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Comments
If your CTS is similar to 11 Lacrosse seats, you will start to feel every bit of hardware under the padding in time. A Fusion I test drove a couple of years back also had bad seats. Dealer Demo with only about 5K on it and those seats in my opinion were shot. At 28K, MKS, padding is many times better than Lacrosse at 12K, which is why I said I might replace it when it gets bad. Pro reviewers were spot on about the comfort level as luxury moved to cooled seats. I suspect the problem is finding a medium for use as the padding that does not block the air flow. Maybe GM and Chrysler will do better if they re-invent again.
With available time, and not driving but a little, I've yet to take in with brake issue. Nearing time for oil change, and getting 1 to 2 PSI leak fixed is a must. A darned nuisance since it changes the handling.
And now besides the brakes, a handling issue is popping. As in something loose in steering/suspension. It showed up in a definable way when braking, something I'd already been tuned in to because of that issue. Sometimes, when first applying brake, it does a little zig to the left. (could be braking) But as that continued, on several occasions I felt a simultaneous bump at the steering wheel, as in something being loose. I suspect it is coming from R Front. And I recall hearing a bit of a strange sound like a bearing whine the other day. It stopped by time I turned radio down.
The movements that occur with road tiny bumps and steering make me think Ford designed their suspension system to burn off the kinetic energy generated via lateral movements of the vehicle. Not inspiring to say at minimum but likely dangerous if such action is happening when contacting slippery surfaces. That motion could break traction or would be the equivalent of applying brakes when you are freely sliding on ice or snow.
I'm hoping it is just a case of something coming loose.
And then sometimes when exiting the vehicle, the steering wheel does not move up?
And the other day, the right rear door did not unlock when parked. Since passenger may have been pulling handle before parked I will have to watch and see on that one.
The mood improves by measures once you start driving, though. The brakes are strong, the structure is stiff, and response to steering input is immediate. The suspension keeps body motions and head toss to a minimum even during spirited driving, and the impression is one of solidity, willingness, and capability. Overall grip levels feel high, too. The car is one of the best to drive in the class, perhaps only trailing the latest Honda Accord in overall goodness
How is that worse than the old model? Add in the MKZ's electronic suspension and it should be even better.
The new MKZ outclasses the new ES350 in all categories and that's the target here, not BMW or MB.
Relative to the current one it should be a big step forward and I would expect the same improvement across the board as the new vehicles roll out.
You don't need a dedicated RWD platform to be a successful luxury brand.
Rear air shocks: I assume you mean load levelers and I agree.
Sound of a V8: I like quiet.
Backup camera: So far it has surpassed the Lacrosse by having good night vision and not having become blocked by exhaust condensation on a cool morning. But when functional, the GM seemed to have a bit wider angle and when activated the side mirrors moved down so you also saw the ground the tires were actually moving on. Also the distance stripes on screen moved with the steering wheel to show where you would actually be backing.
As to the rest, trunk pull down adequate. Superior sound yes. Eco, don't have. Nav, nice. Would love to try the Verizon millions of points of real time monitoring system and see it tied to this system. Self park, don't have. Paddle shift, yet to find the point, especially since you have to reach for the stick to change it. Adaptive Cruise, don't have, but obviously part of the intent, when you hold the cruise button for coast, less speed, it will force a downshift aiding in the speed adjustment.
More comfortable seats, AMEN. Maybe not the most comfortable seats ever, but since high end meant cooled seats, these are far more comfortable than other recent GM or Chrysler.
Thanks for the points.
Any ideas as to what might be going on?
Overall I'm really pleased with my purchase. Will I buy another Lincoln? Time will tell.
Recently, we had to drive 120 miles round trip for 7 consecutive days. We were on I-5 in WA going down to Clackamas, OR. It was 75 mph on I-5 and 70 in 405 and we averaged 24+ mpg.
We bought this car because we need an AWD to climb our snow laden road and driveway & after sitting in the '13 Taurus SHO, the CPO Lincoln was chosen due to the more elegent interior.
Compared to other Lincolns we've owned, I miss the Cornering lights, under hood light, Air shocks, AutoTrunk pull down, but the AWD & IRS make up for it.
So far, 13,500 miles and we are very satisfied with it.
