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Lincoln MKS

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Comments

  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    image
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Don't count on it yet, however, Mulally is tearing the place down right now, and he may reinstitute such design research PDQ..... Hope he does.
  • Still makes me cringe. They put the pictures out there more than two years ahead of introduction (how insane is that?), show the auto press another bloated "me too" Japanese thing with vague Lincoln overtones (at best), and continue to (slowly) pursue its development, while dumping the proposed V8 and failing to do any modifications to make it a sleeker or in any way a more creative design.

    Ok, the interior is creative, but that likely won't make it to production...like the porky, copy-cat body will.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    According to MT it will be new Grand Prix (or G8). They probably will bring it here already rebadged from Australia.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    It could still get built here also they said. ;)

    Rocky
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Still they need to come up with unique pontiac design ( I would prefer retro stayle). Australian style will not fly here.

    But looks like Ford is playing catch up all over again. They still do not have rear wheel big car in Europe as used to be with Scorpio. Thats why Ford does not have strong image in Europe even though they make best cars.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    When do you guys think we will see more info come from Ford about this car ? What I mean is details. Does anyone have any new "facts" or "rumors" about the MKS ? If so please share them. :)

    Rocky
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The next opportunity will be the Detroit Auto Show in January. Supposedly they've changed the body slightly from the one shown earlier this year and announced the use of a 3.7L V6 in the base model and that the 4.4L Yamaha V8 has been dropped. Rumor is it will be replaced with a twin turbo 3.5L or 3.7L producing at least 350 hp.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Thank-you, you have me very excited. :) I really can't wait to see it pal. I hope it has a boost guage. :D Ford, could revive Lincoln, with this car. I love the styling. I like the gadgets, and want to hear that 500 Watt DVD-Audio surround sound stereo :shades:. I hope they pack it full of good (Gadgets) and price her at Acura RL level. If they do that I'm gonna have to seriously consider one as my next vehicle. I like the V-6 idea since it reduces weight and is better on fuel. I'd like to see a DOD system on the V-6 and a hybrid motor that adds performance, and efficiency. This is why I wish Ford would of joined GM, Chrysler, BMW, on the new 2-Stage hybrid.

    I guess I can't wait until January. ;)

    Rocky
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Rocky: Have you noticed the numbers on the HEMI DOD? Unless you are driving in a vacuum, on a completely flat road, so the DOD can shut off half the engine, you don't save any gas. If you are driving real world, not on a dyno, you save an average of about 1 mpg. One thing I will say, Hybrid is much more effective than DOD. DOD is a total fraud on the people, as it was when Cadillac tried it in 80.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    And we all know that hybrid EPA MPG numbers are totally unrealistic. It's not the hybrids fault - they just magnify the flaws in the EPA test methods.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    And we all know that hybrid EPA MPG numbers are totally unrealistic. It's not the hybrids fault - they just magnify the flaws in the EPA test methods.

    Exactly - well, I doubt if anybody on these boards doesn't know about my skepticism over Hybrid technology.....
  • Hybrid tech is improving. Hybrid combined with diesel holds great promise. BTW, diesel cars actually tend to get better highway mileage than their EPA numbers suggest.

    Still think it strange that Lincoln went to the trouble of increasing displacement from 3.5 to 3.7. Why not just do a twin turbo 3.5? With a 4.2 or 4.3 V8 coming along later, it seems odd they would waste the development time.

    Rocky, a twin turbo V6 is unlikely to weigh less than a newly designed nonturbo V8. nor should it get significantly better mileage. Nothing much is for free these days! Lighter weight, better transmissions, and improved computer chip technology all have more to do with it.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Still think it strange that Lincoln went to the trouble of increasing displacement from 3.5 to 3.7. Why not just do a twin turbo 3.5? With a 4.2 or 4.3 V8 coming along later, it seems odd they would waste the development time.

    Because it's easy to do a NA version of a Turbo engine, it should get better fuel economy and allows two different price points for the same vehicle just like the 5 series, E class, M35/M45, etc. Gotta keep up with the Joneses.

    And they want the 3.7L to differentiate it from the other Ford products using the 3.5L. Maybe the MKZ will also ge the 3.7L.

    It sounds like the new V8 is several years off and probably wouldn't be ready for the MKS intro.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Still think it strange that Lincoln went to the trouble of increasing displacement from 3.5 to 3.7.

