolds, Gene Hackman and similar?

    Don't forget Jackie Gleason. He was the do anything actor.

    But then when he thinks about all the actors in it who have died since then, he gets depressed again...

    I haven't watched Mad Mad World in 20+ years. I still see Phil Silvers in that stream. Probably the finest collection of great comedians ever assembled for anything.

    It seems everything about America today is phony. Don't need anyone but a graphics artist to make a movie. Digitize the actors and all the special effects.

    What American car today is as distinctive as a 58 Chevy or 59 Caddy Convertible? Unless it is a Retro Mustang, Camaro or Charger. When I was in HS through 1961 I could tell you every car and model on the road. Ask a HS kid today and they may be able to ID their parents cars. They all look alike more or less.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited September 2013
    "It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World" is both a car spotter and celebrity spotter's dream! There were a lot of then-famous folks who had cameos in that movie. I recall the Three Stooges had a cameo as firemen at the airport when Buddy Hackett, Mickey Rooney, and Jim Backus were about to have a plane crash.

    I doubt there could be a successful remake of "It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World" with today's cars and celebrities as most are tiresome and dull.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    But how could we when there are no decent actors to cast such as Steve McQueen, Burt Reynolds, Gene Hackman and similar?

    What about Clooney, DiCaprio, Statham, Craig? All great actors IMHO.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Movie expectations today prohibit the making of great "actor based" movies anymore.

    In movies like Vanishing Point, etc., there was a reality associated with the stunts... In other words, what you saw on the screen was actually possible, no CGI make believe. Nowadays, that wouldn't sell. Viewers want to see someone jump the Grand Canyon in a Tercel, an obviously impossible feat... Yet, it sells. Just look at how popular the super hero CGI movies are.

    I'm afraid the day of the actors carrying the movie by great acting and a great plot (think Bogart, Flynn, Gable, Mitchum, and the like) are long gone.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I'm afraid the day of the actors carrying the movie by great acting and a great plot (think Bogart, Flynn, Gable, Mitchum, and the like) are long gone.

    I'll respectfully disagree - at least when it comes to award winning movies. CGI has only come into use in the past 15 years. In that same time, the Oscar winning best pictures have been largely devoid of major use of CGI except for The Lord of The Rings, Gladiator and Titanic. And even in those cases, they are considered excellent films due to the strength of the acting.

    Good films are still about great acting, great directing and great screenplays.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    edited September 2013
    I think one key with some movies like Vanishing Point, Duel, etc, is that they give you an "everyman" sort of character that you can identify with. Not some big super-hero. A lot of those movies also had a knack for sucking you into them, where you felt like you were right there in the car with the characters.

    Oh, a few other road movies from the 1970's that I think were kinda cool..."Moving Violation" (not the 80's one, although that was was cool in its own right), "Slither", and "Race the Devil".

    I wonder if the stunts in "Moving Violation" might have inspired "Smokey and the Bandit" a bit. There was one scene where a police car goes under a tractor trailer and loses its roof. And even a scene where a '74 or '75 full-sized Olds police car crashes, and you can see the airbag deploy. In "Smokey and the Bandit", there was one scene where they ran an airbag-equipped '74 Olds into a '77 LeMans, but the airbag didn't deploy. I've heard that the car was used some years later in a crash test video, and the airbag deployed as it should have.

    "Race the Devil", with Peter Fonda, was kinda cool because they were doing a lot of stunts using a Vogue motorhome and some trucks, which I'm sure has to be a lot harder than with cars. And "Slither" with James Caan, Petre Boyle, and Sally Kellerman, used a '72 Impala toting an Airstream about, and two evil looking motorhomes that were built by a company called RecTrans.

    I do think some pretty cool newer movies have come out, but I just don't find them as endearing. For instance, I kinda liked that "Joy Ride", with Paul Walker and "Helen Hunt Junior", and the '71 Newport. But I can't watch it over and over again like I can "Smokey and the Bandit". What in the hell is the world comin' ta? :P
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited September 2013
    Bought a 2014 Ram 1500 Laramie crewcab hemi/8speed today. Built in the good ole USA. Engine from mexico, trans from germany.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Congrats! Didn't even know you were tire-kicking.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    In movies like Vanishing Point, etc., there was a reality associated with the stunts... In other words, what you saw on the screen was actually possible, no CGI make believe. Nowadays, that wouldn't sell. Viewers want to see someone jump the Grand Canyon in a Tercel, an obviously impossible feat... Yet, it sells. Just look at how popular the super hero CGI movies are.