I totally agree with you about the Lincoln having a more elegant interior than the Taurus, and don't understand when the car critics pan the MKS saying it's the same and the Taurus is $10K cheaper. My retort is that the Taurus is about the same price as the MKS once you option it similarly, but lacks the class, sophistication, and other amenities that come with owning a Lincoln. I'm not saying the Taurus is bad, but rather that I think it's ridiculous to say they're the same.
I'm not sure what cornering lights are...I have noticed that my MKS lights shift when turning. I had a Lincoln rental a few years back that would use hydraulics to close the trunk once you manually pulled it down to a certain point so that it wouldn't slam. I didn't really have much use for that...a button that would have automatically closed the trunk - I would have missed that, because it's really high. There's no place on the exterior to grab it firmly, and I'm scared I'm going to slam my wrist in there each time I use the loop inside to pull it down. Yes, auto-trunk-close would be a very nice feature indeed.
These are minor annoyances, some of which I expect I'll get used to over time, and some will grate on my nerves more each day.
Filing under "burying head in sand"...I hope this waterfall grille is here to stay. Not because I love it (I don't), but because I envy the timeless styling of Mercedes and BMW, masking the ability to gauge exactly how old your car is. Geez, for any Lincoln made in the last 5 years, I can tell you exactly what year it is just by catching a glimpse out of the corner of my eye.
My MKS does not cool as quickly. It has bigger interior and maybe more air leaks.
When the headlights are on & the turn signal is used, the cornering lights illuminate just to the edge of the turn so one can miss the ditch & hit the driveway in the fog.
The lights are mounted in the lower leading edge of the front fenders and can be quite bright when changing to brighter bulbs.
Regarding the voice commands, mine has never missed a word. Check out the manual. If the 2013s are like mine, you can "train" it to recognize your voice better. That might help - especially if you speak Texan. That is NOT an insult! One of my co-workers is from Lubbock and I love listening to her!
As for the A/C, I think you will find it more than sufficient when the weather gets really warm. The cooled seats are great too. I never use the automatic setting because I do not want the fan to come on full blast - but that is just me.
I know you did not get the ecoboost, but for those who did and would like even more power, there are tuners who prepare custom tunes that provide more turbo boost, advanced ignition timing and transmission recalibration. I recently purchased a tune from Livernois Motorsports and OMG! The difference in performance is incredible, the transmission shifts better and the engine is still quiet and refined. Fuel economy is even improved if I keep my foot out of it.
Keep enjoying your car, Tinker!
They made a feeble attempt at improving the sealing on the 2013, or at least since the 2010. One of the door seals, front doors, is extended so it is supposed to seal the gap between the door and front fender. Nothing to stop the issue on the bottom of door or other areas. Also, they added a rubber strip to contact the bottom edge of the hood each side. As stated elsewhere, the seals used seem very inadequate.
Looking under the hood, I saw the UAW pride at work. That seal mentioned was not in one of the retaining holes. And near the front a push-pin that appears to be used for retaining headlight assembly, it was not pushed. That center piece of push-pin sticking straight up.
And to that new hood with that extended center piece curved downward to meet bumper, say higher insurance. If you had the misfortune of a minor bump on the front taking out grill, now it is the grill and a new hood plus colateral damage. I sat in it long enough to find the storage hole with door front of center console. Another stupid design. The shape and design is that you would intuitively push near the lower edge center to open. And do the same to close. But that is apparently a release button, unlike the ones in the overhead that automatically toggle between unlock/open and lock/closed.
Part of quality would be attention to detail, in all areas. That false pride needs to be removed if it says "Lincoln".
I need to do a bit of background work myself since VIN does not pop the TSB that took place three days prior to my build or any recall. Appearance of rear rotors wear pattern has been the same as front prior to performing TSB for the front. That is the pads have/had not been making contact with the outer 1/4" of the rotor. If you understand the principles of torque, braking in this example, the outer portion would yield the most torque/braking.
Results of inspection showed 3mm pad left rear, 6+mm right rear. The front pads, new 5000 miles ago because of TSB, are also 6+mm. I'd say that obviously shows some brake issue to the rear. But not necessarily connected to my complaint of "reapplying brake within a couple of seconds of an apply results in less brake with hard pedal."