    Likely an attempt to differentiate the car from the Mercury and Ford I would think. And that's good, IMO, even if it's somewhat small. Hopefully the hp will be boosted significantly in this engine.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    If it gets at least 350 hp I'll be happy enough. Sure I'd love to see 400+ hp like the next person. I actually prefer a TT V-6 over a naturally aspirated V-8. A lil' better fuel economy. I agree "nvbanker" that DOD, mostly is a fruad but 1-2 mpg helps and in my part of the country it's pretty flat for long stretches. I like I said would love a hybrid to help improve performance and fuel economy, just like Lexus does with it's hybrid units. it would be worth a extra couple of grand to me to check that box for a net gain. ;)

    Like I said in the Volvo S80 furum, maybe I meant to own another car instead of the S80, that I love so much ? Could it be the Lincoln MKS ???? :surprise: :) Time will tell, eh ?

    Rocky

    P.S. Have any of you saw the new MKZ commercial ? that car is sharp. Wished it had 300 hp. and I'd take a closer look at it. ;) Maybe Lincoln will let the SVT engineers get a hold of it. Could you imagine a GT500 engine it ? :surprise: WHOA !!!!!!!
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    if they deemed using the already existent V8 "too expensive," you can bet there won't be a twin turbo anything.

    I'm also a bit surprised if they truly did (or will) make the engine a 3.7 (since, again, this would take more money, IMHO, than pulling a proven V8 off the shelf), but its really not all that difficult and doesn't have to take much time or money to do it. An increase in displacement can be done any number of ways and most are relatively inexpensive.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Is the 4.4 Yamaha really proven ? What other car on the market uses this engine ? Is it made in Japan, qbrozen ?

    Rocky
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    what? you didn't read my post in the other forum? ;)

    they've been using it in the XC90 for a little while now. Its not like it has YEARS of data behind it, but its not fresh off the printing press, either. Besides, I personally have more confidence in ... oh... say ... Ford. ;)

    I'm not sure where its made, but for some reason I seem to remember reading that detail somewhere and it wasn't Japan. I could be wrong.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The "existant" V8 was the Yamaha 4.4L. The twin turbo 3.5L engine is $2K cheaper than the Yamaha V8 for a variety of reasons. More power, less money, more volume - can't see the downside.

    Making the 3.7 from a 3.5 is easy, relatively speaking. Hot rodders do it all the time (stroked and/or bored).
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    exactly. Or even just change the heads.

    Wait ... what twin turbo 3.5? I thought this was a theoretical situation? You mean they built one? I can't believe the V8 is $2k more. What does the 3.5 cost without the turbos? $5?

    p.s. i fixed the typo now. ya happy? i'm working on 4 hours sleep here, gimme a break, will ya? ;)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Insiders say they've been running a twin turbo 3.5L in a F150 for several months already and they've also confirmed that it's going into the MKS although maybe not the first year.

    The reason the V8 is $2K more is because it's built by Yamaha in limited quantities. The 3.5L base engine is built in house in what will be very high volume. Think of it like buying an Edelbrock crate motor vs. building one yourself.

    If Ford creates a smaller in house V8 in the 4.2-4.3L range it would be much closer to the TT 3.5L as far as cost goes.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    we'll see what actually comes out.

    Interestingly enough, when Lincoln had that poll on their website a while back about what you'd like in a car, I voted for a twin-turbo 6-cylinder. :)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I'm all for the Twin-Turbo V-6 over the pesky V-8. The TT
    V-6 appears to be more powerful and who doesn't want to hear a little turbo whine and watch a boost guage get buried as you plant your foot into the floor ? :D

    The MKS, will be the resurrection of the Lincoln, brand. It wil "Reach Higher" like their slogan. :shades:

    Rocky
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The MKS, will be the resurrection of the Lincoln, brand.

    I wouldn't go that far, Rocky, although I appreciate your enthusiasm. This vehicle will keep Lincoln in the game and competitive until they can come up with a flagship RWD platform.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    akirby,

    if they do it right like the concept they can't lose. The rumor is Lincoln is going to add more gadgets, which means it could have way more Gadgetology than a Acura RL. Lincoln, could very well have the greatest "Gadget Infested" vehicle in the world. So your darn right I'm excited. If Lincoln, can keep the price down on em' and offer all the goodies we will see a major resurrection at Lincoln, and a gain in market-share. Cadillac, has over priced the STS, and this one could undercut it by thousands of dollars.