    I agree except that I would draw a distinction between reality-based movies and the science fiction/superhero genre. I think CGI don't improve movies like "Vanishing Point" or "Mad Max"- practical effects are the way to go. However, first-rate CGI like that seen in the recent Marvel films or ST Into Darkness are a critical factor in their success(assuming of course, that the plot and characterizations are spot-on as well).

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    edited September 2013
    That's a good Smokey memory. I remember watching it with my dad, who loved the humor between Buford and Junior.

    Yeah, you know I am a IAMMMMW fan. Good point about the actors - now it's been 50 years, not many left from it.

    And Moving Violations, it's now kind of a cult classic, pretty funny and underrated. One of my favorites from when I was a kid, I have it on DVD now.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    It's almost like the producers were trying to show off the excellent American car scene of the early 60s as much as they were the acting talent. It must have been Mopar sponsored, but even then, the car spotting is fantastic. It also features the only red and white 60 Ford Country Sedan I've ever seen aside from the one my dad had.

    And indeed unrepeatable due to the cars and people.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Could not wait for the Ram 1500 Eco Diesel to arrive eh? The new Ram diesel has more torque for pulling than the Hemi V8 gas engine. At least 30% better mileage.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I remember watching it with my dad, who loved the humor between Buford and Junior.

    Gleason was at his best in the SAB series of movies.

    Yeah, you know I am a IAMMMMW fan. Good point about the actors - now it's been 50 years, not many left from it.

    Got me to thinking about buying the DVD. It seems they cut close to 30 minutes from the original theater version for the DVD. The original Mad World was 192 Minutes. The DVD version is 161 minutes. There is a cult following that claim the VHS version is not as cut. Still not full length. The claim is MGM is not willing to spend the money to transfer the original onto DVD. Another supposed authority says there are not any usable 70MM originals left. Only 186 minute 35MM copies. Hope they didn't leave out any of my favorite scenes. It would be like buying a new vehicle and finding your street is not on the $2000 NAV.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    "Could not wait for the Ram 1500 Eco Diesel to arrive eh? The new Ram diesel has more torque for pulling than the Hemi V8 gas engine. At least 30% better mileage. "

    Nope. I thought about waiting. But I don't know if the diesel would really be worth the extra cost when you factor in $4k plus for the engine, and 50 cents a gallon more for the diesel.

    Plus the Hemi sounds nice;) I'll bet the Hemi has more towing power overall due to torque output being close (diesel will have about 13 ft-lbs of torque more) while the hemi has about 150 more HP. It will have to rev more and no doubt will probably get 1/2 the mileage of the diesel when towing.

    I had a bunch of driving to do today. Put about 130 miles on the Ram today. The Expedition would have yielded about 14mpg with the type of driving I did. The Ram showed 17.1 avg. at the end of the day and it now has 141 miles on it. So I'm somewhat pleased with the mileage thus far.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think that 8 speed makes a lot of difference in mileage. I am sure you will have plenty of power. Your boat is not close to the 10k lb capacity of that truck.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    No, it shouldn't break a sweat towing the boat. The 8 speed is great.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    How is the ride and handling on the Ram?
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    "How is the ride and handling on the Ram?"

    I like how it rides and drives. It's not luxury car smooth, but it feels tight and well controlled.

    I looked at the Silverados but they left me cold. Didn't even bother to drive them. Plus every one on the dealer lot had 3.08 gears.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If I bought a full sized PU truck today it would be the Ram. I am anxious to see how they do with the new diesel coming the end of the year. That could get Ford and GM off their duff. Ford keeps thinking they can make a gasser competitive with diesel. Not from what I read.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I agree with you. Example... The tiger created by CGI in "The Life of Pi" really made an impact, combined with great acting and a great story.
  • ohenryxohenryx Member Posts: 285
    I was out truck shopping with a friend this afternoon, hit Chevy, Ford, Toyota, and Dodge dealers. He actually drove (I rode) in Chevy, Ford, and Dodge. Toyota dealership was deplorable, we never actually got to the inside of a truck.

    My friend was driving, I was just riding. The Ford 5.0 V8 felt very comparable to the first Dodge we drove, with a 6 speed. Then my friend test drove an upscale Dodge, with the 8 speed, and that made an appreciable difference. The engine was the same (5.7 liter Hemi), and the body size was the same (quad cab, or extended cab if you're not up on "Dodge speak"). The rear end ratio might have been different, which would have helped, but it seemed like it was the transmission.

    At any rate, the Ford was a LOT cheaper, so he's leaning in that direction.
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