And of course I asked if they did a full bleed after replacing the front calipers per TSB. Naturally the answer was yes. I don't know what they did when it was in back, but the initial issue may be cured. Rolling out of the lot, first brake apply I thought I would bite the steering wheel. I don't recall it ever having that much braking. Will have to follow up on uneven pad wear.
But I'm (___) about something else. Having stopped elsewhere on the way home, as I returned to my vehicle the low in the sky sun revealed fine scratch marks. The only carwash this vehicle has ever been through is a touchless and after a couple of tries I found that does not get clean. So I hand wash starting with a pressure washer to remove any grit that might be stuck. As part of their service, they hand wash. They are obviously sloppy because I washed just one week ago. It had already accumulated pollen on the exterior. The interior clearly demonstrates their bad technique. The glass was wiped with a cloth having dirty water leaving muddy water spots. That is, they used the same materials on my vehicle that they washed prior vehicles that were so dirty they looked like they traveled the back roads of Georgia. And that plastic door keypad? Those of you who wear eyeglasses and don't opt for the hardened plastic, you will best understand what it now looks like. For those that don't, you never ever use anything but proper cleaning solution and lens paper. Even a Kleenix tissue will scratch plastic.
The quality of this sound system is good enough to appreciate very high bit rate or lossless music. Using lossless CODEC approximately cuts in half the storage space needed by a CDA.
How happy could you be if you had to after market re-tune the vehicle? I would have done some research on the vehicle before buying to determine if the car's road manners where on par with my performance expectations.
I only have a mild interest in warranties but I am fully aware that if my modification causes a mechanical problem, it is MY problem. That is a chance I am willing to take after doing considerable research, visiting with the tuner and chatting with hundreds of SHO owners who have done tuning much more aggressive than I have. Many of those SHO owners put their cars on the dragstrip on a regular basis and abuse them far beyond what I ever would.
As for satisfaction prior to tuning, the stock ecoboost MKS vastly exceeded my expectations. A 4400 pound car with AWD that would go from 0-60 in around 5 seconds and still deliver high 20s MPG on the highway was superior to what I expected. An aftermarket tune, admittedly with some risk, has exceeded my expectations even further. If I had not been extremely satisfied with the car in stock condition, I would have replaced the car - not spent money on it for a custom tune.
Thanks for your interest.
It's an oxymoron to expect a luxury car owner to ever have to disconnect anything on their car themselves. Such acts are reserved for '83 Plymouth Horizon owners et. al.
Ford needs to ban such recommendations so they are not repeated in forums lime this. Hope I'm not alone in this opinion.
And I stopped by dealer to address the terrible clean up. The man I needed to talk to on some issues was not present. I returned that high priced Snap-on tool left in my vehicle. Since my car was thoroughly cleaned by self only a week earlier, it is rather discouraging that they used probably a cloth wet with dirty water to clean interior. One of the very tell tale places is the rear window. That brown water collected near the defroster strips and left a parallel row of dark spots at each wire. They then also topped off my low coolant with "water" from a dirty jug. Not real low, but at the low cold line when hot.
Next week I will have to go back to see what they say about other issues, especially the long near straight scratches in top coat on hood and trunk and probably everywhere else. The ones on the hood look like something was worked from the side of the vehicle that had grit on it and either someone with very long arms to move it in such long straight lines or a pole attached.
95 T Bird; 94 Lincoln Town Car; 82 Town Car; 80 Town Car; 73 Ford Squire; 67 Ford Country Sedan; 66 Mustang GT (still own it) 60 Corvair; 57 Plymouth; 53 Chev Bel Air & 39 Chev Sedan.
Some of the best race car drivers were mechanics first.
Did I mention my V8 Sea Ray runabout?
It ain't just Ford, BTW, my BIL is moronic enough to own a new Malibu that frequently goes into limp mode on trips. His suggestion from Government Motors is to "reboot the car" the same way. Sure enough, it works. Beats calling a tow truck once a month.
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Is there a spec that tells what Bluetooth class and version is used in these vehicles?
After the service, I now have to be a bit more cautious and readjust my driving when stopped in traffic. Letting up on the brake, the vehicle starts rolling. I don't want to bump anyone, but also appears to demonstrate brake drag was present. And so far it appears I've gained about 0.8 MPG on local driving. Good braking, good news. Better gas mileage, good news.