    Rocky
  • The MKS could also bomb as well. For every MKS enthusiast like yourself, there is a whole crowd of yawners.

    So, great for you and Lincoln that you like it, but this too cautious approach is not going to resurrect Lincoln by itself. Especially with all the similarly styled and equipped models already on the market.

    The STS goes its own way, and you are right that it is too expensive for the market that is only now beginning to see American cars as competition for Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura. And now Hyundai is considering putting out a luxury marque. Alfa will return with better designed cars. The recent Paris show demonstrates may creative luxury rides being proposed which render the MKS genre even less noticable by the time of its belated release.

    I am cheering Lincoln's effort on nonetheless. But the MKS seems one of those dumbed down, too careful focus group efforts that was approved before the recent regime change and realization that Lincoln's self-assured decisionmakers have been killing their own company.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    The MKS could also bomb as well. For every MKS enthusiast like yourself, there is a whole crowd of yawners.

    gregg, not to pick a arguement I'd like to know what the yawners see wrong with the car ? Is it not racy enough like a BMW, or something ????

    So, great for you and Lincoln that you like it, but this too cautious approach is not going to resurrect Lincoln by itself. Especially with all the similarly styled and equipped models already on the market.

    What could they have done to avoid this ? They are supposedly going to have class leading features. The MKS to my eyes appears sleek and classy. :shades:

    The STS goes its own way, and you are right that it is too expensive for the market that is only now beginning to see American cars as competition for Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura. And now Hyundai is considering putting out a luxury marque. Alfa will return with better designed cars. The recent Paris show demonstrates may creative luxury rides being proposed which render the MKS genre even less noticable by the time of its belated release.

    Hyundai, a "real" luxury car ???? I'll have to see it to believe it. I'm still not impressed with "Hykia". Alfa, has no clout either. The rest of the brands you mention do. The Lincoln LS, was pretty sucessful and I expect the same for this one, especially if it has class leading features. ;)

    I am cheering Lincoln's effort on nonetheless. But the MKS seems one of those dumbed down, too careful focus group efforts that was approved before the recent regime change and realization that Lincoln's self-assured decisionmakers have been killing their own company.

    Well IMHO, they did a great job. If Ford "mans-up" and puts the proper powerplant with some horses under the hood this thing could become a huge sales success. :shades:

    I just can't wait for more photo's to drool over because she is very sexy beast :)

    Rocky
  • As you know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I cannot see sexy beast in the MKS. Actually, few sedans from anywhere in the world look "sexy" to me. I think the Mercedes CKS550 has real panache and stands out in a crowd. The Audi A8, the new Bentley sedan, the proposed Jaguar S-Type and XJ sedans for 2009 and 2010, the current Maserati sedan, and the 2007 Volvo S80 while not "sexy beasts" are pretty close. The Paris auto show had a whole spate of sedan concepts, many from brands we don't see here (Citoen, Alfa, Peugeot, Opel, etc.) which are creative standouts.
    BTW, I also think the Saturn Aura is a total standout for its class. Saturn will look better going forward, due to teh European influence.

    I am waiting to see what modifications have been made to the MKS, but as it was, it was porky, derivative and too, too careful...and without any dientifiable Lincoln DNA.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Okay, I was curiously wondering what you thought and why. ;) Yeah, to me both the MKZ and MKS girls are SEXY BEASTS :D :shades:

    Rocky

    P.S. So is the 07' S80
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The critics say it looks just like any other Japanese car and doesn't distinguish itself.

    What they would prefer is something more like the Continental concept car - something more American.

    image
    image

    I happen to think they can have it both ways - build the MKS to compete with the hi-tech Japanese models and build a RWD Continental with a big American V8 to appeal to the traditional American muscle car crowd. Of course the latter requires an all new RWD platform that doesn't yet exist, but I think that's where they need to go long term.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Now that would make a great Continental :surprise:

    That also is a SEXY BEAST ;):D

    Rocky

    P.S. Thanx for the pics akirby. Also gregg, the Maseratti sedan has always been a SEXY BEAST. ;)
  • I agree with akirby. Give the public both. Then Rocky can have his pudgy looking, but high tech front drive sedan with AWD added on--and with its unfashionably long overhangs (203" on a mere 114" wheelbase...sorry Rocky, couldn't resist), and some of us can have a car like the big wow factor Continental with rear drive, long wheelbase and tidy overhangs.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Yes, that is the best way to do it. I'll take the 350 hp Twin-Turbo V-6, and you guys can have you 4.0 Duratec V-6 rated at 201hp. with a option of a 5.4 300 hp. 3-legged mule. Sorry gregg, I couldn't resist :P