I also have been noting for a long time a bit of instability in suspension effecting tracking unless on glass smooth road. Gave me the impression of someone not professional at using a Pogo stick.
Now 29,948 miles, when braking I feel the vehicle point left a small amount and return when brake is released. Brake drag? Possibly but it gets more complicated. The Pogo stick control has advanced to the point that it is worrisome for keeping it between the lines traveling with traffic. It gives me the impression of loose joints on arms, bad ball joints, or loose wheel bearings. Really hard to say if one cornered causing all of it or it is all four corners.
If that is not enough instability, add in that I'm now feeling slight play on input side of rack. (I think this vehicle uses rack and pinion) On older vehicles that had power steering strong enough to hold against road bump input, this likely would not be an issue. With this setup and not perfectly smooth road I have to constantly adjust to keep it between the lines and even get slower than prevailing traffic.
Has anyone run into these issues, individually or in combination? I'm not sure what is going on, only that it is becoming very disconcerting.
Recap: Car takes a slightly left heading when brake applied and returns when brake released. Brakes or bearings or suspension?
Car feels unstable as a small bump catches one tire and seems to pass that energy to the other corners in an unvertical fashion. Bushings, joints, or what?
Steering input has slight play allowing or adding to wandering on the road. Rack and pinion (too much play between rack and pinion gears), play in U-joints on steering shaft, or play in steering column shaft?
Someone please tell me they did not use that same crappy shaft tensioner they used on all the Taurus except first generation. Those vehicles had more holding by the power steering than this one so if they used the same junk it is little wonder it is failing by 30,000 miles. Those Taurus would fail for me around 60,000 miles. That is three of them. The first generation used spring steel clips and was still good at 150,000 miles. The rack and tie-rod ends had failed on it. All of the earlier generations of Taurus used the same design stabilizer bar links on front. And they all would fail early because of the poor quality of rubber boots. The boots would desintegrate allowing dirt and moisture in wearing the joints out.
Any input will be helpful.
It's not enough of a bother that I have gone back to the dealer, it seems much better now that the weather's warmer.
Although temp changes can affect some issues, example, ice forming adding unbalanced weight, a grease or lubricant that has been applied unequally from wheel to wheel and is stiffer when colder. Coefficient of expansion might cause some rare situations especially where there is a difference of material at a connection point or nexis. Example, ABCM, the electro-mechanical portion. If engineering did not properly design for temperature extremes including allowable tolerances of machining or fit, the housing being of one material, bored for pistons that actually controll the fluid/pressure to individual calipers, one of the pistons might be at the maximum allowable design tolerance and it binds when the temperature reaches a certain point. That would give uneven brake apply.
One thing for sure, with the addition of ABCM, that is anti-lock, traction control portion, stability, the brake system has become a lot more complex. Just because you feel a pull to the left when braking, you can no longer assume it is the caliper on the right not applying, but possibly a malfunction in the ABCM or its control module or a sensor.
Is it the same on all road surfaces? Make sure tire pressure is even, at least within 1/2 PSI of each other. Has a RFB, road force balance been done. They are really good at eliminating tire issues. But just rotating tires, because of existant wear patterns, can alter how the vehicle feels, even if there is not eye-ball detectable difference. If the problem moves after rotation, then it is likely tire/wheel related.
What temps? Why do you think EPS?
As with mine, if you are rolling straight and stays straight when releasing steering wheel, however applying brake veers toward oncoming traffic, it is braking related. But bad/loose part in suspension, a bad wheel bearing, could be shifting under the force of braking resulting in the veering to a side. Still, you say temp related so I'd chase that to the end.
It looks like they only touched toe settings. Camber and caster settings read the same, within tolerances, but definitely not centered on ranges.
Waiting on call back from Lincoln rep since they said they'd pass message, but I won't bet on it. (He bet align would take care of problem)
My improper brake bleed affecting centering of pistons/parts internal to ABCM is just a guess since I don't have actuall details of parts.
But, I started that brake pedal press as far as possible while stopped. Note, the first time the pedal slowly settled to limit like a leaking piston cup in a master cylinder would. I've done this about three times so far and after the first one I could tell a tremendous decrease of the vehicle trying to dart toward oncoming traffic. As of yesterday afternoon, it almost was gone. And so far, after each improvement it was not working back toward the worse end of situation. I will be passing that info back to those who did not see a problem.
Hydraulic brakes stated as a simple master cylinder and slave system. With front and rear slaves at some point mechanisms were introduced such as proportioning valves. An equal force to the rear brakes would result in rear brakes locking up creating a dangerous skid. A simple form with piston and springs allowed a maximum amount of fluid pushed to rear while more pressure/pedal could be applied to front. A better method employed by Mazda for a number of years before Ford adopted (earlier Taurus and others) was a pressure control mechanism that varied rear brakes according to weight on rear axle. It was at rear axle with an arm and link between body and axle. More weight on rear, the arm moved more allowing greater braking on rear. At a time maybe 60's vehicles started using what was dubbed safety brakes. Part of that was the dual in-line pistons of the master. If one failed the other took over usually with less braking. Variations on this occured with springs between the piston & cup of each portion. Some sent fluid from one piston to front, the other rear. Some vehicles crossed that relation with pressure from one piston going to one front brake and diagonal rear brake.
Eventually the standard seemed to be a dual master cylinder plus a separate diverter and proportioning valves. Some combined the proportioning and diverter into a single assembly. Part of diverter, along with sending fluid to each brake, included valving/pistons to prevent total failure such as a burst line. The sudden flow toward that slave would overcome the spring allowing piston to at least partially block total loss of pressure allowing other three brakes to provide some braking.
Air in system, bad news, it compresses. Sometimes small amounts of air get past rubber/neoprene sealing cups at pistons. Line routing can minimize migration away from problem area. Often that seal is damaged because of corrosion resulting from moisture in fluid. Brake fluid absorbs water from air, leave a container of it open and observe over weeks. Mercedes had as part of its scheduled maintenance a requirement to annually bleed brakes and every two years replace fluid. Non-corroding parts have helped eliminate that need, but water boils much lower than brake fluid.
A whole new era with anti-lock brakes, traction control, and electronic stability control. Most now look like a dual-master, four slaves, and the ABCM between the master and slaves. ABCM being controlled by computer that determines proper output from various sensors.
That ABCM reminds me of the valve body from an automatic transmission pre-electronic control. A nightmare of channeling to route fluid/pressure to the appropriate point, a check valve, springs and plungers, mechanical solenoids, pressure sensors, dividers, adders, multipliers, on and on. Electronics have removed much of that, but still the system needs to stay in balance for what might be non-computer control braking. The computer sits idle until it realizes a situation such as one wheel not turning or it has only one wheel turning.
Regardless of added computer safety factors, the objective is proper braking without the computer having to take over.
I can not speak specifically to the ABCM in this vehicle, but some earlier ones with the internal bores, pistons, and springs to provide proper fluid to each brake, had a piston and springs, even pistons with springs between, which generally controlled fluid for a pair of brakes, so at least two such bored cut into cavity of ABCM. The piston or pistons needed to be centered within the bore and may not have been self centering or doing so after an improper brake bleed or the burst line situation scenario mentioned earlier as part of divertor valve discussion.
Will a brake bleed fix my issue? Maybe, maybe not, but it seems a logical step in diagnosing. Much like a vehicle that does not track properly, if visual inspection shows nothing, you might rotate tires or alignment check.
I only point up all the extra detail to show how confused I am.
Bottom line, vehicle will dart toward left upon brake apply. I know this is dangerous and would like to get it resolved without tearing the vehicle apart, but to do nothing because they can not pinpoint the problem is wrong.
:mad:
Anyone have ideas of what the problem could be? What if the dealer messed my car up last week? How am I going to know if what they "repaired" caused irreparable damage to other systems in my car?
Based on information provided on a dealer Q&A from Ford, my belief is that the new fuel delivery module was sent without the fuel level sending unit, and the service department forgot to transfer the sending unit to the new part as directed in Q11 on the last page of the document here: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM439329/RCMN-13V227-59- 07.pdf.
Given that 390,783 cars were affected, I hope that Ford/Lincoln pays more attention to its other customers than what I received. I am very lucky that I wasn't speeding down the highway with my two children in tow when this happened.