    I'll VIP at the country club, while y'all VIP at the Bingo halls. J/K :P

    Rocky
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    rocky, i saw your posts on the s80 forum. yamaha has been making incredible engines for ford, on and off, since 1989. what were you driving back then? i was driving an sho which had a yami with a 7200 redline, 5 speed manual.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I was driving my bike back then :P I was only a 4th grader, but do remember the SHO's. ;)

    Rocky
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    don't 'diss the yami's and i won't 'diss your schwinn. :)
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Of course I wouldn't buy a car with thje engine choices you offer. However, if the Conti has a 4.2 L V8 with 320 hp normally aspirated and 400+ turboed, then they have a customer. Heck, I'd even take the TT V6, as long as they put it in the Conti body's distinctive, modern, standout looks that remind no one of Japanese wannabe. I'd then do a contest any day to see who gets the most attention at the country club (if we have to go to that tired old venue). :P
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Well you will get alot of old men lookin' at your Conti, and I'll take the ladies. :P

    Rocky :shades:
  • You mean you'll take the girlie men? :P

    I also wager a bunch that women are less likely to look at a generic luxury Japanese sedan than one truly stands out. There is nothing on the road that looks like the Conti.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    They took a lot of sales from older women who had been driving Acuras. Don't think they stayed with Lincoln though. Most of the ones I knew, liked their Acura better.

    As for the Conti - I drove Continentals from 90 through 96. And I still love the style design, and that limosine roofline. I hate these Domed rooflines like the Passat and 500 have.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    LOL, well I will have to see what this new and "so-called" improved MKS, looks like. Gosh, I can't wait for the pics.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    nv, So do you dislike the style direction Lincoln, is taking or is it the MKS. The MKS, as you already probably know is going to get updated with a few more styling cues. I just hope they don't ruin it since its sexy in my eyes. If they can make it cooler, then yeah by all means do it. I just don't want to go from a classy Acura-ish design and end up with a Navigator type grill. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Hey! I LOVEd my Navigator grille, and mourn the loss of it in the Lincoln line. That's part of my discontent, but not all of it. Actually, I like the looks of the MKS, but I'm concerned it won't be large enough to carry the gravitas of the Flagship Lincoln. Plus, I'm not crazy about Lincoln slipping into the "near luxury" class of cars which is where Acura is, though Acura is a great car. It's never played with the big boys.

    A bunch of little Lincolns is not what will bring me back. I'll go to Cadillac first.
  • The MKS is not really little. It is bigger than the Cadillac CTS and STS and almost as big as the DTS. It is the same size as the Buick Lucerne. But it doesn't have a commanding presence because the wheelbase is too short for the length (203"). They could have tidied up the overhangs, but then the car would have been shorter.

    What's with Ford and its preoccupation with short wheelbases? Even the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis is only 114"...same as the LS, wich was a much tidier design (10" shorter than the MKS).
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    What's with Ford and its preoccupation with short wheelbases? Even the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis is only 114"...same as the LS, wich was a much tidier design (10" shorter than the MKS).

    Nothing turns around in your street like a Ford...... :blush:
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Well I can understand your concerns nv, but the Continental that will be here by the end of the decade should be plenty large enough for the most discriminating buyer. The Conti in the pics posted here sort of reminds me of a Maybach. :surprise:

    I think the MKS, could be a big hit for Ford IMHO.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Yeah I agree. The car however will be plenty roomy for most customers. ;) Ford, needs to expand it's platforms in it's large-car segment. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Nothing turns around in your street like a Ford

    Yeah they turn like a go-kart. :P

    Rocky
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Well one, I doubt that Continental will EVER be built, not by Ford, if there even is a Ford by the end of the decade - or next year. But a large, roomy sedan is a must for your showroom, and the Town Car is out of date, and no longer viable other than as a rental. Also, if the Continental did make it into production, IT would be an MKC or something.... what a pathetic way to try to emulate Cadillac.

    The MKS appears to be on the way to existence and I'll give it a good look. If it's comfortable like the S-80 and driving characteristics are similar, it has a real back seat and large doors, easy ingress and egress, and the interior is very nice as well as functional, I'd be very interested.
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